The Biggest Question

Other than the obvious "Why did they do it?" -- what do you think is the biggest unanswered question (or questions) about Columbine?

Here are two of mine:

1) Did they test a propane bomb prior to NBK?

2) Why/how was the Browns' search warrant "misplaced" by Jeffco and never acted upon?

My biggest question has always been: how the hell did they not get caught? Given everything we know, they should have been busted. It almost seems meant to be, so what kind of ungodly force would allow it? Or was it just a whole lot of blind luck on their part. Yeah that's kind of going a little to deep. But it is one of my biggest questions. I think the why of what they did is right there, staring us in the face, It's just a matter of putting it all together.

Honestly, I think we all look into it a bit more than we should trying to seek answers.

They both had an idea that many people have had before, doesn't really matter who had it first - the difference is from that topic LPorter put on the other day - Eric & Dylan had balls.

But, to play the game we're on in this thead...

Q. How did nobody see it coming (parents, friends, teachers etc).

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

Honestly, I think we all look into it a bit more than we should trying to seek answers.

They both had an idea that many people have had before, doen't really matter who had it first - the difference is from that topic LPorter put on the other day - Eric & Dylan had balls.

It was alot more than just having the courage to carry through with it. Eric had a single minded determination, he was obsessed with doing it. Dylan, imo, was extremely apathetic, I think at that point he didn't care what happened. There's more at play there than just simply them having the balls to do it, where others haven't.

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

But, to play the game we're on in this thead...

Q. How did nobody see it coming (parents, friends, teachers etc).

I think people did see it coming.. they just didn't have the authority, weren't motivated to act on it or took the path of least resistance &/or settled on "this won't go anywhere real".


The most glaring head shaker of course would be the Jeffco PD.. you have to go back to Jeffrey Dahmer's victim being returned to him by the Milwaukee police after running from Dahmer's apartment naked to find a better example of the authorities dropping the ball.

Who else, if anyone, knew what was going to happen?

I firmly believe that someone knew that Eric and Dylan were planning *something*.

LPorter101 wrote:

Who else, if anyone, knew what was going to happen?

I firmly believe that someone knew that Eric and Dylan were planning *something*.

Leaning on "something" vs the actual NBK,

I think there were several people who knew E&D were very high risks for a life changing act.

Harris' father
Brown family
Multitudes of friends

How much others knew we'll never know most likely, but just as an example Chris Morris was pretty motivated to help the PD pin down the kid who sold the guns via Black Jack relationships. I believe a "NBK type day" was talked about for years among TCM'ers, mostly in a coping way. I'm just not sure who & how many really believed it was more sh!t talking & a release of anger vs reality.

Fatheroftwo wrote:

LPorter101 wrote:

Who else, if anyone, knew what was going to happen?

I firmly believe that someone knew that Eric and Dylan were planning *something*.

Leaning on "something" vs the actual NBK,

I think there were several people who knew E&D were very high risks for a life changing act.

Harris' father
Brown family
Multitudes of friends

How much others knew we'll never know most likely, but just as an example Chris Morris was pretty motivated to help the PD pin down the kid who sold the guns via Black Jack relationships.  I believe a "NBK type day" was talked about for years among TCM'ers, mostly in a coping way.  I'm just not sure who & how many really believed it was more sh!t talking & a release of anger vs reality.

I've been told that, on the day after the massacre, the three names being bandied about were:

* Chris Morris
* Joe Stair
* Brooks Brown

Not long after the massacre, Brooks went to some event and found the level of hostility directed toward him so palpable that he left.

Didn't one of their friends fail a lie detector test? I can't remember right now but maybe Nate Dykeman? So they'd talked about it plenty. Whether anyone actually thought they would really do it is debatable.

aubre wrote:

Didn't one of their friends fail a lie detector test? I can't remember right now but maybe Nate Dykeman? So they'd talked about it plenty. Whether anyone actually thought they would really do it is debatable.

Yes, it was Nate who failed the lie detector test.

I don't think they tested the propane bombs. In fact, I think there was a lot of very optimistic estimation of the bomb damage from Eric and Dylan, as well as the authorities. The method for detonating the propane bombs would have not been very effective, aside from the fact that the timers they made failed. I'm not sure what timers they used, but it was reported that they would have never worked at all.

