Dylan's journal.

I think you are reading too much into what Dylan's briefly writes. Dylan also writes, "maybe going NBK (gawd) with Eric is the way to break free," and he also wrote in June of 1998 that he was ending his life. It seems as if Eric has taken over the planning and execution of the plan in late 1997, and we have little mention of suicide after 1998. Before 1998, Dylan's journals mention suicide more often than homicide, aside from the juvenile jealous rages that quickly dissolve into self-pity.

Tomb wrote:

I wish they would have come up with a different name than NBK. I get it, Dylan wanted to do the shooting with a girl, but when it became obvious it was going to be him and Eric, they moron ably should have termed it something else. I always think of the movie Natural Born Killers where it was a man and woman on a killing spree. Just nitpicking, I guess, but I would have named it something else as 2 boys going to commit mass murder.

Compare these two passages.

Quote :

Soon. . . . e ither I’ll commit suicide,or I’ll get with   & it will be NBK for us.

And by that, he draws a highway with the sign of 666 as in the movie. It is the route where the killer shot a police officer. Later his drawings would resemble more a lost highway.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

and

Quote :

I hate this non-thinking stasis. I’m stuck in humanity. Maybe going “NBK” (gawd) with Eric is the way to break free. I hate this.

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Why he wrote NBK, and then he writes, "NBK". Why the quotation marks? If he meant that it is two different things. This is not the NBK on which he was going to go with the girl. This inscription are separated from hearts that shows that they are not addressed to Eric.
By the way, I do not like this movie.  Though the film shows the madness of the worship of psychopaths, but the senseless killing makes it nauseating.  Sorry.

NBK narrates a story, just like any other movie out there. If you want to discover the true meaning of what the director is trying to put on tape you have to watch without prejudices of any sort.
It's entirely possible that Dylan had in his mind until the very end two alternate scenarios: the one filled with rage and death ("NBK" with Eric) and the passionate one (the imaginary heaven where he fulfills his desire to be loved and accepted). That would explain that messiness in his writings, and possibly a hint to a 2nd NBK: the one which was going on in his heart, that would also have found its end on 4/20.

Like it or not is a matter of taste.
What it means to your second NBK for Dylan? The heroes of the movie kill who they want. Dylan didn't mean it?

Quote :

Nobody will help me . . . only exist with me if it suits them. I helped, why can’t they? will get me a gun, I’ll go on my killing spree against anyone I want.

Doesn't sound like Dylan wanted to kill only himself.
Here he is talking most likely about Zach. But what he has in mind. That can make his friend, if he has a girlfriend. And so wants to do Dylan. To die together?

Quote :

Now, lucky bastard gets a perfect soulmate, who he can admit FUCKIN SUICIDE to & I get rejected for being honest about fuckin hate for jocks.

Reading Dylan's journal is what made me have less sympathy for him. Sure, he talks about love, but in the end, he's just as self-serving and feral and Eric.

Reading this conversation about Dylan's impact on this whole event suddenly reminded me of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka's case.In short, they were married,he had a thing about girls in their only teens,since he was obsessed with the theme of virginity.Together with Karla,he raped and killed 3 teenage girls(1st victim was Karla's younger sister).He also commited multiple rapes in Scarborough.
Karla had gained an image of a miserable woman, who participated in terrible crimes only because she was under pressure of her monster-husband. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to condone or diminish his role in this case whatsoever. But,while researching this case, I felt strange feeling of something bothering me.I found my answer during reading an article about Bernardo's life before he started his criminal career.There was a description of his violent behaviour towards his girlfriends and author marvelously pointed out on one thing :"Nobody had died before he met Karla Homolka". Yes, he was a rapist already, when he met her.But he had reached a completely new level - level,on which he commited abductions and murders,- only after their meeting.
The same thing with Eric, who is often to blame for everything(again,I am fully aware of what he had done and I'm not going to deny it) and Dylan, who is often portrayed as one of the Eric's victims.
Bernardo is a psychopath (I believe,that Eric had something of this kind,too).They both had done cruel things.But for me, their partners made a contribution to their deeds much greater,than the most of people tend to think.
I think that this whole strange thing comes from human tendency to label whatever or whoever they see around them.
I think that, when, for example a person says :"My beloved one couldn't have done this terrible thing" , it is really an attempt to deny that we failed on something. We didn't noticed that someone started doing some things that were out-of-character for him/her. We failed to get him/her help.But ( it may sound cynical,but,please,try to understand me) the main pain is rooted in our failure on navigating in this world.We feel ourselves much safer and comfortable,when we know for certain that,e.g. this person is good, and that is bad.So,when these people started to play roles which don't fit in our image of them(and world in general), we get confused and somewhat helpless.How on earth this shitty person can be kind to me?How can my wonderful child do something bad? It's wroooong!
If you presume that some person is stupid and can't reach,e.g. great academic results,it doesn't mean that things have to be this way.
If you presume that your child is wonderful and kind and etc.,it doesn't mean that he/she is. And it certainly won't prevent him/her from making mistakes.
It's just a picture that you've created in your mind.It might have nothing to do with reality.
The whole thing of name-calling,bullying and this theme of demonizing one of the boys while searching for excuse for another, Sue's attempts to relieve Dylan from responsibility which she mentioned-these phenomena have,I believe,one thing in common.
It is our attempt to keep ourselves safe by knowing for certain what is bad for us,what is good, which person can be right for us, which is wrong. We make decisions and give definitions to everything and everyone around us, and behave ourselves accordingly,in order to survive.We want to feel that we are in charge.
The thing is,we aren't. And this thought hurts

