Basement Tapes Destroyed

I'm surprised the other videos released didn't dissuade the "godlike" status they had. It makes me see E&D as really normal kids who went astray. Rampart range could even be taken lightly as a bunch of guys playing with guns and saying violent things like they're just playing around. It's only dark now because of what they did.

Just like the picture of Eric in the year book "Eric Harris sits in the cafeteria observing the activity" meh.. but we know they were planning to set bombs off in the cafeteria when the maximum amount of students where having lunch, plus he has NBK on his backpack, it's faint but there. Now it gets REALLY eerie.

The transcripts even sound pretty tame to me. By refusing to release any of these and giving this aura of mystery it does, I agree, cause us to fill in the blanks and wonder what is so bad?

I really want to see the whole "Dude, you're Jewish" thing because both SK and Judy said Dylan looked scared...

I agree. If you knew nothing about Columbine then the videos themselves would seem to most as just normal male teen shenanigans. E&D act very similar to a lot kids that I went to school with, although these people didn't plan and then carry out a mass murder.

By keeping the basement tapes from being made public, Jeffco unintentionally assured that they would always be sought after. People are skeptical and want to see things for themselves, especially since Jeffco proved to be untrustworthy during the investigation.

The Basement Tapes, if released, certainly would not have made people think less of Eric/Dylan.

It would be more like "Look at them being all tough drinking their Jack Daniels. Too bad they decided to do a massacre instead of making a fuck ton of money creating videos on youtube a few years later, making movies, making apps.. anything instead of what they did... wow Dylan has pretty eyes... hmmm" maybe not everyone would think the last part but I threw it in their for good measure, because you know there would be people who thought that. Me, no, not at all. No.

Honestly, we know what they did. 99.9% of us are disgusted by it. The Basement tapes aren't a streaming video of the library murders.

Now if something like that was videotaped and released, THAT would be a game changer.

I don't think the Basement Tapes would cause copycats either... if they were released back then. And maybe even now. There have been so many copycats in the last 18 years that I doubt it would have made a lick of difference. I just think Jeffco dosen't want them released because in it I suspect the boys talk about how many times were missed to stop them and how hopeless Jeffco are and it probably hurts their feelings...

Would anyone agree that no one can really copycat Columbine? You can't recreate the time, the victims and the lore about them.. were they killed because they were Christians, black, because they were just there? Who was asked what? At risk of sounding like a fangirl... you can't recreate Eric and Dylan either. No one will be them, no one will have the friends that they had. They had something about them that was interesting, we are all trying to pick their brains after nearly 20 years. I don't think there will be a school shooting that captures the world like Columbine.

There will always be violence and I agree they probably aren't released because JeffCo feels embarrassed that 2 high schoolers bested them.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Would anyone agree that no one can really copycat Columbine? You can't recreate the time, the victims and the lore about them.. were they killed because they were Christians, black, because they were just there? Who was asked what? At risk of sounding like a fangirl... you can't recreate Eric and Dylan either. No one will be them, no one will have the friends that they had. They had something about them that was interesting, we are all trying to pick their brains after nearly 20 years.  I don't think there will be a school shooting that captures the world like Columbine.

There will always be violence and I agree they probably aren't released because JeffCo feels embarrassed that 2 high schoolers bested them.

I completely agree. 'copycats' is the lamest excuse.

I have said this before, but there are copy cats right now.  Maybe not to the exact details of course but how many shooters or attempted shooters looked up to Eric and Dylan?  How many had read their journals and decided to shoot people?  We had Randy Stair right here under our noses.  He idolized Eric.  He had never seen the tapes but he still did what he did.

The release of the tape wouldn't cause any more copycats than already exist or will exist.  In fact I think for a lot of genuine researchers it would show Eric and Dylan in a much different light.  We could see them being stupid kids using cuss words and pointing guns at each other while they drink Coke and eat Slim Jims....

Maybe they are afraid of humanizing them. Having people realize these were just 2 boys not total monsters....

Lizpuff wrote:

Maybe they are afraid of humanizing them.  Having people realize these were just 2 boys not total monsters....

Agreed. Much easier to let people believe monsters just do monstrous things.

Liz, that could be it, people at large still think of them as complete monsters. Researchers I think have a more nuanced understanding of them. Sue's book has helped with Dylan though.

No one wants to think their loved one could be capable of such things. We all want to believe we could know who the "bad guys" are.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Would anyone agree that no one can really copycat Columbine? You can't recreate the time, the victims and the lore about them.. were they killed because they were Christians, black, because they were just there? Who was asked what?

