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 Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About

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PostSubject: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 10:24 am

Are there still any Columbine information or myths that still haven't been settled on a clear answer or with legit proof? Anyone still have any grey thoughts or opinions/questions on the crime/boys/people around them?


Last edited by ultraviolencelv on Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:38 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 11:05 am

I'm not really into conspiracies, but I do know some of them; how there was more than one shooter, how the weren't able to build all those bombs alone, and yada,yada,yada. I think we have enough proof to debunk almost all the myths. And the ones we don't are just miscellaneous things that wouldn't change much if they were proven true.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 12:25 pm

It wouldn't change much but it would be open for discussion or be interesting if one or more can be deemed a liar during the aftermath

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 12:31 pm

I'd be interested to see if Randy Brown still believes Eric shot Dylan & why
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 1:11 pm

PotatoSallad wrote:
I'm not really into conspiracies, but I do know some of them; how there was more than one shooter

I think we are all agreed there was more than one shooter.
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 1:14 pm

WhereHateRunsRed wrote:
I'd be interested to see if Randy Brown still believes Eric shot Dylan & why

I'll bring this up next time I speak with him. He gave me a couple of names of books to read which I'm part way through and he says he'll discuss his thoughts with me once I've finished them.

Interestingly, I've been highlighting a few lines as I go through them. One of the books seems to lay the blame at the feet of the parents - possibly meaning he blames Tom and Sue. This surprises me as I expect if they thought they were uncaring parents, he may not have let one of his sons hang around with them. Surely they spent enough time with Dylan and his parents to get a decent perception of their relationship? I dunno, I look forward to his response.
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 1:38 pm

Have there been reports of students/people pretending to be survivors or knowing Eric and Dylan ala 9/11 that woman who claimed she was there?

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 1:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wow, you're in communication with Randy?

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 1:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

What books did he recommend you read?

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 1:57 pm

I won't call this a conspiracy per say but I find everything surrounding Sanders to be weird. In the 11k, two policemen find Dave Sanders with the students helping him. They tell the students to leave. At that point, Ofc Kirk mentions Sanders is looking bad but he is still alive and able to talk and answer questions. He calls for help. Kirk and Ofc Whitus then put Sanders in a chair to move him to another room so that the medic can find them easier.

And then the medic arrives and Sanders is just boom dead....I don't know something just feels odd. I know he was already losing a lot of blood but it just seems weird to me. The testimony from the 2 officers seemed off. I can't explain why I just feel off about it.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 2:02 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] firstly, Sanders' death always tears me, because he really pulled through as long as he could. I really wish he wasn't taken away from the hands of those students cause they were by his side the whole time. So I understand why you may feel off about it,having the officers be the last with him. However I don't think there's anything malicious other than he was ready to be gone and by the time police showed up there was nothing more that could be done. Didn't the group of students with him held up a sign at the window something like "1 bleeding to death"?


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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 2:05 pm

liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] firstly, Sanders' death always tears me, because he really pulled as long as he could. I really wish he wasn't taken away from the hands of those students cause they were by his side the whole time. So I understand why you may feel off about it, having the officers be the last with him. However I don't think there's anything malicious other than he was ready to be gone and by the time police showed up there was nothing more that could be done. Didn't the group of students with him held up a sign at the window something like "1 bleeding to death"?

yes. I don't really want to imply that anyone killed him, I do wonder though if he really was dead when the medic showed up. I am just really sad that what happened to him happened I guess
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 2:10 pm

I think Danny Rohrbough's father still believes Jefferson County lied to him. Or, their fuck-up on the report caused him to have distrust.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 2:21 pm

I would like to know the truth on DeAngelis' movements within the school. I think he is embellishing his story after the fact.

