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 Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?

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PostSubject: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeFri Mar 25, 2016 10:34 am

Hello,

Firstly, I apologise if this has already been discussed, I've searched the forum and can't find anything specific.

Secondly, this is only complete speculation and wondering if anyone else would like to discuss it.

So in light of Sue Klebold's recent interview and book which seemingly came out of no where (Why now? Many have asked.)

Why haven't the Harris family come forward and do you think they ever will?

I do not buy into the idea - and I think anyone who actually does significant research into E & D will agree - that Dylan was not just the depressed misunderstood boy who was coerced by the big evil Eric. I sometimes wonder if it's the reactions from both families which have helped perpetuate public opinions and myths around the two shooters.

Now, here's my thoughts. Regardless of whether or not Eric was a psychopath (I'm still not 100% sold)
I think it's really disturbing and bizarre that Wanye Harris kept a journal about Eric, but not Kevin (his brother), and constantly dismissed anything he did. If he felt that Eric was just a regular teenage boy, enough to brush off all his controversial behaviour, why did he keep a journal about him?

Of course, in no way am I trying to defend or justify the shootings, but, do you think part of the reason Eric was obsessed with notoriety was because his parents never responded to him, no matter what he did?

Obviously I have no concrete evidence to base this on, but I feel like Wayne could be considered emotionally stunted and perhaps somewhat sociopathic and emotionally "abusive' towards his family.
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeFri Mar 25, 2016 11:17 am

I do not think Wayne was in any way abusive. He was a military man though so I think he probably was strict. I also think he probably was more of the kind of dad to say "good job" rather than give a hug or kiss to his kids.
I have read that both the Harrises went to school functions for the boys and I know they loved both of their boys.

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeFri Mar 25, 2016 12:10 pm

Wayne harris kept a journal about Eric???? Is it public?
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeFri Mar 25, 2016 12:13 pm

Squid wrote:
Wayne harris kept a journal about Eric???? Is it public?

There's the scan of it on "a columbine site."
It won't let me post the links
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeFri Mar 25, 2016 1:37 pm

My father is not military but he's pretty cold emotionally and I'm pretty sensitive as I'm sure Eric was and sometimes I feel like no matter what I do it's not good enough and I actually lack self confidence because of my childhood. I've never had any murderous thoughts and hate violence so Eric and I aren't 2 peas in a pod but I know how he felt.

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeFri Mar 25, 2016 2:01 pm

Jbow89 wrote:
My father is not military but he's pretty cold emotionally and I'm pretty sensitive as I'm sure Eric was and sometimes I feel like no matter what I do it's not good enough and I actually lack self confidence because of my childhood. I've never had any murderous thoughts and hate violence so Eric and I aren't 2 peas in a pod but I know how he felt.


I feel like I can relate, too.
My father was raised by a military family, despite not being in the military himself he still has the "stiff upper lip" mindset.
I love my dad dearly, and he loves me too. But the way he approaches things sometimes and they way he says things, especially in my formative years really knocked my esteem. My dad is the type of person who offers encouragement, but never praise. It's kind of funny.
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeFri Mar 25, 2016 10:35 pm

I don't think Eric's dad was abusive.  I think that he was beginning to see all these things going on with Eric and he wanted to document everything.......I kind of wonder if Eric's parents were considering sending Eric to therapy or something long before the van break-in so maybe that could be why he started the notebook.

But I do think that neither of the boys' parents were the overly affectionate, open minded types of parents.  This is just my impression and I could be way off.....but there are tons of parents like this in suburbia.  On a side note, I think Daniel Mauser's dad is one the sweetest, most loving dads ever and every video I see of him is pretty touching.

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 26, 2016 4:49 am

Freezingmoon wrote:
I don't think Eric's dad was abusive.  I think that he was beginning to see all these things going on with Eric and he wanted to document everything.......I kind of wonder if Eric's parents were considering sending Eric to therapy or something long before the van break-in so maybe that could be why he started the notebook.

But I do think that neither of the boys' parents were the overly affectionate, open minded types of parents.  This is just my impression and I could be way off.....but there are tons of parents like this in suburbia.  On a side note, I think Daniel Mauser's dad is one the sweetest, most loving dads ever and every video I see of him is pretty touching.

