Why Do E & D have Much More Support Than Other Shooters?

I want to preface this by saying I'm not judging anyone for their opinions, I am simply curious what people's perspectives are.

There's many on here who have no sympathy at all for them and are not shy in pointing it out.

But there's also many here who understand E & D, feel they were justified and will take up for them given an opportunity.

What I've noticed, though, is other school/mass shooters do not garner much more than a news segment and disappears into oblivion. There's no websites set up to discuss their particular crimes.

Nobody has condoned or rallied around Jared Loughner, James Holmes, Kip Kinkel, quite like E & D.

If you're a supporter or sympathizer I would LOVE to hear from you. I promise that I'm not going to condemn or ridicule anyone.

Well to add some discussion, I am not what I would consider a supporter.... But I feel like there is a lot of negative attention from people for These two considering how they look obviously. And then there are the people that read part of Cullen's book and relate to them that way.

I do have some sympathy for the boys that were. Not the boys they became. I mourn the loss for the families and the boys themselves. They both were somewhat normal children and I am sad they had to go thru so much just to turn out the way they did.

There was some artwork posted that was something like "who I was was not who I became" This resonates with me so much

I also should have mentioned Cho, Lanza and Eliot Rodger as well.

I think because we don't know in-depth other shooters' backstory than we do these boys. We literally almost have their life stories, I barely know the rest.

Also because first impressions; the boys are conventionally cute and awkward white guys.

My interest is in the whole event, from the planning for at least a year prior, to the day it happened. That no one noticed. And the seeming attempted coverup by Jeffco. Also, the myths that have pervaded to this day and that damn Cullen propaganda.

I stated in another post that I don't defend them when people spew misinformation, instead I try to educate them and point them in the right direction to research for themselves.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

I think because we don't know in-depth other shooters' backstory than we do these boys. We literally almost have their life stories, I barely know the rest.

Also because first impressions; the boys are conventionally cute and awkward white guys.

They feel to me that they were an enigma, wrapped in a riddle and shrouded in secrecy. Heard that quote somewhere and it seems fitting.

After Columbine we should take note that every mass shooter's case and backstory only gets covered for a certain period and then comes to a halt, we only know so much. This is where the media come into play because no other cases get covered and sensationalised like Columbine does. We get like a week max of coverage on today's shooting and then boom it's done.

Also the other shooter's reason for shooting also come into play. Columbine was the most raw and innocent one; high school issues/rage. It got eaten up by pop culture so quick.

It's sooo weird and unacceptable to say but I low-key feel disappointed that no current mass shooting get the same feel as Columbine did. Like, it just won't get covered or discussed the same. Even copycats tried to pull NBK 2.0 it's just like, forget it.

I've always said Columbine was the 9/11 of school shootings.

Same.

Columbine = micro, 9/11 = macro

To be blunt, I think the reason so many people and the media itself latched onto Columbine so heavily is because it's the first shooting of it's kind - nobody expected 2 attractive white kids from middle class suburbia to pull something like this.  If Eric and Dylan had been minorities living in the inner city, I don't believe they would have gotten nearly half the attention they did. Same if they had been ugly overweight outcasts. Or hillbillies in some rural high school.  Plus, instead of one good looking white kid from suburbia, there were 2 of them.....so double the shock. One kid would be dismissed as some weird, disgruntled loner.  But 2 kids makes people go "hmmmm" and wonder what had happened to make these kids do this.

Also, people really latched onto the trench coat mafia thing. Trench coats were popular among outcasts all across America. Even in my small high school we had a gang of weird kids who wore all black clothing and trench coats. But the thing about Eric and Dylan is that yes, they were at the bottom of the totem pole, but they really didn't have to be.  They weren't ugly or overly weird or dumb or too poor to dress decent and have a car.  They were at the bottom of the totem pole, but still they had friends. They came from good families with nice homes. They made good grades (or at least had the ability to do so). They just didn't seem like the type of kids who were destined to do something like this. That's why it shocked the nation and got so much coverage.

