Dylan's Behavior during the massacre

I always thought the ketchup occurred JR year when Rocky was still there. Which I guess could have been Jan. I think it has always just been accepted that the Jan incident was the van incident.

I think they compiled the death times based on witness accounts and body temps. We know they didn't get to the bodies until many hours later but I would ASSume that there would still be a tiny amount of heat left. I have no idea about that.

Reading Patti's testimony something seems off time wise. Not that she lied but something just seems off. She talks about looking at her watch a few times or hearing the bells going off to mark different hours....but somehow she puts the end of the shooting much later than what it would seem.

I am starting to completely doubt the timeline that we have. Now that other things are starting to pop out such as we can see them leaving the bombs on tape at a new time.... what else will come out?

Lizpuff wrote:

.I am starting to completely doubt the timeline that we have.  Now that other things are starting to pop out such as we can see them leaving the bombs on tape at a new time.... what else will come out?

The time line on a lot of things are slightly off in general. Based on witness reports, the library 911, etc. The medical examiner pretty much did a guesstimate on times of death on all the victims. Given the bodies were indeed left for so long would have a big impact on that.

It is possible that Patti was so scared and distraught that she didn't note the time right. We all know that the witness testimonies are full of inconsistencies, due to all the chaos and confusion.

The new footage of the bombs being taken in does throw the current time line off.  I also wonder what else can be found if we all just keep digging.

I think there's also a discrepancy of when Erics dad called 911, it always struck me as being too late in the day. The police first showed up at Eric's then a couple hours later Dylan's?

The ketchup incident did happen Junior year because I do believe Sue Klebold talks about it in "Pathway to Suicide" in AMR and it was about Dylan's junior year.

Witness statements are known to not be the most accurate, plus you're in the midst of something terrifying. It was probably hard to hear the class bells over the fire alarms but some people did..

I am now questioning the time Brooks saw Eric. Didn't the boys go to Clement Park, gear up then come back after planting the bombs? Or am misremembering and maybe Brooks saw Eric earlier?

I do feel that the deaths of the boys were around noon though. Just because we do not see them on the tapes anymore after their last trip up the stairs. Who knows how much time they spent upstairs doing god knows what though.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I think there's also a discrepancy of when Erics dad called 911, it always struck me as being too late in the day. The police first showed up at Eric's then a couple hours later Dylan's?

The ketchup incident did happen Junior year because I do believe Sue Klebold talks about it in "Pathway to Suicide" in AMR and it was about Dylan's junior year.

Witness statements are known to not be the most accurate, plus you're in the midst of something terrifying. It was probably hard to hear the class bells over the fire alarms but some people did..

I am now questioning the time Brooks saw Eric. Didn't the boys go to Clement Park, gear up then come back after planting the bombs? Or am misremembering and maybe Brooks saw Eric earlier?

The way it seems is that Eric and Dylan dropped off the bombs, went to the park, came back and that was when Brooks saw Eric. He saw him in the JR lot which was where his car was left. Then after Brooks left Eric he said he could hear the commotion just moments later.

Did witnesses note the time they saw Eric and Dylan wandering the halls after the library massacre?

Thanks Lizpuff! Eric would have been wearing his gear then I assume. I was trying to remember what Brooks said about his appearance and it was that he wasn't wearing his hat.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Did witnesses note the time they saw Eric and Dylan wandering the halls after the library massacre?

Thanks Lizpuff! Eric would have been wearing his gear then I assume. I was trying to remember what Brooks said about his appearance and it was that he wasn't wearing his hat.

I cannot remember specifics. I think maybe just maybe there were some students in the science wing that were watching a clock but everything is blending together.

The science wing was the area where Eric and Dylan tried to start an explosion with the gas and looked into classrooms.

You guys are great. Thanks for the replies.

I think any young girl would be mortified to get that love letter. I see that 'if you love me I won't kill myself' as emotional abuse and the rest of it was waaaay too heavy. You'd expect a cute high school love note to say 'I think you're cute, will you go to the movies with me?" not "I'm a monster and a convict but if you love me i won't kill myself and everyone around me"

Cemetery Jones wrote:

You guys are great. Thanks for the replies.

I think any young girl would be mortified to get that love letter. I see that 'if you love me I won't kill myself' as emotional abuse and the rest of it was waaaay too heavy. You'd expect a cute high school love note to say 'I think you're cute, will you go to the movies with me?" not "I'm a monster and a convict but if you love me i won't kill myself and everyone around me"

I agree! Most girls would have ran screaming. Although I have to say that possibly a few would have gotten off on the fact that he was so infatuated with them.

They likely wouldn't have been interested in a relationship with Dylan, but would have liked the effect they had on him.

Thanks Lizpuff!

