I want to show this journal page to anyone saying Eric and Dylan were same

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This is from Eric Harris journal, towards the end.

I've read many times people saying that Eric and Dylan were both the same kind of personality and needed each other to be violent. Comparing Eric and Dylans journals is like night and day, and I think this page shows it best. Eric was an actual psychopath consumed by ultra-violent fantasies, while Dylan would have killed himself even before 4/20/99 if Eric hadnt convinced him to help with his plan. I know that Dylan mentioned NBK first, but like the rest of his journal its just disordered angry suicidal thoughts without any deeper sophisticated plan behind it.

Dylan wanted to die and didnt care if he took some peoples lives with him, Eric wanted to kill and didnt care if he died.

I don't mean to say this as if Dylan was this sad, depressed boy who got brainwashed - no, he was happy and insulting the victims. It was his own choice to become a mass-murderer, but I believe without Eric in his life Dylan would have only killed himself or maybe some particularly bad bully/girl he couldnt get. He himself didnt have these thoughts of massive destruction, killing hundreds, that came from Eric. And I also believe Eric wouldnt have done it alone, at least not that year. He would have probably worked a few years and planned a bigger attack, tested all his bombs somewhere in the wildneress and got better weapons. I can't see his kind of personality type leading a normal life, everything enraged him. He had so many public violent outbursts, unlike Dylan who kept it all inside.

Max2024 wrote:

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This is from Eric Harris journal, towards the end.

I've read many times people saying that Eric and Dylan were both the same kind of personality and needed each other to be violent. Comparing Eric and Dylans journals is like night and day, and I think this page shows it best. Eric was an actual psychopath consumed by ultra-violent fantasies, while Dylan would have killed himself even before 4/20/99 if Eric hadnt convinced him to help with his plan. I know that Dylan mentioned NBK first, but like the rest of his journal its just disordered angry suicidal thoughts without any deeper sophisticated plan behind it.

Dylan wanted to die and didnt care if he took some peoples lives with him, Eric wanted to kill and didnt care if he died.

I don't mean to say this as if Dylan was this sad, depressed boy who got brainwashed - no, he was happy and insulting the victims. It was his own choice to become a mass-murderer, but I believe without Eric in his life Dylan would have only killed himself or maybe some particularly bad bully/girl he couldnt get. He himself didnt have these thoughts of massive destruction, killing hundreds, that came from Eric. And I also believe Eric wouldnt have done it alone, at least not that year. He would have probably worked a few years and planned a bigger attack, tested all his bombs somewhere in the wildneress and got better weapons. I can't see his kind of personality type leading a normal life, everything enraged him. He had so many public violent outbursts, unlike Dylan who kept it all inside.

This is so surface-level, like something Gayve or a normie would say. Eric wasn't a psychopath. The plan was Dylan's idea and Eric was his 3rd choice for it. Not that Eric needed any convincing. Dylan didn't even like Eric as much as people think. He just needed a relatable partner.

glockxavier wrote:

Max2024 wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

This is from Eric Harris journal, towards the end.

I've read many times people saying that Eric and Dylan were both the same kind of personality and needed each other to be violent. Comparing Eric and Dylans journals is like night and day, and I think this page shows it best. Eric was an actual psychopath consumed by ultra-violent fantasies, while Dylan would have killed himself even before 4/20/99 if Eric hadnt convinced him to help with his plan. I know that Dylan mentioned NBK first, but like the rest of his journal its just disordered angry suicidal thoughts without any deeper sophisticated plan behind it.

Dylan wanted to die and didnt care if he took some peoples lives with him, Eric wanted to kill and didnt care if he died.

I don't mean to say this as if Dylan was this sad, depressed boy who got brainwashed - no, he was happy and insulting the victims. It was his own choice to become a mass-murderer, but I believe without Eric in his life Dylan would have only killed himself or maybe some particularly bad bully/girl he couldnt get. He himself didnt have these thoughts of massive destruction, killing hundreds, that came from Eric. And I also believe Eric wouldnt have done it alone, at least not that year. He would have probably worked a few years and planned a bigger attack, tested all his bombs somewhere in the wildneress and got better weapons. I can't see his kind of personality type leading a normal life, everything enraged him. He had so many public violent outbursts, unlike Dylan who kept it all inside.

This is so surface-level, like something Gayve or a normie would say. Eric wasn't a psychopath. The plan was Dylan's idea and Eric was his 3rd choice for it. Not that Eric needed any convincing. Dylan didn't even like Eric as much as people think. He just needed a relatable partner.