I think it's a combination of a lot of factors.

The thing that makes Columbine more interesting to me than any other shooting is the fact that there were two shooters. The dynamics between them are so incredibly interesting to me, and I just can't fathom one teenager asking another to murder people and them just actually carrying it out to this extent. The second thing is just the boys themselves. While they both had some serious issues (obviously), they were pretty darn normal. They were rational and sane, but they still did it, and that blows my mind.

Also, the time period played a huge part. Nowadays we're so desensitized to mass shootings and similar tragedies; we see them on the news almost daily. But as others have mentioned, this was really the first attack of its kind and it was a huge wake up call to the world. There had never been live coverage of a situation like this and the media had an absolute field day. Between that and the sheer amount of information that became available about the shooters and their lives, they practically became household names. The infamy of Columbine is interesting in itself.

pbc wrote:

Nowadays we're so desensitized to mass shootings and similar tragedies; we see them on the news almost daily. But as others have mentioned, this was really the first attack of its kind and it was a huge wake up call to the world. There had never been live coverage of a situation like this and the media had an absolute field day.

There will never be another school shooting that compares to Columbine. It was the first time something like that had happened, especially to some predominately white small town school. People would not look at the faces of Eric and Dylan and think they were capable of committing murder. It was a shock to not only America, but the rest of the world. I doubt anything could compare. Not even the Orlando shooting fazed me.

explicit wrote:

pbc wrote:

Nowadays we're so desensitized to mass shootings and similar tragedies; we see them on the news almost daily. But as others have mentioned, this was really the first attack of its kind and it was a huge wake up call to the world. There had never been live coverage of a situation like this and the media had an absolute field day.  

There will never be another school shooting that compares to Columbine. It was the first time something like that had happened, especially to some predominately white small town school. People would not look at the faces of Eric and Dylan and think they were capable of committing murder. It was a shock to not only America, but the rest of the world. I doubt anything could compare. Not even the Orlando shooting fazed me.

It's sad to say but I agree with you. We are desensitized and it happens so much now it's like meh, ok. Very rarely do mass shootings make the news for more than a day or so.

pbc wrote:

I think it's a combination of a lot of factors.

The thing that makes Columbine more interesting to me than any other shooting is the fact that there were two shooters. The dynamics between them are so incredibly interesting to me, and I just can't fathom one teenager asking another to murder people and them just actually carrying it out to this extent. The second thing is just the boys themselves. While they both had some serious issues (obviously), they were pretty darn normal. They were rational and sane, but they still did it, and that blows my mind.

Also, the time period played a huge part. Nowadays we're so desensitized to mass shootings and similar tragedies; we see them on the news almost daily. But as others have mentioned, this was really the first attack of its kind and it was a huge wake up call to the world. There had never been live coverage of a situation like this and the media had an absolute field day. Between that and the sheer amount of information that became available about the shooters and their lives, they practically became household names. The infamy of Columbine is interesting in itself.

All of this and pretty much everything everyone else has said. I had just gotten out of school when the media coverage began that day (east coast so a few hours ahead of colorado), and I remember when they first showed pics of the shooters I literally said out loud something along the lines of "What?? THESE guys did it??? They look like anybody!!!"

Where I lived at the time - and it was probably like this everywhere, people expected violent behavior from the angry kids from broken homes, kids involved with gangs or the freaky/punk kids who had reputations for making threats of violence. Not these clean cut anybodies.

And I know I'm basically going to end up repeating what others have said. But he media pics they used of E&D made them look normal, harmless, like Anyone. Their houses were nice, They came from families that had both parents that gave a shit about them. They lived in an upper class suburb of a major city in one of the most beautiful states in the country. They had opportunities so many others don't have. And they chose to murder innocent people and threw their lives away. And they were just Kids. All of these more recent shooters have been adults (I know Eric was 18 at the time but he literally just turned 18 weeks before). People were shocked to learn about the amount of planning, knowledge of weapons and level of hatred held by these two Kids in high school.

