Did Dylan specifically target men?

Gustopoet2 wrote:

lio45 wrote:

At 5:41, the boys are still near the entrance of the library, they haven't yet crossed to the computer rows and windows -- which fits with the "right over there" part, because Table 2 is indeed right over there from the entrance. It wouldn't be the case any more after they'd moved west.

Thanks for this info lio45, it is much appreciated.  

You had me thinking about the timing and now I'm not so sure any more -- this "bitches" comment actually comes 33 seconds after Dylan said "Everybody get up now!".

We know they waited at least a bit, then Eric said something like "Fine, we're gonna start shooting anyway!" when they saw no one would get up, but that did not take a whopping 30 seconds.

What bugs me is that I know the authorities cut the recording on purpose in order to not release any deaths (that's why it stops at 5:57 and we don't have the rest except the Townsend/Schnurr segment leaked, IIRC, in 2013) so I've always assumed Kyle wasn't shot until after 5:57. That assumption means they "fooled around" for over 30 seconds in the library entrance...

Thoughts, everyone?

lio45 wrote:

You had me thinking about the timing and now I'm not so sure any more -- this "bitches" comment actually comes 33 seconds after Dylan said "Everybody get up now!".

We know they waited at least a bit, then Eric said something like "Fine, we're gonna start shooting anyway!" when they saw no one would get up, but that did not take a whopping 30 seconds.

4:58 They walk in, Eric orders "Get up!" Shoots at Todd.

5:08 Dylan yells "EVERYBODY GET UP...NOW!"

5:24 Dylan whoops about shooting Kyle.

5:27  "Hey boy."

"Hey boy!" returned Eric. "Assume as much, yeah. Don't worry, you'll all be dead within a couple of minutes."

"All jocks get up!" they both called. "Everyone in white hats get up! You'll die first!" -- white hats in Columbine were the trademarks of the jocks, the sports guys. A couple of boys underneath the tables took their hats off and tried to hide them as best they could.

"This is our revenge!" shouted Eric and Dylan. "For the four fucked-up years you put us through. For four years of bullying and giving us shit. Hey, jocks, this is our revenge for making us outcasts. This is what we've been waiting for all our lives. We're gonna blow this library up!"

5:41 "Bitches" Yell -- Dylan spots the "A" library table girls.

So it is actually more like 15 seconds. They are threatening and looking around for high value targets. If not, why didn't Eric shoot the kid that said "Don't do that!" etc...

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

It might be an operator in the back.

It is Dylan's voice. Sorry Sab.  It really is. And he really is saying what I've quoted.

The operators' voices are present, but there is simply no mistaking the timbre of Dylan's voice, particularly when he is yelling.

I don't hear it, it does nto sound at all like Dylan. Eric if anything, but not Dylan.

Also why would Dylan say:" Now go get them"? If this was an order to Eric, then Eric obviously ignored it. Also to whom would Dylan say: "Can I help you?"

Sabratha wrote:

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

It might be an operator in the back.

It is Dylan's voice. Sorry Sab.  It really is. And he really is saying what I've quoted.

The operators' voices are present, but there is simply no mistaking the timbre of Dylan's voice, particularly when he is yelling.

I don't hear it, it does nto sound at all like Dylan. Eric if anything, but not Dylan.

Also why would Dylan say:" Now go get them"? If this was an order to Eric, then Eric obviously ignored it. Also to whom would Dylan say: "Can I help you?"

I can't help you any further Sabratha. Sorry. Everything is in the upstream threads. Please review the material carefully. I don't hear " Now go get them" anywhere on the tape.

"Can I help you?" is clearly one of the operators' voice.

Its one continuous statement, little to no pause: "Get those bitches/switches over here, now go get em". and then after a pause its "Can I help you?". all the same voice.

Sabratha wrote:

Its one continuous statement, little to no pause: "Get those bitches/switches over here, now go get em". and then after a pause its "Can I help you?". all the same voice.