Along with Sean and Richard. Both have changed their stories to add little details that the did not mention at the time of the incident. Richard mentioning about Rachel and talking about God before she died and Sean with talking to Dylan when he stepped on him.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 2:26 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Well we all know what Richard's embellishment has caused the case....numerous versions of "She said yes" when the one who actually had that conversation survived and can't be deemed a martyr. For Sean's case, the only one who would know the truth is him really, as it's between him and a dead person. But I believe him somehow.

Personally I can't stand Frank.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 2:37 pm

liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Well we all know what Richard's embellishment has caused the case....numerous versions of "She said yes" when the one who actually had that conversation survived and can't be deemed a martyr. For Sean's case, the only one who would know the truth is him really, as it's between him and a dead person. But I believe him somehow.

Personally I can't stand Frank.

Frank drives me nuts. I watched a documentary where he was like "Sanders saved my life because he took a bullet for me" blah blah blah but then to read what is in the 11k...he was never near the shooters at all. He never saw Sanders and was never really shot at. Others back up the 11k statement so wtf does he go around trying to be some kind of hero? Yes he saved some girls in the gym but to insert yourself someplace you were not just is stupid
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 2:53 pm

Draw_It_White wrote:
WhereHateRunsRed wrote:
I'd be interested to see if Randy Brown still believes Eric shot Dylan & why

I'll bring this up next time I speak with him. He gave me a couple of names of books to read which I'm part way through and he says he'll discuss his thoughts with me once I've finished them.

Interestingly, I've been highlighting a few lines as I go through them. One of the books seems to lay the blame at the feet of the parents - possibly meaning he blames Tom and Sue. This surprises me as I expect if they thought they were uncaring parents, he may not have let one of his sons hang around with them. Surely they spent enough time with Dylan and his parents to get a decent perception of their relationship? I dunno, I look forward to his response.


One thing is important to remember is that while the Browns became very close to the Klebolds in the first few years after the shootings and had known them a long time,they fell out in 2004 because they wanted the Klebolds to meet with the victims families outside of the court case and they didn't feel comfortable doing that and their lawyers strongly advised against it.
As far as I know they never patched things up.It was only after they fell out that they started to become critical of the Klebolds in public.Make of that what you will.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 3:10 pm

liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wow, you're in communication with Randy?

Only slightly, I think he's just being polite in replying to my emails to him. We've had vague discussions but he said he'd go into a bit more detail once I've finished the books.

The books are called When a Child Kills by Paul Mones and the other one escapes me now. I think it might simply be called Violence and I can't remember the authors name. I'll get back to you on that.

If anyone wants these after I'm done and is UK based I can post them out for free. I give away most books when I'm done but don't like dropping such ones in a charity shop! *though I appreciate nobody probably wants to pm a Columbine researcher their home address - I can send to work or elsewhere if necessary!
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 3:13 pm

Draw_It_White wrote:
liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wow, you're in communication with Randy?

Only slightly, I think he's just being polite in replying to my emails to him. We've had vague discussions but he said he'd go into a bit more detail once I've finished the books.

The books are called When a Child Kills by Paul Mones and the other one escapes me now. I think it might simply be called Violence and I can't remember the authors name. I'll get back to you on that.

If anyone wants these after I'm done and is UK based I can post them out for free. I give away most books when I'm done but don't like dropping such ones in a charity shop! *though I appreciate nobody probably wants to pm a Columbine researcher their home address - I can send to work or elsewhere if necessary!

I looked up the one mentioned and it seems like it is mostly about children killing their own parents. Is that right? Interesting that he would want you to read that
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 3:19 pm

James Gilligan was the author of the other one.
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 4:53 pm

Thanks to a poster who posted about the radio show in this thread [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], guys, this a really fascinating listen on a Columbine featuring Brian (Danny's father) and Randy Brown. Quite a few insight on jeffco and reports I've never heard about regarding the case. The episodes can be found on this site [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] just look up "Rohrbough" or "Columbine".
The part that fascinates me the most on the first episode is when Brian and Randy stated it was a blatant lie jeffco told the parents that every kid's bodies were booby-trapped as their bodies were left as it was yet also tampered.


