Ammunition

We all know that ammunition was running low at the end. Dylan had a bullet in his boot, which in my opinion suggests that he was at least mildly concerned with potentially running out of ammo...and also is indicative of his dedication to completing his suicide, no matter what.

But I can't help but wonder what effect the ammo had on their massacre: Would they have kept going for hours, if they had the bullets? There were plenty of students locked in classrooms, they could've shot their way in.
Or, were they tiring of murder? Were they wasting bullets by shooting lockers and ceiling tiles, intentionally, to run out of ammo? Or, were they still having a blast, but wary of taking on the SWAT team with limited firepower?

Just curious as to everyone's thoughts on this.

Shooting starts, the boys are running on a wave of adrenaline, numbing their emotions. In the library, Eric breaks his nose, the pain most likely snapping him out of this numbness. The boys then wander aimlessly around the school, shooting at inanimate objects until they go back to the library to kill themselves. Had nothing to do with ammunition.

And I reckon they died feeling guilty as hell about what they had done.

I think they were worn out, bored and pretty disappointed in how things turned out. I don't know about guilt, as Juicy Jazzy suggested. It seems to me that if you have been contemplating killing all these people for over a year, you have probably transcended guilt related to killing people.

I have often wondered why they didn't attempt to set the school on fire. I realize the sprinklers and alarms were going off, but I still think they could have done some damage with that.

Wideawake wrote:

I think they were worn out, bored and pretty disappointed in how things turned out. I don't know about guilt, as Juicy Jazzy suggested. It seems to me that if you have been contemplating killing all these people for over a year, you have probably transcended guilt related to killing people.

I have often wondered why they didn't attempt to set the school on fire. I realize the sprinklers and alarms were going off, but I still think they could have done some damage with that.

Yeah they probably were pretty disappointed since none of their bombs went off and didn't kill nearly as many people as they hoped for.

Maybe they used hollowpoints for extended damage. Anyone?

One of the best posts in the history of the board is on this subject.

mattmatthew1337 wrote:

I think it is likely that lack of ammunition contributed to them offing themselves when they did.
Eric had expended 10 of his 12x10 round clips. He was found with only 2 clips in his pocket with one having 10x9mm rounds and the other having 8x9mm rounds. Eric was found with 14 shotgun shells in 5 green pouches attached to black shoulder straps, and he had another green pouch in his left pocket containing 10 shotgun shells. 1 more shotgun shell was unfired in the internal magazine of his pump action shotgun. Dylan left a 36 round magazine in his car (loaded with 34 rounds), his 50 round magazine was dropped outside possibly because of malfunction (it was found with 40 rounds in it), and he had just about emptied a 36 round magazine which malfunctioned in the hallway. His final 24 round magazine was found with 3 rounds in it, there was a round in the Tec-9 chamber which meant before he shot himself Dylan had a total of 5x9mm rounds left. Dylan was found with 14 shotgun shells in his black nylon belt, and a green pouch found near the entrance to the library in the hallway contained 7 shotgun shells (this would have been worn around Dylan's right shin as it can be seen in the cafateria footage. Dylan was found with 7 crickets and 1 pipebomb in his pocket while Eric had 5 crickets in his pocket. A further 5 crickets were found on the floor near their bodies. So here is the total ammunition that they had available unfired which they could have used:

Eric: 18x9mm rounds
      23x12 ga shotgun shells
Dylan: 5x9mm rounds
         14x12 ga shotgun shells
Both: 17 crickets, 1 pipebomb

While they both had an adequate amount of shotgun shells remaining, their shotguns were the secondary weapons and they could not hope to engage any SWAT with shotguns as it takes time to reload them. Their primary semi-automatic weapons were very low on ammunition. I think multiple reasons contributed to their suicide. 1.) Their cafateria bombs had failed to detonate and their master plan failed. 2.) They failed to initiate a detonation even after shooting the tanks and throwing a molotov cocktail at it. 3.) their car bombs failed to go off creating the casualties they wanted to cause. 4.) Eric had his nose broken which would have been hurting him by this point. 5.) They would have witnessed hundreds of police outside their windows showing the gravity of what had occurred and the impossible force they now would have to face. 6.) When they returned to the library possibly to continue the massacre, everyone was gone, and it appeared a majority in the school had already fled. 7.) after 40+ minutes their adrenaline would have worn down, they would have experienced a crash 8.) they were low on ammunition at this point, they might have heard SWAT approaching from their gunfire shooting out locked doors and searching them.