Well that's what I thought, but the fact he constant brushed everything off and wrote "Eric not at fault." is odd to me…
However, I do feel like the Brown family had a real problem with Harris family and they sensed that, so maybe Wayne took stuff with a pinch of salt.


Yeah, Tom Mauser comes across as such a lovely man.
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 26, 2016 6:52 am

astrospace92 wrote:
Freezingmoon wrote:
I don't think Eric's dad was abusive.  I think that he was beginning to see all these things going on with Eric and he wanted to document everything.......I kind of wonder if Eric's parents were considering sending Eric to therapy or something long before the van break-in so maybe that could be why he started the notebook.

But I do think that neither of the boys' parents were the overly affectionate, open minded types of parents.  This is just my impression and I could be way off.....but there are tons of parents like this in suburbia.  On a side note, I think Daniel Mauser's dad is one the sweetest, most loving dads ever and every video I see of him is pretty touching.

Well that's what I thought, but the fact he constant brushed everything off and wrote "Eric not at fault." is odd to me…
However, I do feel like the Brown family had a real problem with Harris family and they sensed that, so maybe Wayne took stuff with a pinch of salt.


Yeah, Tom Mauser comes across as such a lovely man.

have to agree about wayne. why did he found excuses for eric? i mean it´s ok to make a prank as teenager but it was more than one prank eric did. another thing that always wonder me: nate stated that wayne found a pipe bomb. is this really true? we will never know. but if the answer is yes, think about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 26, 2016 7:02 am

em81 wrote:
astrospace92 wrote:
Freezingmoon wrote:
I don't think Eric's dad was abusive.  I think that he was beginning to see all these things going on with Eric and he wanted to document everything.......I kind of wonder if Eric's parents were considering sending Eric to therapy or something long before the van break-in so maybe that could be why he started the notebook.

But I do think that neither of the boys' parents were the overly affectionate, open minded types of parents.  This is just my impression and I could be way off.....but there are tons of parents like this in suburbia.  On a side note, I think Daniel Mauser's dad is one the sweetest, most loving dads ever and every video I see of him is pretty touching.

Well that's what I thought, but the fact he constant brushed everything off and wrote "Eric not at fault." is odd to me…
However, I do feel like the Brown family had a real problem with Harris family and they sensed that, so maybe Wayne took stuff with a pinch of salt.


Yeah, Tom Mauser comes across as such a lovely man.

have to agree about wayne. why did he found excuses for eric? i mean it´s ok to make a prank as teenager but it was more than one prank eric did. another thing that always wonder me: nate stated that wayne found a pipe bomb. is this really true? we will never know. but if the answer is yes, think about it.

Yeah!

You see, I always wonder about that. And what really happened if Wayne did find the pipe bomb and blow it up on the mountain. Did he make it a fun outing? or did he reprimand Eric and dispose of it for safeties sake?

I don't know if you've read The Basement Tape transcript, but there was a time when Wayne got a call saying "your clips are in" and he replied "I didn't order any." Well, Eric and Dylan mention in the tapes how they were lucky and if wayne the guy on the phone who had ordered them etc they would have been in big trouble and their plan would have been foiled.

This confuses me, if they would have been in big trouble over that, why wasn't didn't he receive a severe punishment for the bomb?
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeSat Mar 26, 2016 3:11 pm

Does anyone know where I can find a typed up version of Wayne Harris's journal I'm very very bad at reading "fancy"/cursive handwriting like his.
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeThu Mar 31, 2016 10:45 pm

The reason they did not come forward at first is because they were being sued. The reason they did not come forward later is because they want to move on.

Wayne Harris was not abusive and there is not a shred of evidence offered by anyone that he was.
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeFri Apr 01, 2016 5:20 am

Squid wrote:
Does anyone know where I can find a typed up version of Wayne Harris's journal I'm very very bad at reading "fancy"/cursive handwriting like his.
No, unfortunately, 'acolumbinesite' only typed out Dylan and Eric's journals. Wayne's is still in his original writing as it is was in the 11 K. I may try to type it out and post it on the forum if I have some time in the next few days.

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeFri Apr 01, 2016 5:36 am

lasttrain wrote:
The reason they did not come forward at first is because they were being sued.  The reason they did not come forward later is because they want to move on.