Then explain why Dylan wrote barely anything about it? Almost all the actual quotes about bombing, mass murder, starting the revolution, thats in Erics journal. Dylan even wrote a goodbye message, he wanted to kill himself months before the shooting and then wrote "maybe NBK with Eric is the solution".

i'm too high rn so please forgive me for the length of this lmao

Max2024 wrote:

I've read many times people saying that Eric and Dylan were both the same kind of personality and needed each other to be violent. Comparing Eric and Dylans journals is like night and day, and I think this page shows it best. Eric was an actual psychopath consumed by ultra-violent fantasies, while Dylan would have killed himself even before 4/20/99 if Eric hadnt convinced him to help with his plan. I know that Dylan mentioned NBK first, but like the rest of his journal its just disordered angry suicidal thoughts without any deeper sophisticated plan behind it.

I really believe they were both the same at the core. I also believe they both naturally complimented each other in their styles of thinking and planning - you should look into the descriptions given to them in different personality typing systems (MBTI, socionics etc.) They meshed perfectly but it made zero sense to anyone else around them.

Interestingly, Dylan's types suggest he was filled with inertia and insecurity. His journal was just angry suicidal thoughts because he couldn't see a way to escape the pain he felt. There was no structure to it other than imagined terms he created to visualise issues in his life - halcyons etc. But Dylan behaved violently at times, he could be angry for no reason, he was awkward and passive-aggressive about it, he felt irritable about being left out, he cut himself repeatedly, he threatened his teachers, he hacked into school computers and broke into lockers, he brought a bomb to work, he broke into a van and was the one who broke the window and stole the equipment, not Eric. He then blamed Eric for the incident, and seemed completely unable/unwilling to empathise with the van owner or understand the potential severity of the crime, whereas Eric was able to, even if it was only an act for him. He bullied girls in class and bullied a disabled kid by threatening him until he became suicidal. You said yourself that you know Dylan mentioned NBK first, so why does it later become 'Eric's plan' to you? Dylan was the first one to write about hurting others.

Dylan desperately needed someone to pull him out of his depression and chronic inertia and make him work. He needed some positive encouragement in his life, he needed social interaction, he desperately needed to feel understood. Therapy ideally. Instead, he got Eric, someone who thought the same way but could make things happen. Dylan knew how to channel his rage because all he ever did was think about how miserable he was and what was making him miserable. Eric was scattered and all over the place with his anger. Every other sentence in his journal is 'you know what I hate?'. Everything pissed him off and he acted out more openly because he didn't know where to focus all that rage. I believe Dylan suggested and came up with the concept for NBK, slowly pushed Eric to channel that rage over time, and then Eric executed the planning process. Think of it this way - if someone had the idea to kill all the people who hurt them, to get revenge, to eliminate the 'zombies', why would they not discuss it with the angry kid who comes from a military family and has an obsession with bombs and guns?

I'm not sure I believe Eric was an 'actual psychopath'. It's an incredibly complex and honestly outdated term - feels like it's just a label given to people who behave antisocially lmao. Read through his entire journal, not just that one screenshot, and you'll spot the ongoing theme of him having too many feelings rather than a lack of them. He was fighting an invisible army in every journal entry concerning his ethical beliefs. He was obviously insecure and angry that he was being left out. His writings suggest he was struggling with his identity and knowing what he actually wanted - he writes about how hard it was to move so many times, how much he missed his friends he left behind, how he hated the way he looked and wished people wouldn't reject him. He wrote A LOT about his ethical beliefs and principles, how he felt others 'should behave.' He wrote about saving his childhood friend when they both got injured and how he was in pain himself (and needed stitches) but rode his bike for miles to get help regardless. That, to me, feels like empathy, which I actually think he possessed a lot of - he seemed to champion the underdog in a way and didn't like the way people treated others. Then he follows it up with these whiny, testosterone-fueled rants about how he hates everyone and all races should die and he's such a big macho guy that is better than everyone else, but then what? He posted some threats online, he broke a windshield. He was reckless and almost wanted to be caught with the way he did things. He blew his bombs up in fields, played destructive pranks which he pretended were 'missions' and messed around with fireworks. Maybe he would've continued being violent even without Dylan, maybe he would have done it without Dylan, but to me it feels like Eric was just a traumatised kid going through puberty. He got promoted at Blackjack in April 99, so perhaps if the shooting never happened he would've saved some money, moved away and mellowed out in his 20's. He had some serious identity issues but I never got the vibe that Eric was some hyper-intelligent calculated psycho who was going to do it with or without Dylan. He needed to regain a sense of community and identity by getting the hell out of Littleton and finding people who thought as deeply as he did but without the anger. I think there are very few people in the world who are beyond hope, Eric didn't seem like one of them.