And it really was a more innocent time. To me columbine was to 1999 What the Manson murders were to 1969. Even though the 90s were a kinda dark decade, it was still like the death of innocence.

Kiwik wrote:

All of this and pretty much everything everyone else has said. I had just gotten out of school when the media coverage began that day (east coast so a few hours ahead of colorado), and I remember when they first showed pics of the shooters I literally said out loud something along the lines of "What?? THESE guys did it??? They look like anybody!!!"

Where I lived at the time - and it was probably like this everywhere, people expected violent behavior from the angry kids from broken homes, kids involved with gangs or the freaky/punk kids who had reputations for making threats of violence. Not these clean cut anybodies.

And I know I'm basically going to end up repeating what others have said. But he media pics they used of E&D made them look normal, harmless, like Anyone. Their houses were nice, They came from families that had both parents that gave a shit about them. They lived in an upper class suburb of a major city in one of the most beautiful states in the country. They had opportunities so many others don't have. And they chose to murder innocent people and threw their lives away. And they were just Kids. All of these more recent shooters have been adults (I know Eric was 18 at the time but he literally just turned 18 weeks before). People were shocked to learn about the amount of planning, knowledge of weapons and level of hatred held by these two Kids in high school.

And it really was a more innocent time. To me columbine was to 1999 What the Manson murders were to 1969. Even though the 90s were a kinda dark decade, it was still like the death of innocence.

Excellent Kiwik! Definitely a factor very well put!

Its because there were 2 shooters. Think of the chances of moving around from state to state, finally finding a school, and then meeting a kid who would murder kids with you. Usually its always a lone gunman, but for two highschoolers to plan something like NBK out for over a year, without blabbing to anyone or getting caught, really is a rarity. Also it was the shooting that changed everything so to speak. Tighter security at schools, metal detectors, people getting expelled for joking around saying "I'll kill you" etc. Columbine really changed American school systems. Throw in the fact that it happened in a upper middle class area too, which at the time was shocking. It wasn't just one thing IMO, it was a bunch of things thrown in the pot and mixed together.

Another thing that blows my mind (and this probably isn't the right thread to mention it) is that E&D went into the massacre completely sober. I remember reading that even James Holmes of the Aurora theater shooting took valium in advance to kinda dull his feelings. Not to reference the Manson murders again but even they were all on drugs when they committed the crimes. I've read several other cases of people taking *something* before committing murder. But It takes a special kinda mindset for 2 kids who were never directly exposed to the level of violence they were about to commit, to go through with it completely sober and aware like E&D did.

Kiwik wrote:

Another thing that blows my mind (and this probably isn't the right thread to mention it) is that E&D went into the massacre completely sober.  I remember reading that even James Holmes of the Aurora theater shooting took valium in advance to kinda dull his feelings. Not to reference the Manson murders again but even they were all on drugs when they committed the crimes. I've read several other cases of people taking *something* before committing murder. But It takes a special kinda mindset for 2 kids who were never directly exposed to the level of violence they were about to commit, to go through with it completely sober and aware like E&D did.

Man, taking a downer like Xanax or Valium would completely kill off any adrenaline I had. I guess different strokes for different folks.

Kiwik wrote:

Another thing that blows my mind (and this probably isn't the right thread to mention it) is that E&D went into the massacre completely sober.  I remember reading that even James Holmes of the Aurora theater shooting took valium in advance to kinda dull his feelings. Not to reference the Manson murders again but even they were all on drugs when they committed the crimes. I've read several other cases of people taking *something* before committing murder. But It takes a special kinda mindset for 2 kids who were never directly exposed to the level of violence they were about to commit, to go through with it completely sober and aware like E&D did.

