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 A few questions... As a noob in this forum.

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PostSubject: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 3:12 am

Hi everyone. Before asking these questions I just want to say that I absolutely love this forum and all of the fascinating information in it. The following questions are not because I disagree with any of your opinions, but just because I'm a little behind on certain aspects of Columbine and I'm genuinely curious.

1. Why does everybody hate Cullen? Was it solely because of how he portrayed Dylan as the sad follower and Eric as the psychopath? Were there other lies? And how does everybody know that he was wrong?

2. Following the first question, why is everyone here so sure that the "Dylan-depressive and Eric-psychopath" conclusion is wrong? Is it solely based on the fact that Dylan seemed to come up with NBK first? Is there anything else to indicate that Eric wasn't psychopathic and Dylan was?

3. Why does Brooks Brown have a bad reputation among columbiners? Everyone says he makes stuff up. I read somewhere that he admitted to lying about stuff. What has he lied about? When did he admit this? Why doesn't anybody trust him?

I don't mean for these questions to sound confrontational or like I'm trying to debate. I just simply don't know the answers to them and I'd like to hear from those of you who are more knowledgable than me.
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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 4:29 am

I don't think Cullen is a million miles out with most of what he says. Some on here support his view but the majority don't.

If you go back over the pages you'll probably see at least one topic per page with a title that should help answer some of your questions - 'Was Eric really a psychopath?' and things like that. There have been a fair few discussions about it already.
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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 4:45 am

Draw_It_White wrote:
I don't think Cullen is a million miles out with most of what he says. Some on here support his view but the majority don't.

If you go back over the pages you'll probably see at least one topic per page with a title that should help answer some of your questions - 'Was Eric really a psychopath?' and things like that. There have been a fair few discussions about it already.

You're right. My 2nd question is answered pretty well in several places throughout the forum. My apologies, scratch that question. But I still want to know the other two. I can find plenty of topics where people express hate towards Cullen and Brooks but I'm having a hard time finding the root of those opinions. Could someone give me the run-down?
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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 5:29 am

These are some great questions, especially for others new researchers who come across this forum.

Brooks was involved in an incident with an underage girl online and things got a little messy, and once this leaked onto the internet people began to have a dislike for him for obvious reasons. That is putting it simply, I would suggest further researching this if you wanted to know more.


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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 6:36 am

That underage girl situation in regards to Brooks and, just from the way he speaks and the attention he got online due to Columbine, no surprise if he may have lied about a couple of stuff to fuel his chronic habit of fabricating stuff. Also, I believe Eric himself wrote in his journal or his site about Brooks being a liar. Someone may have thrown that claim to him so he had no choice but to admit he did lie.

But overall, I don't have no problems with Brooks. I mean, sometimes he's pretty helpful with the things he shares no doubt since he actually knew Dylan and Eric in the flesh, and his father Randy was or perhaps is still active online and has talked to a few people on this forum if I'm not wrong. I'm okay with the Browns.

No comments on Cullen and as for the second one it's very well established throughout this forum. That second question doesn't have an official answer, it relies on what you choose to believe in as an individual in the end. Eric and Dylan are complex characters. / Dylan was indeed depressive however they are both not psychopaths. Why you may ask, well the things they write in their journals VS the way they really are in real life, alongside how they were on 4/20/99 itself when they were very much not natural born killers but just teenagers with a gun who didn't even make their bombs right, how Eric was actually a sensitive person who wished he didn't have feelings and how Dylan was the oscar-winning actor throughout till the day he died just because he was always a step behind Eric. He was deliberately taking orders for a reason; because Eric was a doer and he was the only who agreed and delivered to his idea of a mass-murder.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 8:29 am

Brooks lied in his book. Flat out. He alters his timeline of the snowball incident to make it seem like he was closer to Eric. When in reality he really didn't talk to Eric much until right before April.

I do appreciate him though because he does put himself out there to answer things. Even if we may not like the answers. A lot of people involved with Columbine are trying to put it behind them.

