EDIT: Does Eric get a bad rap? (Was: I have a pro-Eric bias)

Undyne wrote:

People call Eric crazy because he murdered people and enjoyed it.

Then why isn't Dylan called 'crazy'. He enjoyed it too, if not more than Eric considering he was laughing and screaming like a madman.

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I don't want to give up on Eric because I believe that there was a lot more to him and Dylan than what he did. I hate what they did but I don't hate them and I never will.

Jenn wrote:

Undyne wrote:

People call Eric crazy because he murdered people and enjoyed it.

Then why isn't Dylan called 'crazy'. He enjoyed it too, if not more than Eric considering he was laughing and screaming like a madman.

It's the difference in the journals, if I had to guess.  People read Dylan's journal and think, "Man, this kid was so depressed and didn't think anyone understood him.  I can sort of relate to that."  People read Eric's journal and think, "Man, this kid was obnoxious and apparently thinks that Hitler was a cool dude."

Just in case it wasn't obvious, I'm not a fan of either. I just think it's clear why Dylan gets more sympathy.

Undyne wrote:

Jenn wrote:

Undyne wrote:

People call Eric crazy because he murdered people and enjoyed it.

Then why isn't Dylan called 'crazy'. He enjoyed it too, if not more than Eric considering he was laughing and screaming like a madman.

It's the difference in the journals, if I had to guess.  People read Dylan's journal and think, "Man, this kid was so depressed and didn't think anyone understood him.  I can sort of relate to that."  People read Eric's journal and think, "Man, this kid was obnoxious and apparently thinks that Hitler was a cool dude."

Just in case it wasn't obvious, I'm not a fan of either.  I just think it's clear why Dylan gets more sympathy.

If only they knew that Eric's journal was all for an audience.

Also, he seems more relatable than Dylan. Eric was bullied worse than Dylan, and time and time again shows this from what Nate said, or what Dylan himself said or even the 11k reports. Dylan comes off more as a bully. Also, Eric seemed more lonely, quiet and distant.

Sounds like both the high school you and the current you need a big dose of "don't give a f*ck". Who cares what others said to you or didn't. This is what people can never grasp when they are kids, it doesn't matter none of it matters. Some jerk treats you wrong so what it is life girls don't like you then you aren't meant to be with one of those girls. Everyone that doesn't give up finds friends and a significant other.

The point? Eric and Dylan shot and killed 13 people and planned on many more over literally f*cking nothing a month before graduation. Psychopaths not misunderstood teens.

They we're not psychopaths. I refuse to admit that. If anything... I think both of them we're horribly misguided.

You know.. some of the urges & feelings that Eric had, could have been caused by the Anti-Depressant he was prescribed. As someone with ADHD that regularly sees a shrink for medication, I've asked questions about the medications Eric once took (Zoloft & Luvox) and it's apparently not-uncommon to hear reports of homicidal or suicidal urges in small amounts of patients.

I do believe that Eric suffered from some sort of Social Anxiety Disorder. And I believe he was depressed, and felt lonely often. He was rejected so much, and truly didn't have the same opportunities as others in life.

It's heartbreaking to know these poor boys, never had a true chance at life. And I think people seem to forget that. These could have kids in your neighborhood just a few houses down, or in your little league team. They didn't come from Evil, they we're just like everyone else.. and something, something horrible happened along the line to both of them.. that obviously changed them.

And my heart breaks every time I hear a bunch of reporters pretend to know their entire life stories. All desperate to spread some sort of bias, or ratings grab shit.Those are the kinda people I'd love to see disappear or get struck by lightening. They truly contribute nothing to society, but mass confusion.. and it's a domino effect.

To the OP, I'm so sorry for what you've been through. All I can say is.. your definitely not alone.

DistantLurker wrote:

I do believe that Eric suffered from some sort of Social Anxiety Disorder.

I'm interested in why you think that. I'm pretty convinced Dylan had some form of it , but not Eric. Elaborate,please?

I'm too new to this to feel entitled to a real, informed opinion but after reading a lot of what Eric had to say, I'm inclined to agree with the OP. There are too many shared behaviors and ideas that apparently indicate Eric's psychopathy but don't factor into Dylan's diagnosis. I wonder if they really considered a different opinion here or whether they just looked for confirmation of what they already suspected about each of them. I'm glad that there are people actively questioning the official narrative. If it turns out to be wrong in the end, so be it, but I can definitely understand why someone would feel so strongly about this and it's certainly been hard for me to shake the idea, no matter how many times I read about why he must have been psychopath. Maybe that's just my own misunderstanding but who would really know for sure, other than Eric and Dylan themselves.

