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 Spared people

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elia




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PostSubject: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeMon Mar 07, 2016 12:56 pm

I wanted to discuss this with you. Why do you think they spare some people? I even thought it could be because they wanted them to survive to tell their story. Could it have sense? Surely they didn't know they were being recorded in the 911 call while they were in the library. Maybe they wanted to add a little piece to their movie-like puzzle. They stated that so many times: they wanted to be remembered, they wanted people to make a movie about their story. They let us so many informations (and that could explain the fascination people see in this dramatic fact), photos, videos ect. They even went to the school wearing two iconic shirts, as if they really were in a movie scene. I think that letting people go could be another proof they wanted their story to be repeated over and over by the witnesses of this tragedy, so they could really keep living after their own death.
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maninthebox




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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeMon Mar 07, 2016 1:07 pm

I think that's a good explanation, maybe it's even something they planned beforehand.
I also think they enjoyed playing god - who spare, who to kill. Finally getting to feel power.

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Lizpuff

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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeMon Mar 07, 2016 2:13 pm

Just an opinion from a random lurker. I just wonder if it had to do with who they did and didn't care for. Obviously they didn't hate everyone equally despite what they wrote. Is it possible that someone like John Savage was not on the hate list and so they just didn't want him to die?

There is no telling who they would have run into in the school and who they wouldn't have. Being that they killed a lot of kids who basically had no idea who either of them were I wonder if they just had a random impromptu "save list" of kids that had done no wrong to them/been nice to them that they didn't feel deserved to die?

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radaddio




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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeMon Mar 07, 2016 3:31 pm

I've always maintained that they did have a general idea of who they wanted to die, specifically. However, after they started shooting, a lot of their prime targets ran for the hills. This was also after they realized that their bombs weren't going to work.

I don't think they were initially prepared mentally to be shooting kids at close range. They had to adapt to their circumstances.

This left them with a modified "tactical plan" that required them to change up their targets. They wanted to kill those who they thought had been the worst to them. This was mainly aimed at groups, and not really individuals I think.

Their targets were chosen out of a mix of opportunity, accessibility and social group. They knew who they were shooting. They hated and seethed with rage for over a year. But, their eventual victims were the result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Rachel Scott is a good example of a random target. Even though she was a devout and outspoken Christian, she was also friends with Brooks and I think even dated someone close to E/D group of friends. Since Eric, Dylan, Brooks and Rachel all smoked, it's likely they at least said hi to one another in the Smoker's Pit at some point. I always found it odd that she got killed.

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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 10:04 am

I think RS was also in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think if they would have came up on her they would have let her go once Dylan recognized her (I say Dylan because he was the one that saved her show). I think they just saw 2 people sitting there and pointed and shot not knowing who it was. The one that fascinates me the most is Daniel.
Daniel had some serious balls, shooting and bombs going off and he (according to stories) stood up to them, unfortunately he paid the ultimate price for doing this.

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radaddio




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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 10:52 am

You're probably right. That was in the very early moments of the shooting, where they were still trying to maybe compensate for the bombs fizzling out. Everyone was a target.

It also makes me think that, as their ammunition dwindled, they became more careful about their targets. In that case, they would have known who they were shooting, because they would have to pick out who they shot and who they didn't. The decision process would have been a fraction of a second, but it would still have been there.
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elia




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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 12:10 pm

Don't you think they could have recognized Rachel as a christian and decided to kill her? Also, is it a coincidence that the only teacher who died there was their physical education teacher? I personally think that they were targeting people. They shot christian people, jocks, black people. Everyone they stated they hated. We had to listent to the 911 call to know exactly how they behaved. We can't rely just on the transcript, because to understand completely a person you have to listen to his tone of voice ect. It's so unfair that we can't have all the evidence about this case.

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radaddio




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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 12:35 pm

Possibly, but she was still friends with Brooks, and folks generally liked her. E/D never mentioned her as being a target. They didn't like overly Christian kids, but there were a lot of moderate Christians that they interacted with.

The school was chock full of Christians and athletes, so by the rules of probability they would have hit a couple. They did hate jocks, and they did want the "white hats" to stand up so they could shoot them. The thing is; that whole exchange was improvised out of the fact that everyone else was already running away. The library was just an unfortunate gathering of scared kids who were now very easy targets. Not ideal targets, mind you, just easy.