Wayne Harris was not abusive and there is not a shred of evidence offered by anyone that he was.

Yeah, I keep seeing/hearing throw away comments about it, with no evidence. I was just wondering if anyone could back it up.

Jenn wrote:
Squid wrote:
Does anyone know where I can find a typed up version of Wayne Harris's journal I'm very very bad at reading "fancy"/cursive handwriting like his.
No, unfortunately, 'acolumbinesite' only typed out Dylan and Eric's journals. Wayne's is still in his original writing as it is was in the 11 K. I may try to type it out and post it on the forum if I have some time in the next few days.

Thank you, that would be helpful, I attempted to but I could understand some of the handwriting.
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeFri Apr 01, 2016 8:52 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] thank you thank you!
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeSat Apr 02, 2016 11:03 pm

Reading Wayne Harris' journal is pretty heartbreaking, even if it is mostly phone numbers and notes about various incidents.  You see that he really did care about Eric and was trying to straighten things out.  He writes on one page that Eric is unwilling to control sleep habits, study habits, and his success in school.  Then he jots notes about how he wants Eric to pursue his interests, ask for advice, seek help when needed, use good judgement, and prove his desire to succeed.  Eric's poor parents had no clue what he was up to. I don't know why.....but this really strikes a nerve with me. You know how many times my parents attempted to set up a doctor appointment for me or talk to me about my grades or study habits or sleep schedule? None.  Because they gave zero fucks.  Eric's dad was truly concerned for his son. This really changes my perspective on things.

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeSun Apr 03, 2016 12:35 am

Freezingmoon wrote:
Reading Wayne Harris' journal is pretty heartbreaking, even if it is mostly phone numbers and notes about various incidents.  You see that he really did care about Eric and was trying to straighten things out.  He writes on one page that Eric is unwilling to control sleep habits, study habits, and his success in school.  Then he jots notes about how he wants Eric to pursue his interests, ask for advice, seek help when needed, use good judgement, and prove his desire to succeed.  Eric's poor parents had no clue what he was up to. I don't know why.....but this really strikes a nerve with me. You know how many times my parents attempted to set up a doctor appointment for me or talk to me about my grades or study habits or sleep schedule? None.  Because they gave zero fucks.  Eric's dad was truly concerned for his son. This really changes my perspective on things.


Now that you have a new perspective, what do you think Eric's relationship with his parents was like?
How do you think they felt about him?How do you think he felt about them?
A lot of people see them as cold because they don't speak out or defend him in public(but I can't agree), so how do you think its been for them since he died.
I can't imagine what it's like to see your child so demonized by so many.
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeSun Apr 03, 2016 6:27 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
Freezingmoon wrote:
Reading Wayne Harris' journal is pretty heartbreaking, even if it is mostly phone numbers and notes about various incidents.  You see that he really did care about Eric and was trying to straighten things out.  He writes on one page that Eric is unwilling to control sleep habits, study habits, and his success in school.  Then he jots notes about how he wants Eric to pursue his interests, ask for advice, seek help when needed, use good judgement, and prove his desire to succeed.  Eric's poor parents had no clue what he was up to. I don't know why.....but this really strikes a nerve with me. You know how many times my parents attempted to set up a doctor appointment for me or talk to me about my grades or study habits or sleep schedule? None.  Because they gave zero fucks.  Eric's dad was truly concerned for his son. This really changes my perspective on things.


Now that you have a new perspective, what do you think Eric's relationship with his parents was like?
How do you think they felt about him?How do you think he felt about them?
A lot of people see them as cold because they don't speak out or defend him in public(but I can't agree), so how do you think its been for them since he died.
I can't imagine what it's like to see your child so demonized by so many.

Or have to come to terms with the horrific choices your child made.

I really feel for the families of Eric and Dylan and for what they had to go through as the result of their sons' actions. From their experience, their lives were completely turned upside down out of nowhere. To accept that the child you loved and raised killed and wounded innocent people and then lose your child on top of that must have been so incredibly painful for them.

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeSun Apr 03, 2016 11:56 am

Wayne Harris does come across as having some concern for his son through his notes. I am struck by the abrupt conciseness of it, but considering his military affiliation, I am not surprised. I sometimes wonder how much of his concern was for his son and how much of it was concern for his family's image?