And I don't know that I have ever read Brooks admitting to lying, but there are so many people that say he exaggerates and lies including Eric himself.

I think the reason I don't like Cullen is he never seems to admit to any mistakes in his book and he thinks his idea is right. His way or the highway. He got a few things wrong in his book and still pushes those ideas as if they were facts.

Apparently now, he has admitted that Brenda Parker was false, but I cannot find where he admitted to that so I am skeptical.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 8:53 am

Welcome to the forum [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], and great questions that you ask here. I think a lot of this has been covered in some of the most recent threads, by looking into them you'll get your answers and find even more questions to ask!

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 8:56 am

Sue's book provides probably the most truthful and honest answers we can ever get. And for that I didn't bother reading Brown's or Cullen's books. If you haven't read Sue's book yet I highly recommend you do.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 9:41 am

aquillina wrote:
Sue's book provides probably the most truthful and honest answers we can ever get. And for that I didn't bother reading Brown's or Cullen's books. If you haven't read Sue's book yet I highly recommend you do.

I'm not convinced.
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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 10:31 am

aquillina wrote:
Sue's book provides probably the most truthful and honest answers we can ever get. And for that I didn't bother reading Brown's or Cullen's books. If you haven't read Sue's book yet I highly recommend you do.
Sue's book is just Cullen's book 'Columbine' 2.0. She basically blames Eric saying that Dylan only followed Eric into doing it and that he only did it because he was depressed and mentally sick, yada, yada, yada. The same story that Cullen tried selling. Well, it was her son's idea. And evidence paints the picture of Eric actually being the one who followed Dylan.

Personally, I don't buy anything any of these books have to say. Their all bias in one way or another. You want the truth? Go through the actual evidence. The actual facts. Not read books that are loosely based on Columbine.

And btw, welcome to the forum.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 10:33 am

Is there any proof about that Brooks incident with the underage girl? I thought that was just some troll using his name on Tumblr.
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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 10:39 am

Archvile wrote:
Is there any proof about that Brooks incident with the underage girl? I thought that was just some troll using his name on Tumblr.

I don' think there was ever any hard proof. I think I read somewhere that the photo of Brooks that was used was stolen...and afaik Brooks didn't say it was or wasn't him. I don't know I don't really believe it myself.
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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 10:54 am

Brooks use to have a blog in 2006 which had 100s of photos of him & his family on it, they were probably taken from there.
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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 11:12 am

I think there was a video too that he did for the underage girl....yknow what kind of vid I mean.
I never saw it. Those who were there at the time for the show did apparently so, eh

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 11:43 am

liquorvamp wrote:
I think there was a video too that he did for the underage girl....yknow what kind of vid I mean.
I never saw it. Those who were there at the time for the show did apparently so, eh
I saw it. And the pictures too. Not only did he send her disgusting photos and videos but he also sent her pictures of his face. And in his gross ass video he was wearing the same shirt he had on in the photos showing his face.

He's disgusting and I bet that he uses his 'connection' to Columbine to chat up and get attention from fangirls. No wonder his wife left him.

He claims it wasn't him and that somebody else set him up. I don't buy that though. I think it was him.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 12:26 pm

Jenn wrote:
I saw it. And the pictures too. Not only did he send her disgusting photos and videos but he also sent her pictures of his face. And in his gross ass video he was wearing the same shirt he had on in the photos showing his face.

He's disgusting and I bet that he uses his 'connection' to Columbine to chat up and get attention from fangirls. No wonder his wife left him.

He claims it wasn't him and that somebody else set him up. I don't buy that though. I think it was him.

ah! oh good lord! ahhhahhh ohhh brooks......yikes. Yeah he definitely did. He LOVED the attention. To me it seemed like he could use the platform for possible repression or something, I'm not sure if he always had a thing for underage girls or at that point of time or, he was fulfilling some sort of desire...?
I never saw any of it, only the screenshots of the conversation and I actually believe he did all of that.