Also, they fully filled the propane tanks, which took up the space that would have been needed to generate the vapor to cause the explosive damage. Ironically, the fully filled propane tanks actually made them that much safer. This pretty much goes for most flammable liquid storage vessels.

I have been searching high and low for a source regarding the estimated damage(computer models) that the propane bombs would have caused. The figure that gets tossed around a lot is that the bombs would have collapsed the library onto the cafeteria. I don't believe this for three reasons:

1. Propane doesn't have enough explosive force to level a building. Subsequent fire damage maybe, but the building was mostly stucco, glass and metal.
2. The tanks tend to fail in a way that does not generate shrapnel in all directions. They usually blow up the bottom first.
3. Most of the exterior wall was glass. This would have given way, and expelled much of the explosive force, long before there was enough internal structural damage to cause failure of the support beams and load bearing walls.

If you search images of exploding propane tanks, most o what you will see is damaged cars and structure fires. If BBQ propane tanks could really do that much damage when detonated, they would not allow them to be used and transported like they are.

Reference:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

As to whether people knew beforehand, I think they did. The problem is, everyone had a little piece of a very big picture. In fact, even Deputy Garner was approached by Officer Gutierrez regarding Eric's general behavior and personality at school. This was months before the shooting. There were even reports of other students joking about how, if anyone were to shoot up the school, it would be Eric and Dylan. After the fact, the evidence started coming together.

I don't think they tested the bombs beforehand either. They were expecting the bombs to just blow up when the timers went off (that's the impression I've always had anyways). If they tested them first, they would have known it would take a great deal of time to heat the tanks up to the point of explosion. It wouldn't have been instantaneously.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

1) Did they test a propane bomb prior to NBK?

Not to my knowledge. No police records suggest so either iirc.
As far as I know the timers were built according to some online manual/tutorial. Now I'm somewhat convinced that E&D knew its an amateurish attempt and at least were aware of the possibility that the bombs will be a flop. There's an alleged quote from Eric from the Basement Tapes where he supposedly mentions his fears that sprinklers will interfere and that he needs a dry environment for "my fires".

Gustopoet2 wrote:

2) Why/how was the Browns' search warrant "misplaced" by Jeffco and never acted upon?

I guess it was not treated seriously (Jeffco had numerous reports of pipebombs detonated in the area "for fun", E&D were not the only ones building these). Also indolence, lack of professional altitudes, bureaucracy and a case of the "right hand not knowing what the left hand does". Poor communication within Jeffco and between Jeffco and other institutions.

Jenn wrote:

I don't think they tested the bombs beforehand either. They were expecting the bombs to just blow up when the timers went off (that's the impression I've always had anyways). If they tested them first, they would have known it would take a great deal of time to heat the tanks up to the point of explosion. It wouldn't have been instantaneously.

Why would they set the car-bombs to go of 1 min, after the cafeteria bombs though?

Makes more sense that they did know it would take a few minutes. That's also why Dylan would have run into the caf. after the igniters failed, to see if the gas cans, at least, had caught on fire.

Also why they tried to detonate it with a Molotov.

They did not know it would take a few minutes, because they specifically mentioned killing 250 students. A device that took a few minutes would not do that, because everyone would run.

At 11:46:25 you see Eric running away from an ignited flammable encasing one of the tanks. He would not have run if he thought he had a few minutes.

radaddio wrote:

I don't think they tested the propane bombs.

You are exactly right in all of your points.  You might be interested in my post here:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I always wondered if judy brown had a reputation as someone who made mountains out of molehills. If she did then that might be one reason she wasn't taken at her word by mr.Haris. It would have been a case of the boy who cried wolf in action. That of course doesn't explian how the report got lost, but it might explian why mr.Haris didn't do anything after talking to her.

lasttrain wrote:

They did not know it would take a few minutes, because they specifically mentioned killing 250 students.  A device that took a few minutes would not do that, because everyone would run.

At 11:46:25 you see Eric running away from an ignited flammable encasing one of the tanks.  He would not have run if he thought he had a few minutes.

This.

