Dylan's Behavior during the massacre

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

-warrior wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

-warrior wrote:

i walk one way and she walks the other way, i had a scheduled change so i pass her more..and im tall so i always look forward and just look around. i dont pick her out and follow her

Hmm. Has she made eye contact with you?

i think maybe, weve exchanged glances.

Well next time this happens, simply smile at her. Then gauge her reaction. IF she smiles back, then continue giving her random smiles,  work in a hand wave or two. Next step. Say Hi.

hmm illsee tomorrow

-warrior wrote:

hmm illsee tomorrow

Good Luck!

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

With all the noise in the library it would have been hard to determine who was saying/yelling anything. The witness reports are not very reliable for that very reason. But I would still love to hear the full call.

I'm pretty sure it was true. Yes its true that the whole tape was not released but when listening to part of it its clear Dylan is the most vocal one

JMAN0723 wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

With all the noise in the library it would have been hard to determine who was saying/yelling anything. The witness reports are not very reliable for that very reason. But I would still love to hear the full call.

 I'm pretty sure it was true.  Yes its true that the whole tape was not released but when listening to  part of it its clear Dylan is the most vocal one

True. Dylan was more vocal, but remember even Eric said "Dylan can yell real good!" Sorry, I had to.

Dylan's height, how loud he was and his gun must have made him terrifying.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Dylan's height, how loud he was and his gun must have made him terrifying.

whos been the tallest mass shooter ever?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Who was the shortest mass shooter ever?

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Who was the shortest mass shooter ever?

Andrew Golden most likely

Dylan may be in the running for tallest. Anders Breivik was 6'0. Randy Stair was tall and lanky, but I doubt he was over 6'3. James Holmes is 5'11.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I'm not a doctor but after even reading his journals I wouldn't be surprised if he had a break from reality or if there was more going on than just depression. Also St. Johns Wort can cause some sort of psychosis in rare cases.

He didn't have a break from reality and wasn't psychotic. If so...it certainly didn't manifest itself the day of the shooting.

They were both on an adrenaline high. It didn't last long. It was helter skelter....until the adrenaline wore off.

Quote :

I find it even more telling after the library the 2 of them wandered around the school without shooting anyone. Looked into windows of classrooms but that's about it.

The high was over. They're back to reality...and they don't like what they see. They(and their victims) found out the hard way that it's not a level in Doom or Quake. They wanted to kill hundreds of students....and didn't come close even though they could've easily and quickly increased the death toll.

They had no real plan. The way they stop killing abruptly and basically wonder around aimlessly proves this. When it was all talk and in the realm of fantasy, sky's the limit. When it was time to walk the walk, it's not what they expected. IMO the moment they stopped shooting at kids is the moment they start having regret that they went through with it. They have a problem though...they've already passed the point of no return.

I see some saying that the cops not bursting into the school might have played a role. I disagree. If anything, that should've emboldened them. It gives them more time to up the death toll. They simply didn't care at that point.

Quote :

I would have loved to have known what was on that damn hard drive.

Me too. There are many angles to this story IMO yet to be revealed.

Littlelo wrote:

Since this thread is about Dylan's behavior on 4-20-99, does anyone else find it odd that he reportedly grabbed and tried to pull Isaiah out from under the table? I ask that because I can't think of another incident that day where they grabbed or touched their victims in any way. I always wondered about that.

Another reason I would like to see all the case files and tapes one day.

While the massacre appears random and helter skelter on the surface(and it is basically), I have always felt two of the victims were intentional targets....Rachel and Isaiah. Rachel was shot outside first. They took a huge risk targeting her. All of their plans could've blown up in their faces by doing this. Cops could be close by, all the students could run from the school, etc. They must have felt like it was worth the risk. I'd like to know why. For the record, I don't buy the myth that surrounds Rachel. It's a false narrative. I'd like to see the real narrative someday.

I don't believe either of them were racist but I've wondered if they had prior history of some sort with him. Like you said, he was treated differently than other victims. It feels personal.

Quote :

I am starting to completely doubt the timeline that we have.

I always doubted it. The official story/timeline has always been full of holes.

I'm wondering if they did have an issue with Isaiah if we would ever find out. Hear me out, say he was a bully to them or a trouble maker to them and he died, it fits into the "they sought revenge against a bully" narrative, making E&D sympathizers seem more in the right.

No one deserved to die that day of course, but also you don't speak ill of those who died, saying "so and so who died was one of the kids who threw ketchup at Dylan" doesn't justify it of course but what is the point of knowing that information? Would it change peoples perceptions?

I like your thoughts Tracy. I agree with them!

A lot of their bullies were younger than them, actually. Eric specifically said people should have treated him "more like a senior". I don't think we will ever know about Isaiah though.

And I don't think it's wrong to ask those questions. No one on here condones ANY of the deaths, even if we ever could confirm a victim had bullied E&D. Nothing warrants what they did.

Tracy wrote:

While the massacre appears random and helter skelter on the surface(and it is basically), I have always felt two of the victims were intentional targets....Rachel and Isaiah. Rachel was shot outside first. They took a huge risk targeting her. All of their plans could've blown up in their faces by doing this. Cops could be close by, all the students could run from the school, etc. They must have felt like it was worth the risk. I'd like to know why. For the record, I don't buy the myth that surrounds Rachel. It's a false narrative. I'd like to see the real narrative someday.

This is the only part of your post that I can't agree with 100%. Just my opinion, but the shooting had to start with someone and Richard Castaldo was also right there. They shot at a lot of kids outside before entering the school, most were running from them already. I believe they probably knew Rachel, but I don't know if they really targeted her specifically. Who knows.

Isaiah is harder for me to dismiss as random. I do think, based on the racial slurs, he was at least much more likely to be a victim because he was black.