As far as the letter, Dylan in general was a lot more sophisticated in his writing and words than most boys his age, I think if he went more with secret admirer vibe and not the "I'm a convict who will die soon" some girls would have liked that. Was 17 year old me one who would like it , perhaps?

Do you think he was only talking about the van incident and getting expelled for hacking? Or was he hinting the fact that he was going to commit a massacre?

I am so glad he did not send that letter. Even if the girl did decide to go out with him or whatever he was expecting a girl to save him. You cannot expect that out of a teenager. He would likely have been disappointed and left worse off.

I agree. That's a burden to put on anyone.

Dylan's feelings were fleeting too. He seemed to get crushes on girls easily. He was in love with love. I agree too that he would have fared worse if he got a girlfriend and she didn't live up to his fantasy. God forbid if he got laid and it didn't measure up...

People talk about how Eric wanted to be analyzed i wonder if Dylan would get a kick out of us analyzing hi his mind and motivations like he did with Charles Manson.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I agree. That's a burden to put on anyone.

Dylan's feelings were fleeting too. He seemed to get crushes on girls easily. He was in love with love. I agree too that he would have fared worse if he got a girlfriend and she didn't live up to his fantasy.

I honestly don't think any girl would have lived up to his expectations/fantasy. Dylan had a girl/girls he likely had very little to no contact with trumped up in his mind to be infallible, and so high up on a pedal stool that there was just no way that it could have went well.

Hell she could have sneezed wrong and it would have shattered his perfect vision of her.

Agreed.

He was also very sensitive. Devon said Dylan got mad at her and it was her fault, he ignored her for a week. Not knowing what was said, I don't know how bad it was, but it may not have been anything Devon thought was wrong, and he could have taken it to heart.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Agreed.

He was also very sensitive. Devon said Dylan got mad at her and it was her fault, he ignored her for a week. Not knowing what was said, I don't know how bad it was, but it may not have been anything Devon thought was wrong, and he could have taken it to heart.

Who knows. As you said, Dylan was super sensitive. It could have been anything. Also Devon was more level headed then I am. I would have been "Nope your tall, lanky ass is NOT going to ignore me!"  

My husband gets pissed at the fact that I refuse to let things go, I mean if we have a problem then it gets solved ASAP, I dont have time for that Nah we will just ignore it or not deal with it right now crap. He tells me I am overly aggressive for my small size.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Thanks! Was it the first time they entered the library or the second time?

First time.

I am just so glad neither of them blamed what they did on any female in particular for denying them. Imagine living the rest of your life with that guilt when you did nothing wrong.

Most names in the evidence are redacted anyway, but imagine one of them during the massacre saying something like "you can thank (female) for denying me"

Szabo wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Thanks! Was it the first time they entered the library or the second time?

First time.

Thanks!

Littlelo wrote:

I am just so glad neither of them blamed what they did on any female in particular for denying them. Imagine living the rest of your life with that guilt when you did nothing wrong.

Most names in the evidence are redacted anyway, but imagine one of them during the massacre saying something like "you can thank (female) for denying me"

I think it likely that a few of the girls on Eric's shit list, or girls that turned him down/stopped dating him did have strange feelings maybe even guilt after Columbine.

Littlelo wrote:

I am just so glad neither of them blamed what they did on any female in particular for denying them. Imagine living the rest of your life with that guilt when you did nothing wrong.

Most names in the evidence are redacted anyway, but imagine one of them during the massacre saying something like "you can thank (female) for denying me"

That would have been devastating!!

Eric could have easily done that! Wasn't there a girl in class around the time that humiliated him? Honestly though if you don't want to go to prom with someone just say no you don't have to be mean.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

I am just so glad neither of them blamed what they did on any female in particular for denying them. Imagine living the rest of your life with that guilt when you did nothing wrong.

Most names in the evidence are redacted anyway, but imagine one of them during the massacre saying something like "you can thank (female) for denying me"

I think it likely that a few of the girls on Eric's shit list, or girls that turned him down/stopped dating him did have strange feelings maybe even guilt after Columbine.

Very true. I'm sure at that age it would be tough not to put some guilt or blame on yourself. Hopefully by now, time has made them realize E&D's issues ran much deeper than high school crushes.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I could definitely see Eric doing it over Dylan. Eric didn't mind admitting he was bullied and denied by girls. Dylan kept it more to himself.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Agreed.

He was also very sensitive. Devon said Dylan got mad at her and it was her fault, he ignored her for a week. Not knowing what was said, I don't know how bad it was, but it may not have been anything Devon thought was wrong, and he could have taken it to heart.

Who knows. As you said, Dylan was super sensitive. It could have been anything. Also Devon was more level headed then I am. I would have been "Nope your tall, lanky ass is NOT going to ignore me!"  

My husband gets pissed at the fact that I refuse to let things go, I mean if we have a problem then it gets solved ASAP, I dont have time for that Nah we will just ignore it or not deal with it right now crap. He tells me I am overly aggressive for my small size.