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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeSun Apr 03, 2016 12:28 pm

Eric is demonized by many,yes.But what I am speaking of here is he is more demonized than Dylan.
Dylan gets more sympathy and understanding.People think Dylan had more potential and would have had a great life if he hadn't of met and become close to Eric.
I don't believe or agree with any of that but that is the general idea many have.

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 04, 2016 6:13 am

Freezingmoon wrote:
Reading Wayne Harris' journal is pretty heartbreaking, even if it is mostly phone numbers and notes about various incidents.  You see that he really did care about Eric and was trying to straighten things out.  He writes on one page that Eric is unwilling to control sleep habits, study habits, and his success in school.  Then he jots notes about how he wants Eric to pursue his interests, ask for advice, seek help when needed, use good judgement, and prove his desire to succeed.  Eric's poor parents had no clue what he was up to. I don't know why.....but this really strikes a nerve with me. You know how many times my parents attempted to set up a doctor appointment for me or talk to me about my grades or study habits or sleep schedule? None.  Because they gave zero fucks.  Eric's dad was truly concerned for his son. This really changes my perspective on things.


ThoughtBox wrote:
Wayne Harris does come across as having some concern for his son through his notes. I am struck by the abrupt conciseness of it, but considering his military affiliation, I am not surprised. I sometimes wonder how much of his concern was for his son and how much of it was concern for his family's image?


I put it down to his military background as well. I was just curious on other people's opinions because I was watching a news report on it the other day (I'll see if I can dig it up) where it referred to the Harris family as emotionally abusive, which I had not heard before. While I do think if the pimp bomb on the mountain incident is true, it's bait sketchy and his dismissiveness of some of the behaviours is a little odd. I do realise that they were conflicted they were constantly blamed for everything which isn't fair.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, who was the family that got - or at least tried to - their son professional help? The Harris family.
This is one of the reasons I have such a grievance with the Klebolds. DISCLAIMER: I am not blaming the Klebolds at all! They tried there best…but I do think people should consider this…



PaintItBlack wrote:
Eric is demonized by many,yes.But what I am speaking of here is he is more demonized than Dylan.
Dylan gets more sympathy and understanding.People think Dylan had more potential and would have had a great life if he hadn't of met and become close to Eric.
I don't believe or agree with any of that but that is the general idea many have.

Please can you clarify, do you mean you don't believe Eric is more demonised, or you don't believe the idea that Dylan would have had great potential without him?

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 04, 2016 6:16 am

Speaking of the pimp bomb incident where Wayne supposedly took Eric to the mountain to blow it up when he found it as punishment. Has this been proven?

I'm not sure it happened as described, I've said this on another thread, but in the BT transcripts Eric mentions how NBK would have been ruined and they would have been in trouble if Wayne had questioned the people on the phone about the clips. Obviously, by that we can assume they would have been disciplined severely enough to have their plans stopped… so if that was the case, why did the friends insinuate he wasn't really punished for the pipe bomb?

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 04, 2016 7:59 am

astrospace92 wrote:
Speaking of the pimp bomb incident where Wayne supposedly took Eric to the mountain to blow it up when he found it as punishment. Has this been proven?

I'm not sure it happened as described, I've said this on another thread, but in the BT transcripts Eric mentions how NBK would have been ruined and they would have been in trouble if Wayne had questioned the people on the phone about the clips. Obviously, by that we can assume they would have been disciplined severely enough to have their plans stopped… so if that was the case, why did the friends insinuate he wasn't really punished for the pipe bomb?


Wayne probably saw the pipe bomb as more a fecked up ''boys will be boys'' thing by the sounds of it. You raise a very good point though, if he didn't think much of that by only brining his son up to the mountains to blow it up, would he have taken any worse action for clips being ordered? I suppose that would mean Eric possibly has guns somewhere in the house and Wayne would have searched his room from top to bottom. Not good at all for Eric considering what he had hidden there.
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 04, 2016 8:58 am

One thing I don't get along those lines....Eric's dad found the pipe bomb and took it from him. But he gave him back all the supplies to make more on the assumption I guess that Eric wouldn't make more because he was caught?