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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 4:56 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that's interesting. Is there a reason why he'd only answer questions after you read those books? Is it to set your perspective in a certain way?

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 5:35 pm

For me, I feel one of the biggest debacles in the whole case could be considered conspiratorial; that is, the way JeffCo tried to cover their asses AFTER the fact, in light of all the information they had prior to 4.20.99, especially in regard to Eric, his troublemaking/threats, explosive making, and the complaints against him by the Browns I believe.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 6:05 pm

ThoughtBox wrote:
For me, I feel one of the biggest debacles in the whole case could be considered conspiratorial; that is, the way JeffCo tried to cover their asses AFTER the fact, in light of all the information they had prior to 4.20.99, especially in regard to Eric, his troublemaking/threats, explosive making, and the complaints against him by the Browns I believe.

Yes that. I wonder how "powerful" Eric would have felt had he known that the police wrote up a search warrant on his house but never went thru with it being that he considered all of his close calls as adding to the NBK experience....
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 6:59 pm

Jefferson County's coverup and their dealings between them prior but especially after 4/20 is amazing. It's also what makes Columbine more than a school shooting crime and so infamous. So many factors play into this.
They were so adamant with their coverup because they knew this could have been prevented. Many reports and complaints had been made to them and they chucked it aside leaving it to fill up with dust. When 4/20 happened they had to set aside a private meeting and figure out how to lie about alot of things and where the hell to find all the documents they had. When parents especially Randy Brown and along the way Brian Rorhbough aswell hounded them to release what they know, even then they were still covering other stuff. If we think about it what we know now and what we can refer to isn't even EVERYTHING that we need to know. In a way we gotta thank Randy for doing what he could to make jeffco release even half of half-assed and tampered evidence.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 7:20 pm

It's fascinating because what the browns did was let out the fact that Jeffco lied and had planned to continue covering their failure up had they not been hounded to release neglected reports.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 8:07 pm

I have also heard that the 11k is horrible because there are duplicated pages, missing pages, weird things redacted and that tends to be my experience. Jeffco is covering for something that is for sure.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 8:25 pm

Thank goodness some of these parents did discreet internal affairs recordings of meetings and the infamous basement tape and all the hounding they did for us to know there were dirty work and tampering of this horrid case. You know what I'd like to see? crime scene photos, more of them.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 10:25 pm

liquorvamp wrote:
You know what I'd like to see? crime scene photos, more of them.

May I ask why? Hopefully not just for a prurient interest.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 10:34 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] oh absolutely for prurient interests. You know me way too well. The more thorough vision of red jelly matters the better right guys.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 11:19 pm

People STILL talk about the Cassie Barnall/Do you believe in God? thing even after its been debunked over and over again
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 11:49 pm

liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that's interesting. Is there a reason why he'd only answer questions after you read those books? Is it to set your perspective in a certain way?

I don't think so. I imagine he gets people now and then getting in contact with him.

I guess the thing with the books is what he personally believes was responsible for what happened. I assume if someone discusses those issues he will be able to put his point across a lot better with them being the reason he's come to his personal conclusion.

From what I know about Columbine myself, I'd be inclined to disagree with what I imagine Randy believes caused it - but don't forget this guy knows way more than what we think we know.

All us guys can go off is the 11k and a few other sources. Randy was close when it happened, knew Eric & Dylan before it happened and had access to documents that have never been released. He's also gone through all the available information we have in immense detail, probably several times over.