Yes! It blows my mind that two kids who had never been exposed to real life violence just walked into the school and started murdering kids directly. It would have been much easier for them if the bombs had gone off and they shot at kids running out of the school.  But to kill at close range the way they did... With a smile on their faces? That's mind blowing for me.  Patti Neilson said Eric smiled and then shot at her....and they both taunted victims.   That's cold.  And Dylan laughing and hollering the whole time.... Those two seemed to really enjoy themselves at first..

Something that stands out to me is how childlike they both were.  Look at the silly videos they made like Radioactive clothing. Look at how they talked about coming back to haunt people in the BT.  They act like two little boys playing a game. Just goes to show how truly immature they really were.

I can't speak for anyone else but I've been a Columbiner since I was very young.E &D were the first people who were anywhere near my age who expressed the same rage and alienation I was feeling.
People can say their example only made me angrier but I don't think that's true.It was already there.
They became a huge comfort to me over the years.
I related to them very deeply on many levels and felt like I knew and understood where they were coming from.Even though I no longer like, or agree with what they did at all, I still feel like they are kindred spirits in a sense.I think I will always be a Columbiner.

Freezingmoon wrote:

Kiwik wrote:

Another thing that blows my mind (and this probably isn't the right thread to mention it) is that E&D went into the massacre completely sober.  I remember reading that even James Holmes of the Aurora theater shooting took valium in advance to kinda dull his feelings. Not to reference the Manson murders again but even they were all on drugs when they committed the crimes. I've read several other cases of people taking *something* before committing murder. But It takes a special kinda mindset for 2 kids who were never directly exposed to the level of violence they were about to commit, to go through with it completely sober and aware like E&D did.

Yes! It blows my mind that two kids who had never been exposed to real life violence just walked into the school and started murdering kids directly. It would have been much easier for them if the bombs had gone off and they shot at kids running out of the school.  But to kill at close range the way they did... With a smile on their faces? That's mind blowing for me.  Patti Neilson said Eric smiled and then shot at her....and they both taunted victims.   That's cold.  And Dylan laughing and hollering the whole time.... Those two seemed to really enjoy themselves at first..

Something that stands out to me is how childlike they both were.  Look at the silly videos they made like Radioactive clothing. Look at how they talked about coming back to haunt people in the BT.  They act like two little boys playing a game. Just goes to show how truly immature they really were.

I think columbine was such a shocking, horrific act of violence that everyone forgets how Young the shooters were. I agree with you about them being childlike, to me it was right down to their suicide photo. My first impression of seeing the photo was that it reminded me of two little boys who found their parents' guns and accidentally kill themselves. Especially Eric, for some reason the way he was positioned and everything. Just reminded me of a little boy who thought it would be fun and "grown up" to play with his dad's guns and ends up accidentally shooting himself. I don't know why I look at it that way.

Their suicide photo was actually the first crime scene photo I ever looked at. And since then I've had a pretty big interest in crime scene photos.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I have read at least two different accounts so far on here about what Patti said happened about the smiling. With that, I don't think I can hold anything Patti says about that day liable except for her 911 call. Wasn't she the one who claimed she heard the boys count 123 Go before killing themselves which she then recanted cause we knew it was bullshit? I'm tired of seeing anything Patti "claims" except for her call.

I love all of the comments that have been shared in this thread but looking back at the question does it actually answer why Eric and Dylan get more support than other shooters?  Support like, why are they so popular perhaps? I think majority share the sentiment they get support cause they're so young, unique and relatable and it's a mindblowing raw case.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I have read at least two different accounts so far on here about what Patti said happened about the smiling. With that, I don't think I can hold anything Patti says about that day liable except for her 911 call. Wasn't she the one who claimed she heard the boys count 123 Go before killing themselves which she then recanted cause we knew it was bullshit? I'm tired of seeing anything Patti "claims" except for her call.

