Basement Tapes Destroyed

I'm not sure if I have shared this, but it is my best attempt to make an "Accurate" and complete Basement Tape transcript.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

News articles written by reporters who saw the tapes:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I will bump the thread.

I haven't been able to read through the entire thread, so this may have been brought up already, but the FBI should have copies. IIRC Jeffco/Colorado doesn't fall under FOIA since they're not federal, but rather they have a special state version of FOIA. I'd say our best bet would be to find out what specific FBI office handled the case, and then contact them with a FOIA. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] , [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] , or [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] do you guys have this info?

properground wrote:

I haven't been able to read through the entire thread, so this may have been brought up already, but the FBI should have copies. IIRC Jeffco/Colorado doesn't fall under FOIA since they're not federal, but rather they have a special state version of FOIA. I'd say our best bet would be to find out what specific FBI office handled the case, and then contact them with a FOIA. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] , [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] , or [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] do you guys have this info?

Sorority would probably know for sure. I am sure its in the 11k but I dont even know what i would be looking for. Perhaps I can look up specific officer info and see if it is listed under any of that

Cezar wrote:

The statutes of limitations never run out on murder.  (They shouldn't on rape either.)


So, the case is still open and they can't just destroy evidence.

They are telling lies.   Also, there are copies. Someone needs to "leak" them onto the net.

The basement tapes are set to be released 2026.  Which is suspicious.  The tapes should have been released by now.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

There's another link on there titled "driving around Denver", but the link is broken. Anyone have a working link?

Lizpuff wrote:

properground wrote:

I haven't been able to read through the entire thread, so this may have been brought up already, but the FBI should have copies. IIRC Jeffco/Colorado doesn't fall under FOIA since they're not federal, but rather they have a special state version of FOIA. I'd say our best bet would be to find out what specific FBI office handled the case, and then contact them with a FOIA. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] , [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] , or [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] do you guys have this info?

Sorority would probably know for sure.  I am sure its in the 11k but I dont even know what i would be looking for.  Perhaps I can look up specific officer info and see if it is listed under any of that

That's a pretty good idea. They usually list their office. I'll do some digging as well.

The local FBI office in Colorado:

8000 East 36th Avenue
Denver, CO 80238
(303) 629-7171

Covers the entire states of Colorado and Wyoming

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

GreenGrayDay wrote:

Meanwhile, they can let videos like ISIS showing how to make bombs at home. But can't release a video from a event that already happened years ago...

No, they don't. IS themselves release their videos, not the police.

You could file an FOIA to the FBI and hope that they reply.

I've always felt so sure that I would want to see the basement tapes and for sure it would be fascinating but I kinda feel like I'm only really wanting to see them because there hasn't been anything released except for a short recording.

If the suicide pics hadn't been released - or leaked I think is more accurate - than I'd be morbidly interested in those as well. As it stands, I've seen them and moved on. Horrible to look at but nothing unusual anymore. That sounds terrible but there you go.

I agree with those that say releasing the tapes would have humanized Eric and Dylan in a way. I think that they did some ranting, etc. on the tapes that made them seem unhinged but some of the reporters who saw the tapes also realized how much E & D hated themselves. If they wanted to push the narrative that these were kids, Eric especially, that couldn't have been stopped because they were evil, this isn't something law enforcement would want widely known.

I also think it's possible that they said things about the police, the diversion program, etc. that would reflect badly on Jeffco officials if it got out.

I understand, in theory, how they may have considered that releasing the tapes could promote copycats. But once they were forced to release everything else- journals, videos, class writings, police statements of their friends, etc.- this argument was moot. There is more than enough in all of that for a copycat to get his/her fill from, as we've seen time and time again. The tapes wouldn't have made much more of a dent. All of those things were released before the tapes were "destroyed" (I think the FBI, at least, has a copy). This is why I think there must have been another, less "honorable" reason for withholding the tapes.