I suppose Eric did write that he had lied about making more bombs so Wayne was probably under the assumption that he wasn't making more but if I were him I would have NOT given him the parts back and I would have continued checking.

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 04, 2016 10:42 am

astrospace92 wrote:
Freezingmoon wrote:
Reading Wayne Harris' journal is pretty heartbreaking, even if it is mostly phone numbers and notes about various incidents.  You see that he really did care about Eric and was trying to straighten things out.  He writes on one page that Eric is unwilling to control sleep habits, study habits, and his success in school.  Then he jots notes about how he wants Eric to pursue his interests, ask for advice, seek help when needed, use good judgement, and prove his desire to succeed.  Eric's poor parents had no clue what he was up to. I don't know why.....but this really strikes a nerve with me. You know how many times my parents attempted to set up a doctor appointment for me or talk to me about my grades or study habits or sleep schedule? None.  Because they gave zero fucks.  Eric's dad was truly concerned for his son. This really changes my perspective on things.


ThoughtBox wrote:
Wayne Harris does come across as having some concern for his son through his notes. I am struck by the abrupt conciseness of it, but considering his military affiliation, I am not surprised. I sometimes wonder how much of his concern was for his son and how much of it was concern for his family's image?


I put it down to his military background as well. I was just curious on other people's opinions because I was watching a news report on it the other day (I'll see if I can dig it up) where it referred to the Harris family as emotionally abusive, which I had not heard before. While I do think if the pimp bomb on the mountain incident is true, it's bait sketchy and his dismissiveness of some of the behaviours is a little odd. I do realise that they were conflicted they were constantly blamed for everything which isn't fair.  

I've said it before and I'll say it again, who was the family that got - or at least tried to - their son professional help? The Harris family.
This is one of the reasons I have such a grievance with the Klebolds. DISCLAIMER: I am not blaming the Klebolds at all! They tried there best…but I do think people should consider this…



PaintItBlack wrote:
Eric is demonized by many,yes.But what I am speaking of here is he is more demonized than Dylan.
Dylan gets more sympathy and understanding.People think Dylan had more potential and would have had a great life if he hadn't of met and become close to Eric.
I don't believe or agree with any of that but that is the general idea many have.

Please can you clarify, do you mean you don't believe Eric is more demonised, or you don't believe the idea that Dylan would have had great potential without him?



Sorry I wasn't clear. Yes, Eric is more demonized than Dylan and no, I do not think Dylan had more potential to go on and have a great life than Eric did.I don't think either would have done this or something like it without the other although its possible one might have went on to commit suicide in the future.

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We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus; That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.-Charles Bukowski

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 04, 2016 1:37 pm

PaintItBlack wrote:
Freezingmoon wrote:
Reading Wayne Harris' journal is pretty heartbreaking, even if it is mostly phone numbers and notes about various incidents.  You see that he really did care about Eric and was trying to straighten things out.  He writes on one page that Eric is unwilling to control sleep habits, study habits, and his success in school.  Then he jots notes about how he wants Eric to pursue his interests, ask for advice, seek help when needed, use good judgement, and prove his desire to succeed.  Eric's poor parents had no clue what he was up to. I don't know why.....but this really strikes a nerve with me. You know how many times my parents attempted to set up a doctor appointment for me or talk to me about my grades or study habits or sleep schedule? None.  Because they gave zero fucks.  Eric's dad was truly concerned for his son. This really changes my perspective on things.


Now that you have a new perspective, what do you think Eric's relationship with his parents was like?
How do you think they felt about him?How do you think he felt about them?
A lot of people see them as cold because they don't speak out or defend him in public(but I can't agree), so how do you think its been for them since he died.
I can't imagine what it's like to see your child so demonized by so many.

I don't assume they're cold because they haven't spoken out. They probably feel like if they did speak out about Eric then it might be seen as disrespectful toward the victims and their families.  And I'm sure they understand that ultimately nobody but Eric and Dylan were to blame.    Plus,  having the entire nation blame you for what your child did and constantly expect some sort of revelation from you must be exhausting after awhile.