Max2024 wrote:

Dylan wanted to die and didnt care if he took some peoples lives with him, Eric wanted to kill and didnt care if he died.

I don't mean to say this as if Dylan was this sad, depressed boy who got brainwashed - no, he was happy and insulting the victims. It was his own choice to become a mass-murderer, but I believe without Eric in his life Dylan would have only killed himself or maybe some particularly bad bully/girl he couldnt get. He himself didnt have these thoughts of massive destruction, killing hundreds, that came from Eric. And I also believe Eric wouldnt have done it alone, at least not that year. He would have probably worked a few years and planned a bigger attack, tested all his bombs somewhere in the wildneress and got better weapons. I can't see his kind of personality type leading a normal life, everything enraged him. He had so many public violent outbursts, unlike Dylan who kept it all inside.

The first quote is wrong. They both actively wanted to kill people and then commit suicide. Eric was obsessed with the idea of being 'godlike' and being remembered, having 'followers' etc. He seemed to be insistent on leaving a legacy of some sort. It's pretty hard to commit suicide unless you're 100% committed to that idea, your instincts usually pull you back at the last moment. He was deeply depressed and unhappy and went into school that day intending to die, just as Dylan did. Dylan, as you said, seemed to be having a great time killing people by witness accounts, laughing and shouting, whereas Eric seemed more serious about it - you could argue that Dylan was the one who really wanted to kill and Eric was just acting out the plan until it was time to die.

Dylan kept it all inside until he was 17 years old. That's not a long time to keep in anger that probably only really started becoming a problem for him in the few years before his death. Dylan was capable of controlling himself outwardly in a way that Eric wasn't, likely because he was more in touch with the potential consequences of revealing his hurt to others. He invented his own kind of language in his journals, he was completely disconnected from reality and lived in a fantasy world with his imaginary possible girlfriend, who was alike him in every way and would agree to shoot his bullies and then die poetically so that they could be together in the stars or whatever. He was wrapped up in that, he wasn't as easily riled up as Eric because he wasn't fully present. You need to stop looking at how others described them, and start really looking at how they described themselves. It's always funny to me how the image they were both trying to present turned out to be the complete opposite.

distant99 wrote:

i'm too high rn so please forgive me for the length of this lmao

Max2024 wrote:

I've read many times people saying that Eric and Dylan were both the same kind of personality and needed each other to be violent. Comparing Eric and Dylans journals is like night and day, and I think this page shows it best. Eric was an actual psychopath consumed by ultra-violent fantasies, while Dylan would have killed himself even before 4/20/99 if Eric hadnt convinced him to help with his plan. I know that Dylan mentioned NBK first, but like the rest of his journal its just disordered angry suicidal thoughts without any deeper sophisticated plan behind it.

I really believe they were both the same at the core. I also believe they both naturally complimented each other in their styles of thinking and planning - you should look into the descriptions given to them in different personality typing systems (MBTI, socionics etc.) They meshed perfectly but it made zero sense to anyone else around them.

Interestingly, Dylan's types suggest he was filled with inertia and insecurity. His journal was just angry suicidal thoughts because he couldn't see a way to escape the pain he felt. There was no structure to it other than imagined terms he created to visualise issues in his life - halcyons etc. But Dylan behaved violently at times, he could be angry for no reason, he was awkward and passive-aggressive about it, he felt irritable about being left out, he cut himself repeatedly, he threatened his teachers, he hacked into school computers and broke into lockers, he brought a bomb to work, he broke into a van and was the one who broke the window and stole the equipment, not Eric. He then blamed Eric for the incident, and seemed completely unable/unwilling to empathise with the van owner or understand the potential severity of the crime, whereas Eric was able to, even if it was only an act for him. He bullied girls in class and bullied a disabled kid by threatening him until he became suicidal. You said yourself that you know Dylan mentioned NBK first, so why does it later become 'Eric's plan' to you? Dylan was the first one to write about hurting others.

