If Eric had been popular...

...would he have gone NBK? I think not.

If he had been a handsome jock, would he have gone NBK? I think not.

If he had been able to get a girl to open up her legs, even without being popular or handsome or athletic, would he have gone NBK? Maybe not.

If Susan DeWitt had made mad, passionate love to him on prom night, who knows what might have happened? (Not that I'm saying that she should have.)

(Here comes Cullen in his choo-choo to tell us Eric *was* popular.)

How unpopular was he? He wasn't at the absolute bottom of the totem pole - he was a senior, and he wasn't mentally retarded or anything like that. But he was ranked below most boys in the Class of '99, and it ate away at him.

LPorter101 wrote:

...would he have gone NBK? I think not.

If he had been a handsome jock, would he have gone NBK? I think not.

If he had been able to get a girl to open up her legs, even without being popular or handsome or athletic, would he have gone NBK? Maybe not.

If Susan DeWitt had made mad, passionate love to him on prom night, who knows what might have happened? (Not that I'm saying that she should have.)

(Here comes Cullen in his choo-choo to tell us Eric *was* popular.)

How unpopular was he? He wasn't at the absolute bottom of the totem pole - he was a senior, and he wasn't mentally retarded or anything like that. But he was ranked below most boys in the Class of '99, and it ate away at him.

Definetely not and by the way , do you think eric was sexually frustrated ? I think he was .

Would a popular Eric hang out with a Dylan?

1891 wrote:

Would a popular Eric hang out with a Dylan?

maybe not .

afrrs wrote:

1891 wrote:

Would a popular Eric hang out with a Dylan?

maybe not .

"And that short guy next to you probably should shut the fuck up too! Jesus! Eric...Harris, whatever." - Zack
"I don't like you Eric. You're a stuck up obnoxious popular little douchebag" - Dylan

In a strange alternate reality where Eric is popular.

Depends.

To go on a spree-suicide killing you need to be in some way dissatisfied with what's going on. Reasons can vary, but that fact stands.

Would being popular solve some of Eric's issues? Yes, probably. All of them? Nope.
Would the sum be enough to change his "trajectory" so to speak? Only Eric could aswer that one.

One thing that seems likely is that a popular Eric would spend far more time with girls, far less with Dylan, Zach Heckler etc. So in that sense, I think its likely CHS shooting as we know it would never occur, as Dylan and Eric wouldn't probably have the opportunity to bond and join forces.


I myslef would just want to state that a simple: "oh yes certainly, no doubts Eric wouldn't do anything bad if he was popular" answer would be far off the mark. I think its a case of people trying to measure Eric with a "standard male teenager" yardstick. You will have no sensible results with that process, rest assured.
Using that yardstick consistently will always get you a "A spree suicide will never occur, its beyond normal teenage behavioral patterns" result.

I think it would have made all the difference in the world.
There is a debate about how bad E &D's lives were but one thing almost everyone agrees on is that E and D thought they were bad indeed.
To do what they did, one must lost all sense of hope.
I believe that if Eric had been popular, felt more respected, had more friends and girlfriends that he probably wouldn't have had nearly as much time to sit alone in his room stewing about things that angered him and people who put him down.
Therefore he would have felt more contented with life and more optimistic about the future.

The same probably goes for Dylan.

Eric goes so far as to say that the massacre could be prevented if people would give him more compliments. Eric had serious issues mentally, but his deadly frustration was born out of a mix of self hatred and lack of positive attention from his peers. He created the Reb character as a way of acting the way he wanted his real self to be. He wouldn't have had the need to prove himself or go down in infamy had he gotten the attention from women and people at school he craved. I'd even say that Eric didnt want to die like Dylan. He knew that to complete the attack he would have to die though. To him death was worth getting the attention he felt he deserved. Him and Dylan were two completely diffrent people with different issues. Its really amazing the boys were able to come together to plan out NBK.

I think he still would have gone through with it, even if he was at the upper echelons of CHS. He could have been a muscle bound football player with girls hanging on his every word, But there still would have been some perceived slight in his mind. There would be that one girl, or missed touch down. It would always be something with Eric. His perceptions were, literally, his enemy.

Also, Eric did most of the groundwork for the Columbine shooting. He researched gun laws, bought ammo, fuel and even took up a second job to help foot the bill for it. There are instances in the documents that look to be his attempts to "recruit" others as well.

This all leads me to believe there was a sort of inevitability to it. Sure, certain aspects might have changed. The students murdered, death count etc. I still think the core shooting would have happened regardless of his status.

