Randy Brown on Amazon forum.

I was reading through this and thought it might be interesting for others to read. Mainly it is views on Columbine books.

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" As a Columbine parent, I find this book repulsive, for
the main reason that it rewrites the Columbine tragedy.
The author doesn't owe me anything, even though I
was interviewed for the book. The author owes the public
an attempt to tell the true story about Columbine, not an
agenda influenced version based on the stories of two
policemen and some incomplete research.
I am disgusted, discouraged, and disappointed... and sorry
that this book fails the people of Columbine in so many
ways.
I am mostly sad that some reader will read it in 3
years or 25 years, and think that this is the truth.
They will be very wrong"

Every time I read that, I feel like Randy wrote it, speaking by everyone who think the same like us and many others. Is really frustrating how there is always someone trying to make money or 5 minutes of fame, with such a case like this. I thought that iit only was happening in an old case that I am investigating too, but I see that this happen everywhere, except that with this one, there are lots of people that can deny what Cullen wrote and write the very true story of Columbine, to not repeat it again and again like the last years.

Actually, I find Cullen's book very persuasive, and I say this as someone who has read the 11K twice.

He gets the Brenda Parker thing wrong, but he is right about everything else.

Reading through Randy Brown's Amazon replies, it seems to me that he is the one that is wrong. Clearly, Eric and Dylan had severe mental and personality issues. The tragedy was not only caused by bullying or the failure of school administrators.

If bullying and bad administrators were the cause of such events, they would happen much more often.

Randy Brown just has an axe to grind, and he's angry that Cullen doesn't share it.

lasttrain wrote:

Actually, I find Cullen's book very persuasive, and I say this as someone who has read the 11K twice.

He gets the Brenda Parker thing wrong, but he is right about everything else.

Reading through Randy Brown's Amazon replies, it seems to me that he is the one that is wrong.  Clearly, Eric and Dylan had severe mental and personality issues.  The tragedy was not only caused by bullying or the failure of school administrators.  

If bullying and bad administrators were the cause of such events, they would happen much more often.

Randy Brown just has an axe to grind, and he's angry that Cullen doesn't share it.

Were you being sarcastic with this response or do you really believe Cullen's BS? I only ask because I know a lot of people tend to be very sarcastic when it comes to Cullen.

lasttrain wrote:

Actually, I find Cullen's book very persuasive, and I say this as someone who has read the 11K twice.

He gets the Brenda Parker thing wrong, but he is right about everything else.

Reading through Randy Brown's Amazon replies, it seems to me that he is the one that is wrong.  Clearly, Eric and Dylan had severe mental and personality issues.  The tragedy was not only caused by bullying or the failure of school administrators.  

If bullying and bad administrators were the cause of such events, they would happen much more often.

Randy Brown just has an axe to grind, and he's angry that Cullen doesn't share it.

I think you need to take another look through the 11K.   

Jenn wrote:

lasttrain wrote:

Actually, I find Cullen's book very persuasive, and I say this as someone who has read the 11K twice.

He gets the Brenda Parker thing wrong, but he is right about everything else.

Reading through Randy Brown's Amazon replies, it seems to me that he is the one that is wrong.  Clearly, Eric and Dylan had severe mental and personality issues.  The tragedy was not only caused by bullying or the failure of school administrators.  

If bullying and bad administrators were the cause of such events, they would happen much more often.

Randy Brown just has an axe to grind, and he's angry that Cullen doesn't share it.

Were you being sarcastic with this response or do you really believe Cullen's BS? I only ask because I know a lot of people tend to be very sarcastic when it comes to Cullen.

No, I believe that Cullen's account is substantially true. I've read most, if not all, of the criticisms of it on here, but I haven't found many that successfully refute Cullen, or even accurately represent his arguments.

lasttrain wrote:

Actually, I find Cullen's book very persuasive, and I say this as someone who has read the 11K twice.

He gets the Brenda Parker thing wrong, but he is right about everything else.

Reading through Randy Brown's Amazon replies, it seems to me that he is the one that is wrong.  Clearly, Eric and Dylan had severe mental and personality issues.  The tragedy was not only caused by bullying or the failure of school administrators.  