Alvaro Castillo tried...

A lot of the shooters were Eric Harris wanna be's....

Columbine itself though will be in its own zeitgeist so people can try to be copycats but it won't have the same affect. Just my humble opinion ;)

Be cool to have a different timeline in an alternate universe where the only difference was that the basement tapes were released. I'd love to know what it would/wouldn't change.

Would kids relate more to them? Would it have made columbine mainstream? Would it have demystified them? Would people idolize them enough to mimic their actions?

Out of all Jeffco did, I think not releasing those tapes caused way more damage. It made them mysterious and way more misunderstood. Something people are actually drawn to, especially when they are also misunderstood.

Eric and Dylan were going to be famous because of how columbine was portrayed by the media, but Eric and Dylan have been made legendary by Jeffco.

Agreed. There's still the mystique around them and the things they have released and have been leaked have only added to people thinking they were pretty 'normal' guys.

A couple questions.

-Was Rampart Range part of the "basement tapes"?

-Were all of the short films they made (except for Nate and Dylan which as we know Nate sold) released by JeffCo or leaked by others? There's one short one with Dylan just quoting a monologue from Pulp Fiction and one of him in theatre class when someone dusts his trench coat and he is NOT happy about this.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Agreed. There's still the mystique around them and the things they have released and have been leaked have only added to people thinking they were pretty 'normal' guys.

A couple questions.

-Was Rampart Range part of the "basement tapes"?

-Were all of the short films they made (except for Nate and Dylan which as we know Nate sold) released by JeffCo or leaked by others? There's one short one with Dylan just quoting a monologue from Pulp Fiction and one of him in theatre class when someone dusts his trench coat and he is NOT happy about this.

Tech not part of the BT afaik.

I know some of the very short clips were things that were aired on TV documentaries and news shows. I think for the most part things were released by Jeffco or friends and family

Thanks!

I think the Browns and Klebolds saw Rampart Range pretty early on. I could be confusing stories from AMR though.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Thanks!

I think the Browns and Klebolds saw Rampart Range pretty early on. I could be confusing stories from AMR though.

IIRC the Rampart Range tape was found at the Harris home and was labelled as such but you know it has been well over a year since I went over the evidence so I get things wrong all the time

When did they release Radioactive Clothing, Hitmen for Hire, Car Wax and Rampart Range.

Not sure the validity of this there is a site with a VERY brief transcript of the Basement Tapes




2nd Tape
Evidence item [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This tape contains footage possibly filmed for school by Dylan and Eric. Both boys are seen in the footage, along with two other people identified as Tex and Browsky.(Bowsky)

That's Radioactive Clothing.

So did they include this as the "Basement Tapes" or were those JUST Eric and Dylan at Erics house and also the one at Dylan's

The houses must have been huge or the boys were quiet because when I had sleepover my parents heard EVERYTHING. We were loud though, I'm still pretty loud...

Am I to believe the FBI was involved in this investigation? If so would they not have a copy in some File 13?

CaptainObvious wrote:

Am I to believe the FBI was involved in this investigation? If so would they not have a copy in some File 13?

They were involved and I am sure they have/had a copy

Well Jeffco did digitise them. I find it hard to believe that they and/or the FBI destroyed all copies of them.

I don't believe in that as well. Columbine is a huge case in crimes history.

  

InsomniaticDreams wrote:

Well Jeffco did digitise them.  I find it hard to believe that they and/or the FBI destroyed all copies of them.

Agreed! I still have hopes of the tapes being eventually released or leaked one day. I mean for the love of all things holy, we are coming up on 19 years! The reasoning behind keeping them from the public in the first place was because they were afraid of copycats, which is kinda pointless now.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

The reasoning behind keeping them from the public in the first place was because they were afraid of copycats, which is kinda pointless now.

Yeah, Cho, Lanza, Atchison, and literal dozens of others have proven that copycats didn't really care if TBT were released or not.

JeffCo is really shady. Don't trust them.

And if they were destroyed, then f*ck JeffCo.

eldigato wrote:

And if they were destroyed, then f*ck JeffCo.

My exact thoughts on Jeffco as well!

Cullen does say in his book that when all the evidence was progressively being released that a federal judge ordered Jeffco to hand over its key evidence including the Basement Tapes so they could be secured in a federal courthouse. Maybe they're still there?

