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 Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?

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Sabratha
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Duskstareblazeithappypone

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PostSubject: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeMon Jul 06, 2015 7:14 pm

I mean, The bombs failed to explode, They only killed thirteen, And overall NBK was just a huge disappointment for what it was originally supposed to be.

I personally think they should have maybe tried out the bombs before planting them with some different propane bombs, I also think if they hadn't dicked around with shooting the guns and developed good shooting habits they would have gotten a lot more fatalities, Rather than holding the damn things sideways. Even if they didn't during the shooting it's still a horrid habit and can diminish accuracy. I think many more factors are to blame, Like them just not having the urge to kill after the first few kills and just verbally teasing the students and stuff, Also eric's broken nose could have had something to do with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeMon Jul 06, 2015 7:43 pm

I don't think they could have practiced with other propane bombs. I'm sure that would have gotten them caught, someone would have noticed. If they had done research they would have known the bombs weren't going to work. I think they were so preoccupied with how badass NBK would be that they were only really mentally prepared for the massacre.

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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeMon Jul 06, 2015 7:55 pm

Yeah I can agree with that 100%
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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeMon Jul 06, 2015 11:57 pm

Perhaps they should have done some research first on using propane tanks as bombs and then maybe they would have known that if they even got the things started it would 1. Take at least 20 minutes or so to heat to the point of explosion. 2. Even if a fire did start to heat up the tanks the Cafeteria sprinkler system would have put it out 3. An explosion from a propane tank isn't that great to bring down an entire Cafeteria and Library above it and 4. If the fire did start, all the students would have seen it and ran out of the Cafeteria and would have been long gone before the tanks heated up enough to explode. And last, they should have at least tried this method out beforehand to see if it would even work.

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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeTue Jul 07, 2015 12:52 am

An easy way to make a propane tank explode is tape a road flare to it, ignite the flare, then shoot it. Ive seen plenty of videos of this being done and the explosion definitely doesnt seem massive enough to cause the fatalities the police keep suggesting they could of had, if the bombs did explode.

One thing all over american sporting goods stores right now is a product called tannerite. Its an explosive triggered only by a high velocity projectile (a bullet) You accumulate enough of this stuff and its just as potent as any fertilizer bomb/gun powder explosive. Not illegal yet, but im betting one of these days someone is going to use it against people and thats the end of that.
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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeTue Jul 07, 2015 1:15 am

bigj wrote:
An easy way to make a propane tank explode is tape a road flare to it, ignite the flare, then shoot it. Ive seen plenty of videos of this being done and the explosion definitely doesnt seem massive enough to cause the fatalities the police keep suggesting they could of had, if the bombs did explode.  

That would make a propane tank explode but it wasn't practical for NBK because of the crowd.

There were two propane tanks in each backpack, plus gas-can primers so that would've make a slightly bigger blast than this:



In an enclosed space, the blast would have been pretty devastating.
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Sabratha

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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 08, 2015 7:01 am

Well, as someone who in my free time also researched "The Troubles" in Ireland, IRA and RIRA, I *think* I know what went wrong with Eric's bombs.

No, I don't have the slightest desire to discuss Eric's particular bomb-making fault on a forum where any random (censored) can come in, start a mess in RL and then the PD will blame me for providing bomb-related information. No thanks.

Two things I feel free to mention however are:

1. Most propane-based or similar explosives (fertilizer) used by real terrorists have a small charge made of an actual military explosive like semtex or D-MAT, or a commercial explosive like gelignite to set it off. E&D didn't have access to any of these. Afaik they planned an ignition based outcome to blow up the main tank.

What's the deal then?

The sprinklers.

Chances are they would still stop the big boom either way, even if ignition started (if I correctly made a guess on the ignition mechanism E&D used).

2. Car bombs, also propane. AFAIK no mercury based tilt fuse was used, despite this making the most sense. Either E&D didn't have the knowledge required, or just thought it impractical given the lack of access to reliable materials.

My main impression is that the bombs were a long shot and that Eric was perfectly aware of how much a logn shot it is. This would explain why E&D so quickly started shooting after the bombs failed to go off.
It is a very short amount time for a "wtf happened?!" sort of reaction. Let's face it - they knew that a bomb failure is entirely possible, they were not surprised and taht's why they very smoothly went into a "shoot first, check bombs later" mindset.

Also would explain why it was Dylan who was going in to check on the bombs and why he seems to be the more interested in the bombs during the shooting.

Last disclaimer:
So yeah, feel free to ask me questions, but please be aware taht I may decline to asnwer if i feel it is going into too detailed bomb-related info thet could potentially help any actual terrorkiddies.

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Last edited by Sabratha on Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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LPorter101
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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 08, 2015 7:48 am

How much did they spend on NBK?

Timothy McVeigh spent about five thousand dollars on a bomb that killed 168 people.

If Eric and Dylan had been able and willing to spend five thousand dollars on their bombs, they could have killed a lot more folks than McVeigh did.

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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 08, 2015 7:59 am

And let me be the first to say that they "went wrong" when they started shooting ... killing is always bad.

Let's not forget that. Very Happy

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Sabratha

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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 08, 2015 8:04 am

True, money and scale (McVeigh had a whole truck) is important. plus they had to work in their parent's garages so to speak.

Still, I think the fact that they had no reliable commercial explosive (or blast caps etc) to act as an initiator was the key.

LPorter101 wrote:
And let me be the first to say that they "went wrong" when they started shooting ... killing is always bad.