Dylan's behavior is really easy to understand that day.
Dylan is often confused with a modern day "emo kid". Those kids don't want to die, they cut themselves and write depressing things because they just want attention, they are scared of death and think of dying as tragic. Dylan was a true depressed person, he saw death as a positive thing, a release. His depression was like pain and death was the freedom. Dylan truly wanted to die and didn't let everyone, not even his family know how he was feeling as any small detail would lead to him getting help, which would prevent him getting his release. He was happy and having a good time that day because finally death was coming and it he was probably very excited about it. He wasn't your modern day attention seeking emo kid.

Littlelo wrote:

A lot of their bullies were younger than them, actually. Eric specifically said people should have treated him "more like a senior". I don't think we will ever know about Isaiah though.

And I don't think it's wrong to ask those questions. No one on here condones ANY of the deaths, even if we ever could confirm a victim had bullied E&D. Nothing warrants what they did.

Dylan's dad was bemused that underclassmen could bother his 6 feet 4 inch son. It makes me also wonder whose locker he was defacing.

I had some freshman girls bully me when I was a senior. I finally got fed up, told them off and I got in trouble.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Very well said. I don't think some people realize how depressed he actually was, because his journal and writings does look like it could be from a kid who just wants attention. The difference is, he meant everything he said about death and depression.

I am surprised there weren't any suicide attempts before with Dylan.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I am surprised there weren't any suicide attempts before with Dylan.

That seemed weird to me as well. I have always wondered WHY he had to have something as big as NBK to be able to go through with his own suicide.

He did mention he wasn't sure if he would make it until April. Do you think he was holding on for Eric, since he had agreed to die with him?

In his day planner he wrote "Death (afraid?)". Maybe he felt better knowing Eric would be with him.

Also to follow up- I'm sure NBK was the one thing both E&D felt they had control over, and looked at it as an accomplishment. That may have been another reason Dylan held out until 4/20

Littlelo wrote:

He did mention he wasn't sure if he would make it until April. Do you think he was holding on for Eric, since he had agreed to die with him?

In his day planner he wrote "Death (afraid?)". Maybe he felt better knowing Eric would be with him.

I'm almost certain Eric had written that about hoping he could make it until April.

From Eric's journal.

"Well folks, today was a very important day in the history of R. Today along with Vodka and someone else who I wont name, we went downtown and purchased the following; a double barrel 12ga. shotgun, a pump action 12ga. shotgun, a 9mm carbine, 250 9mm rounds, 15 12ga slugs, 40 shotgun shells, 2 switch blade knives, and total of 4 - 10 round clips for the carbine. we....... have.... GUNS! we fucking got em you sons of bitches! HA! HAHAHA! neener! Booga Booga. heh. its all over now. this capped it off, the point of no return. I have my carbine, shotgun, ammo and knife all in my trunk tonight and theyll there till tomorrow... after school you know its really a shame. I had a lot of fun at that gun show, I would have loved it if you were there dad. we would done some major bonding. would have been great. oh well. but, alas, I fucked up and told [censored] about my "flask". that really disappoints me. [censored] I know you thought it was good for me... in the long run and all that shit, smart of you to give me a such big raise and then rat me out, you figure it was supposed to cancel each other? god damn flask, that just fucked me over big time. now you all will be on my ass even more than before about being on track. I'll get around it though, If have to cheat and lie to everyone then thats fine. THIS is what I am motivated for, THIS is my goal. THIS is what I want to do with my life! you know whats weird, I dont feel like a punching through a door because of the flask deal, probly cause I am fucking armed now. I feel more confident, stronger, and more Godlike. I have confidence in my ability to dese(cei)ve people. hopefully Ill make it to April, but that might not happen. Ug, Its been a busy weekend, I need to sleep, I'll continue tomorrow.
11/22/98"

Thanks! I got them mixed up. The only thing Dylan writes that is similar is: "So I wait 5 more days. 5 more days. 5 eternities." Almost like he was so tired of living and so ready to be done.

Littlelo wrote:

Thanks! I got them mixed up. The only thing Dylan writes that is similar is: "So I wait 5 more days. 5 more days. 5 eternities." Almost like he was so tired of living and so ready to be done.

This stuff is easy to get confused sometimes. If I hadn't just been reading through Eric's journal at the present moment I wouldn't have known for sure.

But Dylan's entry just makes me question why he didn't just do it even more. Why wait? If he was in so much pain and wanted to die to end it, why did he wait? Especially since he had been suicidal for years.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

hopefully Ill make it to April, but that might not happen. Ug, Its been a busy weekend, I need to sleep, I'll continue tomorrow.
11/22/98"

why did they choose April?

My guess is it was right before graduation and the weather was finally getting nice enough for them to test and detonate their devices.

Anyone else know more?

I know a lot of people say the date was chosen because of Eric's fascination with Hitler. BUT that has never been 100% proven.

Some say that the actual date was April 19th but had to be pushed back due to Mark Manes forgetting to buy that last box of ammo.

I have even heard a few who said that Eric picked 4/20 because that was when KMFDM would drop their Adios Album. But its all just speculation, no one really knows for sure why 4/20 was picked.

In either the BT Transcripts or Eric's journal...there is a mention of doing it "before or after prom"

I think the 19th is speculated about too because Eric writes "I have exactly 5 1/4 days left on earth' or something like that, he gets very specific.

I'm not sure if Eric saw his death as the logical end to NBK where as Dylan REALLY wanted to die. He even talks about if they escape they would go to Mexico or an island and live out their days there.

Some speculate that part of the entry was about Eric and the rest was about Dylan's "love" that he would find in the afterlife.

I know it wasn't about KMFDM's album Adios; only because Eric mentions how ironic it is after they have already picked the day.