I had a friend in college who for a good month or 2 ignored me and was super mean when I tried to talk to him. I saw him a year after graduation and we were fine. To this day I haven't a clue what that was about.

If I let something fester for too long I'm just going to stop liking the person. So I like to deal with things right away.

I wonder if it had anything to do with Eric threatening Devon? Nothing else was really said about that. I'm sure she wasn't thrilled at what Dylan wrote about her in his journal though, but it was before they became friends.

Littlelo wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I could definitely see Eric doing it over Dylan. Eric didn't mind admitting he was bullied and denied by girls. Dylan kept it more to himself.

Yea Dylan wanted to be a cool cucumber that could handle anything and all on his own.

Screamingophelia wrote:

That would have been devastating!!

Eric could have easily done that! Wasn't there a girl in class around the time that humiliated him? Honestly  though if you don't want to go to prom with someone just say no you don't have to be mean.

Sabrina Cooley rejected Eric after he asked her to prom in front of a whole class of people supposedly humiliating him.

I agree. If you get asked to prom you shouldn't be a bitch about it. Just politely decline. No need to cut someone down.

I asked a boy to prom and he said no I was too ugly

Asking someone to prom in front of everyone takes balls.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I asked a boy to prom and he said no I was too ugly

Asking someone to prom in front of everyone takes balls.

That's awful! I hoped you realized that he didn't deserve your time instantly after he said that. Guys can be just as cruel as girls in many ways.

I do now. I went with a friend of my brothers and it was nice.

I know I mentioned this before but I don't have any in between you either think I'm gorgeous or a drowned rat lol. I suffer from having Invisalign and a prominent nose.

Eric named several girls by name in the basement tapes. Not that anyone of them saw them or knew which name was mentioned but think if that ever were released.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I know I mentioned this before but I don't have any in between you either think I'm gorgeous or a drowned rat lol. I suffer from having Invisalign and a prominent nose.

We all have issues with certain aspects of our appearance. I think my eyes are an ugly color, they can't decide if they want to be blue or gray, so they bounce back and forth between the two. I also suffer from having (in my opinion) a huge ass! Yet my husband loves it.

My husband thinks he is the ugliest thing that was ever spawned.  I on the other hand think he is sexy as F*ck! I keep telling him that if I thought he was hideous then I wouldn't have had children with him, that I would never have taken the risk of passing his ugliness on to our kids.! Well I may be a bit biased, but my kids are beautiful with a capital B. My daughter is basicly me in baby form, and my son is his dads mini me. Their baby pictures are hard to tell apart other then the different style of clothes!  

Screamingophelia wrote:

I asked a boy to prom and he said no I was too ugly

Asking someone to prom in front of everyone takes balls.

i was going to ask a girl out, got to scared

-warrior wrote:

i was going to ask a girl out, got to scared

Do it! All she can do is say no. An if she does then let that shit roll off your back and look elsewhere.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

-warrior wrote:

i was going to ask a girl out, got to scared

Do it! All she can do is say no. An if she does then let that shit roll off your back and look elsewhere.

i got scared because maybe she thinks im weird for glancing at her sometimes in the hall.ugh

-warrior wrote:

i got scared because maybe she thinks im weird for glancing at her sometimes in the hall.ugh[/quote]

Were you like giving her stalker-ish stares or just merely looking in her direction?

If the BT are leaked or released are we going to be let down... watching two boys complaining about girls then "oh here are our guns!" There are a few parts I really want to see though. Still.

It's nice when a guy doesn't realize how attractive he is. Not low self esteem...  but I dated a handsome man ones who knew he was handsome and he was in fact a really big jerk.

Glancing isn't a big deal staring is uncomfortable if she's nice then she'll appreciate it. Even if she says no at least yuh tried.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

i got scared because maybe she thinks im weird for glancing at her sometimes in the hall.ugh

Were you like giving her stalker-ish stares or just merely looking in her direction?[/quote]

i walk one way and she walks the other way, i had a scheduled change so i pass her more..and im tall so i always look forward and just look around. i dont pick her out and follow her

-warrior wrote:

i walk one way and she walks the other way, i had a scheduled change so i pass her more..and im tall so i always look forward and just look around. i dont pick her out and follow her

Hmm. Has she made eye contact with you?

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

-warrior wrote:

i walk one way and she walks the other way, i had a scheduled change so i pass her more..and im tall so i always look forward and just look around. i dont pick her out and follow her

Hmm. Has she made eye contact with you?

i think maybe, weve exchanged glances.

Screamingophelia wrote:

If the BT are leaked or released are we going to be let down... watching two boys complaining about girls then "oh here are our guns!" There are a few parts I really want to see though. Still.

It's nice when a guy doesn't realize how attractive he is. Not low self esteem...  but I dated a handsome man ones who knew he was handsome and he was in fact a really big jerk.