I heard sue say her son was popular and eric was not.
Maybe it was Dylan's idea and eric was he's last choice. And eric was just an angry sheep.

His hair looked like Mickey's when he wore it in a ponytail.

I've always believed this since I first started reading about the case. Dylan to me seemed like the instigator. He spoke of it first, obviously, and while Eric was meticulous in detailing all his planing for the event, maybe Dylan wasn't. Or maybe he destroyed writings that we don't know about...
No-one ever seems to bring up that Eric was suicidal as well, even though it's mentioned a few times.
Dylan to me has always seemed like the more selfish and cruel one. I feel like he used Eric so he could get his NBK (gawd, going nbk w/eric) and I kind of wish Eric knew that about Dylan.
I think they are both as responsible, bit I feel Dylan is a bit more frightening, no-one around him had a clue he was so ill, that he was homicidal and suicidal and had been for a very long time. It's creepy to me that he managed to fool everyone around him so well. That lie to his mother after prom about "we could have drunk this alcohol and we didn't and I want you to know you can trust me' seems so mean. Eric was getting help and if not for Dylan feeding that side of him may have been able to succeed in therapy and with medication? I just wish someone from Eric's family or a close friend would speak out for him. He seems to shoulder way to much of the blame for this and I find it really sad.
I think that in the basement tapes Eric talks about mailing out his journal and the tapes to the media so he definitely wanted those to be seen. I'm not sure Dylan wanted his 'journal' to be read. As people above have mentioned, it was more scraps of paper here and there and not really a notebook. Whatever was on hi hardrive would have been a real look into Dylan's mind. Just like I think the tapes with Eric saying sorry to his family and Dylan abruptly cutting him off and the 'nixon tapes' would soften our opinions of Eric more.
I do find it surprising that people read Dylan's depression as 'loving' to me it just reads as selfish really, even his 'love' for girls was all about himself. His hatred of life and jocks was all about himself, nbk was all about himself. His friendship's with Zach, Nate and Eric were all about himself. He really only spoke about people in how they related to him. When his supposed best friend got a girl he loved and could confide in Dylan wasn't happy for him, just bitter for himself. I don't think he really cared for anyone else at all.
I think it was easier to blame Eric as well because Dylan had lived there all his life, the people in the community had always known him and watched him grow up whereas the Harris's were outsiders and kept their problems 'in-house' so there was no-one to speak up for them afterwards which helped shape the narrative. I imagine the story we have now would be a lot different if it was the other way round...
I think it's a real shame they weren't separated from each other somehow and both of their illness picked up on and given real and intense treatment... it could have so many people so much heartache. I think that when there are two intelligent boys caught up in a plan like this and egging each other on then it;s way harder for one to back out.

I feel I should finish by saying I have a lot of respect for Sue Klebold and the work she has done. She is an amazingly strong and graceful woman. As a mother I know why she has to hold on to the narrative that her son was a little less culpable. I can't say I wouldn't do that myself if it as my child. I think both sets of parents were amazing parents and I think both boys were ultimately as homicidal and as suicidal and as culpable as each other in the end.