If bullying and bad administrators were the cause of such events, they would happen much more often.

Randy Brown just has an axe to grind, and he's angry that Cullen doesn't share it.

You know Lasttrain, I understand a bit your point and Cullen's point, but the thing is that this point is not so accurate like you think. First of all, Cullen just cant come with a book and say that is the "true" story, because even after 15 years later, many people is still trying to find the answers that will come with the true story and many of them, met the victims or Eric and Dylan. And he just cant come and say that bullying wasnt the problem, if in many cases of young mass murderers, with mental problems, they were exposed to social problems first, where they after came to a point of hate everyone and desire to kill everyone. You should read about other cases, where the killers became killers for violence situations in their homes or schools, and many mass murderers for the bullying situation. Now, you also said that he got 95% right, so you mean that you believe in the theory about that Eric was the leader and Dylan the follower when he was the first of both to mentioned a rampage in his journal?, if he is the follower, it doesnt make sense then and now Cullen just have 85% right (if not less). You are right when you say that bullying or the failure of school administrators were not the only caused, but it could start everything, bringing other kind of problems and what did that Eric and Dylan became what they became. Randy Brown like his son and wife, were people that met Eric, that had a problem with him, so he lived all that situation very close, he also met Dylan, Brooks was Dylan's friend since childhood, so he is a man that not only investigated like all of us, but also lived what happened like any of us and Cullen didnt. Cullen should be more opened minded, investigate more and even read the 11k three times like you have to do too because it seems that read it only twice, didnt work at all.

Mj2beat wrote:

And he just cant come and say that bullying wasnt the problem, if in many cases of young mass murderers, with mental problems, they were exposed to social problems first, where they after came to a point of hate everyone and desire to kill everyone. You should read about other cases, where the killers became killers for violence situations in their homes or schools, and many mass murderers for the bullying situation.

You are right when you say that bullying or the failure of school administrators were not the only caused, but it could start everything, bringing other kind of problems and what did that Eric and Dylan became what they became.

I don't believe bullying was the cause of Columbine. Eric and Dylan did not target bullies in the shooting. When explaining their own motivations, they did not cite revenge for bullying as a primary cause, though Eric did mention teasing in two journal entries. In the 11K, 17 people, including Robyn Anderson, say they never saw Eric or Dylan harassed. 20 or so say they saw them picked on for their clothes, while others mention that the harassment was "mild" (only one says it was "relentless").

By contrast, 28 people, including Chris Morris (8897) and Devon Adams (10616), say that Harris and Klebold bullied others. Chris Morris said they started fights with others, and Seth Biggi and Gary Reininger said that they started fights with jocks. Eric and Dylan were self-admitted bullies, and a lot of the teasing and bullying they received may have been in retaliation for what they were dishing out.

I have one reservation about the point I am making above, though. I think it is possible that the jocks throwing ketchup or tampons may have been the first inspiration for Columbine. It may have been what originally inspired them to plant the bomb in the commons (i.e. to get revenge on the site of their humiliation). If that is true, then Cullen is wrong and so am I. However, that cannot be proved.

Mj2beat wrote:

Now, you also said that he got 95% right, so you mean that you believe in the theory about that Eric was the leader and Dylan the follower when he was the first of both to mentioned a rampage in his journal?, if he is the follower, it doesnt make sense then and now Cullen just have 85% right (if not less).

1) Harris's writings focus exclusively on their plans, while Klebold writes about his depression. Harris's writings focus on logistics; Klebold's on his lovesickness for girls. Harris usually writes about the event using the first-person singular; Klebold uses the plural i.e. "go NBK with Reb (gawd)." There are exceptions to all of these statements but they hold true for 90% of the writings.

2) Their clandestine behavior is harder to interpret because we know less about it, but Harris reports endless involvement in the acquisition of guns and the creation of explosive devices while Klebold reports little. We do know Klebold was involved but on balance I believe the evidence shows Harris was the leader.

