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 Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?

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rik75



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PostSubject: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:18 am

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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:21 am

I cannot see the Tec9 in image 1. How can an official crime scene photo be such poor quality?
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:32 am

You got the pictures up? Easy, huh? And you can't see it because Dylan is laying on it. Have you ever seen the full crime scene suicide photos?

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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:25 pm

did someone photoshop the 3rd pic?
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:35 pm

Where did you find these pictures rik75? The Tec9 looks like it's just been stuck onto 'Image 3.'
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:42 pm

I thought the pic was photoshopped to show the Tech 9 is resting under his leg?
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:27 am

When Dylan collapsed after the fatal shot he fell onto the Tech9 and it was hidden under his leg. Before i found this pic i thought the gun was supposed to have been resting on top of his leg. I couldn't see the gun and i thought it may have blended in with the color of his pants and thus been camouflaged due to the dark colours. But now we can see exactly where the gun landed.
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:30 am

I can see the gun handle sticking out a bit ,just under his little finger.
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
When Dylan collapsed after the fatal shot he fell onto the Tech9 and it was hidden under his leg. Before i found this pic i thought the gun was supposed to have been resting on top of his leg. I couldn't see the gun and i thought it may have blended in with the color of his pants and thus been camouflaged due to the dark colours. But now we can see exactly where the gun landed.
Where were the pictures from just out of interest?

Just from the reports. A TEC-9 (Item #903) with a live round in the chamber was in the right hand and under the right leg of KLEBOLD. It was also attached with a strap to KLEBOLD's body pg(12302). His right arm was extended by his side and his right hand was around the grip of the TEC-9
pistol pg(12303).


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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:45 pm

Its quite a strange way to hold a gun. Dylan held the gun with his right hand and shot himself through the left temple? Dylan was left handed i believe. I wonder why he didn't fire into his right temple? Or am i incorrect? I would hold the gun in my right hand and fire it into my right side.
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:32 pm

Didn't he shoot himself with his left hand? Hmm...
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:29 pm

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Its quite a strange way to hold a gun. Dylan held the gun with his right hand and shot himself through the left temple? Dylan was left handed i believe. I wonder why he didn't fire into his right temple? Or am i incorrect? I would hold the gun in my right hand and fire it into my right side.
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Didn't he shoot himself with his left hand? Hmm...
I assume you have seen the crime scene suicide photographs as Jenn mentioned earlier? They are unpleasant but easily accessible. The fact Dylan was left handed but the Tec-9 was found in his right hand has been a source of discussion and controversy for a long time. Also Dylan did shoot himself in the left side of his head. His autopsy report also concludes he suffered a self inflicted gunshot wound involving the left side of his head. It is later mentioned that present on the left side of the head is an "entrance type of gunshot wound." pg(1-2) Additionally on pg(7) of the autopsy summary it says "The wound is consistent with 9mm ammunition." The Tec9 held 9mm ammunition.  

Moseley where did you read he shot himself with his left hand? I'm just wondering as i'd be interested to see the source. Also just out of curiosity where is the original photo set from rik75?

I mentioned this above but: "A TEC-9 (Item #903) with a live round in the chamber was in the right hand and under the right leg of KLEBOLD."
"Hammond and Griffin cut the strap holding this firearm and removed it from KLEBOLD's right hand." pg(12302)

"Body #11, DYLAN KLEBOLD, a white male, was on his back with his head pointing east. His legs were bent at the hip with his knees towards the north and his lower legs pointing west. His left arm was across his stomach with a fingerless black glove on his left hand. His right arm was extended by his side and his right hand was around the grip of the TEC-9 pistol. pg(12303)

This suggests as the leaked suicide pictures show that the Tec-9 was found in Dylan's right hand.
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:32 pm

I always assumed he did, he was a leftie after all?
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:38 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Didn't he shoot himself with his left hand? Hmm...
I believe Dylan held the Tec 9 with his right hand. He then shot himself in the left temple.
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:44 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I always assumed he did, he was a leftie after all?
He was left handed but that didn't apply during his suicide. He held the Tec 9 with his right hand and pointed it at his left temple and BOOOM!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:44 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I always assumed he did, he was a leftie after all?
Ah right, my mistake, I assumed you had read something about it and i was curious. As I mention it has been a source of confusion and discussion for a long time now. I don't subscribe to this view but some believe that Dylan was shot by law enforcement then had the gun planted incorrectly in his right hand to make it look like a suicide.
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:53 pm