I don't think that Eric had been on the medication long enough to blame it. We know that they started to plan the attack after the broke into that van. The medicine hadn't been prescribed until after they broke into the van. But I have a hard time believing that the very moment he took his first pill he instantly became prone to homicidal thoughts.

Eric's journal was for an audience--and the fact that he wanted an audience to see him as a heartless killer only further proves he was a psychopath.  

None of Hare, Fuselier, Langmann, or Cullen claim that psychopathy precludes emotions.  On the contrary, Hare says that psychopaths often feel "shallow emotions" that are tiny compared to what a person with a conscience would feel.  Eric shedding tears over murdering 400 people and then trying to do it anyway is a great example of the kind of the "shallow emotion" that psychopaths feel.

Cullen: "Researchers often compare psychopaths to robots or rogue computers...That's the closest approximation of their behavior, but the metaphor lacks nuance. Psychopaths feel something; Eric seemed to show sadness when his dog was sick, and he occasionally felt twinges of regret toward humans." (p. 242-243).

In other words, textbook psychopath. Just like Dr. Peter Langman, Dr. Mary Ellen O'Toole, Dr. Frank Ochs, and Dr. Dwayne Fusilier say.

LPorter101 wrote:

Undyne wrote:

LPorter101 wrote:

What do you believe, Undyne?

I believe that you and some other members of this forum don't understand what psychopath means.  I'm not trying to be mean, but I am getting a little irritated whenever someone points to Eric displaying emotions as evidence that he wasn't a psychopath.  Proponents of this diagnosis make no claim that psychopaths do not display emotions.  They also don't say that they are just plain crazy.

"Well, a psychopath is not what the news media portray him or her to be.  That is, they are not psychotic, they are not crazy, they are not nuts.  These are not people that are mentally, psychiatrically, or even legally insane."  - Robert Hare

Stop telling us what they aren't and tell us what they are.

I'd be happy too.

They are people who possess superficial charm, a grandiose sense of self, a need for constant stimulation, a love of lying, a shallow sense of emotion, poor self control, failure to take responsibility for their own actions, a predatory disposition to others, and finally a record of juvenile delinquency.

Sound like anyone you know?

What makes Eric a psychopath is not his lead in killing but the extreme glory he took in manipulating others and his obsessive fantasies of domination. Eric was someone who viewed himself as a real charmer, loved to lie and manipulate, and dreamed of standing over people and dominating them. This fits the profile of a psychopath, but not that of most other mass shooters.

Dylan was totally different. He wrote about love and suicide.

There is a true consistency between Eric on the Basement Tapes and Eric in the diary. With Dylan a total disjunction between diary and tapes. Eric thought like the Basement Tapes all the time. Dylan did it only in front of Eric.

lasttrain,
No Dylan isn't any different. Dylan lied plenty too.To everyone.I don't know how good he thought he was at it but he didn't hesitate to do it.
Eric lied mainly to keep himself out of trouble. There is no evidence he lied about stupid things or lied  just to be lying.I guess he thought he was good at it but so what if he did? That proves nothing.A lot of people are good at lying and take pride in their charming skills.Happens in corporate America every day.

Why is Dolph Lundgren in this thread using huge fonts and caps? Really annoying.

x5000x wrote:

Why is Dolph Lundgren in this thread using huge fonts and caps? Really annoying.

Because Dolph Lundgren has a loud voice. When he talks, the earth shakes. And Dave Cullen wets himself.

LPorter101 wrote:

x5000x wrote:

Why is Dolph Lundgren in this thread using huge fonts and caps? Really annoying.

Because Dolph Lundgren has a loud voice. When he talks, the earth shakes. And Dave Cullen wets himself.

Hm, good points.

The reason I have Eric "bias" is because everyone keeps pedalling the idea that Dylan was a little lost soul who was manipulated by nasty super villain Eric and didn't really mean to shoot people to death and intend to blow up his school... because he wrote wuv hearts in his diary…

Please.

People talk about Dylan as if he was suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.