Well RMN reported her as saying that but she was "never" interviewed for the paper. So she says she never told them that and was never interviewed by them but its all he said she said type of deal. I do tend to believe her though

When you get down to it, this was kids killing kids. And that is all sorts of disturbing, for all generations: teachers, parents, children.. I was still in grade school when this happened and it changed everything.
I know Cho was still a student and Lanza was only 20 but they don't really qualify as 'kidß' (incredibly sad considering both had a greater death count than E&D. Also both were previously diagnosed with mental illnesses, that's important.)
Is it bad that besides Hołmes, Cho, and Lànza I have no idea who those other people are?

Just as a side note, it's fascinating that we call them E&D or Eric and Dylan, instead of Harris and Klebold. We've humanize them, whereas the others are anomalies, monsters.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] why do you support the boys more than other mass shooters though?

Just because I know about them/their crime

One thing I thought of. And I am not sure if I will be able to convey the thoughts in my head into words but, When Columbine happened I was 11. I don't remember seeing it on the news as it happened. I don't remember people talking about it or anything.

When Cho, Lanza, and Rodger committed their crimes I was older. I followed them on TV, I had discussions with people. It was more relatable to where I was at that point in my life age wise.

It makes it seem like Columbine was so much longer ago than it was. Watching Eric in Columbine video and thinking about what it would look like if it happened today....no one was glued to a smart phone, people were talking to each other, the grainy-ness of the video...it seems like another world. I find that interesting.

If Columbine had happened more recently I don't know that I would be as interested....I mean there is the whole Jeffco blunder thing which is fascinating too. I am torn

Lizpuff wrote:

One thing I thought of. And I am not sure if I will be able to convey the thoughts in my head into words but, When Columbine happened I was 11. I don't remember seeing it on the news as it happened. I don't remember people talking about it or anything.

When Cho, Lanza, and Rodger committed their crimes I was older. I followed them on TV, I had discussions with people. It was more relatable to where I was at that point in my life age wise.

It makes it seem like Columbine was so much longer ago than it was. Watching Eric in Columbine video and thinking about what it would look like if it happened today....no one was glued to a smart phone, people were talking to each other, the grainy-ness of the video...it seems like another world. I find that interesting.

If Columbine had happened more recently I don't know that I would be as interested....I mean there is the whole Jeffco blunder thing which is fascinating too. I am torn

Yeah. And the other thing that ties with the question as to why they get more support is, there were a couple of school shootings that had happened before Columbine and those didn't even get the type of sensational coverage that Columbine did so, that explains so much.

NotYourRobot wrote:

Just as a side note, it's fascinating that we call them E&D or Eric and Dylan, instead of Harris and Klebold. We've humanize them, whereas the others are anomalies, monsters.

I suppose it's because they were so young. That coupled with (as you mentioned) the fact that we know enough about their lives to find ways to sympathise.

never thought about the fact that I do call them Eric and Dylan when I talk about other school shootings in my true crime message boards or debating with friends about various topics and Columbine is mentioned.

I tend to have an anger towards other shooters like from Sandy Hook and make blanket statements about a monster killing toddlers.. yet I have this huge mushy spot in my heart for Columbine, what can we learn from it, how everything came to be, what the people who died could have become.

I agree with a lot above and I agree with the sentiments. I remember hearing the news and wanting to know what these "former students/skin heads/ ski masked" jerks looked like and they were cute boys (17 year old me talking) I've also been fascinated by their friendship. I find it hard sometimes to hammer down a time for coffee with a friend. They planned this for at least a year.

Something else popped into my head too. Aurora and Sandy Hook for example happened when I was an adult. I'm looking at it from a different POV.

Columbine happened when I was 17, a senior, I went to a similar school, I had a lot of anger festering. I feel stuck at that age sometimes when I think about it. It wasn't an adult killing people and children. They were teenagers, like me. E&D had friends who too had to endure a lot of pain too by being associated with them in a friendly way. Now I'm rambling, apologies!