Cemetery Jones wrote:

I've always believed this since I first started reading about the case. Dylan to me seemed like the instigator. He spoke of it first, obviously, and while Eric was meticulous in detailing all his planing for the event, maybe Dylan wasn't. Or maybe he destroyed writings that we don't know about...
No-one ever seems to bring up that Eric was suicidal as well, even though it's mentioned a few times.
Dylan to me has always seemed like the more selfish and cruel one. I feel like he used Eric so he could get his NBK (gawd, going nbk w/eric) and I kind of wish Eric knew that about Dylan.
I think they are both as responsible, bit I feel Dylan is a bit more frightening, no-one around him had a clue he was so ill, that he was homicidal and suicidal and had been for a very long time. It's creepy to me that he managed to fool everyone around him so well. That lie to his mother after prom about "we could have drunk this alcohol and we didn't and I want you to know you can trust me' seems so mean. Eric was getting help and if not for Dylan feeding that side of him may have been able to succeed in therapy and with medication? I just wish someone from Eric's family or a close friend would speak out for him. He seems to shoulder way to much of the blame for this and I find it really sad.
I think that in the basement tapes Eric talks about mailing out his journal and the tapes to the media so he definitely wanted those to be seen. I'm not sure Dylan wanted his 'journal' to be read. As people above have mentioned, it was more scraps of paper here and there and not really a notebook. Whatever was on hi hardrive would have been a real look into Dylan's mind. Just like I think the tapes with Eric saying sorry to his family and Dylan abruptly cutting him off and the 'nixon tapes' would soften our opinions of Eric more.
I do find it surprising that people read Dylan's depression as 'loving' to me it just reads as selfish really, even his 'love' for girls was all about himself. His hatred of life and jocks was all about himself, nbk was all about himself. His friendship's with Zach, Nate and Eric were all about himself. He really only spoke about people in how they related to him. When his supposed best friend got a girl he loved and could confide in Dylan wasn't happy for him, just bitter for himself. I don't think he really cared for anyone else at all.
I think it was easier to blame Eric as well because Dylan had lived there all his life, the people in the community had always known him and watched him grow up whereas the Harris's were outsiders and kept their problems 'in-house' so there was no-one to speak up for them afterwards which helped shape the narrative. I imagine the story we have now would be a lot different if it was the other way round...
I think it's a real shame they weren't separated from each other somehow and both of their illness picked up on and given real and intense treatment... it could have so many people so much heartache.  I think that when there are two intelligent boys caught up in a plan like this and egging each other on then it;s way harder for one to back out.

I feel I should finish by saying I have a lot of respect for Sue Klebold and the work she has done. She is an amazingly strong and graceful woman. As a mother I know why she has to hold on to the narrative that her son was a little less culpable. I can't say I wouldn't do that myself if it as my child. I think both sets of parents were amazing parents and I think both boys were ultimately as homicidal and as suicidal and as culpable as each other in the end.

Completely agree with this! I have always said that Dylan was the one who had everyone fooled. The simple fact that the Harris family has never spoken out makes everything very one sided.

Based on the majority of material we have access to, it is easy for some who are not familiar with the case to believe that Eric was just a cruel psychopath and Dylan just a sad depressed follower. Mainly because they take it at face value, and do not try to get farther in.

Either way Eric and Dylan together planned, and then carried out the attack. In my opinion both should have equal responsibility.

The fact that Dylan had the random sheets of paper scattered around, and his hard drive was erased makes me really feel we are missing something huge.

Everyone says that Eric wrote so many angry things while Dylan didn't like it is a fact. Well fact is there is a lot that we don't have access to anymore. Who knows what was on that hard drive.

Lizpuff wrote:

The fact that Dylan had the random sheets of paper scattered around, and his hard drive was erased makes me really feel we are missing something huge.

Everyone says that Eric wrote so many angry things while Dylan didn't like it is a fact.  Well fact is there is a lot that we don't have access to anymore.  Who knows what was on that hard drive.

EXACTLY! Dylan destroyed it for a reason. Obviously there was something on there that he didn't want anyone to see. It could have been an online journal filled with hate, various attack plans and diagrams, or simply a few saved videos of some foot fetish smut. The world will never know.

It's almost like Dylan started this narrative a long time before 4/20 and now it sticks. SK also mentions he was skilled at taking focus off of him and listening, that's one thing that is constant, Dylan was a good listener. I don't recall reading anything about Dylan really confiding in anyone. He brushed things off and would listen to people like Devon and help her out. While he didn't seem to really confide in anyone but Eric.

I do believe he did have issues, him and Eric both but going from a "love lorn depressive" to a murderer because one guy was like "we should kill people" doesn't make sense.