Nope. The timbre of the voices could not be any different. Same for the volume. One is screaming (Dylan); the other is calmly and politely answering a call (operator).

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

Its one continuous statement, little to no pause: "Get those bitches/switches over here, now go get em". and then after a pause its "Can I help you?". all the same voice.

Nope. The timbre of the voices could not be any different. Same for the volume. One is screaming (Dylan); the other is calmly and politely answering a call (operator).

I disagree entirely, to me it clearly sound like the same voice all the time. Neither is screaming if you ask me.

We need a better quality audio, or someone who's an expert at clearing up audio files. Because with this we are all clutching at straws and making educated guesses at best. I'm very critical about the validity of trying to analyze it. Everyone is hearing different things and none of us can be certain what's being said by an operator and what's being said in CHS.

This relaly is little more than an elaborate communal ghost-box experience.

Sabratha wrote:

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

Its one continuous statement, little to no pause: "Get those bitches/switches over here, now go get em". and then after a pause its "Can I help you?". all the same voice.

Nope. The timbre of the voices could not be any different. Same for the volume. One is screaming (Dylan); the other is calmly and politely answering a call (operator).

I disagree entirely, to me it clearly sound like the same voice all the time. Neither is screaming if you ask me.

We need a better quality audio, or someone who's an expert at clearing up audio files. Because with this we are all clutching at straws and making educated guesses at best. I'm very critical about the validity of trying to analyze it. Everyone is hearing different things and none of us can be certain what's being said by an operator and what's being said in CHS.

EDIT for snarkiness.

I will see what I can do about getting a clean (er) audio file. It's pretty obvious the way it is already though, to be honest.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

No it's only you that is "clutching at straws.

Take a chill pill please.

Sabratha wrote:

Gustopoet2 wrote:

No it's only you that is "clutching at straws.

Take a chill pill please.

Sorry Sabratha -- I'm having a crappy day.

No probs, no hard feelings.

I was just voicing my opinions about this whole audio interpretation - and I meant everyone's attempts including my own.

Sabratha wrote:

No probs, no hard feelings.

I was just voicing my opinions about this whole audio interpretation - and I meant everyone's attempts including my own.

Well, I feel pretty darned solid about my interpretation of the tape. But I see your point. It is annoying at times trying to hear through all of the static and chatter.

Here is a version of the tape that may be more clear for those of you who have not been able to hear Dylan yelling "Those bitches are still right over there!"

It happens @ 5:05 right after the operator says "OK." Right after Dylan screaming, you hear an operator say "Get under the desk, OK?" -- that is at around 5:07.  

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Here is a version of the tape that may be more clear for those of you who have not been able to hear Dylan yelling "Those bitches are still right over there!"

It happens @ 5:05 right after the operator says "OK." Right after Dylan screaming, you hear an operator say "Get under the desk, OK?" -- that is at around 5:07.  

Maybe I'm deaf, but I honestly can't hear it.

eli27 wrote:

Maybe I'm deaf, but I honestly can't hear it.

It takes a little time. I probably listened to the recording 25 times before I heard it. Now I can hear it even without headphones on a pair of crappy speakers.

It helps if you have Dylan's yell in mind. Listen to Dylan's rant in "Hitmen for Hire" or "Car Wax Commercial" -- maybe that will make it easier.

@ 5:06 Dylan's voice is the only thing other than static. He is screaming, but the volume of his voice is faint because he is not right next to the phone or the receiver is angled the wrong way to fully pick up his voice.

He is uber-excited so it all blurs by in a flash "Aaaahbitchesarestillrightoverhere!"

I promise you: it is there.

There is no way you can tell that Dylan is saying anything specific in the call at that time.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

4:58 They walk in, Eric orders "Get up!" Shoots at Todd.

5:08 Dylan yells "EVERYBODY GET UP...NOW!"

5:24 Dylan whoops about shooting Kyle.

5:27  "Hey boy."

