how come school shooters target their schools/past schools

nik cruz, adam lanza, eric and dylan. why? is it cause they had a hard time there?

a broken human wrote:

nik cruz, adam lanza, eric and dylan. why? is it cause they had a hard time there?

I'm sure there are many reasons, some we know, some will may never know.
Usually school is where bullying starts, and kids start having a hard time.
Many school shooters were seemingly decent kids, until they started having issues in said school, which in my opinion lights the flame so to speak.

In Eric and Dylan's case, it morphed from hating certain kids, to hating the school as a whole.
People heard Eric exclaim "This school is fucking dead" while shaking bookcases, which showed his hatred towards the school in general.

Another reason is there are a lot of people enclosed in a somewhat small place, making them sitting ducks and easy targets.
Most school's are rather easy to gain entry to if planned correctly, and if you're a student you won't even get looked at twice.
It's not like for example a concert, where you might have to go through metal detectors or be patted down and risk getting caught.

Usually shooters have some sort of resentment towards the people or place they decide to kill at, but there are exceptions.
A decent amount leave some sort of evidence, manifesto or reasoning behind why they did what they did, but of course there are many who don't.

For instance, Stephen Paddock the Vegas shooter left nothing behind, and the FBI found no motive as to why he shot up a concert killing 58 people.
That shooting is even more interesting to me than Columbine because of the mystery behind why a 64 year old man who supposedly was a multi-millionaire ended up doing what he did.

I agree with Slippy. Add to it that most are somewhat comfortable with the school and layout due to being there for years, they knew the people that went there etc.

Simply put, it's where they're at the most aside from their house. Someone who's looking for a quick and easy way to take as many people with them as possible wouldn't have to go very far.

The familiarity is certainly a big one. Most murderers do it in a place where they are familiar, and few places are more familiar than one's school.

I don't recall any witness saying Eric said "This school is dead" at any moment. "This school is dead" is only in Zero Hour as far as I'm aware.  Regardless, that seems nothing more than a matter of fact statement that he thought the bombs and gunshots would kill everyone in the library. "Everybody's gonna die" doesn't come close to revealing a motive for why he's doing it. It's just the lazy version of events to say otherwise. No less so than saying they targeted Christians because they taunted people who said oh my god to say they hated school because they taunted people that school had messed them up.  One needs more than that and a just so story about hating kids to hating the school doesn't cut it.  It seems they would both say they hated most people anywhere.

I would say Eric and Dylans journals and Adam's radio interview are going to provide some of the best insight for this question. If there's a symbol of school which makes it a target it isn't bullying per se, it's socialization. If you can detect comfortable lies and mere conformity, or fail in relationships, you won't like school.

Adam's radio interview seems to bring up the further issue of returning to a safe spot to die. Like returning to the womb. Some see that with Eric and Dylan returning to the library alongside their victims.

I would add another one sees in Eric and Adam, and probably Cruz as well, the issue of living in the nuclear age. Schools tend to be shelters for nuclear war, and nuclear war itself is what killed the age old philosophical debate between whether war is a normal or at least inevitable part of life, a good, masculine virtue,  or something gross and abnormal. Those who still believe in the former and wish to have a glorious battle have few other choices in the age of nukes and fourth generation warfare.

cakeman wrote:

I would add another one sees in Eric and Adam, and probably Cruz as well, the issue of living in the nuclear age. Schools tend to be shelters for nuclear war, and nuclear war itself is what killed the age old philosophical debate between whether war is a normal or at least inevitable part of life, a good, masculine virtue,  or something gross and abnormal. Those who still believe in the former and wish to have a glorious battle have few other choices in the age of nukes and fourth generation warfare.

You know, putting it that way, I wonder how many war criminals would have become murderers if peace had been prevailing instead of warfare. I could list off a number of examples and incidents, but I [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

slippy123 wrote:

a broken human wrote:

nik cruz, adam lanza, eric and dylan. why? is it cause they had a hard time there?

I'm sure there are many reasons, some we know, some will may never know.
Usually school is where bullying starts, and kids start having a hard time.
Many school shooters were seemingly decent kids, until they started having issues in said school, which in my opinion lights the flame so to speak.

In Eric and Dylan's case, it morphed from hating certain kids, to hating the school as a whole.
People heard Eric exclaim "This school is fucking dead" while shaking bookcases, which showed his hatred towards the school in general.

Another reason is there are a lot of people enclosed in a somewhat small place, making them sitting ducks and easy targets.
Most school's are rather easy to gain entry to if planned correctly, and if you're a student you won't even get looked at twice.
It's not like for example a concert, where you might have to go through metal detectors or be patted down and risk getting caught.