They were expecting the timers to go off and the bombs to explode and kill the students instantly. They didn't realize that it would take up to 20 minutes to heat the tanks to the point of explosion and that's saying that a fire started and stayed lit. No one in their right mind would stay in the school if they saw a fire.

And also, they thought those bombs would explode and the unhurt children would start running out into the parking lot which would take about a minute to do and as soon as they got out there the other bombs in the cars would explode killing them.

Why were they worried the sprinkler would put out the fire(s)?

I think this is exactly right. Even Dylan's Mom said at her first interview with the police that "Judy doesn't like a lot of people." when asked about the Brown's reports to them.

fantasykingdom985 wrote:

I always wondered if judy brown had a reputation as someone who made mountains out of molehills. If she did then that might be one reason she wasn't taken at her word by mr.Haris. It would have been a case of the boy who cried wolf  in action. That of course doesn't explian how the report got lost, but it might explian why mr.Haris didn't do anything after talking to her.

PaintItBlack wrote:

I think this is exactly right. Even Dylan's Mom said at her first interview with the police that "Judy doesn't like a lot of people." when asked about the Brown's reports to them.

fantasykingdom985 wrote:

I always wondered if judy brown had a reputation as someone who made mountains out of molehills. If she did then that might be one reason she wasn't taken at her word by mr.Haris. It would have been a case of the boy who cried wolf  in action. That of course doesn't explian how the report got lost, but it might explian why mr.Haris didn't do anything after talking to her.

I don't really like Judy Brown, she's seems like one of those woman who sit around talking shit about everyone, under the pretense of being "concerned" about them. Ugh met plenty of those types.

I have mixed feelings on the Browns.
I have been angry and annoyed by a lot of their statements and actions in the past.
I hated how they came out and trashed the Klebold's publically in 2004 after they fell out with them.
Judy was constantly calling the police on Eric trying to get him in trouble. I believe this was before the shooting started. Some of the things she reported him for were petty.
He knew this too. I think it only made him angrier although of course I do not blame her for what happened .
On the other hand, they have been one of the very few Columbine related families' to see Cullen's book for what it is and speak out publically against it.
I have to give them credit for that.

aubre wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I think this is exactly right. Even Dylan's Mom said at her first interview with the police that "Judy doesn't like a lot of people." when asked about the Brown's reports to them.

fantasykingdom985 wrote:

I always wondered if judy brown had a reputation as someone who made mountains out of molehills. If she did then that might be one reason she wasn't taken at her word by mr.Haris. It would have been a case of the boy who cried wolf  in action. That of course doesn't explian how the report got lost, but it might explian why mr.Haris didn't do anything after talking to her.

I don't really like Judy Brown, she's seems like one of those woman who sit around talking shit about everyone, under the pretense of being "concerned" about them.  Ugh met plenty of those types.

On the other hand maybe if they had of investigated him more even if the charges were bogus, they might have found out about the plot and lives could have been saved.

That makes a lot of scence. I think that Judy brown needed to pick her battles. She overpalyed her hand with complaining about Eric. That made it a lot easier for him to say to his parents that she hated him and was trying to get him in trouble. I also wonder if she complianed to the police about a lot of silly things; so that when she actully had a serious complant it just went in one ear and out the other with jeffco. I sometimes think that if another parent who didn't have a reputaion as a complainer made the call to jeffco, then something would have been done.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Why would they set the car-bombs to go of 1 min, after the cafeteria bombs though?

You sure it was 1 minute and not 1 hour?

PaintItBlack wrote:

Judy was constantly calling the police on Eric trying to get him in trouble. I believe this was before the shooting started. Some of the things she reported him for were petty.

Yes, there were instances when the Brows had very substantial reasons to call the police, but I do get the feeling that some of their other reports and the way they handled it made the Police treat them as somewhat obsessed and "outr to get Eric". Wayne also seen it this way.

Sabratha wrote:

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Why would they set the car-bombs to go of 1 min, after the cafeteria bombs though?

You sure it was 1 minute and not 1 hour?

Yes, I'm sure.

PaintItBlack wrote:

I hated how they came out and trashed the Klebold's publically in 2004 after they fell out with them.

They did?