I think people are quick to dismiss some of what Brooks says, and I think rightly so, but Randy I think is about as clued up as you can get on Columbine.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeFri May 20, 2016 12:13 am

I don't know if this counts as a conspiracy but the whole Dylan passing brooks a note about Eric's website, I question the validity of the story because John savage said brooks embellishes
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeFri May 20, 2016 12:14 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] oh absolutely. I wouldn't dare to be so quick to disregard randy cause he definitely knows more. He's been there in person talking with the people who fucked the entire case and its reports up. randy's the one with literally a room of documents. As much as the obsession is almost comical but I can understand it. I was just wondering what was up with the whole books thing.

also what is your username in reference to? Hahah, just wondering

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeFri May 20, 2016 12:15 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think we've settled on the fact that it was a lie and it was his brother Aaron who gave him the heads up.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeFri May 20, 2016 12:25 am

liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] oh absolutely for prurient interests. You know me way too well. The more thorough vision of red jelly matters the better right guys.


lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeSat May 21, 2016 5:40 am

The whole Eric and Dylan saying 1,2,3 before killing themselves.
I'd like to know what their last words to eachother really were.
Did they shake hands or do a fist bump before hand Shocked
To bad we will never truly know.
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeSat May 21, 2016 7:34 am

I don't know if its considered a conspiracy, but I've always found the idea that Eric wanted to get caught fascinating. He writes in his journal and brags about how good at hiding and lying he is, but his IRL actions don't always match up with that. First off he didnt even attempt to lie to his diversion counselor. He fully admitted to being angry, having violent thoughts, and wanting to kill himself. Lying to trained professionals is like the SuperBowl for sociopaths, yet Eric was a good little boy and told the truth. Uploading the plans for NBK to the schools computer system on 4/19 was a risky move, as was giving the gun shop his home phone number. He also had the CHS poster with a picture of a bomb and "clue" written on it hanging on his wall, right next to a spool of canon fuse. Then there was the "Nixon Tape" he left on his kitchen counter before leaving home on 4/20. Had one of his parents came home and played that tape they could have called the cops or the school itself and ruined everything. Wayne would have done it too since he called the police to report Eric once reports started coming in on the news. In fact Wayne may have called BECAUSE he heard the Nixon Tape. To top it all off we know Eric cried on the BT because he wouldn't get to see his old friends. I think its safe to say he had at least a little doubt in NBK.

Of course its entirely possible this was all a "twist of the knife" kind of deal and Eric wanted all the connections to be made after the fact. This is one of the few topics I'm still on the fence about. Eric was an evil little shit, but people give him way too much credit in that department. He wanted us to think he was on the level of a god, but I feel like he left enough for us to see the true him through all the bullshit posturing, The crying on film, absolving his parents and friends of guilt, writing about how much he craved the acceptance of his peers, admitting that he hated himself, etc.. I just think Eric is more interesting from that angle over the tired and incorrect psychopathic view the media took. He was a scared child who just wanted attention, not the hardass master ind he tried to make himself out to be.
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeSat May 21, 2016 9:59 am

Nirvana92 wrote:
I don't know if its considered a conspiracy, but I've always found the idea that Eric wanted to get caught fascinating. He writes in his journal and brags about how good at hiding and lying he is, but his IRL actions don't always match up with that. First off he didnt even attempt to lie to his diversion counselor. He fully admitted to being angry, having violent thoughts, and wanting to kill himself. Lying to trained professionals is like the SuperBowl for sociopaths, yet Eric was a good little boy and told the truth. Uploading the plans for NBK to the schools computer system on 4/19 was a risky move, as was giving the gun shop his home phone number. He also had the CHS poster with a picture of a bomb and "clue" written on it hanging on his wall, right next to a spool of canon fuse. Then there was the "Nixon Tape" he left on his kitchen counter before leaving home on 4/20. Had one of his parents came home and played that tape they could have called the cops or the school itself and ruined everything. Wayne would have done it too since he called the police to report Eric once reports started coming in on the news. In fact Wayne may have called BECAUSE he heard the Nixon Tape. To top it all off we know Eric cried on the BT because he wouldn't get to see his old friends. I think its safe to say he had at least a little doubt in NBK.