I wonder how/when I got so fucked up w my mind,
existence, problem — when Dylan Benet Klebold got covered up by this entity containing
Dylan’s body ...I lack the true human nature that Dylan
owned & they lack the overdeveloped mind/imagination/knowledge too [[/b]?].

I'm going over Dylan's journal a bit more now and so far these things stand out to me. It's like he did truly start thinking of himself as someone other than Dylan. He was almost "playing Dylan" and on 4/20 he got to be himself.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I wonder how/when I got so fucked up w my mind,
existence, problem — when Dylan Benet Klebold got covered up by this entity containing
Dylan’s body ...I lack the true human nature that Dylan
owned & they lack the overdeveloped mind/imagination/knowledge too [[/b]?].

I'm going over Dylan's journal a bit more now and so far these things stand out to me. It's like he did truly start thinking of himself as someone other than Dylan. He was almost "playing Dylan" and on 4/20 he got to be himself.

I think it was Langman that said that "Dylan wanted to be a god but knew he wasn't." Meaning he wanted to think he was above everyone else, in the way that he thought ie drawing himself way out of the box of normal, but in the same way knew he was not above everyone else and it depressed him. I think that is pretty accurate.

I bet he believed the real Dylan, the entity that overtook old Dylan came out on 4/20


I can see why his writings could be interpreted as extremely isolating and suicidal only. When his mom read it I am not sure if she read into his meglomanical (for lack of a better phrase) feelings, or if she did and just doesn't admit to it.

Do you ever wonder if there's a possibility that Dylan was just writing like this so maybe people would look into every word he said but that was an act too? Who knows! That's why we are still talking about Columbine now.

Someone called me to set up a job interview and he asked if it was a good time to talk. It was while I was reading Dylan's journals. I said yes, I was just reading. He asked what I was reading.. I said "A Mothers Reckoning" not much better SO, not much better. It was the last book I read! I should have went with Food Whore.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I bet he believed the real Dylan, the entity that overtook old Dylan came out on 4/20


I can see why his writings could be interpreted as extremely isolating and suicidal only. When his mom read it I am not sure if she read into his meglomanical (for lack of a better phrase) feelings, or if she did and just doesn't admit to it.  

Do you ever wonder if there's a possibility that Dylan was just writing like this so maybe people would look into every word he said but that was an act too? Who knows! That's why we are still talking about Columbine now.

Someone called me to set up a job interview and he asked if it was a good time to talk. It was while I was reading Dylan's journals. I said yes, I was just reading. He asked what I was reading.. I said "A Mothers Reckoning" not much better SO, not much better. It was the last book I read! I should have went with Food Whore.

I saw this online. It is totally me[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Lizpuff wrote:

I saw this online.  It is totally me[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

 I find myself having to seriously repeat in my head. "Don't start a Columbine debate. Just don't, you know how you get.." My husband will discuss Columbine with me sometimes, but when I start really getting into it and start spiting out facts and statistics, his eyes kind of die. He says that I do not talk about things like a normal person.  One time he walked in our bedroom and I had the entire bed covered in Columbine related books, printouts from the Internet, etc. I was seated in the middle. He asked me what I was doing, to which I replied comparing info, looking for any discrepancies. He just shook his head as he slowly backed out the door with a clear look of concern on his face.  

I was at a wine dinner, honestly with people who also love True Crime (It's a true crime book club) and we were talking about the first cases that we got into. I mentioned 2 when I was about 11 then I mentioned Columbine and said I was part of the first yahoo groups and would raise money for the families and go on anti-bullying campaigns. . I  was sitting next to someone from Littleton. she has nothing to do with Columbine(she's in her early 20's and was NOT freaked out, understood where I was coming from but I'm like "just keep digging the hole"



There's something about school shootings that have a different vibe then say being "into" Ted Bundy

I was talking to my roommate about the short film I'm writing and he told me "I don't think a killer's friends are going to go to his funeral and talk nicely about him" and I said "Zach Heckler went to Dylan's funeral!"  we've been friends for 6 years so luckily he just smiled at me and said "well you know more than I do" He saw me watching the Car Wax commercial and asked what on earth I was watching. I told him a skit from the 90's.

I have thought though, when I ride on the train or bus and perhaps come across someone who wants to be creepy or something like, it happens in a big city. Why not just put on Hitmen for Hire on my phone and watch it and just point and it.. I'm not sure if that WOULD scare someone, my friend has said it would scare her.