Usually shooters have some sort of resentment towards the people or place they decide to kill at, but there are exceptions.
A decent amount leave some sort of evidence, manifesto or reasoning behind why they did what they did, but of course there are many who don't.

For instance, Stephen Paddock the Vegas shooter left nothing behind, and the FBI found no motive as to why he shot up a concert killing 58 people.
That shooting is even more interesting to me than Columbine because of the mystery behind why a 64 year old man who supposedly was a multi-millionaire ended up doing what he did.

Thanks for your reply Slippy.

I agree. I think it is most logical for a shooter to do so, especially if they know their way around, plus have had a hard time in that particular environment. Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel as though they also want their victims to know how much pain they went through at that school...?

cakeman wrote:

The familiarity is certainly a big one. Most murderers do it in a place where they are familiar, and few places are more familiar than one's school.

I don't recall any witness saying Eric said "This school is dead" at any moment. "This school is dead" is only in Zero Hour as far as I'm aware.  Regardless, that seems nothing more than a matter of fact statement that he thought the bombs and gunshots would kill everyone in the library. "Everybody's gonna die" doesn't come close to revealing a motive for why he's doing it. It's just the lazy version of events to say otherwise. No less so than saying they targeted Christians because they taunted people who said oh my god to say they hated school because they taunted people that school had messed them up.  One needs more than that and a just so story about hating kids to hating the school doesn't cut it.  It seems they would both say they hated most people anywhere.

I would say Eric and Dylans journals and Adam's radio interview are going to provide some of the best insight for this question. If there's a symbol of school which makes it a target it isn't bullying per se, it's socialization. If you can detect comfortable lies and mere conformity, or fail in relationships, you won't like school.

Adam's radio interview seems to bring up the further issue of returning to a safe spot to die. Like returning to the womb. Some see that with Eric and Dylan returning to the library alongside their victims.

I would add another one sees in Eric and Adam, and probably Cruz as well, the issue of living in the nuclear age. Schools tend to be shelters for nuclear war, and nuclear war itself is what killed the age old philosophical debate between whether war is a normal or at least inevitable part of life, a good, masculine virtue,  or something gross and abnormal. Those who still believe in the former and wish to have a glorious battle have few other choices in the age of nukes and fourth generation warfare.

cakeman, despite convenience, I don't understand why Eric and Dylan would want to die in the same area as their victims. All the torment they went through at that school, I would of thought they would want to die away from them.

QuestionMark wrote:

cakeman wrote:

I would add another one sees in Eric and Adam, and probably Cruz as well, the issue of living in the nuclear age. Schools tend to be shelters for nuclear war, and nuclear war itself is what killed the age old philosophical debate between whether war is a normal or at least inevitable part of life, a good, masculine virtue,  or something gross and abnormal. Those who still believe in the former and wish to have a glorious battle have few other choices in the age of nukes and fourth generation warfare.

You know, putting it that way, I wonder how many war criminals would have become murderers if peace had been prevailing instead of warfare. I could list off a number of examples and incidents, but I [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

Rather than dwell on atrocity propaganda, I would go further and wonder how many average soldiers who felt that was their role in life would have become restless murderers if they lived in the year 2000. Not to mention the conquerors. The ambition of Alexander the Great or say just Zachary Taylor stifled by the nuclear age and industrial revolution and single mothers could not end well.  Many who take the massacre more seriously than the average bear will point to Eric's inability to get into the Marines as a motivation. It seems to me many of the school shooters want to kill not out of a sense of sadism or boredom, but a sense of duty and a steam valve they don't find elsewhere; out of a sense that "War is to man as maternity is to the woman." They get that sense of relief that they are finally doing something serious with their lives that you see in early parts of the American Civil War or the outbreak of WWI. If he could really be a space marine, it is doubtful Eric would have had anything to do with the massacre. Adam and Cruz also obviously had fantasies of being in the military. Seeing it as "Toxic masculinity" or "the problem is the existence of conflict itself" or whatever is doubling down on the approach that made them act in the first place.

a broken human wrote:

cakeman wrote:

The familiarity is certainly a big one. Most murderers do it in a place where they are familiar, and few places are more familiar than one's school.

I don't recall any witness saying Eric said "This school is dead" at any moment. "This school is dead" is only in Zero Hour as far as I'm aware.  Regardless, that seems nothing more than a matter of fact statement that he thought the bombs and gunshots would kill everyone in the library. "Everybody's gonna die" doesn't come close to revealing a motive for why he's doing it. It's just the lazy version of events to say otherwise. No less so than saying they targeted Christians because they taunted people who said oh my god to say they hated school because they taunted people that school had messed them up.  One needs more than that and a just so story about hating kids to hating the school doesn't cut it.  It seems they would both say they hated most people anywhere.