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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 10:06 pm

Jenn wrote:
aquillina wrote:
Sue's book provides probably the most truthful and honest answers we can ever get. And for that I didn't bother reading Brown's or Cullen's books. If you haven't read Sue's book yet I highly recommend you do.
Sue's book is just Cullen's book 'Columbine' 2.0. She basically blames Eric saying that Dylan only followed Eric into doing it and that he only did it because he was depressed and mentally sick, yada, yada, yada. The same story that Cullen tried selling. Well, it was her son's idea. And evidence paints the picture of Eric actually being the one who followed Dylan.

Personally, I don't buy anything any of these books have to say. Their all bias in one way or another. You want the truth? Go through the actual evidence. The actual facts. Not read books that are loosely based on Columbine.

And btw, welcome to the forum.


I agree,Jenn.What a disappointment Sue's book was ,even for so for those of us who waited years for it.
While its understandable as a Mom, it was also disheartening to see the level of denial she is still in.
But then if she didn't blame it on Eric could she have really written a book? What would there have been to say,to make a book out of if she didn't?

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PaintItBlack

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 10:11 pm

Jenn wrote:
liquorvamp wrote:
I think there was a video too that he did for the underage girl....yknow what kind of vid I mean.
I never saw it. Those who were there at the time for the show did apparently so, eh
I saw it. And the pictures too. Not only did he send her disgusting photos and videos but he also sent her pictures of his face. And in his gross ass video he was wearing the same shirt he had on in the photos showing his face.

He's disgusting and I bet that he uses his 'connection' to Columbine to chat up and get attention from fangirls. No wonder his wife left him.

He claims it wasn't him and that somebody else set him up. I don't buy that though. I think it was him.


I too, saw all the evidence and there was just too much to say it wasn't him.I think he would have met up with her too if she hadn't dropped the bomb on him that she was really 18 not 16, playing him etc.
I don't have anything against him but this really tarnished his reputation with many.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 10:45 pm

Jenn wrote:
liquorvamp wrote:
I think there was a video too that he did for the underage girl....yknow what kind of vid I mean.
I never saw it. Those who were there at the time for the show did apparently so, eh
I saw it. And the pictures too. Not only did he send her disgusting photos and videos but he also sent her pictures of his face. And in his gross ass video he was wearing the same shirt he had on in the photos showing his face.

He's disgusting and I bet that he uses his 'connection' to Columbine to chat up and get attention from fangirls. No wonder his wife left him.

He claims it wasn't him and that somebody else set him up. I don't buy that though. I think it was him.

I had no clue Brooks was married and got divorced. That sucks. Anyway, welcome to the forum buddy. Pretty much everything you asked can be found by searching the fourm.
Some threads are really good, and go into great detail and have great debates. Alot of the "was so and so really psyco" type questions are hard to answer since it's not proper to
diagnose someone after they are dead, but you have people here who are on both sides of the fence. It's cool to hear everyones take though. Enjoy your stay cheers
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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 10:59 pm

PaintItBlack wrote:
Jenn wrote:
aquillina wrote:
Sue's book provides probably the most truthful and honest answers we can ever get. And for that I didn't bother reading Brown's or Cullen's books. If you haven't read Sue's book yet I highly recommend you do.
Sue's book is just Cullen's book 'Columbine' 2.0. She basically blames Eric saying that Dylan only followed Eric into doing it and that he only did it because he was depressed and mentally sick, yada, yada, yada. The same story that Cullen tried selling. Well, it was her son's idea. And evidence paints the picture of Eric actually being the one who followed Dylan.

Personally, I don't buy anything any of these books have to say. Their all bias in one way or another. You want the truth? Go through the actual evidence. The actual facts. Not read books that are loosely based on Columbine.

And btw, welcome to the forum.