Dylan desperately needed someone to pull him out of his depression and chronic inertia and make him work. He needed some positive encouragement in his life, he needed social interaction, he desperately needed to feel understood. Therapy ideally. Instead, he got Eric, someone who thought the same way but could make things happen. Dylan knew how to channel his rage because all he ever did was think about how miserable he was and what was making him miserable. Eric was scattered and all over the place with his anger. Every other sentence in his journal is 'you know what I hate?'. Everything pissed him off and he acted out more openly because he didn't know where to focus all that rage. I believe Dylan suggested and came up with the concept for NBK, slowly pushed Eric to channel that rage over time, and then Eric executed the planning process. Think of it this way - if someone had the idea to kill all the people who hurt them, to get revenge, to eliminate the 'zombies', why would they not discuss it with the angry kid who comes from a military family and has an obsession with bombs and guns?

I'm not sure I believe Eric was an 'actual psychopath'. It's an incredibly complex and honestly outdated term - feels like it's just a label given to people who behave antisocially lmao. Read through his entire journal, not just that one screenshot, and you'll spot the ongoing theme of him having too many feelings rather than a lack of them. He was fighting an invisible army in every journal entry concerning his ethical beliefs. He was obviously insecure and angry that he was being left out. His writings suggest he was struggling with his identity and knowing what he actually wanted - he writes about how hard it was to move so many times, how much he missed his friends he left behind, how he hated the way he looked and wished people wouldn't reject him. He wrote A LOT about his ethical beliefs and principles, how he felt others 'should behave.' He wrote about saving his childhood friend when they both got injured and how he was in pain himself (and needed stitches) but rode his bike for miles to get help regardless. That, to me, feels like empathy, which I actually think he possessed a lot of - he seemed to champion the underdog in a way and didn't like the way people treated others. Then he follows it up with these whiny, testosterone-fueled rants about how he hates everyone and all races should die and he's such a big macho guy that is better than everyone else, but then what? He posted some threats online, he broke a windshield. He was reckless and almost wanted to be caught with the way he did things. He blew his bombs up in fields, played destructive pranks which he pretended were 'missions' and messed around with fireworks. Maybe he would've continued being violent even without Dylan, maybe he would have done it without Dylan, but to me it feels like Eric was just a traumatised kid going through puberty. He got promoted at Blackjack in April 99, so perhaps if the shooting never happened he would've saved some money, moved away and mellowed out in his 20's. He had some serious identity issues but I never got the vibe that Eric was some hyper-intelligent calculated psycho who was going to do it with or without Dylan. He needed to regain a sense of community and identity by getting the hell out of Littleton and finding people who thought as deeply as he did but without the anger. I think there are very few people in the world who are beyond hope, Eric didn't seem like one of them.

Max2024 wrote:

Dylan wanted to die and didnt care if he took some peoples lives with him, Eric wanted to kill and didnt care if he died.

I don't mean to say this as if Dylan was this sad, depressed boy who got brainwashed - no, he was happy and insulting the victims. It was his own choice to become a mass-murderer, but I believe without Eric in his life Dylan would have only killed himself or maybe some particularly bad bully/girl he couldnt get. He himself didnt have these thoughts of massive destruction, killing hundreds, that came from Eric. And I also believe Eric wouldnt have done it alone, at least not that year. He would have probably worked a few years and planned a bigger attack, tested all his bombs somewhere in the wildneress and got better weapons. I can't see his kind of personality type leading a normal life, everything enraged him. He had so many public violent outbursts, unlike Dylan who kept it all inside.

The first quote is wrong. They both actively wanted to kill people and then commit suicide. Eric was obsessed with the idea of being 'godlike' and being remembered, having 'followers' etc. He seemed to be insistent on leaving a legacy of some sort. It's pretty hard to commit suicide unless you're 100% committed to that idea, your instincts usually pull you back at the last moment. He was deeply depressed and unhappy and went into school that day intending to die, just as Dylan did. Dylan, as you said, seemed to be having a great time killing people by witness accounts, laughing and shouting, whereas Eric seemed more serious about it - you could argue that Dylan was the one who really wanted to kill and Eric was just acting out the plan until it was time to die.

Dylan kept it all inside until he was 17 years old. That's not a long time to keep in anger that probably only really started becoming a problem for him in the few years before his death. Dylan was capable of controlling himself outwardly in a way that Eric wasn't, likely because he was more in touch with the potential consequences of revealing his hurt to others. He invented his own kind of language in his journals, he was completely disconnected from reality and lived in a fantasy world with his imaginary possible girlfriend, who was alike him in every way and would agree to shoot his bullies and then die poetically so that they could be together in the stars or whatever. He was wrapped up in that, he wasn't as easily riled up as Eric because he wasn't fully present. You need to stop looking at how others described them, and start really looking at how they described themselves. It's always funny to me how the image they were both trying to present turned out to be the complete opposite.