I would even go out and say that just the shooting itself happening is enough to create copycats. They didn't need to release anything. Almost all School Shooting trace back to Columbine in some way or another. If the shooting didn't happen I can almost guarantee we wouldn't have as big of a School Shooting problem. Also The FBI does have a Copy. I'll have to find the "text," but I saw where I believe either one or multiple agents made copies.

well, someone managed to get those Adam Lanza pics released by a foia request (where he's posing with guns). i think until that point everybody thought it would be impossible to ever see such pictures of adam.

afaik it was a user named "cryinghampster" from tumblr. he has also some other rare pictures of adam. there was also a thread on reddit about it with some background information about the foia request and the release of the pictures.

maybe someone with a tumblr account could contact him/her and ask if he/she could also try his/her luck on unreleased columbine stuff.

Someone needs to sneak into the FBI building and retreve the tapes.

Guest wrote:

Recently Jefferson County elected a new sheriff.

I have a question. Does anyone know if the FBI made a duplicate copy of the Basement Tapes? Because the FBI investigated this case, and reviewed all the video evidence, I assume that the FBI made a duplicate copy in storage and allowed JCSO to keep the original. I am just speculating here.

jada887 wrote:

I have a question. Does anyone know if the FBI made a duplicate copy of the Basement Tapes? Because the FBI investigated this case, and reviewed all the video evidence, I assume that the FBI made a duplicate copy in storage and allowed JCSO to keep the original. I am just speculating here.

On pg. 10377 of the CR it mentions that FBI Agent Jeff Diehl was given a copy of the tape showing Harris and Klebold showing their armaments, talking about Passover, the part where Eric cries in his car, talking about prom, the gun show, and the last segment right before the massacre. On pg. 10381 and 10383, a Jeffco officer notes that she made a copy of two of the other tapes, but it doesn't say if either tape was given to the FBI. The tapes in question show Harris and Klebold talking about Green Mountain Guns, Manes, Duran and Robyn helping them get guns, how they feel about all kinds of stuff/people/races. It also includes the scene with Eric by himself in his bedroom.

I'm guessing the FBI still has copies. Maybe we'll find out some day.

thelmar wrote:

jada887 wrote:

I have a question. Does anyone know if the FBI made a duplicate copy of the Basement Tapes? Because the FBI investigated this case, and reviewed all the video evidence, I assume that the FBI made a duplicate copy in storage and allowed JCSO to keep the original. I am just speculating here.

On pg. 10377 of the CR it mentions that FBI Agent Jeff Diehl was given a copy of the tape showing Harris and Klebold showing their armaments, talking about Passover, the part where Eric cries in his car, talking about prom, the gun show, and the last segment right before the massacre. On pg. 10381 and 10383, a Jeffco officer notes that she made a copy of two of the other tapes, but it doesn't say if either tape was given to the FBI. The tapes in question show Harris and Klebold talking about Green Mountain Guns, Manes, Duran and Robyn helping them get guns, how they feel about all kinds of stuff/people/races. It also includes the scene with Eric by himself in his bedroom.

I'm guessing the FBI still has copies. Maybe we'll find out some day.

There was talk of this in a thread on here a while ago. The FBI may have a copy of the tapes, as well as other photos. County departments have a different FOIA process, which is state-governed and is less likely to work; the FBI falls under FOIA itself. Someone found the field office that handled the tapes and the evidence and posted their contact info here. Any agency that could be subject to FOIA requests has to have a FOIA office (which may just be one or two people who are in charge of requests).

Our beat bet is to contact that office and make a FOIA request since Jeffco has never been helpful, and because FOIA stuff is taken seriously. I'd do it myself but I have reasons why I can't. If anyone is interested in trying I can give tips on how to submit the request to the office.

I really believe those tapes, or at least more evidence is only a FOIA request away, and if I was in a different position i'd do it myself.

So I'm making an eFOIPA request to the FBI, does anybody have any tips on what exactly to request?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Technically, the video footage we have from late 2003 belongs to the infamous 'basement' tapes.

The former counsel for the Harrises and Klebolds, and those for the school district and many of the victims' families, would almost certainly have had the opportunity to review, and some cases, most likely made or were given a copy of the tapes provided.  

There were at one point likely up to several dozen partial or full copies among the lawyers, school district administration, and various responding law enforcement agencies, and even more if you add unauthorized audio made during the Fall 1999 closed press and family showings of what was likely only about 75-80% of the basement tapes.  