For the two of them, being taken alive was not an option. With them probably feeling depressed from their main plan failing, only small numbers of kids left to shoot, hundreds of police outside, low ammunition, adrenaline drop and the prospect of being captured alive, they probably felt that the alone time they had in the library was the best time to off themselves.

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One thing I want to note from that post is look at just how much Dylan shortchanged himself. He really just declined to bring in adequate ammunition to do what they'd planned.

lasttrain wrote:

One thing I want to note from that post is look at just how much Dylan shortchanged himself.  He really just declined to bring in adequate ammunition to do what they'd planned.

The malfunctions though. 40 rounds left in the magazine dropped outside, that's a lot of ammo. Which is all to the good for those people who weren't intent on committing a massacre that day, but not for E&D. I have always thought that the issues with Dylan's gun misfiring is one of the reasons that he had less kills and fired less rounds than Eric, not because he was just following Eric's lead.

Wideawake, you raise a valid point, but here's another perspective.

First, do we know for sure the clip outside malfunctioned?

The clip outside is listed as CBI 213/JCSO 2358 [50 Round Magazine with 40 Rounds].

However, the clip he abandoned in the hallway is listed as CBI 30/JCSO 1859 [Broken Magazine and Frame/Spring].

So, JCSO did record the condition of abandoned ammo, but they list nothing for the one outside, suggesting that it was in working order.

CBI 213/JCSO 2358 [50 Round Magazine with 40 Rounds] - One large, double stacked, metal magazine, 50 round capacity plus 40 live rounds of 9 mm Luger caliber ammunition.

As far as I know, the 50 round magazine outside was fully functional. It was dropped or came loose near the top of stairs on the grassy hill. There are no reports of it being malfunctional.

012201 - CBI 23/JCSO 903 (IntraTec 9 mm Luger caliber pistol) was test fired using the magazine from CBI 34/JCSO 1093 with laboratory ammunition and this pistol was also test fired using the magazine from item CBI 213/JCSO 2358 and test firing three of the live rounds from item #213. This firearm did function as designed during the test firings.

lasttrain and sororityalpha, you are correct. It doesn't say anywhere that the 50 round magazine malfunctioned. That was an assumption on my part and you know what happens when you assume.  

As far as the gun itself, I have always heard that this particular firearm (the Tec 9) misfires frequently and is, forgive the technical jargon, a pretty shit weapon. Doesn't that depend on the ammo as well though? My knowledge of guns is very limited.

I have a Tec-9 DC (He used the AB model same weapon just no heat guard and a few other small modifications). I have a 50rd Magazine for it and I can't get more than 5 rounds through t without it jamming. I have not tried using a 32 round one yet, but in my opinion it is a P.O.S, just looks cool and you can have a ton of ammo (which may cause it to jam).

Wideawake wrote:

lasttrain and sororityalpha, you are correct. It doesn't say anywhere that the 50 round magazine malfunctioned. That was an assumption on my part and you know what happens when you assume.  

As far as the gun itself, I have always heard that this particular firearm (the Tec 9) misfires frequently and is, forgive the technical jargon, a pretty shit weapon. Doesn't that depend on the ammo as well though? My knowledge of guns is very limited.

The manual claims that it will reliably feed standard FMJ rounds, but this is total humbug. The entire TEC-9 line is garbage, and the fact that Dylan was armed with such a shoddy weapon probably saved lives. I shudder to think what he could have done with something like a Glock 17.