Of course its entirely possible this was all a "twist of the knife" kind of deal and Eric wanted all the connections to be made after the fact. This is one of the few topics I'm still on the fence about. Eric was an evil little shit, but people give him way too much credit in that department. He wanted us to think he was on the level of a god, but I feel like he left enough for us to see the true him through all the bullshit posturing, The crying on film, absolving his parents and friends of guilt, writing about how much he craved the acceptance of his peers, admitting that he hated himself, etc.. I just think Eric is more interesting from that angle over the tired and incorrect psychopathic view the media took. He was a scared child who just wanted attention, not the hardass master ind he tried to make himself out to be.

I think he got off on "living on edge". Pushing things to the limit of almost getting caught, and getting a "high" off the thrill of almost getting caught to prove how "stupid" us non "godlike" people were.
Like you said, in some instances he literally gave away the fact he had homicidal thoughts, etc etc. Even his room had stuff that wasn't hidden well, his parents bound to find if they did a through check up.
The gunshop thing always boggled my mind. I get that he didn't have a cell phone, but apparently he had a line that went to his room, I read somewhere in the 11K. Not sure why he didn't give them that number, or maybe a friends number or pager number such as Robyn. I wonder if he just wasn't thinking out of excitement, or he really took the chance. The last paragraph is why there has been so much argument about if Eric really was a psychopath or not. Some people still say it's impossible to diagnose post mortem.
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeSat May 21, 2016 12:01 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I read in another thread which I believed in that the most realistic thing that could possibly happen was they didn't say anything to one another when they took their lives. Eric just went ahead and got to it first whilst Dylan was busy stalling, setting the molotov off and taking his possessions off of him and then shooting himself second.

That's the most realistic it could go down. I don't think it's like tv shows/movies where there were dialogues. Maybe they did had a 3 second eye contact towards one another that meant "this is it"? perhaps. but I think they wanted to do it as fast as possible - eric at least. I would believe he did it swiftly just so he wouldn't have to the time to turn back. Cause I feel if either of the two wouldn't mind getting out alive at least it's Eric. but, perhaps not, not after the damage done.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeSat May 21, 2016 12:18 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Thank you Nirvana. let's get to this cause boy do I agree too.

"He writes in his journal and brags about how good at hiding and lying he is, but his IRL actions don't always match up with that. First off he didnt even attempt to lie to his diversion counselor. He fully admitted to being angry, having violent thoughts, and wanting to kill himself. Lying to trained professionals is like the SuperBowl for sociopaths, yet Eric was a good little boy and told the truth. Uploading the plans for NBK to the schools computer system on 4/19 was a risky move, as was giving the gun shop his home phone number. He also had the CHS poster with a picture of a bomb and "clue" written on it hanging on his wall, right next to a spool of canon fuse. Then there was the "Nixon Tape" he left on his kitchen counter before leaving home on 4/20. Had one of his parents came home and played that tape they could have called the cops or the school itself and ruined everything. Wayne would have done it too since he called the police to report Eric once reports started coming in on the news. In fact Wayne may have called BECAUSE he heard the Nixon Tape. To top it all off we know Eric cried on the BT because he wouldn't get to see his old friends. I think its safe to say he had at least a little doubt in NBK."

I agree. I do feel that's both between deliberately wanting to get caught but also careless moves. In fact this sentiment has been shared amongst some of the parents aswell such as brian rohrbough who brought this up back on a 2006 local radio show he did. His answers on the diversion assessment was already a red flag. he ticked ON PAPER he was homicidal. if that wasn't a neglect on people who could have helped him out then idk what it is. Yes, it is fascinating, and I believe he wanted to get caught, which always makes this very bittersweet to me. Despite enjoying how manipulative he was, I think he was also sinking in and proving a point to the world after 4/20 HOW DUMB the people around him was and how they believed anything a teenager says. Same with Dylan when he went about his days prior to 4/20 like it's all good. Him crying that one time in the BT about childhood friends kills me. I mean of course, he's recounting the fact that once upon a time he was a good kid and his years in Columbine were pure hell.