PaintItBlack wrote:

I have mixed feelings on the Browns.
I have been angry and annoyed by a lot of their statements and actions in the past.
I hated how they came out and trashed the Klebold's publically in 2004 after they fell out with them.
Judy was constantly calling the police on Eric trying to get him in trouble. I believe this was before the shooting started. Some of the things she reported him for were petty.
He knew this too. I think it only made him angrier although of course I do not blame her for what happened .
On the other hand, they have been one of the very few Columbine related families' to see Cullen's book for what it is and speak out publically against it.
I have to give them credit for that.

aubre wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I think this is exactly right. Even Dylan's Mom said at her first interview with the police that "Judy doesn't like a lot of people." when asked about the Brown's reports to them.

fantasykingdom985 wrote:

I always wondered if judy brown had a reputation as someone who made mountains out of molehills. If she did then that might be one reason she wasn't taken at her word by mr.Haris. It would have been a case of the boy who cried wolf  in action. That of course doesn't explian how the report got lost, but it might explian why mr.Haris didn't do anything after talking to her.

I don't really like Judy Brown, she's seems like one of those woman who sit around talking shit about everyone, under the pretense of being "concerned" about them.  Ugh met plenty of those types.

Seriously? I know you are a big fan of Eric and will defend pretty much anything said against him (despite him being a murderer) - petty or not - Judy had Eric nailed on for what he was - unfortunately nobody would listen until it was too late. Way too late.

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I have mixed feelings on the Browns.
I have been angry and annoyed by a lot of their statements and actions in the past.
I hated how they came out and trashed the Klebold's publically in 2004 after they fell out with them.
Judy was constantly calling the police on Eric trying to get him in trouble. I believe this was before the shooting started. Some of the things she reported him for were petty.
He knew this too. I think it only made him angrier although of course I do not blame her for what happened .
On the other hand, they have been one of the very few Columbine related families' to see Cullen's book for what it is and speak out publically against it.
I have to give them credit for that.

aubre wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I think this is exactly right. Even Dylan's Mom said at her first interview with the police that "Judy doesn't like a lot of people." when asked about the Brown's reports to them.

fantasykingdom985 wrote:

I always wondered if judy brown had a reputation as someone who made mountains out of molehills. If she did then that might be one reason she wasn't taken at her word by mr.Haris. It would have been a case of the boy who cried wolf  in action. That of course doesn't explian how the report got lost, but it might explian why mr.Haris didn't do anything after talking to her.

I don't really like Judy Brown, she's seems like one of those woman who sit around talking shit about everyone, under the pretense of being "concerned" about them.  Ugh met plenty of those types.

Seriously? I know you are a big fan of Eric and will defend pretty much anything said against him (despite him being a murderer) - petty or not - Judy had Eric nailed on for what he was - unfortunately nobody would listen until it was too late. Way too late.

Geez man, I just don't like her personality. I'm not a fan of Eric, I find him the more interesting one, but a "fan" I think you're taking that a little too far.

Yea, I agree with that one. Judy had every right to call the police on Eric. Not only did Eric threaten to kill her son (I think any parent in their right mind would call the police if someone threatened to kill their son) but Eric was also throwing things at Brooks' car and hanging off the side of her car screaming and threatening her and acting like a lunatic.

Judy wasn't just 'trying to get Eric in trouble'. The things Eric were doing were wrong and illegal and maybe if someone at the police station did their job, they could have prevented Columbine from happening.

I too am wondering where the Brown's trashed the Klebold's in public after 2004? I've never read anything about that. Does anyone have any concrete evidence on this or anything I could read backing this up? Everything I've seen the Brown's were always decent towards the Klebold's.

Of course she had every right to do so, but if she had picked her battles her complaints would have been taken more seriously Instead of there goes judy trying to get our son in trouble again. My theory is that if eric had done that stuf to a kid whose mom was not seen as a complianer the compliant would have had more weight. We know now with hindsight that judy was right, but even she didn't know the full extent of their plans. Back then the tought of a columbine scale school shooting was incomprehinsable to most people. I think that if this was happening today a complaint shuch as she made even from a known complianer would be seen to.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I do not think [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] was referring to you. I believe they were referring to members who have openly admitted to being a fan of Eric's.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], is there any proof though that the police didn't act on this because it was Judy Brown doing the complaining? Say it was some other random kids Mother complaining that Eric was going to kill her son, you think the police would have arrested Eric or at least questioned him and searched his website? It was always my understanding that they intended on doing this but a cop got sloppy and misplaced the paperwork and never got around to it. Eric WAS supposed to at least be brought in for questioning. You don't think this would have gotten 'misplaced' if it was another parent?