I would say Eric and Dylans journals and Adam's radio interview are going to provide some of the best insight for this question. If there's a symbol of school which makes it a target it isn't bullying per se, it's socialization. If you can detect comfortable lies and mere conformity, or fail in relationships, you won't like school.

Adam's radio interview seems to bring up the further issue of returning to a safe spot to die. Like returning to the womb. Some see that with Eric and Dylan returning to the library alongside their victims.

I would add another one sees in Eric and Adam, and probably Cruz as well, the issue of living in the nuclear age. Schools tend to be shelters for nuclear war, and nuclear war itself is what killed the age old philosophical debate between whether war is a normal or at least inevitable part of life, a good, masculine virtue,  or something gross and abnormal. Those who still believe in the former and wish to have a glorious battle have few other choices in the age of nukes and fourth generation warfare.

cakeman, despite convenience, I don't understand why Eric and Dylan would want to die in the same area as their victims. All the torment they went through at that school, I would of thought they would want to die away from them.

I don't personally ascribe to this idea, but people whose opinions on the massacre I respect have done so. Also, respectfully, I don't really buy "all the torment they went through at that school" either. I think that's kind of day 1 Columbine researchers answer and coping with the awful nature of the crime, that they must have been so tormented that their victims, at least as embodied in the school, in a way deserved it.

It also takes their taunting in the library at face value, not unlike those who think they targeted Christians. Even if one were to target a school simply because of it being familiar to you and having the most victims available and the media publicity, with no particular hatred for the school over other places of people, it might well make sense in the moment to taunt people with "This school fucked me up",  "this is for how you treated us", in a similar way you might taunt people who say "oh my god". It just fits the circumstances as they were given. It doesn't say anything in particular about their motives.

Worse, little else except their taunts can sustain the view that they were tormented by the school, at least in the sense of being tormented by bullies and the usual way that's given.  Dylan seems tormented by not having a girlfriend, and Eric tormented by over-socialization. While there are a few references which might show the motive to be bullying, "people are always making fun of me", "ultimate fucking revenge here", I don't think they are clear cut, and there seem to me a few much clearer examples the other way, Eric saying the administration is doing a fine job, and nicknaming himself "Reb". I've never seen anybody even try to explain why he used the school's fight name while hating the school so much.  I think it was more about hating life in general for them, and about hitting upon the school as the place where they could kill the most people, be the most familiar, gather most media attention, etc, and things like having followers, getting revenge on their classmates, etc, came to them later.  

I also think any bullying was more the result of their being outcasts for e. g. not having a girlfriend, not conforming, etc, rather than the problem as such. "Natural selection" and "Tier" and "Wilder Wein" doesn't really say anything about being tormented by the school either, but about being tormented by society, the wish to be a wild animal. And Dylan was very large.

Forgive me as I know that was long winded, and I'm definitely less confident about the above than I am other theories I have about the massacre, but I have the 'tism or whatever it is that cannot stand begging the question. What if they weren't all that tormented by the school should be the first question, and not taken as self evident.

But let's take it that way regardless. There is definitely a story one can conjure up about them returning to the library because they were victims of that dreadful school, just like the people they shot, so they blow their brains out among most of their victims.

However, personally, returning to the library to watch their car bombs explode seems the more parsimonious explanation to me.

a broken human wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

a broken human wrote:

nik cruz, adam lanza, eric and dylan. why? is it cause they had a hard time there?

I'm sure there are many reasons, some we know, some will may never know.
Usually school is where bullying starts, and kids start having a hard time.
Many school shooters were seemingly decent kids, until they started having issues in said school, which in my opinion lights the flame so to speak.

In Eric and Dylan's case, it morphed from hating certain kids, to hating the school as a whole.
People heard Eric exclaim "This school is fucking dead" while shaking bookcases, which showed his hatred towards the school in general.

Another reason is there are a lot of people enclosed in a somewhat small place, making them sitting ducks and easy targets.
Most school's are rather easy to gain entry to if planned correctly, and if you're a student you won't even get looked at twice.
It's not like for example a concert, where you might have to go through metal detectors or be patted down and risk getting caught.

Usually shooters have some sort of resentment towards the people or place they decide to kill at, but there are exceptions.
A decent amount leave some sort of evidence, manifesto or reasoning behind why they did what they did, but of course there are many who don't.