If it wasn't in his left hand when the gun went off, then it must have been law enforcement or even Eric possibly?
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:04 pm

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If it wasn't in his left hand when the gun went off, then it must have been law enforcement or even Eric possibly?
Dylan had a wound of entrance left temple and a wound of exit right temple. He held the gun with his right and left hand. Possibly using the right hand as the trigger finger and his left hand may have held the guns magazine. He fired a shot and fell down onto the gun. Possibly...
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:46 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If it wasn't in his left hand when the gun went off, then it must have been law enforcement or even Eric possibly?
Dylan had a wound of entrance left temple and a wound of exit right temple. He held the gun with his right and left hand. Possibly using the right hand as the trigger finger and his left hand may have held the guns magazine. He fired a shot and fell down onto the gun. Possibly...
That seems very likely, just to be certain was there only two photos of the dead bodies?
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:54 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If it wasn't in his left hand when the gun went off, then it must have been law enforcement or even Eric possibly?
Dylan had a wound of entrance left temple and a wound of exit right temple. He held the gun with his right and left hand. Possibly using the right hand as the trigger finger and his left hand may have held the guns magazine. He fired a shot and fell down onto the gun. Possibly...
That seems very likely, just to be certain was there only two photos of the dead bodies?
Yes, the two photographs were leaked by the National Enquirer in 2002.
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:14 pm

I really don't think that Dylan was actually holding the gun with his right hand. I think that his right hand just happened to fall on top of the gun after he shot himself. Dylan was left handed. We can see in the Cafeteria photos that he is carrying the Tec-9 in his left hand. He was shot in the left temple. It is possible that he used his right hand to steady the gun against his head. Although, I seriously doubt that. Dylan most likely shot himself with his left hand and then dropped the gun between his legs. When the police came in and kicked him off of Eric's leg, it just so happened that his right hand landed on top of the gun. This is just what I think anyways.

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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:24 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I really don't think that Dylan was actually holding the gun with his right hand. I think that his right hand just happened to fall on top of the gun after he shot himself. Dylan was left handed. We can see in the Cafeteria photos that he is carrying the Tec-9 in his left hand. He was shot in the left temple. It is possible that he used his right hand to steady the gun against his head. Although, I seriously doubt that. Dylan most likely shot himself with his left hand and then dropped the gun between his legs. When the police came in and kicked him off of Eric's leg, it just so happened that his right hand landed on top of the gun. This is just what I think anyways.
Yes ,that makes more sense than my own theory because a lefty holding a gun in his right hand and shooting his left temple is strange and unlikely also. Do you know if Dylan's death bullet had been found? It may provide us with a trajectory of the bullets path and show us the position of the Tech 9 and the position of Dylan's head at the moment he shot himself. I have been looking in the 11K and i cant find that info. It could help us answer the question we all want so much : the position of Dylan's head and the position of the gun during his suicide. Why do we all have to discuss this to find answers? Why haven't the authorities released this info ? They won't release pictures so why couldn't they have provided us with sketches instead? Question


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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:52 pm

That middle drawing definitely has the gun in the wrong position, and you can see the bottom of the grip sticking out below his hand in the first pic. Looks like the third pic was shopped to show the correct position,

However, to me it seems they planted it in his right hand, not knowing he was a leftie. Definitely out of whack considering he was shot on the left side of the head....
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:08 am

I have been reading the 11K. Pages 7689 - page 8274.

Bomb / first responder's / first aid / weapons.

It appears ( to me ) that E/D's bodies were not moved in any way until the coroner arrived to remove the bodies. It seems that E/D were photographed in the position they both died in.
I am simply trying to make sense of the situation regarding the following:

1) Were E/D's bodies moved prior to being photographed?
2) Did E/D die in the exact position as we see in the photographs?

After reading the statement provided by Bomb technician Mike Guerra ,it seems to me that E/D were not moved prior to being photographed. I think E/D were properly searched shortly before being removed by the coroner. There's the question about how did Dylan have trickles of blood running down each cheek ,gravity provides the answer.

At the moment Dylan shot himself ,could he have fallen to the floor with his face laying on its right side? Then the blood runs down his cheeks and during his very last moments alive , could he have turned his face to the left and died in the position we see in the photographs?
I am just trying to make sense of Mike Guerra's statement.