LPorter101 wrote:

he was ranked below most boys in the Class of '99, and it ate away at him.

The belief that all high-school males are ranked first to last is not true of most high schools.

High schools have lots of different friend groups with their own internal pecking orders. Eric was well liked within his friend group, as evidenced by the many people in the 11K who described socializing with him.

And yes, if Eric was a completely different person, he would not have gone NBK. But if I was Vanna White I'd be turning trilons on TV. Counterfactuals prove nothing.

lasttrain wrote:

And yes, if Eric was a completely different person, he would not have gone NBK.  But if I was Vanna White I'd be turning trilons on TV.  Counterfactuals prove nothing.

My point would be that all of Eric's internal issues would not disappear if he was popular. What would change however is his circle of friends and the time he spends with that.

So to put it simply: it wouldn't be so much Eric's happiness or whatever preventing Columbine, rather it would have been a case of keeping Eric away from Dylan, hence preventing "columbine as we know it".

No reassurences Eric wouldn't do something violent on his own then or later. Same for Dylan.

True. I don't think the catalysts for a mass shooting are linear in any way. What I am certain of, is that something would have built up in his system. How he finally released it is the real question.

There are two ways of interpreting LPorter's post.

One is that Eric went NBK because he was at the bottom of the social order, was not liked, rejected by girls. I think this is a ridiculous idea.

Another is that Eric wanted to dominate everyone, saw himself as the ultimate alpha, and killed for power over others. This I agree with.

So if you are saying Eric killed because he was not at the absolute top of the food chain, I agree with you. If you are saying he killed because he just wanted to fit in the middle and couldn't--no way. He was an alpha psycho and would stop at nothing but total destruction of others.

I'm saying that he killed because he thought he was at the bottom of the food chain. While I don't think he was, and there is a lot of evidence to this regard, he still thought he was.

He also had violent and obsessive tendencies that constantly sabotaged his social and dating life.

I think it really depends if his dissatisfaction of society and a mundane day-to-day life was caused by his dissatisfaction of himself.

Being popular would probably make him feel like he got the attention and power he so desperately wanted and "deserved". He wouldn't have so much hatred towards jocks, because he'd be one of them. He'd be the one bullying, not bullied. Would he feel content with himself?

If it started with him being annoyed at society and the school system, then it would be even worse to be surrounded by those "zombies" he hated. Having a better self esteem MIGHT have fought against that resentment, I don't know. Would you really want to be the king of Littleton's CHS, its shallowness and mundane mediocrity, that Eric hated so much? Would being popular make him blind to that? Would he be "self-aware"? Do you think he'd be a happier human being if he was blind to CHS's BS? Was it metal illness, self-esteem or his choice to see the world as he did? Society had failed him in many ways, other than just popularity (but maybe these stemmed off his low status, e.g. admitting homicidal thoughts then recieving medication).

Then again, knowing that you have to obey a BS system that doesn't cater for you (it fought AGAINST him and his personal growth to "normalcy", really) is an awful realisation. But being at the top of it, controlling it, would mean he would most likely love that system. Being bullied and looked down upon probably (definitely?) gave him that mind set to hate jocks and zombies. If Eric didn't feel like society had wronged him, because people respected and thought highly of him, then he wouldn't have felt so alienated and angry.
Also, keeping Dylan away from him might have meant no one fed this anger and alienation.


Argh, sorry if this doesn't make sense, I'm arguing with myself and running in circles

Ha, I love arguing with myself : )

You bring up good points. It's true, that he might have done something else if he was more popular. If he had the power that he felt he deserved, it may have been enough.

...However, his own perceptions of him being above the rest of the zombies may have still existed regardless. He still may have been cynical about it, even if he had everything his heart desired. This would be a similar situation to the main character in Bret Easton Ellis' "American Psycho". He killed pretty much just because he could.

Very true, Eric found day to day life very frustrating. Even if he was popular, he'd still be living in the society he resented.

I think his problems his more with his place in the world rather than the world itself. He could still be angry at the world even if he was popular, but just look at some stuff he wrote in his journal:


“Maybe I just need to get laid. Maybe that’ll just change some shit around”
“I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things.”
“You people could have shown more respect, treated me better, asked for my knowledge or guidance more…. maybe I wouldn’t have been so ready to tear your fucking heads of”
“If people would give me more compliments all of this might still be avoidable . . . but probably not.”

“If people would give me more compliments all of this might still be avoidable . . . but probably not.”

His own words?

radaddio wrote:

“If people would give me more compliments all of this might still be avoidable . . . but probably not.”

His own words?

Yes, in his journal.