Glancing isn't a big deal staring is uncomfortable  if she's nice then she'll appreciate it. Even if she says no at least yuh tried.

It is possible that the basement tapes might be a small let down. BUT I still want to see them nonetheless.

I agree! I could never be with a man who was full of himself. I like confidence in a guy, but not cockiness.

-warrior wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

-warrior wrote:

i walk one way and she walks the other way, i had a scheduled change so i pass her more..and im tall so i always look forward and just look around. i dont pick her out and follow her

Hmm. Has she made eye contact with you?

i think maybe, weve exchanged glances.

Well next time this happens, simply smile at her. Then gauge her reaction. IF she smiles back, then continue giving her random smiles, work in a hand wave or two. Next step. Say Hi.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

-warrior wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

-warrior wrote:

i walk one way and she walks the other way, i had a scheduled change so i pass her more..and im tall so i always look forward and just look around. i dont pick her out and follow her

Hmm. Has she made eye contact with you?

i think maybe, weve exchanged glances.

Well next time this happens, simply smile at her. Then gauge her reaction. IF she smiles back, then continue giving her random smiles,  work in a hand wave or two. Next step. Say Hi.

hmm illsee tomorrow

-warrior wrote:

hmm illsee tomorrow

Good Luck!

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

With all the noise in the library it would have been hard to determine who was saying/yelling anything. The witness reports are not very reliable for that very reason. But I would still love to hear the full call.

I'm pretty sure it was true. Yes its true that the whole tape was not released but when listening to part of it its clear Dylan is the most vocal one

JMAN0723 wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

With all the noise in the library it would have been hard to determine who was saying/yelling anything. The witness reports are not very reliable for that very reason. But I would still love to hear the full call.

 I'm pretty sure it was true.  Yes its true that the whole tape was not released but when listening to  part of it its clear Dylan is the most vocal one

True. Dylan was more vocal, but remember even Eric said "Dylan can yell real good!" Sorry, I had to.

Dylan's height, how loud he was and his gun must have made him terrifying.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Dylan's height, how loud he was and his gun must have made him terrifying.

whos been the tallest mass shooter ever?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Who was the shortest mass shooter ever?

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Who was the shortest mass shooter ever?

Andrew Golden most likely

Dylan may be in the running for tallest. Anders Breivik was 6'0. Randy Stair was tall and lanky, but I doubt he was over 6'3. James Holmes is 5'11.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I'm not a doctor but after even reading his journals I wouldn't be surprised if he had a break from reality or if there was more going on than just depression. Also St. Johns Wort can cause some sort of psychosis in rare cases.

He didn't have a break from reality and wasn't psychotic. If so...it certainly didn't manifest itself the day of the shooting.

They were both on an adrenaline high. It didn't last long. It was helter skelter....until the adrenaline wore off.

Quote :

I find it even more telling after the library the 2 of them wandered around the school without shooting anyone. Looked into windows of classrooms but that's about it.

The high was over. They're back to reality...and they don't like what they see. They(and their victims) found out the hard way that it's not a level in Doom or Quake. They wanted to kill hundreds of students....and didn't come close even though they could've easily and quickly increased the death toll.

They had no real plan. The way they stop killing abruptly and basically wonder around aimlessly proves this. When it was all talk and in the realm of fantasy, sky's the limit. When it was time to walk the walk, it's not what they expected. IMO the moment they stopped shooting at kids is the moment they start having regret that they went through with it. They have a problem though...they've already passed the point of no return.

I see some saying that the cops not bursting into the school might have played a role. I disagree. If anything, that should've emboldened them. It gives them more time to up the death toll. They simply didn't care at that point.

Quote :

I would have loved to have known what was on that damn hard drive.

Me too. There are many angles to this story IMO yet to be revealed.

Littlelo wrote:

Since this thread is about Dylan's behavior on 4-20-99, does anyone else find it odd that he reportedly grabbed and tried to pull Isaiah out from under the table? I ask that because I can't think of another incident that day where they grabbed or touched their victims in any way. I always wondered about that.

Another reason I would like to see all the case files and tapes one day.

While the massacre appears random and helter skelter on the surface(and it is basically), I have always felt two of the victims were intentional targets....Rachel and Isaiah. Rachel was shot outside first. They took a huge risk targeting her. All of their plans could've blown up in their faces by doing this. Cops could be close by, all the students could run from the school, etc. They must have felt like it was worth the risk. I'd like to know why. For the record, I don't buy the myth that surrounds Rachel. It's a false narrative. I'd like to see the real narrative someday.

I don't believe either of them were racist but I've wondered if they had prior history of some sort with him. Like you said, he was treated differently than other victims. It feels personal.

Quote :

I am starting to completely doubt the timeline that we have.

I always doubted it. The official story/timeline has always been full of holes.