CVA's new youtube vid on this topic for those who haven't already seen it.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

CVA's new youtube vid on this topic for those who haven't already seen it.

I never realized the rest of the families wanted them released. I don’t think the Harris’s saw them/cared at that point.

The only person who didn’t want them released was Sue. More than likely because of Dylan’s behavior.

The leak doesn’t seem too bad, I’ve always liked Dylan’s “Jesus you’re on a roll”

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

CVA's new youtube vid on this topic for those who haven't already seen it.

I never realized the rest of the families wanted them released. I don’t think the Harris’s saw them/cared at that point.

The only person who didn’t want them released was Sue. More than likely because of Dylan’s behavior.

The leak doesn’t seem too bad, I’ve always liked Dylan’s “Jesus you’re on a roll”

I can only hope that someday, somehow they will be leaked/released.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

CVA's new youtube vid on this topic for those who haven't already seen it.

I never realized the rest of the families wanted them released. I don’t think the Harris’s saw them/cared at that point.

The only person who didn’t want them released was Sue. More than likely because of Dylan’s behavior.

The leak doesn’t seem too bad, I’ve always liked Dylan’s “Jesus you’re on a roll”

I can only hope that someday, somehow they will be leaked/released.

Can they be any worse than the 911 call that was leaked, the one where we heard Val?

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

CVA's new youtube vid on this topic for those who haven't already seen it.

I never realized the rest of the families wanted them released. I don’t think the Harris’s saw them/cared at that point.

The only person who didn’t want them released was Sue. More than likely because of Dylan’s behavior.

The leak doesn’t seem too bad, I’ve always liked Dylan’s “Jesus you’re on a roll”

I can only hope that someday, somehow they will be leaked/released.

Can they be any worse than the 911 call that was leaked, the one where we heard Val?

I doubt they would be.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

CVA's new youtube vid on this topic for those who haven't already seen it.

I never realized the rest of the families wanted them released. I don’t think the Harris’s saw them/cared at that point.

The only person who didn’t want them released was Sue. More than likely because of Dylan’s behavior.

The leak doesn’t seem too bad, I’ve always liked Dylan’s “Jesus you’re on a roll”

I can only hope that someday, somehow they will be leaked/released.

Can they be any worse than the 911 call that was leaked, the one where we heard Val?

I doubt they would be.

Lots of cringe, the boys acting tough and a single man tear.

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

CVA's new youtube vid on this topic for those who haven't already seen it.

I never realized the rest of the families wanted them released. I don’t think the Harris’s saw them/cared at that point.

The only person who didn’t want them released was Sue. More than likely because of Dylan’s behavior.

The leak doesn’t seem too bad, I’ve always liked Dylan’s “Jesus you’re on a roll”

I can only hope that someday, somehow they will be leaked/released.

Can they be any worse than the 911 call that was leaked, the one where we heard Val?

I doubt they would be.

Lots of cringe, the boys acting tough and a single man tear.

Indeed, the saltiest man tear ever cried.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

CVA's new youtube vid on this topic for those who haven't already seen it.

I never realized the rest of the families wanted them released. I don’t think the Harris’s saw them/cared at that point.

The only person who didn’t want them released was Sue. More than likely because of Dylan’s behavior.

The leak doesn’t seem too bad, I’ve always liked Dylan’s “Jesus you’re on a roll”

I can only hope that someday, somehow they will be leaked/released.

Can they be any worse than the 911 call that was leaked, the one where we heard Val?

I doubt they would be.

Lots of cringe, the boys acting tough and a single man tear.

Indeed, the saltiest man tear ever cried.

Eric’s feels are real.

I said this many times before, I can almost promise you the FBI has a digitized copy probably sitting in a dusty box. Also, I don't think someone in jeff co making a copy for themselves before they were destroyed is out of the realm of possibility.

slippy123 wrote:

I said this many times before, I can almost promise you the FBI has a digitized copy probably sitting in a dusty box.

Oh almost definitely, but they'll never release them.

When the court unseals documents in the future, if Jeffco is lying about the tapes being destroyed, would we see them released?

hvernon wrote:

When the court unseals documents in the future, if Jeffco is lying about the tapes being destroyed, would we see them released?

Probably not.

I am more concerned about the way they store these.
The videotapes are going to be demagnetified soon and digitized copies means either magnetic storage again or a CD, which also does not survive so long.