Here is bomb technician Mike Guerra's statement regarding the search and removal of E/D's bodies.

Mike Guerra 21 april 1999 - 1700 hours :

At 1700 hours , we began our initial survey of CHS , starting with the west entrance. Near the west entrance we noticed a one pound propane bottle with a CO2 cartridge taped to the outside of it. Once we entered the first set of doors , we encountered a black plastic card file box ,which contained [ redacted]

We moved down to the main hallway to the library entrance. We entered the library and began searching for explosives. On a library desk toward the front of the library , we encountered one CO2 cartridge near the two suspects bodies. We also identified an area where a molotov cocktail was detonated and located another CO2 cartridge on a chair in the same area.

At this time we could see [ redacted ] exposed in suspect Klebold's left cargo pants pocket. At this time , we began removing the unexploded cartridges, one at a time. We removed seven CO2 cartridges and one small pipe bomb. Next we moved to suspect Harris's body. On the floor near his feet , were five unexploded CO2 cartridges.

Suspect Harris's right cargo pants pocket was buttoned. At this time i cut along the top edge of the pocket. Once i did that , i could see in his pocket , and removed four more CO2 cartridge from his right cargo pocket. The [ redacted ] and all the devices were placed into a blast case. We then exited the library.

At 2300 hours , i was contacted by the command post and was advised to proceed to the library and meet with a representative from the coroner's office. Upon arrival at the library , i was informed by the coroner's office that they would like me to stand by while they removed the bodies.

We began removing personal articles from suspect Klebold , and at this time ,the coroner began to roll suspect Klebold exposing right pants cargo pocket , which had not been searched due to the position his body. I cut open the pocket and exposed an additional eight [ redacted ] I placed tape on the top of the [ redacted ] in a vermiculite casing.

After suspect Klebold's body was removed , we then went to suspect Harris's body. Suspect Harris's body was rolled exposing the left pants cargo pocket. I cut open the pants pocket and removed [ redacted ] and secured those four in the vermiculite case. I then took the case out and secured it in a bomb vehicle.

So E/D's bodies were searched more thoroughly during the removal from the library.
The first time Guerra searched the bodies he only removed articles from the pockets which were accessible without moving the bodies.


Would they have been photographed after Guerra searched the bodies and with the coroner present?
Guerra never mentioned when E/D were photographed.
What do you make of this ?
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:04 am

The pictures we have of Eric/Dylan dead in the library were taken sometime between 10:50am-3:35pm on April 21 1999.

Here is the evidence:

On the morning of Wednesday, April 21st, Chris Andrist conducted a preliminary walk through for, and overall documentation by, Tom Adair (Arapahoe County SO) and Bob Lloyd (Thornton PD) for videotaping and Chris Loptien (JCSO) and Griffin (CBI) for photography.

These individuals entered the school at approximately 10 a.m. and began the documentation at approximately 10:50 a.m. completing it at approximately 12 p.m. Andrist identified the team assignments outside of the school and team members then met to ensure a standard approach to all of the scenes. Each of the teams was led through the various scenes in the school to help in the assessment of evidence.

Team Two entered the building at approximately 1:54 p.m. The processing of the scene continued until Thursday April 29th.

Team Two scene processing included measurements and diagrams (primarily handled by DeLong), photography (Swanson and Jennings), identification of evidence and some package preparation (Hammond and Griffin) and collection, sealing and log entry of evidence (Jennings, Savage, Acierno, Stalter, and Rowlett), projectile entrances, exits and trajectories (Hammond and Griffin), and bloodstain pattern evaluation (Griffin). This team had been assigned evidence numbers 900 through 1199.

One primary focus on the 21st was to document the positions of the victims and suspects with photography and measurements, and collect any evidence near the bodies that might be disturbed in the process of removing the bodies. The other primary focus was to obtain firearm data for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF).

A TEC-9 (Item #903) with a live round in the chamber was in the right hand and under the right leg of KLEBOLD. It was also attached with a strap to KLEBOLD's body. At 3:35 p.m. under the direction of Jefferson County Coroner's Office Chief Deputy Coroner Triena Harper, Hammond and Griffin cut the strap holding this firearm and removed it from KLEBOLD's right hand.

Bodies were removed beginning with VELASQUEZ and CURNOW and ending with KLEBOLD and HARRIS.

The photographers exposed 50 rolls of color film; two by Griffin on the initial walk through and 46 by Jennings and Swanson during the processing, and two by Rowlett.