I can so relate to the "please don't give strangers unnecessary info on serial killers' meme...
I'm so terrible for it that when I got called into my son's school for a meeting with his principal he bought up my son's selective mutism. I also had it as a child and mostly grew out of it. I had to actively stop myself bringing up Seung Hui Cho... I almost said "(My son's) selective mustism is not as bad as Cho's he will grow out of it like I did - he's not going to go all nbk and shoot up the school or anything..."
What is wrong with me? Luckily I just said 'He seems to be growing out of it."
phew!

Cemetery Jones wrote:

I can so relate to the "please don't give strangers unnecessary info on serial killers' meme...
I'm so terrible for it that when I got called into my son's school for a meeting with his principal he bought up my son's selective mutism. I also had it as a child and mostly grew out of it. I had to actively stop myself bringing up Seung Hui Cho... I almost said "(My son's) selective mustism is not as bad as Cho's he will grow out of it like I did - he's not going to go all nbk and shoot up the school or anything..."
What is wrong with me? Luckily I just said 'He seems to be growing out of it."
phew!

Yes, that probably would have came off as very odd to the school administration.  They would have placed several notes in your son's file pertaining to the fact that his parent was very knowledgeable on serial killers/school shooters and was comparing the son's issues to them. He would have instantly became one huge walking red flag.

I came across a site, and of course.. can't find it again LOL but it had a list of songs and notes that Dylan was going to use for his website he was developing, like such and such song should play when people go to the "about me" section , but I didn't get the gist of what it was going to be about. Has anyone ever seen anything like this?

Screamingophelia wrote:

I came across a site, and of course.. can't find it again LOL but it had a list of songs and notes that Dylan was going to use for his website he was developing, like such and such song should play when people go to the "about me" section , but I didn't get the gist of what it was going to be about. Has anyone ever seen anything like this?  

Is it possible that you're talking about this?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Yes it is!!! Thank you.

That's really cool, great find

As Nirvana92 said:

Devon Adams has even tried to set the record straight about the whole "Dylan followed Eric" theory:

"Oddly, it was Eric who would copy everything Dylan did, which made Dylan so angry. But it was Eric's stronger and more violent personality that won Dylan over."

Fuckin READ THAT and then read THIS in Eric Harrises first and second Journal entry:

"people say it is immoral to follow others, they say be a leader. well here is a fuckin news flash for you stupid shits, everyone is a follower! everyone who says they arent a follower and then dresses diff. or acts diff. ... They got that from something they saw on TV or in film or in life."

"I always try to be different, but I always end up copying someone else. I try to be a mixture of different things and styles but when I step out of myself I end up looking like others or others THINK I am copying. One big fucking problem Is people telling me what to fuckin do, think, say, act, and everything else. Ill do what you say IF I feel like it."

SO interesting. For me this clearly points toward the fact that Eric had no shame in following anybody that he thought was inspirational and Dylan probably was since he was quite different from Eric personalitywise but held similar views of the world.

Dylan mentions Zombies
Eric mentions Robots

I have thought about before what that difference can tell us about how their views differed.

I think it highlights that Eric was more upset with society and the structure of it and how people as a part of it basically just do what they are programmed to do, like robots. Dylan however is not as focused on that and seems to have a smaller and more personal perspective thus not naming people as robots but rather zomibes.

Anyone got thoughts on this?  

Lizpuff wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I bet he believed the real Dylan, the entity that overtook old Dylan came out on 4/20


I can see why his writings could be interpreted as extremely isolating and suicidal only. When his mom read it I am not sure if she read into his meglomanical (for lack of a better phrase) feelings, or if she did and just doesn't admit to it.  

Do you ever wonder if there's a possibility that Dylan was just writing like this so maybe people would look into every word he said but that was an act too? Who knows! That's why we are still talking about Columbine now.

Someone called me to set up a job interview and he asked if it was a good time to talk. It was while I was reading Dylan's journals. I said yes, I was just reading. He asked what I was reading.. I said "A Mothers Reckoning" not much better SO, not much better. It was the last book I read! I should have went with Food Whore.

I saw this online.  It is totally me[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

that is great

sscc wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I came across a site, and of course.. can't find it again LOL but it had a list of songs and notes that Dylan was going to use for his website he was developing, like such and such song should play when people go to the "about me" section , but I didn't get the gist of what it was going to be about. Has anyone ever seen anything like this?  

Is it possible that you're talking about this?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Can anyone give a transcript of this? I find it very hard to read.