"Of course its entirely possible this was all a "twist of the knife" kind of deal and Eric wanted all the connections to be made after the fact. -- agreed.

"This is one of the few topics I'm still on the fence about. Eric was an evil little shit, but people give him way too much credit in that department. He wanted us to think he was on the level of a god, but I feel like he left enough for us to see the true him through all the bullshit posturing, The crying on film, absolving his parents and friends of guilt, writing about how much he craved the acceptance of his peers, admitting that he hated himself, etc.. I just think Eric is more interesting from that angle over the tired and incorrect psychopathic view the media took. He was a scared child who just wanted attention, not the hardass mastermind he tried to make himself out to be." -- I agree. I however feel that one time he cried that was real but after which the rest of the posturing was part of this theatrics such as the way the tone of his journal entries changed along the way deliberately. Him leaving enough for us to analyze WAS INDEED what he wanted to do. In fact the whole I am God thing was part of the bullshit because it's to spill to the rest of us how dumb we are to believe that and to be afraid of that. Of course he felt he had power, because the people around him let it happen. Put a gun between him and an individual and who has the upper hand? of course him. He's bringing to light that a massacre could happen if people let it happen. In a way he had given prompts and signs to stop it and no one did so he thought well, about time to see it through then. Adios idiots.

I don't believe Eric was a psychopath nor sociopath. If anything he was real and raw as can be. He didn't care that it was mass murder he was going to commit. He had that whole rant about how we were taught that murder is wrong or something like that but that's because society has been brainwashed to believe that bla bla but I really forgot what he said...and he also wrote how he wished he was sociopath because they didn't have feelings...
For eric, those were conscious decisions made. He was a mentally unstable and insecure teenager who slipped through the cracks and got off on the fact that his beliefs could be acted out in real life. at first he had all these anger written down and when Dylan came along somehow they agreed to make it happen. People kept saying how Dylan shouldn't have met Eric. If anything I feel it should be the other way round.


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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeSat May 21, 2016 5:50 pm

I read somewhere that there's debate over them wanting to do it on 4/19 or 4/20
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeSat May 21, 2016 6:42 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ah? oh yeah i rbr sth like that. I think the original date was sometime early april? pre-prom or after...?
and wasn't the delay due to sth about mark being late with buying them ammo or is that my imagination

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeSat May 21, 2016 6:56 pm

Dave Cullen said the ammo thing but Eric was 18 so idk why he went through Mark. The 4/19 thing was mentioned elsewhere
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeSat May 21, 2016 7:52 pm

Thanks liquorvamp. I agree that NBK became a very bitter thing for Eric. I very much see the statement he wanted to make being:

"I hated you people so much that I planned to kill all of you for over a year. I built bombs, acquired guns, and stocked up on ammo while hiding right under your nose. I gave you every chance to stop me but you were too dumb to figure out the clues. I don't want to die, but I also don't want to live in your world either. Hopefully you will learn something from my killings, because if you don't it will happen again."

It reminds me of the quote from Zero Day, "We're doing this because we love you." Eric wanted to be caught because it would prove his beliefs wrong. Not only would it have stopped him from having to die, but it would prove that human weren't the mindless zombies he saw them as. I've seen it said that Eric wouldn't have backed out because he saw himself as a soldier, and soldiers do whatever it takes to complete their mission. By not catching on to his clues it also showed (in his mind) how little interest the world had in him. He could plan mass murder for a year and no one cared enough to stop him. Ultimately he came to see that his feelings didnt matter, and NBK became more about the message as a whole over getting personal revenge.
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeSat May 21, 2016 7:57 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] OH MY GOD YES thank you I agree. very very well put. thank you, yes, that's it.
and it is still, so sad to me. I do not condone his murder at all but that's what bittersweet is all about. He and Dylan needed help too. He was screaming silently all the signs. He knew he was a normal growing boy once. He just gave up. And the whole solder-mission part, that is so true. He was morbidly strategic and determined with the ways he was gonna execute it all. As I said idk which thread, this trait about him which I actually admire, is he never backs out on sth he wants to do.