Let's not forget that. Very Happy

True that mr. boyscout! ;)

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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 08, 2015 8:26 am

Sabratha wrote:
True, money and scale (McVeigh had a whole truck) is important. plus they had to work in their parent's garages so to speak.

Still, I think the fact that they had no reliable commercial explosive (or blast caps etc) to act as an initiator was the key.

LPorter101 wrote:
And let me be the first to say that they "went wrong" when they started shooting ... killing is always bad.

Let's not forget that. Very Happy

True that mr. boyscout! ;)

It's the ex-moderator in me.

I keep thinking of Smiggles ... you never know if someone lurking around here is planning something bad. (Again, I know we're all nice, well-adjusted, law-abiding folks here, but you never know.)

I'm glad that he never posted in one of the "How could Eric and Dylan have killed even more people?" threads. The talking heads on the nooz would have had a field day with it: "Kid-killer Adam Lanza sought - and got - murderous advice from psychopathic sickos on a Columbine forum!"
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Sabratha

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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 08, 2015 9:07 am

Yeah, that's the issue - you never know whena terrorkiddie is gonna go bouncing down so to speak.

Having said that, there's alrady enough terrorist-information made public by ISIS or USA white militants.

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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 08, 2015 10:51 am

Ooh I forgot about that thread, I'm gonna go post in it now. XD
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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 08, 2015 8:44 pm

Eric and Dylan went wrong when they decided to kill people, we will never know whether they were would of been able to overcome their problems if they didn't go ahead with the shooting, but they were smart and with the right opportunities they would of been OK in society. Eric needed to grow up and Dylan needed to find something in his life that made him happy. They both needed to take things into a bigger perspective too. I could never be in their situation so I think if I was them then I would seek psychiatric help from a mental health hospital, I don't know about the US but where I am its free.

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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 08, 2015 8:56 pm

Eric was under psychiatric treatment at the time. He was also taking prescribed medication.

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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 09, 2015 1:37 am

Quote :
I would seek psychiatric help from a mental health hospital, I don't know about the US but where I am its free.

That's what I'd want to do too, but it's not free in the US. It's more complicated than that and it depends on your situation, but many people go without this kind of help because they can't afford it. Even with the insurance I have, I could not afford to do this. In an emergency situation it may be easier to get some (temporary) help, but the bill would probably be unbelievable.

But I'm assuming I'd recognize that a massacre was a bad idea and want help. I can't imagine the mindset of thinking it was actually a legitimate option, so who knows what I'd do. And maybe even if I did try to get help or someone tried to make me get help, it wouldn't make me feel any different. Like Gustopoet said, Eric was being treated by a psychiatrist at the time.


As for the actual shooting, I agree they should have tested the bombs and worked on their shooting abilities more seriously. If they couldn't test the bombs they should have had a concrete backup plan. I think it boils down to them being overconfident.
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Sabratha

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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 09, 2015 8:18 am

Falcolus wrote:
Eric and Dylan went wrong when they decided to kill people, we will never know whether they were would of been able to overcome their problems if they didn't go ahead with the shooting, but they were smart and with the right opportunities they would of been OK in society. Eric needed to grow up and Dylan needed to find something in his life that made him happy. They both needed to take things into a bigger perspective too. I could never be in their situation so I think if I was them then I would seek psychiatric help from a mental health hospital, I don't know about the US but where I am its free.

Well, many times I heard the sort of: "They should have waited a few months, get out of CHS, get a life, grow up" sort of statement.

And while tis hard to prove, I think this is entirely not the case. Dylan was depressed (probably clinical depression too) and while its possible his depression would just go away randomly (happens to some patients) its far from common. I think its safe to assume Dylan the depressed teenager would then go on to be the depressed college student and then the lonely and depressed IT guy in his 20s and then 30s.

Perhaps without Eric, Dylan would have never found teh guts to do anything violent on his own. But then again, perhaps alone Dylan would just blow up on campus like Cho. Or blow up at work like Richard Farley?

Eric is imho an even clearer case. If he was a psychopath, or had strong psychopathic traits at least, then psychological treatement would be useless. If you have a psychopath go through treatement, counseling or worst of all - group therapy then you are NOT helping him. All you are doing is giving him better social skills that he will use to try to dupe the police or prison system and his potential future victims.

Also, Eric had a fundamental issue with society, the way it works and the modern lifestyle. Without Dylan he would probably go on in some way trying to get by (poorly) and adaping to society (poorly). Perhaps he would have been another Unabomber or Tim McVeigh in the worst case scenario? Or just an angry and dissatisfied guy livign a life in a society he hates?

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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 15, 2015 4:32 pm

ellie z wrote:


I agree they should have tested the bombs and worked on their shooting abilities more seriously. If they couldn't test the bombs they should have had a concrete backup plan. I think it boils down to them being overconfident.

I think they did test the propane bombs. Chris Morris relates a story they told him and by his description, the damage could not have been caused from a simple pipe-bomb. Description @ 2:23.



Also, it seems to me that Eric relates buying more propane tanks than are accounted for in the known bombs, including the diversionary bombs, which I assume also contained propane tanks as a component.

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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 05, 2016 12:38 am

I would have sent the videos to the media if I was Eric or Dylan. Would have researched bombs and other weapons of mas destruction. Death by cop or arrested. But I'm me and have never had any intentions on killing my classmates.
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PostSubject: Re: Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done?   Where did eric and dylan go wrong?/What would you have done? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 05, 2016 2:46 pm

Eric and Dylan really should have studied more math physics and chemistry.

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