To be honest, I think Eric and Dylan both suffered from severe mental illness which obviously  distorted their views.  Looking back on my own past, my parents were the most important people in my life as a child.  As a teenager they sort of became very unimportant....I know that sounds bad, but the teenage years are extremely selfish years.  When I entered my 20's I began to change and realize how much I took for granted in my teenage years.  Eric and Dylan were more selfish and ungrateful than the average teen....to say the least, lol.  Ultimately underneath the hatred and contempt and angst, I think they did love their parents......but that was not something of importance to them at the time.   They weren't mature enough to understand the depth to which the massacre would affect their parents for the rest of their lives.  I think this was in part due to their mental illness/distorted views and in part due to their immaturity and age.

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeMon Apr 04, 2016 11:26 pm

So I have been really bored this evening and was perusing tumblr for Columbine related stuff and came across a post which was basically lashing out at Eric's parents for not coming forward and defending him - against accusations that he wanted to rape girls and against the label of being a psychopath and being the mastermind behind NBK.  I had no idea there were so many Columbiners who hate Eric's parents for not coming forward.  

I don't understand all the hate.  Even if they 100% believe that he wasn't a psychopath, they still don't owe anything to the public.  Nor do they owe Eric anything.  He murdered innocent kids and he made their lives a living hell.  Why would people feel that they need to speak up and defend him? How they feel about their son is their business and they owe nothing to anyone.

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2016 11:55 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
astrospace92 wrote:
Freezingmoon wrote:
Reading Wayne Harris' journal is pretty heartbreaking, even if it is mostly phone numbers and notes about various incidents.  You see that he really did care about Eric and was trying to straighten things out.  He writes on one page that Eric is unwilling to control sleep habits, study habits, and his success in school.  Then he jots notes about how he wants Eric to pursue his interests, ask for advice, seek help when needed, use good judgement, and prove his desire to succeed.  Eric's poor parents had no clue what he was up to. I don't know why.....but this really strikes a nerve with me. You know how many times my parents attempted to set up a doctor appointment for me or talk to me about my grades or study habits or sleep schedule? None.  Because they gave zero fucks.  Eric's dad was truly concerned for his son. This really changes my perspective on things.


ThoughtBox wrote:
Wayne Harris does come across as having some concern for his son through his notes. I am struck by the abrupt conciseness of it, but considering his military affiliation, I am not surprised. I sometimes wonder how much of his concern was for his son and how much of it was concern for his family's image?


I put it down to his military background as well. I was just curious on other people's opinions because I was watching a news report on it the other day (I'll see if I can dig it up) where it referred to the Harris family as emotionally abusive, which I had not heard before. While I do think if the pimp bomb on the mountain incident is true, it's bait sketchy and his dismissiveness of some of the behaviours is a little odd. I do realise that they were conflicted they were constantly blamed for everything which isn't fair.  

I've said it before and I'll say it again, who was the family that got - or at least tried to - their son professional help? The Harris family.
This is one of the reasons I have such a grievance with the Klebolds. DISCLAIMER: I am not blaming the Klebolds at all! They tried there best…but I do think people should consider this…



PaintItBlack wrote:
Eric is demonized by many,yes.But what I am speaking of here is he is more demonized than Dylan.
Dylan gets more sympathy and understanding.People think Dylan had more potential and would have had a great life if he hadn't of met and become close to Eric.
I don't believe or agree with any of that but that is the general idea many have.

Please can you clarify, do you mean you don't believe Eric is more demonised, or you don't believe the idea that Dylan would have had great potential without him?



Sorry I wasn't clear. Yes, Eric is more demonized than Dylan and no, I do not think Dylan had more potential to  go on and have a great life than Eric did.I don't think either would have done this or something like it without the other although its possible one might have went on to commit suicide in the future.

I agree with you.

Freezingmoon wrote:
So I have been really bored this evening and was perusing tumblr for Columbine related stuff and came across a post which was basically lashing out at Eric's parents for not coming forward and defending him - against accusations that he wanted to rape girls and against the label of being a psychopath and being the mastermind behind NBK.  I had no idea there were so many Columbiners who hate Eric's parents for not coming forward.  

I don't understand all the hate.  Even if they 100% believe that he wasn't a psychopath, they still don't owe anything to the public.  Nor do they owe Eric anything.  He murdered innocent kids and he made their lives a living hell.  Why would people feel that they need to speak up and defend him? How they feel about their son is their business and they owe nothing to anyone.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read his journal a few times, and I never saw anything that actually implied rape, just domination.