Jenn wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I do not think [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] was referring to you. I believe they were referring to members who have openly admitted to being a fan of Eric's.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], is there any proof though that the police didn't act on this because it was Judy Brown doing the complaining? Say it was some other random kids Mother complaining that Eric was going to kill her son, you think the police would have arrested Eric or at least questioned him and searched his website? It was always my understanding that they intended on doing this but a cop got sloppy and misplaced the paperwork and never got around to it. Eric WAS supposed to at least be brought in for questioning. You don't think this would have gotten 'misplaced' if it was another parent?

Oh ok, maybe, he quoted me and left me going I know I've talked about him a number of times but I thought that's why were here.

I see your point, however I am thinking more of E&D's parents not taking her seriously. I think the police were thinking of investigating, but got distracted by another case. I think that so much time had passed by the time they got back to it that they thought if Eric was going to do something he would have done it already. Nowadays they most likely would have still investigated, but back then teenagers were not excatly known for having long planning stages for murder. E&D were the first teenagers to have taken so long in planing a school shooting. Most school shootings until 4/20/99 seemed to not have much planing.

aubre wrote:

Jenn wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I do not think [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] was referring to you. I believe they were referring to members who have openly admitted to being a fan of Eric's.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], is there any proof though that the police didn't act on this because it was Judy Brown doing the complaining? Say it was some other random kids Mother complaining that Eric was going to kill her son, you think the police would have arrested Eric or at least questioned him and searched his website? It was always my understanding that they intended on doing this but a cop got sloppy and misplaced the paperwork and never got around to it. Eric WAS supposed to at least be brought in for questioning. You don't think this would have gotten 'misplaced' if it was another parent?

Oh ok, maybe, he quoted me and left me going I know I've talked about him a number of times but I thought that's why were here.

No, you're absolutely right. It is why we're all here and anyone can share whatever thoughts/opinions they have. You can discuss whatever you'd like about Eric. But I just didn't want you to feel as though someone was accusing you of being a 'fan' when you've never said or even hinted around that you were one. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] has openly admitted to being a fan of Eric's so I believe [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] was referring to her.

I can see how you'd easily get confused though because the conversation quotes are out of order. I'll have to try and fix that up so that the conversation makes more sense. The response to you was above your comment instead of below it, so when RC responded, it looked like the quote and response was going to you.

fantasykingdom985 wrote:

I see your point, however I am thinking more of  E&D's parents not taking her seriously. I think the police were thinking of investigating, but got distracted by another case. I think that so much time had passed by the time they got back to it that they thought if Eric was going to do something he would have done it already. Nowadays they most likely would have still investigated, but back then teenagers were not excatly known for having long planning stages for murder. E&D were the first teenagers to have taken so long in planing a school shooting. Most school shootings until 4/20/99 seemed to not have much planing.

Ah OK, I was a bit confused with what you were saying. I thought you were saying that the police didn't take Judy Brown seriously and I was thinking that the police can't just not follow up on her claims because of who she was. Now that you've said Dylan and/or Eric's parents, that makes much more sense. I don't think the Brown's ever had a problem with Dylan but yes, they did go to Eric's parents quite a bit about the things Eric was doing. Ultimately I think Judy went to the police because she felt that the Harris' weren't disciplining Eric. She even said something along the lines of Eric having his own parents fooled but that he wouldn't fool her.

I do think the Brown's were way too involved with interviews and talking about Columbine after it happened though. I mean, Judy was a friend of Susan's and within hours or days of the shooting happening, she was talking publicly about how the Klebold's reacted/what they did and where they went the night of the shooting, etc. I think that if she was really their 'friend' she should have just kept quiet and gave the Klebold's some privacy, not telling the entire world what they were going through. Regardless of Dylan being a murderer, their entire world was just torn apart and they lost a child and not only did they lose a child but they lost the entire impression of what they thought he was. That could not be easy, you know? And here your 'friends' that sat with you the entire day waiting to hear if your son was alive is off talking to the media hours later.