Also, Eric wasn't a racist. Ironically, Dylan was. I think that Isaiah's parents even mentioned that their son had some kid of confrontation with Dylan in the weeks before the shooting.

We actually have a lot more evidence than you would think. Many different government agencies pored over this stuff for the better part of a decade. Even today, the evidence from the CHS shooting is used to develop and refine school drills, active shooter scenarios and law enforcement protocols. We have tons of evidence, we just don't have certain key things that people have been waiting to see. The Basement Tapes are one.

I would also like to see more of the photos from the library. Not BC I'm sick or enjoy seeing that. I want to see them because there are other pictures of how Eric and Dylan's bodies were positioned. I also think it would be a good tool to prevent some of the glorification that these to killers still get. Imagine if all the Tumblr fan girls got to see the basement Tapes, but they also had to wade past grainy photos of Cassie Bernal's shotgun facial wound to get to them? It would put a lot of things in perspective for them.

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PaintItBlack

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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 12:59 pm

@raddadio,
I thought that it was Eric who had the fight with Isaiah weeks before the shooting or maybe both boys?
I do believe that Eric was involved though.

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radaddio




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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 1:09 pm

That may be. I'm having a hard time finding info that it was either Eric or Dylan. The most credible version is that the TCM would pick on him occasionally.

I always assumed it was Dylan more than Eric since Eric was oddly anti racism. At least, when it wasn't about Nazi stuff.

IDK, the deeper you go, the crazier their manifestos get : )

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elia




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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 1:53 pm

Well Eric is a mystery. He says he hates racism, but he says he hates black people ect, but he is not racist. Yet he draws many swastikas in his diary. And Dylan was also jewish! They were quite confused Shocked

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radaddio




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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 2:00 pm

Too true!

I think the Nazi stuff was more about Eric liking the whole German Industrial music aesthetic than hating Jews. Casual racism is really common in the middle parts of the United States, though.

Also, I think that there was a hammer and sickle and an iron cross medallion somewhere on Dylan when they recovered his body. I might be mistaken, though.

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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 2:10 pm

radaddio wrote:




I would also like to see more of the photos from the library. Not BC I'm sick or enjoy seeing that. I want to see them because there are other pictures of how Eric and Dylan's bodies were positioned. I also think it would be a good tool to prevent some of the glorification that these to killers still get. Imagine if all the Tumblr fan girls got to see the basement Tapes, but they also had to wade past grainy photos of Cassie Bernal's shotgun facial wound to get to them? It would put a lot of things in perspective for them.

On one hand, I completely agree with this.  It's fucking terrifying that people can be so cognitively dissonant that they forget what Eric and Dylan actually did that day.  

On the other hand, I think many people wouldn't care and would continue to glorify Eric and Dylan.  I believe there are a lot more people surrounding us who lack empathy and compassion than what we realize.

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radaddio




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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 2:43 pm

In this day and age, you're probably right. People have glorified serial killers for decades.

That being said, the photos would still hold a lot of valuable information.
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PaintItBlack

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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 6:37 pm

radaddio wrote:
That may be. I'm having a hard time finding info that it was either Eric or Dylan. The most credible version is that the TCM would pick on him occasionally.

I always assumed it was Dylan more than Eric since Eric was oddly anti racism. At least, when it wasn't about Nazi stuff.

IDK, the deeper you go, the crazier their manifestos get : )

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
What I read was that Isaiah's dad said that Eric and Isiah had some kind of fight a few weeks before the shooting.The impression given was that it was physical.
He said this in the first few days after the shooting and never mentioned it publicly again as far as I know so specific details are not known.I've always wondered what happened there though.
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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 6:42 pm

Freezingmoon wrote:
radaddio wrote:




I would also like to see more of the photos from the library. Not BC I'm sick or enjoy seeing that. I want to see them because there are other pictures of how Eric and Dylan's bodies were positioned. I also think it would be a good tool to prevent some of the glorification that these to killers still get. Imagine if all the Tumblr fan girls got to see the basement Tapes, but they also had to wade past grainy photos of Cassie Bernal's shotgun facial wound to get to them? It would put a lot of things in perspective for them.

On one hand, I completely agree with this.  It's fucking terrifying that people can be so cognitively dissonant that they forget what Eric and Dylan actually did that day.  

On the other hand, I think many people wouldn't care and would continue to glorify Eric and Dylan.  I believe there are a lot more people surrounding us who lack empathy and compassion than what we realize.