I agree,Jenn.What a disappointment Sue's book was ,even for so for those of us who waited years for it.
While its understandable as a Mom, it was also disheartening to see the level of denial she is still in.
But then if she didn't blame it on Eric could she have really written a book? What would there have been to say,to make a book out of if she didn't?
I guess I can see where everyone is coming from on this. Maybe I should stud the 11k reports more. Could she have written the book differently if she had not blamed Eric at all? In fact if she never had any blame whatsoever would she have ever stepped forward and broken her silence? I have yet to hear the Harris' side of the story which I doubt we ever will.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 11:56 pm

aquillina wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
Jenn wrote:
aquillina wrote:
Sue's book provides probably the most truthful and honest answers we can ever get. And for that I didn't bother reading Brown's or Cullen's books. If you haven't read Sue's book yet I highly recommend you do.
Sue's book is just Cullen's book 'Columbine' 2.0. She basically blames Eric saying that Dylan only followed Eric into doing it and that he only did it because he was depressed and mentally sick, yada, yada, yada. The same story that Cullen tried selling. Well, it was her son's idea. And evidence paints the picture of Eric actually being the one who followed Dylan.

Personally, I don't buy anything any of these books have to say. Their all bias in one way or another. You want the truth? Go through the actual evidence. The actual facts. Not read books that are loosely based on Columbine.

And btw, welcome to the forum.


I agree,Jenn.What a disappointment Sue's book was ,even for so for those of us who waited years for it.
While its understandable as a Mom, it was also disheartening to see the level of denial she is still in.
But then if she didn't blame it on Eric could she have really written a book? What would there have been to say,to make a book out of if she didn't?
I guess I can see where everyone is coming from on this. Maybe I should stud the 11k reports more. Could she have written the book differently if she had not blamed Eric at all? In fact if she never had any blame whatsoever would she have ever stepped forward and broken her silence? I have yet to hear the Harris' side of the story which I doubt we ever will.


I think she could have written the book dealing with both boys mental issues and all the other factors that led up to this like bullying,being ostracized,Eric being moved so much and so on but I don't think that would have produced the sympathy and understanding for her son she was trying for.To make Dylan seem sympathetic she had to blame the majority on someone /something else and Eric was the most convenient and obvious target.I do think that she is so in denial that she truly believes that Eric is mostly to blame, he preyed on her baby in his depression and so on.I don't think she could live with it any other way.I can't blame her for believing that privately as it must be easier to live with but do fault her for putting it out in a book for all to read.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 9:50 am

I still can't quite come to terms with Dylan being the whole mastermind instead of the depressed follower of Eric. Even though the majority agrees with that point. Sure he is clinically ill but did he have all the guts to pick up a gun and start shooting people? Even though he stated it in his journals but he wanted to die more than anything else. Eric on the other hand was more viscous and sadistic than Dylan.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 10:11 am

Well Eric is more outspoken and tends to give "orders" but that doesn't make Dylan his follower    I don't see Eric that sadistic. He didn't show sadism in his actions only in nbk


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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 10:15 am

I agree with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I don't necessarily think that NBK was all Dylan's idea and that he was the "mastermind". I think it is somewhat of a comparison to the Jan incident in a way. One of them (imo prob Dylan) mentioned a somewhat hypothetical...what if we blow up the school scenario and that slowly morphed into them actually planning it.

I don't think it became "real" until they actually had the guns in Nov 98. I think prior to that...it wasn't that real to them. And then you have the bt where supposedly Eric is stating that it came quick and seemingly wasn't ready...and dylan writing about "having to do NDK" or whatever with Eric....
I just wonder sometimes if both of them were expecting the other to back out.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 11:21 am

@acquillina Why not? Of course he wasn't the whole mastermind, it was his fantasy, Eric helped and brought it to life. They made amateur bombs and didn't know how to use guns well. Him having the guts to pick up the gun and kill people that day is a the final straw that both of them had that separates them from other outcasts who were bullied. Eric was on medication remember that (i think at that point of time he was off of his meds for awhile I'm not sure), and yes, Dylan was indeed depressed I don't completely deny that. Eric wasn't more sadistic or vicious or anything like that....sure during 4/20, but they both were. Eric seemed in charge but as i've stated a couple of times it's because he was more vocal with his orders.