It is quite likely that many of these copies still survive.  Sue Klebold may very well be in direct possession of full copies.

However, I believe it is self-deluding to presume that you will ever receive an honest and forthcoming response from any law enforcement agency involved, on the matter of the unreleased tapes themselves, whether from the FBI or a sheriff's office in a neighboring county.  

I doubt the originals have truly been destroyed, and the decision to prevaricate on an almost impossible to justify FOIA request was made years before the uptick in these mass shooting incidents.  

There is not even a remote chance that any agency would intentionally and voluntarily disclose the existence of, let alone release, any portion of this evidence, in our present climate.

Their aiders and abettors in the Courts will do nothing to challenge or upset the now established narrative of purged evidence from a long 'closed' investigation.


Brian Rohrbaugh, Randy Brown, or the various local television station and newspaper journalists and the archives at their headquarters would likely be the nearest source of getting a leak of at least a lengthy audio portion of the unreleased tapes.

I believe most of us would find that these vaunted missing tapes are far more mundane (and juvenile) than the reputation they have garnered over the years, and are probably no more shocking outright than myriad (non-policy-violating) things uploaded daily to YouTube.

Has anyone made an eFOIPA request to the FBI yet? I have one written out and I am going to send it soon (unless someone already has). It costs money so I don't want to do it if someone already has and it didn't work.

kblu wrote:

Has anyone made an eFOIPA request to the FBI yet? I have one written out and I am going to send it soon (unless someone already has). It costs money so I don't want to do it if someone already has and it didn't work.

I know some have said they were going to do it. I am not sure anyone has.

I personally believe they won't release the tapes (cause let's be honest here, they didn't destroy shit.) because it will humanize them. Especially Eric. Him in his bedroom and him in his car crying. They want them in bad light, and that will pretty much shatter it. But also, as someone mentioned, that Sue doesn't want people to see her son that way. Talking about killing, calling girls bitches, etc.

noodlesoldier wrote:

I personally believe they won't release the tapes (cause let's be honest here, they didn't destroy shit.)

Yes they did. I know this because logically they have everything to gain and nothing to lose from destroying those tapes. If the tapes are literally gone, nobody can ask for them.

QuestionMark wrote:

noodlesoldier wrote:

I personally believe they won't release the tapes (cause let's be honest here, they didn't destroy shit.)

Yes they did. I know this because logically they have everything to gain and nothing to lose from destroying those tapes. If the tapes are literally gone, nobody can ask for them.

Still, I think there is at least one copy in the world.

Onyx wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

noodlesoldier wrote:

I personally believe they won't release the tapes (cause let's be honest here, they didn't destroy shit.)

Yes they did. I know this because logically they have everything to gain and nothing to lose from destroying those tapes. If the tapes are literally gone, nobody can ask for them.

Still, I think there is at least one copy in the world.

If there is a copy out there, JeffCo almost certainly doesn't have it (no incentive to keep it). CVA speculated that the FBI might have a copy stashed away somewhere, other than that, IDK.

kblu wrote:

Has anyone made an eFOIPA request to the FBI yet? I have one written out and I am going to send it soon (unless someone already has). It costs money so I don't want to do it if someone already has and it didn't work.

Just curious how much it actually costs to submit the request? I'd be shocked if it goes anywhere, but the cost is interesting to me.

iforgotmyoldname2 wrote:

Just curious how much it actually costs to submit the request? I'd be shocked if it goes anywhere, but the cost is interesting to me.

I think it varies depending upon the case, the type of information you are seeking, and the jurisdiction. For instance, I did one maybe 8 years ago on an alleged suspect of another pet case of mine, the Zodiac. I was looking for military service records and I received them at no cost.

I doesn’t cost anything to submit an FOIA request. However, whomever you’re contacting can request money for the records they find. Just submitting a request is free though.

I sent a FOIPA request about two weeks ago.

