When E&D returned to the library..

Do you think they were surprised to find the students had fled, or do you think by that point they didn't care anymore, and were simply ready to die? I also wonder if the students hadn't left, whether E&D would've carried out one last shooting.

Szabo wrote:

Do you think they were surprised to find the students had fled, or do you think by that point they didn't care anymore, and were simply ready to die? I also wonder if the students hadn't left, whether E&D would've carried out one last shooting.

That is an interesting question that most who research Columbine has pondered.

I don't think they were necessarily surprised that they came back to an almost empty Library. I do however think they were ready to end it. But who knows if they would have continued the attack if the kids hadn't fled.

They would of gotten a kick out of scaring people with there bloody suicides especially Eric with blowing the roof off his head, so i guess they would be fine with just ending there lives right regardless if there were people there or not.

The only 2 people who were in there to see it were Lisa and Patrick?

The suicide did happen closer to patrick.

I'm not sure they would've continued the attack even if people were still there. They passed up opportunities to shoot people earlier, so I doubt they'd go at it again if no-one had fled.

I thought Patrick crawled out before they came back?

watch the CCTV footage in the cafeteria, there is at least 4 kids at the back of the room hiding under a tables and Eric and Dylan near the staircase can clearly see them, but they are not interested in them only the bombs. They watch the kids run out of the side doors without care.

23september wrote:

I thought Patrick crawled out before they came back?

I'm trying to remember when he crawled out the window. I remember seeing it live and it was 2 hours ahead, when I got out of school so it would have been 1pm mountain time.

Patrick also said he heard a male coughing for about 5 minutes, Dylan drowned in his own blood, so most assume he was listening to Dylan.

23september wrote:

I thought Patrick crawled out before they came back?

E&D had already committed suicide. It took Patrick a while before he was able to get himself to that window.

Patrick was in the library when they committed suicide.

Do you think they knew there were still two survivors? I honestly think if they came back and not everyone had evacuated, they would have just killed themselves in front of them. If they wanted to kill more people they could have.

Did they exchange more gunfire with police before their suicides? Would that then be the reason they went back?

Littlelo wrote:

Patrick was in the library when they committed suicide.

Do you think they knew there were still two survivors? I honestly think if they came back and not everyone had evacuated, they would have just killed themselves in front of them. If they wanted to kill more people they could have.

Did they exchange more gunfire with police before their suicides? Would that then be the reason they went back?

I agree I think they were just done.

From what I understand when they went back and exchanged gunfire. Then Eric killed himself. Dylan supposedly took off his jewelry? (Not sure if that's been verified) lit a Molotov cocktail and shot himself. His head landed on Eric's leg I think?

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Patrick was in the library when they committed suicide.

Do you think they knew there were still two survivors? I honestly think if they came back and not everyone had evacuated, they would have just killed themselves in front of them. If they wanted to kill more people they could have.

Did they exchange more gunfire with police before their suicides? Would that then be the reason they went back?

I agree I think they were just done.

From what I understand when they went back and exchanged gunfire. Then Eric killed himself. Dylan supposedly took off his jewelry? (Not sure if that's been verified) lit a Molotov cocktail and shot himself. His head landed on Eric's leg I think?

I would pay good money to have seen pictures of the crime scene BEFORE anything was moved, before they were checked for bombs etc.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Patrick was in the library when they committed suicide.

Do you think they knew there were still two survivors? I honestly think if they came back and not everyone had evacuated, they would have just killed themselves in front of them. If they wanted to kill more people they could have.

Did they exchange more gunfire with police before their suicides? Would that then be the reason they went back?

I agree I think they were just done.

From what I understand when they went back and exchanged gunfire. Then Eric killed himself. Dylan supposedly took off his jewelry? (Not sure if that's been verified) lit a Molotov cocktail and shot himself. His head landed on Eric's leg I think?

I would pay good money to have seen pictures of the crime scene BEFORE anything was moved, before they were checked for bombs etc.  

Sameeeee. Also to hear the full 9-1-1 call. And see evidence photos of their rooms as police found them on 4/20.

It annoys me that the suicide photos were leaked but nothing else that would actually give people answers are not. There's no reason for us to have seen the suicide photos. It was Daniel R'sfather who leaked it right?

It takes a lot of you when you’re shooting guns let alone a shotgun like Eric had. Technically, they wandered about the school for a long long time from the time the 1st shot went off. You can almost bet your last dollar they were in complete shock they didn’t run into any law enforcement by the time they eventually committed suicide.