FreezingMoon,
I know that you aren't saying this directly but being a Columbiner is not synonymous with not having empathy and compassion.I know many people think it is but I feel that doesn't describe most of us.

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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 7:40 pm


Quote :
What I read was that Isaiah's dad said that Eric and Isiah had some kind of fight a few weeks before the shooting.The impression given was that it was physical.

He said this in the first few days after the shooting and never mentioned it publicly again as far as I know so specific details are not known.I've always wondered what happened there though.

April 22 1999:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"The father of a victim in the Colorado shooting said Wednesday that his son had "had a conflict" with the presumed gunmen last year"


**It was Brian Sargent that got into a fight with Isaiah Shoels in 1998.

Leigh Patterson [6,996] and Tyler Pearce [7,002] stated that Brian Sargent got into fight with Isaiah Shoels in 1998. Isaiah Shoels won the fight.


Brian Sargent 010885: During the 1997-1998 school year, Sargent did not like athletes due to the athletes making fun of him and his associates.
Brian Sargent 010886: In the fall, 1998, Sargent did not talk to Eric Harris or Dylan Klebold, only to greet each other while passing in the hall.
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PaintItBlack

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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 10:21 pm

So the argument or fight with Eric never happened at all?

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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 10:31 pm

PaintItBlack wrote:
Freezingmoon wrote:
radaddio wrote:




I would also like to see more of the photos from the library. Not BC I'm sick or enjoy seeing that. I want to see them because there are other pictures of how Eric and Dylan's bodies were positioned. I also think it would be a good tool to prevent some of the glorification that these to killers still get. Imagine if all the Tumblr fan girls got to see the basement Tapes, but they also had to wade past grainy photos of Cassie Bernal's shotgun facial wound to get to them? It would put a lot of things in perspective for them.

On one hand, I completely agree with this.  It's fucking terrifying that people can be so cognitively dissonant that they forget what Eric and Dylan actually did that day.  

On the other hand, I think many people wouldn't care and would continue to glorify Eric and Dylan.  I believe there are a lot more people surrounding us who lack empathy and compassion than what we realize.

FreezingMoon,
I know that you aren't saying this directly but being a Columbiner is not synonymous with not having empathy and compassion.I know many people think it is but I feel that doesn't describe most of us.

I know what you mean and I agree.  When I say that there are plenty of people surrounding us who lack empathy, I'm just referring to humanity in general.    I consider myself a "columbiner" at this point and yet I also consider myself to be more compassionate than most people I know.  I don't think that being interested in this topic necessarily means that you lack compassion or have less empathy than other people.
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PaintItBlack

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PostSubject: Re: Spared people   Spared people Icon_minitimeTue Mar 08, 2016 11:03 pm

Freezingmoon wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
Freezingmoon wrote:
radaddio wrote:




I would also like to see more of the photos from the library. Not BC I'm sick or enjoy seeing that. I want to see them because there are other pictures of how Eric and Dylan's bodies were positioned. I also think it would be a good tool to prevent some of the glorification that these to killers still get. Imagine if all the Tumblr fan girls got to see the basement Tapes, but they also had to wade past grainy photos of Cassie Bernal's shotgun facial wound to get to them? It would put a lot of things in perspective for them.

On one hand, I completely agree with this.  It's fucking terrifying that people can be so cognitively dissonant that they forget what Eric and Dylan actually did that day.  

On the other hand, I think many people wouldn't care and would continue to glorify Eric and Dylan.  I believe there are a lot more people surrounding us who lack empathy and compassion than what we realize.

FreezingMoon,
I know that you aren't saying this directly but being a Columbiner is not synonymous with not having empathy and compassion.I know many people think it is but I feel that doesn't describe most of us.

I know what you mean and I agree.  When I say that there are plenty of people surrounding us who lack empathy, I'm just referring to humanity in general.    I consider myself a "columbiner" at this point and yet I also consider myself to be more compassionate than most people I know.  I don't think that being interested in this topic necessarily means that you lack compassion or have less empathy than other people.


I'm glad you said this.Sometimes I wonder if we somehow are able to tap into a deeper well of compassion and feeling than some others who condemn us.
What I mean by this is how hard is it to feel sympathy for an obvious victim? Someone who was killed and had no choice about it? I think its a little bit harder or requires you to look deeper or beyond anything obvious to get a deeper, fuller picture and see the person who died the crime is a victim too and their loss is very much a real loss and so on.
It seems the majority of people aren't willing to do that.

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