I appreciate this very detailed answer! You compelled me to read through both their journals again and research into Dylans bullying of others, I must admit I somehow have either forgotten this or didnt know about it. He behaved really fucked up even long before the shooting, and from the compilation I found on reddit it can be concluded he acted more aggressive than Eric in reality while Eric wrote more aggressive...and actions are more important than words of course. Thanks for correcting my opinion on this topic.

Journals themselves are tricky things. Presumably at one point when the plan was fixed they knew they’d be analysed by police if not the public too. They were also quite busy with school and work so wouldn’t have written out every thought in their heads all the time so essentially those times are unaccounted for but that doesn’t mean no thoughts were had. Even in journals people censor themselves in case of someone finding it. So they are a record and an important one but they aren’t everything all of the time. So they’re both an important piece of their minds and incomplete by default.

Max2024 wrote:

glockxavier wrote:

Max2024 wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

This is from Eric Harris journal, towards the end.

I've read many times people saying that Eric and Dylan were both the same kind of personality and needed each other to be violent. Comparing Eric and Dylans journals is like night and day, and I think this page shows it best. Eric was an actual psychopath consumed by ultra-violent fantasies, while Dylan would have killed himself even before 4/20/99 if Eric hadnt convinced him to help with his plan. I know that Dylan mentioned NBK first, but like the rest of his journal its just disordered angry suicidal thoughts without any deeper sophisticated plan behind it.

Dylan wanted to die and didnt care if he took some peoples lives with him, Eric wanted to kill and didnt care if he died.

I don't mean to say this as if Dylan was this sad, depressed boy who got brainwashed - no, he was happy and insulting the victims. It was his own choice to become a mass-murderer, but I believe without Eric in his life Dylan would have only killed himself or maybe some particularly bad bully/girl he couldnt get. He himself didnt have these thoughts of massive destruction, killing hundreds, that came from Eric. And I also believe Eric wouldnt have done it alone, at least not that year. He would have probably worked a few years and planned a bigger attack, tested all his bombs somewhere in the wildneress and got better weapons. I can't see his kind of personality type leading a normal life, everything enraged him. He had so many public violent outbursts, unlike Dylan who kept it all inside.

This is so surface-level, like something Gayve or a normie would say. Eric wasn't a psychopath. The plan was Dylan's idea and Eric was his 3rd choice for it. Not that Eric needed any convincing. Dylan didn't even like Eric as much as people think. He just needed a relatable partner.

Then explain why Dylan wrote barely anything about it? Almost all the actual quotes about bombing, mass murder, starting the revolution, thats in Erics journal. Dylan even wrote a goodbye message, he wanted to kill himself months before the shooting and then wrote "maybe NBK with Eric is the solution".

They had different problems and interests. Why did Dylan need to constantly write about details of the plan? Other shooters/killers didn't. The diaries are so different because Eric was more enthusiastic about political/military themes. Dylan was lazy and didn't care about details. That doesn't mean he wasn't interested in violence and infamy.

Max2024 wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

This is from Eric Harris journal, towards the end.

I've read many times people saying that Eric and Dylan were both the same kind of personality and needed each other to be violent. Comparing Eric and Dylans journals is like night and day, and I think this page shows it best. Eric was an actual psychopath consumed by ultra-violent fantasies, while Dylan would have killed himself even before 4/20/99 if Eric hadnt convinced him to help with his plan. I know that Dylan mentioned NBK first, but like the rest of his journal its just disordered angry suicidal thoughts without any deeper sophisticated plan behind it.

Dylan wanted to die and didnt care if he took some peoples lives with him, Eric wanted to kill and didnt care if he died.

I don't mean to say this as if Dylan was this sad, depressed boy who got brainwashed - no, he was happy and insulting the victims. It was his own choice to become a mass-murderer, but I believe without Eric in his life Dylan would have only killed himself or maybe some particularly bad bully/girl he couldnt get. He himself didnt have these thoughts of massive destruction, killing hundreds, that came from Eric. And I also believe Eric wouldnt have done it alone, at least not that year. He would have probably worked a few years and planned a bigger attack, tested all his bombs somewhere in the wildneress and got better weapons. I can't see his kind of personality type leading a normal life, everything enraged him. He had so many public violent outbursts, unlike Dylan who kept it all inside.

I wonder if Robert Craig influenced them in some way..