I don’t know specifically how much ammo they had left but I bet it wasn’t much and it was just done. Bombs didn’t go off so they improvised but they would have killed a lot more of it wasn’t for Dave a sanders.

That's one thing that i always come back to. What the heck were they thinking when they realized SWAT wasn't coming in after them? Eric was in soldier-mode, you know he must have been slightly disappointed. They both wanted to kill cops as part of their revenge for 1/30/98. I wonder if after they went back to the library and kept shooting they thought they had hit anyone outside.

Screamingophelia wrote:

It annoys me that the suicide photos were leaked  but nothing else that would actually give people answers are not. There's no reason for us to have seen the suicide photos. It was Daniel R's father who leaked it right?

Yes, it was Danny R's father who leaked them and I don't blame him one bit. His boys death was splashed across the front page of newspapers before he even received confirmation that Danny was dead. And even if he did know, that was a terrible thing for him to see in the morning paper. He wanted revenge. We can all say we would do things differently, but you don't really know what you would do until it's you in that situation. He was very, very angry and I guess seeing the murderers' death photos published seemed like a twisted form of justice.

I've always been kinda glad the pictures were published. It takes the "glamour" out of what Eric and Dylan did, and shows you the gory harsh reality of suicide, death, and murder.  I bet they have less fan girls and boys than they might have, had the pictures never surfaced. On the flip side, I'm also glad that the library carnage was never revealed because the victims deserve their dignity, even (especially?) in death. Eric and Dylan chose this route, but their victims certainly didn't.

Justjenna wrote:

I've always been kinda glad the pictures were published. It sort of takes the "glamour" out of what Eric and Dylan did, and shows you the gory harsh reality of suicide, death, and murder.  I bet they have less fan girls and boys than they might have, had the pictures never surfaced. On the flip side, I'm also glad that the library carnage was never revealed because the victims deserve their dignity, even (especially?) in death. Eric and Dylan chose this route, but their victims certainly didn't.

Unless you're Randy Stair and you obsess over the suicide photos and put them in the background of posters in your room...

Heh, touche, but I would still bet that Stair is the minority and not the norm in this situation.

Also, I can't get over the fact that Randy shares a last name with someone closely involved with Columbine (Joe Stair). That's just so creepy to me.

It probably confirmed how fucked up society really is in the 1st place. Hindsight is 20/20 but how do you not enter the area where there is direct gunfire if you’re trained adults and trained law enforcement? You’re entering far far away from the threat but I guess that was protocol back then?

There’s still problems to this day regarding shootings. Paddock didn’t kill more people in Vegas because he stopped himself. The firefighters and others at least tried to save people on September 11th because that’s what they were trained to do and if there is a heaven, they are no doubt there.

The biggest issue I have with Columbine is the fact two somewhat intelligent kids decided to take out innocent kids to prove their point. Even if the bombs would have went off I feel they would still be regarded as some type of martyrs.

I studied, I Analyzed, I did enough to really understand why they did what they did. Their anger and hate was derived from witnessing certain groups and people getting special privileges throughout school. Along with some bullying and other things made Columbine. People don’t want to admit it because they are scared but in some ways they did in fact kick start a revolution.

A star college football player raped a young female a couple months ago, it becomes a war of he said she said, who wins?

You already know, even in 2017.

Justjenna wrote:

Heh, touche, but I would still bet that Stair is the minority and not the norm in this situation.

Also, I can't get over the fact that Randy shares a last name with someone closely involved with Columbine (Joe Stair). That's just so creepy to me.

He's definitely in the minority which I guess is slightly comforting.

I think Randy and Joe's moms also both have the same first name. Amanda is a member on the forum maybe she can confirm. Very weird coincidence...

Sane One wrote:

A star college football player raped a young female a couple months ago, it becomes a war of he said she said,  who wins?

You already know, even in 2017.

Considering the current culture in America, I think the female would be believed even without evidence. Look at what's happening in Hollywood and in Washington DC. Actors and producers are being blacklisted and kicked out of the unions, politicians are stepping down from office... All over accusations that remain unproven. I'm not saying these men are innocent because I'm sure they aren't. And I'm part of the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] movement. But it does appear that McCarthyism is reappearing and all it takes is an accusation to take down a career.

Justjenna wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

It annoys me that the suicide photos were leaked  but nothing else that would actually give people answers are not. There's no reason for us to have seen the suicide photos. It was Daniel R's father who leaked it right?