LizPuff wrote:
I don't necessarily think that NBK was all Dylan's idea and that he was the "mastermind". I think it is somewhat of a comparison to the Jan incident in a way. One of them (imo prob Dylan) mentioned a somewhat hypothetical...what if we blow up the school scenario and that slowly morphed into them actually planning it.

I don't think it became "real" until they actually had the guns in Nov 98. I think prior to that...it wasn't that real to them. And then you have the bt where supposedly Eric is stating that it came quick and seemingly wasn't ready...and dylan writing about "having to do NDK" or whatever with Eric....
I just wonder sometimes if both of them were expecting the other to back out.

I agree a hundred percent. We will all never know how the convo between both of them went down where they actually made their desire through their rage and insecurities happen, that's between the both of them. But they made it happen. and good question Liz, i wonder too if they expected one another to back out AND, if they wouldn't mind that they did?

Remember the whole discussion on here about how Eric tried to get caught, wouldn't mind if he did but Dylan might've felt a certain a way because he was set to die on 4/20 and prior to the day his upcoming death was liberating to him.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 4:36 pm

I'm with Aquillina on this one.

Even if Dylan came up with the initial idea (which I believe he did, though we've only got dates in journal entries to go off), if there was no Eric, there was no NBK.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 10:03 pm

I guess I wonder why there has to be a leader or mastermind?Both boys played their part and brought things to the table to make this happen, sure.But I don't think that either one would have done anything like this alone.This was the result of two extremely angry, depressed, hopeless individuals who had the same outlook on life and happened to be best friends.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2016 5:36 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
I guess I wonder why there has to be a leader or mastermind?Both boys played their part and brought things to the table to make this happen, sure.But I don't think that either one would have done anything like this alone.This was the result of two extremely angry, depressed, hopeless individuals who had the same outlook on life and happened to be best friends.

Forgive me as I can't recall if you've already answered this or not - but when you and your friend were planning your massacre, there must have been one of you who came out with it first? I can see why the planning of it could be done equally but someone must have said the words first even if you were both thinking it.
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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2016 9:15 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it was Dylan. it's so well established here.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2016 9:26 am

liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it was Dylan. it's so well established here.

I think Draw_it_White is speaking of the massacre that PaintitBlack had started planning with her friend.
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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2016 9:29 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Oh. meh, i wasn't there for that debacle.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2016 9:34 am

Lizpuff wrote:
liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it was Dylan. it's so well established here.

I think Draw_it_White is speaking of the massacre that PaintitBlack had started planning with her friend.

That's correct.
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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2016 10:39 am

jp2892 wrote:
Hi everyone. Before asking these questions I just want to say that I absolutely love this forum and all of the fascinating information in it. The following questions are not because I disagree with any of your opinions, but just because I'm a little behind on certain aspects of Columbine and I'm genuinely curious.

1. Why does everybody hate Cullen?  Was it solely because of how he portrayed Dylan as the sad follower and Eric as the psychopath? Were there other lies? And how does everybody know that he was wrong?

2. Following the first question, why is everyone here so sure that the "Dylan-depressive and Eric-psychopath" conclusion is wrong?  Is it solely based on the fact that Dylan seemed to come up with NBK first? Is there anything else to indicate that Eric wasn't psychopathic and Dylan was?

3. Why does Brooks Brown have a bad reputation among columbiners?  Everyone says he makes stuff up. I read somewhere that he admitted to lying about stuff. What has he lied about? When did he admit this? Why doesn't anybody trust him?

I don't mean for these questions to sound confrontational or like I'm trying to debate. I just simply don't know the answers to them and I'd like to hear from those of you who are more knowledgable than me.