AdamnLanza wrote:

sscc wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I came across a site, and of course.. can't find it again LOL but it had a list of songs and notes that Dylan was going to use for his website he was developing, like such and such song should play when people go to the "about me" section , but I didn't get the gist of what it was going to be about. Has anyone ever seen anything like this?  

Is it possible that you're talking about this?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Can anyone give a transcript of this? I find it very hard to read.

You and everyone else. Dylan's handwriting was truly AWFUL!

Jenn wrote:

So the entire time that I've researched Columbine, I was under the impression that Dylan wanted to go 'NBK' with someone other than Eric Harris. Reading his journal, it is clear that Eric isn't who he refers to when wanting to kill people. All this time, I thought it was Zack Heckler. After re-reading Dylan's journal, I no longer think that it was Zack Heckler. It was the girl he was 'in love'. And knowing that, why he called it 'NBK' makes perfect sense. He wanted to do it with a girl, not a guy.

Dylan first talks about getting a gun on September 5, 1997. In this particular entry he talks only of using the gun on himself.

Dylan wrote:

[Edited] can get me that gun I hope, I wanna use it on a poor S.O.B. I know... his name is vodka, dylan is his name too.

The 2nd time Dylan mentions a gun was on November 3, 1997. This time he talks about how he himself will go on a killing spree.

Dylan wrote:

[edited] will get me a gun, ill go on my killing spree against anyone I want.

And finally, Dylan mentions going 'NBK' on February 2, 1998. But not with Eric and not with Zack but with a girl.

Dylan wrote:

Soon... either ill commit suicide, or I'll get w. [edited] & it will be NBK for us. My hapiness. her hapiness. NOTHING else matters.

Two months later, on April 10, 1998 Eric starts his journal.

So, there you have it. 'NBK' was not supposed to be between 2 guys, it was something Dylan wanted to do with a girl he thought he was in love with, just like the movie. When he realized that most likely was not going to happen, he went to the next best thing and that was Eric.

That is so crazy and striking! I had never thought to piece that together as to who originally had the first thought of going on a killing spree. I knew that Dylan had started his journal before Eric, and that he started it off as saying he wanted to die... It wouldn't be such a far fetched idea that Dylan passed on the idea to Eric about going total NBK and Eric already being into violence and explosives would have caught his attention.

AdamnLanza wrote:

sscc wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I came across a site, and of course.. can't find it again LOL but it had a list of songs and notes that Dylan was going to use for his website he was developing, like such and such song should play when people go to the "about me" section , but I didn't get the gist of what it was going to be about. Has anyone ever seen anything like this?  

Is it possible that you're talking about this?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Can anyone give a transcript of this? I find it very hard to read.

I'm trying to understand his handwriting but if I'm not wrong, on the "what I hate" list one of the things he wrote was "racists". But we all know what he called Isaiah that day.

He probably did hate racists and he hated guys who were mean to "chicks" and said cruel things to Lauren and Val that day...

They wanted to spew as much hatred as possible and their actions are words were evil, but were they evil? No, no inherently.

I don't think his actions that day are indicative of everything he felt or believed totally.

The thing is that is what everyone is going to remember and care about because of what he did.

icanmakeuhappy wrote:

I'm trying to understand his handwriting but if I'm not wrong, on the "what I hate" list one of the things he wrote was "racists". But we all know what he called Isaiah that day.

Eric said he hated racists too but then in the same breath talked about killing minorities. I think they hated racists more for being stupid and pathetic people rather than any moral reasoning.

Screamingophelia wrote:

He probably did hate racists and he hated guys who were mean to "chicks" and said cruel things to Lauren and Val that day...

They wanted to spew as much hatred as possible  and their actions are words were evil, but were they evil? No, no inherently.

I don't think his actions that day are indicative of everything he felt or believed totally.

The thing is that is what everyone is going to remember and care about because of what he did.

That thing about him hating guys who were a-holes to girls makes me wonder if he was a "nice guy". I got that vibe from Dylan before I read that

QuestionMark wrote:

Eric said he hated racists too but then in the same breath talked about killing minorities. I think they hated racists more for being stupid and pathetic people rather than any moral reasoning.

Eric wrote on his website that he hated anyone who discriminated a person based on their skin color. What Dylan wrote was also going on his website. So they may have been lying or were hypocrites.