Yes, it was Danny R's father who leaked them and I don't blame him one bit. His boys death was splashed across the front page of newspapers before he even received confirmation that Danny was dead. And even if he did know, that was a terrible thing for him to see in the morning paper. He wanted revenge. We can all say we would do things differently, but you don't really know what you would do until it's you in that situation. He was very, very angry and I guess seeing the murderers' death photos published seemed like a twisted form of justice.

I've always been kinda glad the pictures were published. It takes the "glamour" out of what Eric and Dylan did, and shows you the gory harsh reality of suicide, death, and murder.  I bet they have less fan girls and boys than they might have, had the pictures never surfaced. On the flip side, I'm also glad that the library carnage was never revealed because the victims deserve their dignity, even (especially?) in death. Eric and Dylan chose this route, but their victims certainly didn't.

I was more thinking for the sake of their parents. The Klebolds and Harris's didn't splash Dans picture in the papers.

I think it caused more empathy releasing the pictures.

I have no idea what could stop fangirls and fanboys from feeling a certain way about them..

Another thing we don't really talk about a lot is how, luckily, so much evidence has been released that it's very hard to come by someone who will claim it never happened.

False flag and hoax claims seem to be much more common nowadays, but with Columbine the worst you have is the rape theory and maybe some people who say they had help that day.

What other mass shootings have this much evidence? It goes on and on and compared to the Sandy Hook documents, very little is redacted. And this was 20 years ago...

Littlelo wrote:

Another thing we don't really talk about a lot is how, luckily, so much evidence has been released that it's very hard to come by someone who will claim it never happened.

False flag and hoax claims seem to be much more common nowadays, but with Columbine the worst you have is the rape theory and maybe some people who say they had help that day.

What other mass shootings have this much evidence? It goes on and on and compared to the Sandy Hook documents, very little is redacted. And this was 20 years ago...

There was a 5 hour podcast about how Columbine was a conspiracy. I didn't make it far into it

Leaking their death photos didn't stop people from looking up to them, look on YouTube for the video 'In the house of Atticana' and at the 5:21 mark, there is an old man from Britain who is in love with Eric Harris and has his death photo on his bedroom wall.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

23september wrote:

I thought Patrick crawled out before they came back?

E&D had already committed suicide. It took Patrick a while before he was able to get himself to that window.

Thank you!

spidEr wrote:

watch the CCTV footage in the cafeteria, there is at least 4 kids at the back of the room hiding under a tables and Eric and Dylan near the staircase can clearly see them, but they are not interested in them only the bombs. They watch the kids run out of the side doors without care.

do you think they wanted to"kill" the school more than kill ppl ?

Justjenna wrote:

Heh, touche, but I would still bet that Stair is the minority and not the norm in this situation.

Also, I can't get over the fact that Randy shares a last name with someone closely involved with Columbine (Joe Stair). That's just so creepy to me.

joe stair commited "suicide" i wrote with suicide with " cause i dont believe the story.
blood was found on the floor
some survivors suddenly disspaeared or were killed i dont think its a coincidence.
look at 9/11 where the eyewitness suddenly began to die due illness or "commited suicide"
one was killed in plane crash she didnt believe the official story and guess who gave her tickets for the flight?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Rebbie556 wrote:

Justjenna wrote:

Heh, touche, but I would still bet that Stair is the minority and not the norm in this situation.

Also, I can't get over the fact that Randy shares a last name with someone closely involved with Columbine (Joe Stair). That's just so creepy to me.

joe stair commited "suicide" i wrote with  suicide with " cause i dont believe the story.
blood was found on the floor
some survivors suddenly disspaeared or were killed i dont think its a coincidence.
look at 9/11 where the eyewitness suddenly began to die due illness or "commited suicide"
one was killed in plane crash she didnt believe the official story  and guess who gave her tickets for the flight?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Joe's sister Amanda who was in the library that day IS a member of this forum. She has discussed Joe's suicide a few times. Also she has a whole Youtube series on Columbine where she goes into great details what happened that day. In one video she does talk about Joe's suicde, she says that he was having issues with his ex wife when he killed himself. I tend to believe his sister over any wild conspiracy in that regard.

Thanks for putting that out there SG. I know we can all have our opinions but she has talked at length about Joe in her YouTube videos and I agree, I believe her over whatever conspiracy there might be out there. It's a sensitive subject.

Littlelo wrote:

Thanks for putting that out there SG. I know we can all have our opinions but she has talked at length about Joe in her YouTube videos and I agree, I believe her over whatever conspiracy there might be out there. It's a sensitive subject.

I do too.

Amanda's really been great posting here. He had graduated long before any of this too I think.