To answer 1), I am not sure why people hate Dave Cullen. I don't want to speculate on their motives. But his book is factual. He lived in Littleton for a long time researching it. Had the cooperation of a lot of families, including the Rohrboughs, Sanders, and Ireland families. He had access to Kate Battan. His account of Eric and Dylan is based on the leading medical research (he did fifty interviews with Dwayne Fuselier), and he sticks very closely to the 11k in all of his narration of the incident. There was one error in the book--he claimed that Eric slept with Brenda Parker--but he has apparently since corrected that.

As far as 2) is concerned, all the doctors who looked into the case diagnosed Eric with psychopathy. Dr. Peter Langman, Dr. Mary Ellen O'Toole, Dr. Frank Ochs, and Dr. Dwayne Fusilier all diagnosed him as a psychopath. And Dr. Fuselier presented this diagnosis at the NVAVC conference in Leesburg, VA that the FBI hosted and the reviewers there endorsed it. The diagnosis was ultimately endorsed by Dr. Robert Hare, who invented the category of psychopath. You will find people on this board saying they don't "believe" Eric was a psychopath, but that counts for little against the weight of the entire medical establishment.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2016 10:41 am

Jenn wrote:
aquillina wrote:
Sue's book provides probably the most truthful and honest answers we can ever get. And for that I didn't bother reading Brown's or Cullen's books. If you haven't read Sue's book yet I highly recommend you do.
Sue's book is just Cullen's book 'Columbine' 2.0. She basically blames Eric saying that Dylan only followed Eric into doing it and that he only did it because he was depressed and mentally sick, yada, yada, yada. The same story that Cullen tried selling. Well, it was her son's idea. And evidence paints the picture of Eric actually being the one who followed Dylan.

Personally, I don't buy anything any of these books have to say. Their all bias in one way or another. You want the truth? Go through the actual evidence. The actual facts. Not read books that are loosely based on Columbine.

And btw, welcome to the forum.

I don't agree with you that "Sue basically blames Eric."

In her book, she says Dylan was "a mass murderer," that she is "the mother of a murderer," that "he committed an atrocity" and "participated in an atrocity," that she is the "mother of a murderer" who "raised a murderer," that he is a "sadistic killer" and a "vicious killer" and that she is the "mother of a killer."

That sounds like pretty definitive blame on Dylan right there to me. And if I had more time I could pull even more quotes.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2016 12:50 pm

Yeah, the murderer created by Eric Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2016 2:06 pm

Draw_It_White wrote:
when you and your friend were planning your massacre, there must have been one of you who came out with it first? I can see why the planning of it could be done equally but someone must have said the words first even if you were both thinking it.

I think it was Chris Morris who said that they all often joked about blowing up the school. I can see how in one conversation one of them might have brought it up again and the other said "what if we do it for real?" and that's where it all began. Who knows..

lasttrain wrote:
Jenn wrote:
aquillina wrote:
Sue's book provides probably the most truthful and honest answers we can ever get. And for that I didn't bother reading Brown's or Cullen's books. If you haven't read Sue's book yet I highly recommend you do.
Sue's book is just Cullen's book 'Columbine' 2.0. She basically blames Eric saying that Dylan only followed Eric into doing it and that he only did it because he was depressed and mentally sick, yada, yada, yada. The same story that Cullen tried selling. Well, it was her son's idea. And evidence paints the picture of Eric actually being the one who followed Dylan.

Personally, I don't buy anything any of these books have to say. Their all bias in one way or another. You want the truth? Go through the actual evidence. The actual facts. Not read books that are loosely based on Columbine.

And btw, welcome to the forum.

I don't agree with you that "Sue basically blames Eric."

In her book, she says Dylan was "a mass murderer," that she is "the mother of a murderer," that "he committed an atrocity" and "participated in an atrocity," that she is the "mother of a murderer" who "raised a murderer," that he is a "sadistic killer" and a "vicious killer" and that she is the "mother of a killer."