[b]"Hey boy!" returned Eric. "Assume as much, yeah. Don't worry, you'll all be dead within a couple of minutes."

It is a dispatcher talking to Captain Boyd. If you look at 015917 in the 11K, there is a call to or from a Captain Boyd at this time. It lasts for one minute.

The timeline of the call is exactly compatible with the time frame covered by the leaked part of the call that features the "Hey Boyd" comment.

lasttrain wrote:

There is no way you can tell that Dylan is saying anything specific in the call at that time.

There is no way you can make that determination.

lasttrain wrote:

It is a dispatcher talking to Captain Boyd.  If you look at 015917 in the 11K, there is a call to or from a Captain Boyd at this time. It lasts for one minute.

The timeline of the call is exactly compatible with the time frame covered by the leaked part of the call that features the "Hey Boyd"
comment.

Via SororityAlpha:

The 911 Log 015917 shows:

11:27:50-11:55:16 Teacher in school Library/gunshots in hall-library

11.35.09 11.35.54 Captain Boyd


Patti's 911 call -- Hey Boy! is heard at 4:34 seconds into the call -- that puts the time @ 11:32:24

Boyd's call didn't come in until 11:35:09


Even if you subtract 2 minutes & 46 seconds to coincide with the OFFICIAL timeline:

Patti's call [OFFICIAL Timeline adjustment] 11:25:04-11:52:30
Captain Boyd [OFFICIAL Timeline adjustment] 11:32:23

Hey Boy! heard @ 4:34 into Patti's call @ 11:29:38 -- still not in time for Cpt Boyd's call


** Boyd's call doesn't line up to the time of what is said in the Library


Sorry, you are once again misinformed.

Read more closely on 015917 Gusto--"Note: Estimated times only. Used as an approximate guide in locating sections. Not all calls are included."

The people who constructed p. 15917 were not exact in labeling it as 11:35:09. That was only their estimate. Also, not all were included.

The "Hey Boyd" attribution to Eric is one of the worst misinterpretations of any Columbine evidence online. The clarity is so crystal clear that it is obviously someone in the room with the dispatcher. You could barely hear Eric scream "Get Up!" through the phone when he was quite close to Patti. You don't hear any other statements he makes clearly. But the "Hey Boy!" is supposed to be him? Did he walk right up to Patti and whisper it in her ear?

I am really looking forward to the moment when this obviously ridiculous myth dies.

lasttrain wrote:

I am really looking forward to the moment when this obviously ridiculous myth dies.

And I'm looking forward to the moment you stop cherry-picking evidence. Doubt either of us will ever rest satisfied. You said in your original "Boyd" post that the times matched up "exactly." So why now claim "estimated times only?"



You obviously have an opinion and look for evidence that corroborates it. I am the opposite. I try to look at the evidence first and then decide. I have not taken a position on the "Hey boy!" comment. I have simply stated the evidence as I understand it. Clearly, the evidence we have does not support your position. I am not claiming we have evidence to prove it was Eric; I am claiming I see no evidence to demonstrate it was Boyd. sororityalpha provided evidence that the Boyd call does not match the chronology you claim for the incident so I am going to go with the facts as we have them rather than your admittedly spirited (if likely spurious) claims.

lasttrain wrote:

The "Hey Boyd" attribution to Eric is one of the worst misinterpretations of any Columbine evidence online.  The clarity is so crystal clear that it is obviously someone in the room with the dispatcher.

I disagree. The boys were moving through the library and Patti was re-positioning herself at the same time. The "Get up!" came while she was still holding the phone to her ear.

Sound waves do very odd things sometimes.

It's clear that we disagree on a great many topics. The one consistent thing in all of the disagreements, if you will forgive my saying so, is you seldom, if ever, provide any evidence or documentation for your assertions.

Please cite a single shred of evidence that shows this is Boyd being paged and not Eric talking.