Initial Walk-Through between 10:50am-12:00pm
Roll #1
26 - Midrange of Harris and Klebold (bounce flash)
27 - Midrange of Harris and Klebold
29 - Overall of Klebold and west side of library
30 - Midrange of Harris and Klebold
32 - Midrange of Harris and Klebold

Photolog after 1:54pm
Roll #8
14 - Overall, north to south, bodies #11 and 12
15 - Overall, west to east, bodies #11 and 12



At 11:45 a.m. on April 21,1999, Chris Andrist of the Jefferson County Sheriffs Office conducted a briefing for crime scene personnel. A plan was presented to divide the crime scene into specific areas and assign a team of four or five crime scene personnel to each area. A team leader was designated for each team. Team One personnel consisted of: Barie Goetz, Colorado Bureau of Investigation Ted Ritter, Colorado Bureau of Investigation Tom Adair, Arapahoe County Sheriffs Office Chris Loptien, Jefferson County Sheriffs Office Donald Sollars, Colorado Bureau of Investigation

At approximately 1:39 p.m., April 21, 1999, members of Team One were escorted through the crime scene portion of the school for orientation purposes. At approximately 2:05 p.m., team members initiated processing of the school library. The main emphasis of processing for the
day was evidence documentation and collection to facilitate body recovery.

Duties assignments of Team One were: Barie Goetz - bloodstain pattern interpretation, coordinator of the team. Ted Ritter - photography, firearm evidence recognition Tom Adair - measurements, crime scene sketching Chris Loptien - evidence collection, evidence log Donald Sollars - photography log.

All team members were assigned the task of evidence recognition and the marking of its location with a green placard evidence marker. Numbers 600 through 899 were assigned to Team One for identifying evidence.

All items of evidence were assigned a number, photographed in place, measured for final location in sketch, and then collected in a suitable container and marked with the case number, item number, date, time, location, description, and the initials of the collector.

Prior to collection of evidence, overall photographs were taken of the library entrance, main staff counter, student area, and bodies of the deceased.

Initial Walk Through between 1:39pm-2:05pm

Roll WT-3
12 - Overall of Bodies #11 and #12
13 - Overall of Bodies #11 and #12

Roll WT-4
2 - Overall of Bodies #11 and #12
3 - Overall of Bodies #11 and #12
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:16 pm

Dylan didn't die instantly like Eric did, Im sure he rolled around a bit before he died, Could have somhing to do with why the gun was under his leg.
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:15 pm

its obvious to me the tec9 on the 3d photo was add. bad job
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:24 pm

XLoner27 wrote:
its obvious to me the tec9 on the 3d photo was add. bad job

I think it was an add too, but I think whoever did it was just trying to let us see where the gun was laying underneath of Dylan's leg.
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Sun May 24, 2015 3:10 pm

@rik75 wrote:
I wonder why he didn't fire into his right temple? Or am i incorrect? I would hold the gun in my right hand and fire it into my right side.

No, he did shoot himself with his right hand, and I think I know why.

Look at this picture from the Rampart Range video.



Dylan is holding the handgun with his right hand and is reloading it with the left one. Why? Because Tec9 cocking handle is situated on the left side of the gun, it's a weapon for righties basically.

It was probably very awkward for him to shoot, but then again, it's probably the reason why he got a weapon with such an ammo capacity, so that he didn't have to reload so much.

What happened is probably that he cocked his gun, and didn't care enough to put it into the left hand, just put it to his right temple and prepared to die. He didn't have to aim for that shot.
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PostSubject: Re: Have you seen this pic of Dylan dead in library with his Tec9?   Mon May 25, 2015 11:23 am

The autopsy evidence states:

Wound "A" measures 3/4" in diameter. Wound "B" measures 1/2" in diameter.

The wound of entrance is designated wound "A" in the region of the left temple. The projectile penetrated the cranium through the left temporal bone; extended across the undersurface of both cerebral hemispheres; exiting the head through the right temporal bone. The perforated area on the LEFT side is beveled INWARD; the perforated area on the RIGHT side is beveled OUTWARD. Powder is associated with the wound on the left side of the head. The projectile traveled left to right slightly front to back and slightly downward. The characteristics of the wound are consistent with a large caliber weapon; with a close contact range of fire; consistent with self-infliction. The wound is consistent with 9mm ammunition.

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