About the tapes, I think the basement tapes are probably the last, huge missing chunk of us [researchers] personal archive and I don't see any real reason for them not to be released - hypothetically. No need for the 911 call and such, because I don't think I'd like them, but on the other hand, there is equally / much more cruel stuff on Youtube (The Kyle Dinkheller shooting available on Youtube in 1998 still gets me irritated and disgusted every single time!!)

However, the basement tapes... Is it really that much more worse than Rampart Range? With all the sounds of the weapons that can cause PTSD to anyone involved in gunfights or the "entry, exit" commentary when imagine hitting a "soft target"?

Also, I might repeat myself, but there is a German documentary on a radio station called WDR as far as I remember, and while the narrator talks, there is the library 911 call to be heard. And I think the WDR has a full copy of that call in order to create a documentary - probably requiring them to make it a shocking, "Let's never make it happen again" style of documentation and regie, because it being used to emphasize the cruelty - and it really does its job. Now of course it might be one of the 1,000 snippets flying around the web that I have not heard, but to me, the segment that's played underneath the narrator gave me goosebumps.

It also shocks me that Rampart Range was released and not the basement tapes. There’s been a lot of speculation about and all this is speculation right now. It took me a long time to watch rampart range. I did not mind any of the other videos. I really couldn’t bring myself to watch them fire the actual guns, and when I watched it I got this really angry at Mark Manes.

Screamingophelia wrote:

It also shocks me that Rampart Range was released and not the basement tapes. There’s been a lot of speculation about and all this is speculation right now. It took me a long time to watch rampart range. I did not mind  any of the other videos. I really couldn’t bring myself to watch them fire the actual guns, and when I watched it I got this really angry at Mark Manes.

They also released Hitmen for Hire too, which IMO was a really questionable decision considering it was a school project that doesn't help at all in understanding who  Eric and Dylan were.

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

It also shocks me that Rampart Range was released and not the basement tapes. There’s been a lot of speculation about and all this is speculation right now. It took me a long time to watch rampart range. I did not mind  any of the other videos. I really couldn’t bring myself to watch them fire the actual guns, and when I watched it I got this really angry at Mark Manes.

They also released Hitmen for Hire too, which IMO was a really questionable decision considering it was a school project that doesn't help at all in understanding who  Eric and Dylan were.

True, The student films were just them acting. And they also made them look extremely human. Doesn’t do anything for people to not empathize with them.

Screamingophelia wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

It also shocks me that Rampart Range was released and not the basement tapes. There’s been a lot of speculation about and all this is speculation right now. It took me a long time to watch rampart range. I did not mind  any of the other videos. I really couldn’t bring myself to watch them fire the actual guns, and when I watched it I got this really angry at Mark Manes.

They also released Hitmen for Hire too, which IMO was a really questionable decision considering it was a school project that doesn't help at all in understanding who  Eric and Dylan were.

True, The student films were just them acting. And they also made them look extremely human. Doesn’t do anything for people to not empathize  with them.

It also shows them acting out their fantasies about killing jocks and people they hated, so I'm scratching my head as to why JeffCo decided to release it. Maybe cause it had already been seen by people other than, Eric, Dylan and the police?

QuestionMark wrote:

It also shows them acting out their fantasies about killing jocks and people they hated, so I'm scratching my head as to why JeffCo decided to release it. Maybe cause it had already been seen by people other than, Eric, Dylan and the police?

They may have thought that someone would share a copy regardless, so they released it to avoid controversy if those films were "leaked"

I have a career shadow later this month, and my father might know someone that works in the Jeffco Sheriff's office, as he might have mentioned it before. I might see if I can get a career shadow there, out of personal interest and other interests. I don't know if this has any relevance to this, but I'll see if anything happens lol. I personally don't think that the tapes were destroyed. I'll see what I can find out. It's highly likely that nothing will happen though

Is there a complete transcript anywhere? All I can find are part-transcripts, part-vague-descriptions of what "the boys talked about" or "what they went on to discuss", but not what they actually said (which pisses me off).

patogen wrote:

Is there a complete transcript anywhere? All I can find are part-transcripts, part-vague-descriptions of what "the boys talked about" or "what they went on to discuss", but not what they actually said (which pisses me off).

Not to my knowledge.
These are the main sources I've found with information on the contents of the Basement Tapes:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Police partial transcript in the CR   pg. 10374-10483

Peter Langman's schoolshooters site. I don't know how he compiled this information as I wasn't aware that he had actually seen the tapes. But they are consistent with everything else I've read so I assume them to be accurate.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And the Time magazine article
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]