I just got a letter in the mail today.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I doubt that. There’s no way that they would be unable to locate them if they really did have them. And I believe that they do have them because there’s a part in the 11k that literally says a copy was given to the FBI. They couldn’t have been destroyed because if they were then the second check mark would have been ticked. If they don’t want them released, why would they claim they couldn’t locate them if they could just check the tick mark and say they were destroyed to get us all to shut up? Because they weren’t destroyed, and if they were ever leaked, that would be more of a lie than simply just pretending they can’t locate them. So I really do believe they still have the copy. Either they really can’t find it (doubtful), lost it, or they don’t want the public to see them for some reason. I wonder if this is a copy paste answer they give to everyone who requests the tapes.

kblu wrote:

I sent a FOIPA request about two weeks ago.

I just got a letter in the mail today.



I doubt that. There’s no way that they would be unable to locate them if they really did have them. And I believe that they do have them because there’s a part in the 11k that literally says a copy was given to the FBI. They couldn’t have been destroyed because if they were then the second check mark would have been ticked. If they don’t want them released, why would they claim they couldn’t locate them if they could just check the tick mark and say they were destroyed to get us all to shut up? Because they weren’t destroyed, and if they were ever leaked, that would be more of a lie than simply just pretending they can’t locate them. So I really do believe they still have the copy. Either they really can’t find it (doubtful), lost it, or they don’t want the public to see them for some reason. I wonder if this is a copy paste answer they give to everyone who requests the tapes.

For all intents and purposes, those tapes may as well be destroyed. If they have been destroyed, we'll never see them, that's that. If the FBI/JeffCo/whoever really does have a copy, they will never release it, and then we're back to square one.

We will never see those tapes short of literal divine intervention. It's wasted effort trying.

Their videos have been published, their diaries have been published, the suicide photos are on the Internet, the school and the library were filmed and published shortly after the attack, there are photos of the crime scene, pictures of two dead students outside the school, etc. But if two guys sit in front of the camera and explain why they did it, won't it be published because people are afraid of followers?!? I don't entirely agree with this because I think anything that can be found about Columbine inspires potential violent criminals even more

Jaymie wrote:

Their videos have been published, their diaries have been published, the suicide photos are on the Internet, the school and the library were filmed and published shortly after the attack, there are photos of the crime scene, pictures of two dead students outside the school, etc. But if two guys sit in front of the camera and explain why they did it, won't it be published because people are afraid of followers?!? I don't entirely agree with this because I think anything that can be found about Columbine inspires potential violent criminals even more

Shootings will keep existing, not releasing that videos by the reason could cause shootings is stupid.

It can’t be completely destroyed, right?....

Jaymie wrote:

Their videos have been published, their diaries have been published, the suicide photos are on the Internet, the school and the library were filmed and published shortly after the attack, there are photos of the crime scene, pictures of two dead students outside the school, etc. But if two guys sit in front of the camera and explain why they did it, won't it be published because people are afraid of followers?!? I don't entirely agree with this because I think anything that can be found about Columbine inspires potential violent criminals even more

And plus even without the Basement Tapes there have still been hundreds of copycats, the first copycat happened 8 days after the shooting!

Something I wonder that some of you may know the answer too, but who is the one who started calling the tapes the "Basement Tapes"? Was it the TIME magazine article that first started using the name? It does not sound like something the FBI would ever use to describe evidence. Just curious but [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] how did you describe the tapes in your request? Simply stating the Basement Tapes may provoke the problem if there was not a good amount of info there. Even though I doubt the FBI would listen if we put the full transcripts in the request to help them find them. Either way I thank you for sending the request.

  

TheOne99 wrote:

Jaymie wrote:

Their videos have been published, their diaries have been published, the suicide photos are on the Internet, the school and the library were filmed and published shortly after the attack, there are photos of the crime scene, pictures of two dead students outside the school, etc. But if two guys sit in front of the camera and explain why they did it, won't it be published because people are afraid of followers?!? I don't entirely agree with this because I think anything that can be found about Columbine inspires potential violent criminals even more

And plus even without the Basement Tapes there have still been hundreds of copycats, the first copycat happened 8 days after the shooting!