For instance, Stephen Paddock the Vegas shooter left nothing behind, and the FBI found no motive as to why he shot up a concert killing 58 people.
That shooting is even more interesting to me than Columbine because of the mystery behind why a 64 year old man who supposedly was a multi-millionaire ended up doing what he did.

Thanks for your reply Slippy.

I agree. I think it is most logical for a shooter to do so, especially if they know their way around, plus have had a hard time in that particular environment. Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel as though they also want their victims to know how much pain they went through at that school...?

No problem.
That sounds like a very plausible reason too.
Welcome to the board, we have a good community here aside from the odd troll or two, enjoy your stay .

cakeman wrote:

I would go further and wonder how many average soldiers who felt that was their role in life would have become restless murderers if they lived in the year 2000. Not to mention the conquerors.

That is also true. The country of Israel, for example, has very few mass murders outside of terrorists attacks. I believe this is due, at least in part, to the fact that everyone in Israel has to undergo conscription, added to the fact that the country has to deal with a war every couple of years or so.

cakeman wrote:

If he could really be a space marine, it is doubtful Eric would have had anything to do with the massacre. Adam and Cruz also obviously had fantasies of being in the military.

I agree, but I do have to add the caveat that while Eric would've probably been a good soldier and Nikolas Cruz might (emphasis on might) have been able to make something of himself by fighting in a war, Adam Lanza could not have made it anywhere. His crippling mental disorders that left him sensitive to certain sights and sounds and left him unable to cope with almost any change in his environment means that Adam would not have been able to mesh well in any society or environment he was a part of. I think to some extant he recognized this, but accused the existence of society itself as the reason he could not function rather than as a result of the mental illness cocktail he was born with by chance.

[quote="QuestionMark"]I would go further and wonder how many average soldiers who felt that was their role in life would have become restless murderers if they lived in the year 2000. Not to mention the conquerors.

That is also true. The country of Israel, for example, has very few mass murders outside of terrorists attacks. I believe this is due, at least in part, to the fact that everyone in Israel has to undergo conscription, added to the fact that the country has to deal with a war every couple of years or so.

cakeman wrote:

If he could really be a space marine, it is doubtful Eric would have had anything to do with the massacre. Adam and Cruz also obviously had fantasies of being in the military.

I agree, but I do have to add the caveat that while Eric would've probably been a good soldier and Nikolas Cruz might (emphasis on might) have been able to make something of himself by fighting in a war, Adam Lanza could not have made it anywhere. His crippling mental disorders that left him sensitive to certain sights and sounds and left him unable to cope with almost any change in his environment means that Adam would not have been able to mesh well in any society or environment he was a part of. I think to some extant he recognized this, but accused the existence of society itself as the reason he could not function rather than as a result of the mental illness cocktail he was born with by chance.

Spot on QuestionMark. In the book Newtown: An American Tragedy that released a year after the massacre, there were documents the author found with Nancy Lanza telling either friends or family that Adam went through a period (towards the end of his life) that he really wanted to join the military. He even had targets and the basement all decked out. His mom was happy to see him showing a little excitement about something (this was also when he was obsessed with video games, which he played games like Call of Duty) besides just being isolated at home on his computer or playing video games. She wrote though she knew he would never be admitted.

I think killing a person that wronged you would have more gratification than killing a random stranger you've never met. But there have been many instances of both cases, I guess it depends on where the anger came from the shooter, and what his goal is with the shooting.

a broken human wrote:

nik cruz, adam lanza, eric and dylan. why? is it cause they had a hard time there?

Usually, yeah.

They're familiar with the grounds, chances are they know the place like the back of their hand. I can't think of any reason why anyone would pick a random school to shoot up, unless they wanted to be caught or be a failure. They knew of all of the 'faults' of the building and the most efficient route to maximize the carnage they decided to bring upon their community. Adam Lanza appeared to spend a lot of time after hours at SHES when he was younger to make up for extra lessons, so I imagine that he'd be familiar with the building a bit more than the typical kid.

Ilnaz Galyaviev during interrogation:

"I decided to commit the murder in the gymnasium 175 as it suited me best for this purpose: I knew the location of the school perfectly well, I was well oriented in it. Also, it is located near my house, I could calmly reach it with a weapon and an explosive device that I had prepared, without attracting special attention"

Ive come to realize the best reason to choose the school in a case like Columbine where the school is supposed to blow up and the perps being students themselves is hiding among the victims.

Being "well oriented in it" a good point too, especially when the perps MO is video game levels with well known maps.