Well, I'm not sure. But the "Hey boy/boyd" sound relaly does seem much louder than everything else. My impression is that its likley an operator, hence the loudness (especially since later screams on teh tape still seem pretty quiet in comparison to the boy/boyd comment). But perhaps the shooter was just standing very near when he said that.

Sabratha wrote:

Well, I'm not sure. But the "Hey boy/boyd" sound relaly does seem much louder than everything else. My impression is that its likley an operator, hence the loudness (especially since later screams on teh tape still seem pretty quiet in comparison to the boy/boyd comment). But perhaps the shooter was just standing very near when he said that.

It does sound like it could be a dispatcher but so far we don't have any evidence to back up that assertion. The evidence we have suggests that the chronology doesn't quite match up. The volume of the voice does not match up either, as you and lasttrain have correctly pointed out. It is impossible to say for certain. Luckily it is not a point of tremendous importance. I think we can all agree that whether or not the voice recording is Eric, the "Hey boy" thing is correct in spirit to match up with the kinds of taunts the boys were making during the lib. shootings. So maybe it is Eric; maybe is isn't. If someone can find evidence to sway the argument one way or the other, great. If not, no big deal. There are plenty of comments we know they made. Enough to get a feel for the scene as it played out.

I'm mostly concerned about the volume of the "hey boy/d" thing. I'm no sound guru, but its just so much louder than pretty much everything esle we know for sure is coming from the library - gunshots "Help me!" cries etc. I'd assume the "help me!" cries in particular woudl be louder in comparison, as it does seem like these are shouted out very loud. The "hey boy/d" comment in comparison seems to be said in a much calmer, controlled manner, but still comes off as louder.

Then again, maybe its the case of distance or the position of the headphone? Hell knows.

I'm still not getting it. Using moderatly expensive, and good, bluetooth on ear Sennheiser headphones. Not denying its there though, just finding it frustrating that I cannot hear anything.

Sabratha wrote:

I'm mostly concerned about the volume of the "hey boy/d" thing. I'm no sound guru, but its just so much louder than pretty much everything esle we know for sure is coming from the library - gunshots "Help me!" cries etc. I'd assume the "help me!" cries in particular woudl be louder in comparison, as it does seem like these are shouted out very loud. The "hey boy/d" comment in comparison seems to be said in a much calmer, controlled manner, but still comes off as louder.

That sounds about right. The only thing that doesn't make sense is the mismatched chronology. If it is "Hey boy!" it's by far the loudest phrase from either of the two boys that's on the tape.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

I'm mostly concerned about the volume of the "hey boy/d" thing. I'm no sound guru, but its just so much louder than pretty much everything esle we know for sure is coming from the library - gunshots "Help me!" cries etc. I'd assume the "help me!" cries in particular woudl be louder in comparison, as it does seem like these are shouted out very loud. The "hey boy/d" comment in comparison seems to be said in a much calmer, controlled manner, but still comes off as louder.

That sounds about right. The only thing that doesn't make sense is the mismatched chronology. If it is "Hey boy!" it's by far the loudest phrase from either of the two boys that's on the tape.

Yeah that's my point. If the "hey boy" is coming relaly from the library, then I just don't see a reason why this would be so loud on the recording. Surely the "Help me!" cries should be louder.

Then again, perhaps the "Hey boy!" comment was made by Eric when he was standing just above Patti on the other sound of the counter. But the placement in spae wouldn't make much sense then - if the comment was directed at Kyle, shouldn't it be spoken by someone near him and facing him, instead of by the counter?

Dunno, just in my opinion the "hey boy!" interpretations raises up far more questions and uncertainties than does the "hey Boyd!" interpretation. When in doubt, use Ockham's razor and that's why I find it easier to assume that it was more likely "Hey Boyd!".

Sabratha wrote:

When in doubt, use Ockham's razor and that's why I find it easier to assume that it was more likely "Hey Boyd!".

Exactly.

hey there - anybody / any_bodies - huuuh - nuh-uh;

logically speaking: absolutely (--> * pointing @ gustoPoet_no_2!!)

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