That's right, so I don't understand why they're not releasing the Basement Tapes. They make statements, Eric doesn't like alcohol and Dylan chews on a toothpick and does something with candy ... and I want to see what he does with the candy

Holy crap guys! I think I found some leaked footage!

khscarymovie4part4 wrote:

Something I wonder that some of you may know the answer too, but who is the one who started calling the tapes the "Basement Tapes"? Was it the TIME magazine article that first started using the name? It does not sound like something the FBI would ever use to describe evidence. Just curious but [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] how did you describe the tapes in your request? Simply stating the Basement Tapes may provoke the problem if there was not a good amount of info there. Even though I doubt the FBI would listen if we put the full transcripts in the request to help them find them. Either way I thank you for sending the request.

I said: "The evidence I am requesting are a series of video tapes made by the two perpetrators in the months prior to the attack. These tapes are commonly known as “The Basement Tapes” among law enforcement and others who are familiar with the case.

On April 24, 1999, Officer Zimmerman of The Jefferson County‘s Sheriff Office (JSCO) viewed and made several copies of these tapes. In a report dated April 28, 1999, which I have included with this request, Zimmerman states one copy was made for himself and another was given to FBI SA Jeff Diehl for transportation to the FBI command post."

I also included the transcript of the tapes from the Zimmerman report.

There are transcripts. Given that it can create a copycat effect I agree that its a good decision

I’m sorry for bumping the old post up, but I find it funny how the tapes are supposedly destroyed, while, for example, SeattlePD has all the evidence still available from Kurt Cobain’s SUICIDE that happened in 1994, including the undeveloped film, shotgun and etc. And we’re talking about suicide here. Yes, of a celebrity, but nonetheless.
A murderous act of such scale, and they are getting rid of evidence? Seriously?

vio1ette wrote:

I’m sorry for bumping the old post up, but I find it funny how the tapes are supposedly destroyed, while, for example, SeattlePD has all the evidence still available from Kurt Cobain’s SUICIDE that happened in 1994, including the undeveloped film, shotgun and etc. And we’re talking about suicide here. Yes, of a celebrity, but nonetheless.
A murderous act of such scale, and they are getting rid of evidence? Seriously?

I dont think it's something they should release to the public given that Columbine has allready garnered enough copycat effects

Norwegian wrote:

There are transcripts. Given that it can create a copycat effect I agree that its a good decision

Norwegian wrote:

I dont think it's something they should release to the public given that Columbine has allready garnered enough copycat effects

Damn, that's practically heresy around these parts. I admire your bravery.

All jokes aside I myself don't see much, if any remaining value in seeing those tapes. I very much doubt it'll answer any burning questions that any of us have, and it seems likely to me it'd only create new questions, more dubious speculation, more over analysis, and maybe I'm just a stick in the mud but it might just be a general let down no matter what. I remember having been very much anticipating the day they'd release more of Adam Lanza's writings and pictures, and then once they went ahead and did it all the excitement drained out of me like a deflating tire.

Wanting is better than having, I guess.

Im glad they did.

We have transcripts from the tapes, allready.

I don’t understand how to quote someone, but this is to the user above. The transcripts available are far from complete, the basement tapes were over 3 hours long.

Stallo wrote:

I don’t understand how to quote someone, but this is to the user above. The transcripts available are far from complete, the basement tapes were over 3 hours long.

Theres allready enough information out there. Theres been so much copycat effects after Columbine that I dont see how destroying them was a bad idea

My only comment.

I sincerely trust the authorities decision making on this one. What I also support is to not mention the names of the killers after such incidents.

I agree with threat assessment(mainly in the US), allthough, not how its been handled, as too many innocent people have been injustly targeted.


I also agree with restrictions on access to firearms, given that many of them pick up guns from their homes. Allthough, I think it takes time for the US to get there.


Also, do something about bullying, child abuse, mental health issues and anything thats connected to these school shootings.

Time Magazine's Tim Roche on NPR [The Basement Tapes] (December 13, 1999)

NPR speaks with Tim Roche, co-author of The Columbine Tapes, an article published in the Dec. 20, 1999 issue of Time Magazine. Roche tells NPR about what he learned from viewing videotapes, i.e. the Basement Tapes, made by the teens who carried out the massacre last spring at Columbine High School in Colorado. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris detailed their motives and plans for killing students at the school.

Time Magazine's Tim Roche on NPR [The Basement Tapes] (December 13, 1999)