Quote :

That thing about him hating guys who were a-holes to girls makes me wonder if he was a "nice guy". I got that vibe from Dylan before I read that

I don't know.... other than Tobin at the mall, Marla and I guess Kristen who went on a date with him sometime in April he never really pursued girls, and in his writings he never made references to being friend zoned (it happened back then but I don't think it was coined back then he was saying he was shy and looked weird, so that was the problem and the jocks who got the girls, a lot of them were jerks in his eyes... but he never talked about himself being nice. In fact he often looked at himself as bad and had to cleanse himself, his words.

It is an interesting question though, I want to give it more thought.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Quote :

That thing about him hating guys who were a-holes to girls makes me wonder if he was a "nice guy". I got that vibe from Dylan before I read that

I don't know.... other than Tobin at the mall, Marla and I guess Kristen who went on a date with him sometime in April he never really pursued girls, and in his writings he never made references to being friend zoned (it happened back then but I don't think it was coined back then he was saying he was shy and looked weird, so that was the problem and the jocks who got the girls, a lot of them were jerks in his eyes... but he never talked about himself being nice. In fact he often looked at himself as bad and had to cleanse himself, his words.

It is an interesting question though, I want to give it more thought.

Well a lot of your typical nice guy types don't refer to themselves as such. The "nice guy" type to me are the guys who can't see why they really can't get a date, they just expect any woman to jump on them if they hold the door open or compliment them. It probably means different things to us all, but that's what it has come to mean to me. It's not a good label.

Dylan didn't act too much like any female owed him anything, though. He might have been overzealous in his pursuit of his dream girl (re: that letter), but he didn't act like this girl owed him a date. We, of course, don't know of his actual interactions with her if any. If we can assume anything from his writings, he was too shy to really say much. Dylan acted embarrassed about his fetish and porn habits. He didn't like to talk about that much, or sex for that matter. Perhaps he though to himself that girls owed him dates or sex, but he didn't write that. We can't read his brain, sadly. (Wouldn't that be interesting?) I don't think I'd categorize Dylan as a nice guy under my definition of it. For that matter, I wouldn't classify Eric as one either.

I know this thread has not been hit in a few months, but I had some thoughts in regards to Dylan’s journals. I’m wondering if it even was a journal at all. My thoughts are that he wrote things down before putting them on his website. We know he was at least planning a website but we cannot say it didn’t exist. He comes across as someone who plans things out before setting it in stone. I just finished the 11k and I keep going back to the boys journals. For instance Dylan has a paper that shows what looks to be his bedroom and what he plans on doing to it by moving things around. That to me shows he’s a planning kind of person. I’ve read Sue’s book for the fifth time a week ago. I like to re read and cross check things. She claims all his writings were on scraps of paper and nothing was in order like a journal. His first page shows a “virtual book” and in his scattered papers he leaves spots for “thought boxes” as if it would be in a format to a website. He has a “you know what I hate” rough draft and we know Eric had one on his website and both had (s)hit lists. Maybe things ran more parallel with those two than we even know. Meaning maybe Dylan had a website just like Eric’s. For all we know he could’ve been just as cruel as Eric was in his website. Of course we will never know. He destroyed what he could. Maybe these “journal” papers got misplaced or forgotten to be destroyed.

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Funny how he wrote "Enquire Mags" in the Hate Section and later after the shooting the magazine spreads false information about Dylan and Eric....

Everyone is born somewhat regular.Now with that being said there’s were so many things that caused this but which in particular. I say this say no one is born to kill what made him wanna kill??

I always wonder what would happen if they didn’t meet??

I’ve heard (not confirmed) Rumor has it Eric was raped by a police officer. And somehow someway the school finds out and thats why they called him a “faggot”. Now if this true it actually makes a lot more sense for Eric’s motive. Idk if that is true or not but can someone confirm for me??

Bruce Wayne wrote:

I’ve heard (not confirmed) Rumor has it Eric was raped by a police officer. And somehow someway the school finds out and thats why they called him a “faggot”. Now if this true it actually makes a lot more sense for Eric’s motive. Idk if that is true or not but can someone confirm for me??

It's not true, it's a conspiracy theory.

Thank you

Bruce Wayne wrote:

I’ve heard (not confirmed) Rumor has it Eric was raped by a police officer. And somehow someway the school finds out and thats why they called him a “faggot”. Now if this true it actually makes a lot more sense for Eric’s motive. Idk if that is true or not but can someone confirm for me??