So I guess it's fair to say I too have complex feelings about the Brown's.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I argree about the brown's atitude after the shooting, they seemed to be saying that they knew this would happen and we told you so. I just kept thinking that all they cared about was their 15 miniutes of fame, and being able to say that they were right about Eric.

Absolutely. See for yourself:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

LPorter101 wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I hated how they came out and trashed the Klebold's publically in 2004 after they fell out with them.

They did?

Yes, seriously. Judy Brown once saw Eric in line at the grocery store buying a gun magazine which is perfectly legal and ran home and called the cops on him.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


I don't care that he turned out to be a murderer , I call that petty.
She called the cops on Eric many times trying to get him in trouble and her calls were mostly ignored. If many of them were like that I can see why.
And I don't see her as a prophet since she believed for years in the whole Evil Eric /Innocent Lamb Dylan scenario.

As with most things we have to agree to disagree.

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I have mixed feelings on the Browns.
I have been angry and annoyed by a lot of their statements and actions in the past.
I hated how they came out and trashed the Klebold's publically in 2004 after they fell out with them.
Judy was constantly calling the police on Eric trying to get him in trouble. I believe this was before the shooting started. Some of the things she reported him for were petty.
He knew this too. I think it only made him angrier although of course I do not blame her for what happened .
On the other hand, they have been one of the very few Columbine related families' to see Cullen's book for what it is and speak out publically against it.
I have to give them credit for that.

aubre wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I think this is exactly right. Even Dylan's Mom said at her first interview with the police that "Judy doesn't like a lot of people." when asked about the Brown's reports to them.

fantasykingdom985 wrote:

I always wondered if judy brown had a reputation as someone who made mountains out of molehills. If she did then that might be one reason she wasn't taken at her word by mr.Haris. It would have been a case of the boy who cried wolf  in action. That of course doesn't explian how the report got lost, but it might explian why mr.Haris didn't do anything after talking to her.

I don't really like Judy Brown, she's seems like one of those woman who sit around talking shit about everyone, under the pretense of being "concerned" about them.  Ugh met plenty of those types.

Seriously? I know you are a big fan of Eric and will defend pretty much anything said against him (despite him being a murderer) - petty or not - Judy had Eric nailed on for what he was - unfortunately nobody would listen until it was too late. Way too late.

PaintItBlack wrote:

Absolutely. See for yourself:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

LPorter101 wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I hated how they came out and trashed the Klebold's publically in 2004 after they fell out with them.

They did?

Wow. I guess you're right.

JUDY BROWN, FORMER FRIEND OF THE KLEBOLDS: I‘m surprised and very disgusted by her comments. I am ashamed to have said that I was her friend. These comments are very unacceptable. I'm just shocked. I am shocked at the coldness and the lack of compassion.

That is harsh.

J. BROWN: We were good friends before and I will tell you though we had had a falling out because I believed that she should speak with the parents of the kids that were murdered. We tried to arrange that because they said we don‘t need to go to court, we just want answers and they were willing to do it outside the court system. These are not angry, out of control parents. They just want answers and the Klebolds refused to do it. They refused to sit with them. They refused to do it.

ABRAMS: And as a result of that, your friendship ended?

J. BROWN: That‘s right.

It's not hard to understand why the Browns are still unhappy about the way that Jeffco handled things before NBK ... but Judy Brown has some nerve to say something like that on national television.

That being said, I can see where she's coming from ... neither the Klebolds nor the Harrises have thrown themselves on the ground, begging for mercy. But how would the Browns have coped if Brooks had murdered children, and then offed himself, in front of the whole world?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], that is what I ment when I said she should have picked her battles. In the example you gave about the magazine, what did she think the police would do, send out the SWAT team? Most kids that buy gun magazines are not planing to shoot up their school. Judy was very right about there being something wrong with Eric, but it was stupid complaints like that; that made her valid complaints go in one ear and out the other. Because she made complaints like that people thought she was crying wolf. I agree that it made her look really petty.