Thank you. Oh girl I wanna print your paragraph out and hang it on my wall hahah.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeMon May 23, 2016 5:14 am

This is all so very sad. I wish things could have been different for him. If only he and Dylan could have just lightened up a little and not taken Everything so hard. I wish he could have realised that he was not the only teenager on the planet that felt these things. I feel like he was a good person deep down, just very troubled. Same with Dylan. They just brought out the worst in each other and made a terrible decision and an even bigger mistake.

Honestly what they should've done was walked into that school and blew their brains out in front of everyone, without killing anyone else. Give a speech first or leave a note, whichever they felt like doing to explain why they were driven to suicide. That way they would have received sympathy instead of hate from the community and the world. I almost wish that's how it would've went down instead of them taking 13 innocent lives with them. It sucks that anyone (including E&D) had to die that day. If they wanted to send a powerful message that bad, that's the way they should have done it.
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeMon May 23, 2016 10:27 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] well, yeah. however, I'm not sure how to explain this without sounding morbid or as if I condone mass murder or sympathize with them..but i'm just gonna put it like this;
they can't get their point across without killing people. Killing the people, was the entire point to NBK. they HAD to take people down with them, didn't matter who. It had to be a life, a zombie to society before them. It's so sullen but, without the act of their mass murder Columbine wouldn't be what it is now and it wouldn't be cared and sensationalised so much. It's horrid but their story can't be of this impact had they just taken their own lives. Oh, no. Maybe Dylan might if he went solo, but Eric? He was narcissistic in his beliefs too much to not take people's lives.
Remember that sentiment that's been spread around, saying Dylan didn't care if he had to kill people to kill himself whereas Eric didn't care if he had to kill himself to kill people. In a way, it's almost like they would only be down to kill themselves if it meant they got to kill people.
You got this two put together fitted like separate pieces of a puzzle. Columbine had to be its glamorized school mass murder-suicide of the century.
For a period their story was the catalyst and inspiration for teenage-outcasts because of the idea they had spread -- just because i was a nobody, i was a loser, and now i found the easiest way out didn't mean i would end my own life with you knowing my story of being rejected and giving up, still being a loser. instead, i'm going to take YOU, who overlooked me, WITH me. Had their bombs worked too? They would have taken hundreds out.

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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeMon May 23, 2016 1:36 pm

liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I read in another thread which I believed in that the most realistic thing that could possibly happen was they didn't say anything to one another when they took their lives. Eric just went ahead and got to it first whilst Dylan was busy stalling, setting the molotov off and taking his possessions off of him and then shooting himself second.

That's the most realistic it could go down. I don't think it's like tv shows/movies where there were dialogues. Maybe they did had a 3 second eye contact towards one another that meant "this is it"? perhaps. but I think they wanted to do it as fast as possible - eric at least. I would believe he did it swiftly just so he wouldn't have to the time to turn back. Cause I feel if either of the two wouldn't mind getting out alive at least it's Eric. but, perhaps not, not after the damage done.

I actually thru prompting by Sororityalpha found testimony proving that the cops removed Dylan's items after he died. Dylan did not remove anything.

I do think he stalled to make sure Eric went first but I don't think he was long after.
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PostSubject: Re: Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About    Columbine Myths or Conspiracies Not Yet Debunked/Still On The Fence About  Icon_minitimeMon May 23, 2016 2:19 pm

Randy states the police were shooting at the school, long after Eric and Dylan were dead. I have a feeling we wont get Randy's information out until he is on his death bed, perhaps he's worried about backlash, but it seems he's holding onto something important.

Why is the CCTV footage missing during the bomb planting, and when Dylan enters the side entrance?

Eric and Dylan and their connection with the TCM, were they ever members? TCM being the biggest myth debunked, people thought they were satanists, but they were just bunch of friends who bowled and drank cream soda together.

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