That sounds like pretty definitive blame on Dylan right there to me.  And if I had more time I could pull even more quotes.

She says that because she has to acknowledge the fact that her beloved son DID kill people which makes him a murderer and at the same time she knows she is expected to say that (can you imagine how much backlash she would get if she didn't mention that Dylan was a killer at all?) and there's no doubt she blames Eric for coming up and mastering the plan (which she has no proof it was initiated by him and not her son). She quotes an expert in which he says that the massacre would have never happened without Eric or that Eric came to school that day to kill and didn't care if he died (which is not true, to survive surely was not an option for Eric) and Dylan JUST wanted to die and didn't really care if others died as well. Not to mention when she quotes Dylan's journal where he talks about going NBK (long before the plan with Eric) with a GIRLFRIEND, in next sentence she basically says that's it's another proof he needed Eric's homicidal plan but ignores the fact that Dylan wrote about going on a killing spree so early on and yet it didn't include Eric at all.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2016 2:52 pm

"She says that because she has to acknowledge the fact that her beloved son DID kill people which makes him a murderer and at the same time she knows she is expected to say that (can you imagine how much backlash she would get if she didn't mention that Dylan was a killer at all?)" Amen! [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2016 8:51 pm

Draw_It_White wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
I guess I wonder why there has to be a leader or mastermind?Both boys played their part and brought things to the table to make this happen, sure.But I don't think that either one would have done anything like this alone.This was the result of two extremely angry, depressed, hopeless individuals who had the same outlook on life and happened to be best friends.

Forgive me as I can't recall if you've already answered this or not - but when you and your friend were planning your massacre, there must have been one of you who came out with it first? I can see why the planning of it could be done equally but someone must have said the words first even if you were both thinking it.


To be honest,I cannot remember which one actually said it first.I've actually tried to remember in the last year or so but I cannot.There was so much constant conversation about hating all those people and hating the school and the desire for revenge,it could have been either one of us easy.
I do remember that whichever one did say it first, both jumped on the idea right away at least in the beginning stages.Nobody pressured anybody in the beginning.The only pressuring there ever was if you could even call it that is when my friend kept asking if I could go through with killing myself with a gun.
I said I wasn't sure.And she said that I had better be sure because she wasn't going to jail.
That's the only dissension I can remember.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2016 9:00 pm

I actually asked my friend about this about a month ago and she said she couldn't remember who first suggested it either or who first said something.I am not sure why neither of us remembers.That was during a simply horrible period for both of us so maybe that has something to do with it.

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeFri Jun 03, 2016 3:32 am

What topic did we discuss this in? I need to re-read it as I can't actually remember the outcome either. Obviously you didn't go through with it. Were you caught by parents? Had a change of heart? I'm guessing the latter else you might well have still been in prison or a mental hospital if say a teacher caught you making plans.
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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeFri Jun 03, 2016 11:39 am

I am not paintitblack but I know it was discussed here
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PostSubject: Re: A few questions... As a noob in this forum.    A few questions... As a noob in this forum.  Icon_minitimeFri Jun 03, 2016 9:09 pm

Draw_It_White wrote:
What topic did we discuss this in? I need to re-read it as I can't actually remember the outcome either. Obviously you didn't go through with it. Were you caught by parents? Had a change of heart? I'm guessing the latter else you might well have still been in prison or a mental hospital if say a teacher caught you making plans.


The thread LizPuff linked discusses pretty much everything but basically we didn't go through with it because of practical reasons.
Neither one of us had a license at this time,we didn't have cars,the time window we would have had to steal the guns and get to the school without being discovered was very small. I couldn't take it anymore and dropped out at the end of the school year, then she quit at the beginning of the next school year,
the she tried to kill herself, then about a month later I tried to kill myself and we were in separate hospitals for a time.Looking back,I am very grateful all these things combined to keep us from going through with it,but because of my experience I feel I have a good understanding of how a lot of these tragedies happen.

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