I am talking about the incident where she saw him at the grocery story buying a gun magazine and ran home and called the cops on him. He wasn't breaking the law then.
Yes , they did trash them after 2004.They had a falling out. I posted a link about this to L Porter, but here it is again:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Randy has said some unkind things about them in public as well.

Jenn wrote:

Yea, I agree with that one. Judy had every right to call the police on Eric. Not only did Eric threaten to kill her son (I think any parent in their right mind would call the police if someone threatened to kill their son) but Eric was also throwing things at Brooks' car and hanging off the side of her car screaming and threatening her and acting like a lunatic.

Judy wasn't just 'trying to get Eric in trouble'. The things Eric were doing were wrong and illegal and maybe if someone at the police station did their job, they could have prevented Columbine from happening.

I too am wondering where the Brown's trashed the Klebold's in public after 2004? I've never read anything about that. Does anyone have any concrete evidence on this or anything I could read backing this up? Everything I've seen the Brown's were always decent towards the Klebold's.

I'm actually a sympathizer, not so much a fan.
But to people who have a problem with people like myself, that's splitting hairs.

Jenn wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I do not think [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] was referring to you. I believe they were referring to members who have openly admitted to being a fan of Eric's.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], is there any proof though that the police didn't act on this because it was Judy Brown doing the complaining? Say it was some other random kids Mother complaining that Eric was going to kill her son, you think the police would have arrested Eric or at least questioned him and searched his website? It was always my understanding that they intended on doing this but a cop got sloppy and misplaced the paperwork and never got around to it. Eric WAS supposed to at least be brought in for questioning. You don't think this would have gotten 'misplaced' if it was another parent?

Thank you LPorter for posting this so people can see it actually happened and I did have a basis for what I was saying.

LPorter101 wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

Absolutely. See for yourself:

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LPorter101 wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I hated how they came out and trashed the Klebold's publically in 2004 after they fell out with them.

They did?

Wow. I guess you're right.

JUDY BROWN, FORMER FRIEND OF THE KLEBOLDS: I‘m surprised and very disgusted by her comments. I am ashamed to have said that I was her friend. These comments are very unacceptable. I'm just shocked. I am shocked at the coldness and the lack of compassion.

That is harsh.

LPorter, Here is a public dig from Randy:

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LPorter101 wrote:

It's not hard to understand why the Browns are still unhappy about the way that Jeffco handled things before NBK ... but Judy Brown has some nerve to say something like that on national television.

That being said, I can see where she's coming from ... neither the Klebolds nor the Harrises have thrown themselves on the ground, begging for mercy. But how would the Browns have coped if Brooks had murdered children, and then offed himself, in front of the whole world?

It is very sad that no one listened to Judy, but I think that it was a combination of her being a complainer and the fact that 1999 was a more inocent time. In 1999 while there had been school shootings, there had not been one whith as much planing or as many people killed. Until Columbine happeed a school shooting on that scale was unthinkable to most people. We look back and say duh jeffco , E&D should have been brought in right away, but until 4/20/99 the reports that Judy made would not have been as big as a red flag as they would be today. At best it would be Eric just blowing off some steam and at worst it would just be Brooks that Eric was after in the pre columbine mind set. That in my mind is one of the saddest ironies of columbine; that until something on the scale of columbine happend, Judy's complaint would not have been given the same weight we would give it today. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I very much agree with you, but I might not have made it clear.

I can't blame them for contacting the cops about any direct actions by him against them.
Anyone has the right to do that.
However, I also believe they were looking for any excuse for a while there to try to get him in trouble because they didn't like him and were angry at him for threatening Brooks and shooting paintballs in their driveway after he and Brooks started fighting which I can understand. Eric obviously knew this and it made him angrier and more embittered at the family.
I think that is a proven fact.
No matter that he was soon to be a murderer, Eric obviously didn't appreciate someone trying to get him in trouble with the cops especially for some of the reasons they did.

fantasykingdom985 wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], that is what I ment when I said she should have picked her battles. In the example you gave about the magazine, what did she think the police would do, send out the SWAT team? Most kids that buy gun magazines are not planing to shoot up their school. Judy was very right about there being something wrong with Eric, but it was stupid complaints like that; that made her valid complaints go in one ear and out the other. Because she made complaints like that people thought she was crying wolf. I agree that it made her look really petty.