3) Many people are on record saying Dylan is a follower. Sue Klebold, Brooks Brown, and Jon Ungerland (took classes with both of them) have all reported he was a follower in books or in the media. in the 11K, Devon Adams, Nick Baumgart, Tyler Chenoweth, Katelyn Place, Steven Trujillo, Leslie Burns, Brett O'Neal, and Roison McEwen all report that Dylan was the follower. This is pretty conclusive evidence from a wide variety of people.

4) Their behavior during the event itself suggests that Eric took the lead. While we cannot be clear on certain parts of the chronology or ballistics, Harris murdered 7 people independently, while Klebold murdered two (three if you include Lauren Townsend, who was mostly injured by Klebold). Most of the people Klebold shot were people Harris had already shot (such as Lance Kirklin), suggesting to me that Klebold hesitated.

Harris fired far more shots outside during the beginning, by a dramatic factor. When Dylan goes into the cafeteria by himself he doesn't hit anyone, despite the fact that dozens of students are crammed on the stairs only yards away, nor does he fire on Sean Graves. The only person he does shoot is someone Eric has already shot. Ann Marie Hochhalter also testifies that Eric is barking orders at Dylan during this period. While the exact chronology is clear, it also appears that Dylan flees inside before Gardner engages. Dylan causes no fatal injuries in the hallway despite the fact that people are running around everywhere and many report seeing him "chasing students."

Before the entrance of the pair into the library, Lisa Kreutz reports one of the voices saying "We're still gonna do this right?" This is Eric saying this to Dylan, because Dylan has fired his gun only a few times and has not hit many people. In response to Eric's chastisement, I believe Klebold immediately came in and murdered Kyle Velasquez in order to show Harris he was "still going to do this." This begins a period of mania on the part of Klebold. On balance, however, Harris murders more people, while Klebold is far more involved in taunting. While Klebold is taunting Isaiah Shoels, Harris abruptly murders Shoels, as if to put an end to the taunting. As Klebold taunts Evan Todd, Harris refuses to engage or respond because Harris has begun to experience a sense of urgency about the bombs. In the "wandering" time, I believe their activities were dictated by Harris. Their activities were focused on the bombs, which were mostly Harris's fantasy.

Mj2beat wrote:

" As a Columbine parent, I find this book repulsive, for
the main reason that it rewrites the Columbine tragedy.
The author doesn't owe me anything, even though I
was interviewed for the book. The author owes the public
an attempt to tell the true story about Columbine, not an
agenda influenced version based on the stories of two
policemen and some incomplete research.
I am disgusted, discouraged, and disappointed... and sorry
that this book fails the people of Columbine in so many
ways.
I am mostly sad that some reader will read it in 3
years or 25 years, and think that this is the truth.
They will be very wrong"

My mom took from my shelf and read Cullen's 'Columbine' some time ago cause she wanted to get know something about my 'interests'. xD How ironic, she believed in every single word of it and even hasn't explore any other sources in the case except the basic ones, she stubbornly claims that Eric was a psychopath blah blah blah, and I can't persuade her that it was different than in the book. Aaarrrrghhh these moms.

rigormortis wrote:

Mj2beat wrote:

" As a Columbine parent, I find this book repulsive, for
the main reason that it rewrites the Columbine tragedy.
The author doesn't owe me anything, even though I
was interviewed for the book. The author owes the public
an attempt to tell the true story about Columbine, not an
agenda influenced version based on the stories of two
policemen and some incomplete research.
I am disgusted, discouraged, and disappointed... and sorry
that this book fails the people of Columbine in so many
ways.
I am mostly sad that some reader will read it in 3
years or 25 years, and think that this is the truth.
They will be very wrong"

My mom took from my shelf and read Cullen's 'Columbine' some time ago cause she wanted to get know something about my 'interests'. xD How ironic, she believed in every single word of it and even hasn't explore any other sources in the case except the basic ones, she stubbornly claims that Eric was a psychopath blah blah blah, and I can't persuade her that it was different than in the book. Aaarrrrghhh these moms.

I become livid when I walk into a book store and see Cullen's book instead of No Easy Answers or Jeff Kass' book. Not gonna lie, I sometimes impulsively move Cullen's book into the "Fiction" section.