"Faggot" was apparently considered a standard insult at Columbine at that time. In one of the Rebel Mission logs where Eric writes of targeting Nick Baumgart's house (this was in 1997, well before his arrest), he calls Baumgart "un utter fag."  There are incidents relayed by students within the 11k, including by TCM members, that indicate that the majority of TCM members were also called fags at some point.

thelmar wrote:

Bruce Wayne wrote:

I’ve heard (not confirmed) Rumor has it Eric was raped by a police officer. And somehow someway the school finds out and thats why they called him a “faggot”. Now if this true it actually makes a lot more sense for Eric’s motive. Idk if that is true or not but can someone confirm for me??

"Faggot" was apparently considered a standard insult at Columbine at that time. In one of the Rebel Mission logs where Eric writes of targeting Nick Baumgart's house (this was in 1997, well before his arrest), he calls Baumgart "un utter fag."  There are incidents relayed by students within the 11k, including by TCM members, that indicate that the majority of TCM members were also called fags at some point.

I feel like that was a standard insult at my school too... a 90's thing I think.

Screamingophelia wrote:

thelmar wrote:

Bruce Wayne wrote:

I’ve heard (not confirmed) Rumor has it Eric was raped by a police officer. And somehow someway the school finds out and thats why they called him a “faggot”. Now if this true it actually makes a lot more sense for Eric’s motive. Idk if that is true or not but can someone confirm for me??

"Faggot" was apparently considered a standard insult at Columbine at that time. In one of the Rebel Mission logs where Eric writes of targeting Nick Baumgart's house (this was in 1997, well before his arrest), he calls Baumgart "un utter fag."  There are incidents relayed by students within the 11k, including by TCM members, that indicate that the majority of TCM members were also called fags at some point.

I feel like that was a standard insult at my school too... a 90's thing I think.

Lot's of people still use faggot as an insult today. It was practically the second word that came out of everyone's mouth in middle school. Outside of school it gets flung around on 4chan easily tens of thousands of times a day.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] thank you for posting this. For a few weeks myself, I have been wondering who thought of it first. I agree with you that it was Dylan's idea. He started talking about NBK on 02/2/98 with his "love" and then Eric started talking about it in 04/10/98. At this point Dylan was already journaling about his life and how he hated it. User [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] even brings up a good point that Dylan brings up "My killing spree".

I don't think Dylan saw Eric as a poor man's substitute for his love like @thougthbox meantions, I feel that Dylan saw Eric as a loose cannon and used it to his advantage. I mean Eric clearly had some uncontrolable anger issues based of what he did to Brook's car and how he acted after getting arrested. Dylan used him. He saw his weakness based off how Eric was being treated and the anger issues and ran with it. One can agrue that Eric did most of the planning and spoke about it more, in which he did, however, how do we know that Dylan was coming up with the plan and Eric was just writing it down? I mean Dylan's actions during the shooting and what we seen after does make him look shady as fuck. He destroyed his hard drive and any trace of online presence. He most likely destoryed any journal entries that would have make him look more gulity. For those that was able to listen to the full 911 call, Dylan was having the time of his life. There is an interview with Susan (I think it was in American Tragey I could be wrong) where she thought Dylan was conned into it. Then she watched the basement tapes and heard the 911 operator. She realized after that, Dylan was just as much into it than Eric. Dylan was just better at hiding it.

Screamingophelia wrote:

thelmar wrote:

Bruce Wayne wrote:

I’ve heard (not confirmed) Rumor has it Eric was raped by a police officer. And somehow someway the school finds out and thats why they called him a “faggot”. Now if this true it actually makes a lot more sense for Eric’s motive. Idk if that is true or not but can someone confirm for me??

"Faggot" was apparently considered a standard insult at Columbine at that time. In one of the Rebel Mission logs where Eric writes of targeting Nick Baumgart's house (this was in 1997, well before his arrest), he calls Baumgart "un utter fag."  There are incidents relayed by students within the 11k, including by TCM members, that indicate that the majority of TCM members were also called fags at some point.

I feel like that was a standard insult at my school too... a 90's thing I think.

It was a 90's thing. Everyone used to say fag or retarded for everything it seemed. And "getting fucked in the ass" was a 90's thing too. It doesn't mean they were raped, they felt screwed over by the system. Just for example, my State just raised taxes on gas, tobacco and plate registrations. So I would say that I am getting raped up the ass in taxes. Doesn't mean my State government is physically raping me.

@Miasmom thank u for explaining it to me thx

No problem. It’s hard for those who didn’t grow up in that era to understand. Being the Class of 99’ those who grew up in that age might have a better understanding in what they actually meant.