And I agree, they don't owe anyone anything.

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2016 12:41 pm

astrospace92 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read his journal a few times, and I never saw anything that actually implied rape, just domination.
No, he implies rape and not only rape but violent rape. He says 'Who can I trick into my room'. That basically says it would be against their will or that he would bring them into his room under false pretenses.

I still say and will continue to say that all this stuff in his journal was an act. Eric did get a girl into his room on prom night and was polite to her, and if I recall correctly, held her hand while they watched a movie and kissed her on the cheek when she left.

This is the same girl he left a goodbye message to on The Basement Tapes and after he was dead, I'm pretty sure it was her who wrote a letter to him saying how she felt about him (as in she liked him).

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2016 3:10 pm

you mean susan dewitt? yes she wrote a very kind letter to eric after his death.
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2016 9:55 pm

Freezingmoon wrote:
So I have been really bored this evening and was perusing tumblr for Columbine related stuff and came across a post which was basically lashing out at Eric's parents for not coming forward and defending him - against accusations that he wanted to rape girls and against the label of being a psychopath and being the mastermind behind NBK.  I had no idea there were so many Columbiners who hate Eric's parents for not coming forward.  

I don't understand all the hate.  Even if they 100% believe that he wasn't a psychopath, they still don't owe anything to the public.  Nor do they owe Eric anything.  He murdered innocent kids and he made their lives a living hell.  Why would people feel that they need to speak up and defend him? How they feel about their son is their business and they owe nothing to anyone.


I don't think I can agree that they don't owe him anything.
He is their child so I think they owe him their love, grief and remembrance but I believe he already has all that.

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We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus; That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.-Charles Bukowski
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2016 10:11 pm

I always thought Eric meant by that quote was "What line or story can use on a girl to get her to come back to my room with me?" It's not right but guys tell girls what they want to hear all the time to get sex from them.

_________________
We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus; That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.-Charles Bukowski

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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2016 11:02 pm

PaintItBlack wrote:
Freezingmoon wrote:
So I have been really bored this evening and was perusing tumblr for Columbine related stuff and came across a post which was basically lashing out at Eric's parents for not coming forward and defending him - against accusations that he wanted to rape girls and against the label of being a psychopath and being the mastermind behind NBK.  I had no idea there were so many Columbiners who hate Eric's parents for not coming forward.  

I don't understand all the hate.  Even if they 100% believe that he wasn't a psychopath, they still don't owe anything to the public.  Nor do they owe Eric anything.  He murdered innocent kids and he made their lives a living hell.  Why would people feel that they need to speak up and defend him? How they feel about their son is their business and they owe nothing to anyone.


I don't think I can agree that they don't owe him anything.
He is their child so I think they owe him their love, grief and remembrance but I believe he already has all that.

I agree about them owing him their love, grief, and remembrance.  I guess what I was trying to say is that they simply don't owe the public anything in regards to their feelings for Eric.
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PostSubject: Re: Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?    Why the Harris' won't come forward / Was Wayne Harris abusive?  Icon_minitimeWed Apr 06, 2016 1:25 pm

Jenn wrote:
astrospace92 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read his journal a few times, and I never saw anything that actually implied rape, just domination.
No, he implies rape and not only rape but violent rape. He says 'Who can I trick into my room'. That basically says it would be against their will or that he would bring them into his room under false pretenses.

I still say and will continue to say that all this stuff in his journal was an act. Eric did get a girl into his room on prom night and was polite to her, and if I recall correctly, held her hand while they watched a movie and kissed her on the cheek when she left.

This is the same girl he left a goodbye message to on The Basement Tapes and after he was dead, I'm pretty sure it was her who wrote a letter to him saying how she felt about him (as in she liked him).

em81 wrote:
you mean susan dewitt? yes she wrote a very kind letter to eric after his death.

PaintItBlack wrote:
I always thought Eric meant by that quote was "What line or story can use on a girl to get her to come back to my room with me?" It's not right but guys tell girls what they want to hear all the time to get sex from them.

PaintItBlack, that's how I thought he meant it, too. But either way, I agree with Jenn, I think his journal was all an act.


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