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 Dylan Klebold's suicide

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PostSubject: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeFri Aug 26, 2016 11:35 pm

Apparently, when Dylan Klebold commit suicide, he also was drowning in his own blood. People said this was caused by the way that he shot himself. A similar thing happened to Pekka Eric Auvinen, as he tried to shoot himself in the temple (like Dylan) but only died when they brought him to hospital. What are your thoughts?


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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Aug 27, 2016 7:15 am

Yeah, I have read that many people who commit suicide do this in a failed way: shooting oneself in the temple does not necessarily lead to immediate death, as it might leave the brainstem and cerebellum - that are responsible for the most important physiological functions - intact.

Eric did it in a more effective way, shooting himself in the mouth, so that he died at once.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Aug 27, 2016 8:36 am

pretty sure the lovely [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] went in detail about this in this thread [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I believe I have read another thread a long time ago on this forum discussing the same thing if you would like to peruse. But I think that thread I gave is detailed enough.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Aug 27, 2016 9:08 am

Awww, thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Aug 27, 2016 10:40 am

My thoughts are that drowning in his own blood is probably what caused Dylan to finally die. I'm not saying that shooting himself in the temple wouldn't have killed him anyway, but he did not die instantly after shooting himself, like Eric did. Dylan was breathing in blood which most likely caused him to drown.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Aug 27, 2016 11:28 am

I wonder if they ever discussed between themselves how they wanted to shoot themselves? Probably not. But if they did I wonder if Dylan thought to take some pointers from Eric but he still decided to do the way he desired.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Aug 27, 2016 12:54 pm

I have wondered when Dylan saw the damage done to Eric's head and his immediate death did that change how Dylan committed suicide. Did Dylan have an idea how he was going to kill himself when the time arrived,or did he change the way he killed himself because of him seeing Eric's body after he killed himself? Like so many Columbine questions, we will never know the answer.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Aug 27, 2016 12:59 pm

spinvault wrote:
I have wondered when Dylan saw the damage done to Eric's head and his immediate death did that change how Dylan committed suicide. Did Dylan have an idea how he was going to kill himself when the time arrived,or did he change the way he killed himself because of him seeing Eric's body after he killed himself? Like so many Columbine questions, we will never know the answer.

I absolutely wish I knew this too. Like he was willing to suffer because he saw the damage it did to Eric. That's why I wonder if they both ever discussed how they wanted to off themselves, so casually like picking an outfit to wear.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Aug 27, 2016 2:44 pm

I've always thought that Dyaln's suicide was due to ignorance more than anything. Most suicidal people don't realize that the lower part of the brain controls the automatic organ functions. The majority of folks think a gun shot to the head is fatal because of how its portrayed in movies. Instant death only comes when the brain stem or reptilian parts of the brain are destroyed. Adam Lanza is said to have pointed his pistol to the back of his head for that very reason. Any other angle risks a prolonged and painful death, and a shot to the head doesn't mean instant loss of consciousness either.

Keep in mind that Dylan made a ritual out of his suicide. He took off his jewelry and put them in a pile before lighting one last cocktail. Maybe his teenage mentality wanted his death to look "cool"? Maybe he wanted that feeling of holding a gun to his head before pulling the trigger? This is the kid who went to the trouble of coordinating what he was gonna wear on NBK after all. Hell maybe Dyaln shot himself knowing it wouldn't kill him instantly? Maybe he wanted to suffer a little before death?

For some reason I just have a hard time imagining that Erics death spooked Dylan. They'd spent the past hour shooting people, so he knew by then what a gunshot would do. Plus Dylan was in on NBK solely to die. He didnt care about open caskets or that his parents would want an open casket. IMO its just a case of Dylan going out the way he wanted, even if it wasnt the most effective method.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Aug 27, 2016 5:35 pm

I'm sure seeing Eric dead gave him the courage to pull the trigger on himself. I doubt he'd have had guts to do it first.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeMon Aug 29, 2016 8:21 am

Nirvana92 wrote:
I've always thought that Dyaln's suicide was due to ignorance more than anything. Most suicidal people don't realize that the lower part of the brain controls the automatic organ functions. The majority of folks think a gun shot to the head is fatal because of how its portrayed in movies. Instant death only comes when the brain stem or reptilian parts of the brain are destroyed. Adam Lanza is said to have pointed his pistol to the back of his head for that very reason. Any other angle risks a prolonged and painful death, and a shot to the head doesn't mean instant loss of consciousness either.

Keep in mind that Dylan made a ritual out of his suicide. He took off his jewelry and put them in a pile before lighting one last cocktail. Maybe his teenage mentality wanted his death to look "cool"? Maybe he wanted that feeling of holding a gun to his head before pulling the trigger? This is the kid who went to the trouble of coordinating what he was gonna wear on NBK after all. Hell maybe Dyaln shot himself knowing it wouldn't kill him instantly? Maybe he wanted to suffer a little before death?

For some reason I just have a hard time imagining that Erics death spooked Dylan. They'd spent the past hour shooting people, so he knew by then what a gunshot would do. Plus Dylan was in on NBK solely to die. He didnt care about open caskets or that his parents would want an open casket. IMO its just a case of Dylan going out the way he wanted, even if it wasnt the most effective method.

I agree with the first part, i think he just was ignorant and thought that the bullet to the temple would kill him.
However it has been proven that the police removed his jewelry not Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeMon Dec 05, 2016 6:08 am

@Lizpuff My thoughts? After working every kind of death you can dream of as an Assistant Medical Examiner, aside from being burned alive, the sight of a 12 gauge shotgun wound to the head is gruesome. We can all see some of the damage to Eric's head, but I assure you what we didn't see was not for the feint of heart.

I don't know that Eric had a full understanding of what his suicide would do to his head, so I feel like he went ahead with it, neither knowing or caring the outcome. (I do have to say, his poor parents having to see the horror is heartbreaking, as it always is. It's a possibility they did not see him and I pray that is the case).

In my opinion, I think Dylan saw the devastation of Eric's 12 gauge suicide and decided he didn't want to go out that way. Of course, this is my speculation.

As an aside, I don't know how many have seen the full color autopsy photo of JFK, but the hole in his head looks like a Skittle compared to some shotgun blasts to the head.

@shades - were you at one point ultraviolent? I have certainly missed you and your wonderful thoughts, if this is you.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeMon Dec 05, 2016 11:54 am

How long after Eric shot himself did Dylan go through with it?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeMon Dec 05, 2016 11:56 am

Tomb wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - were you at one point ultraviolent? I have certainly missed you and your wonderful thoughts, if this is you.
Yes I was and I miss you toooo!!!!

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeMon Dec 05, 2016 12:04 pm

@shades Thank you so much and I have missed you too! You rock!
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeMon Dec 05, 2016 12:08 pm

shades wrote:
Tomb wrote:
@shades - were you at one point ultraviolent? I have certainly missed you and your wonderful thoughts, if this is you.
Yes I was and I miss you toooo!!!!

It was very quick, but I don't have the exact time between suicides.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeTue Dec 06, 2016 9:40 am

NotYourRobot wrote:
How long after Eric shot himself did Dylan go through with it?
Well I think they stopped shooting at the cops at 12:05 PM. At 12:08 PM a sprinkler turned on inside the Library because of a pipe bomb or Molotov that exploded on top of table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Eric's brain matter was found underneath of this exploded bomb. So either Eric lit this bomb and then sat down and killed himself before it exploded or Dylan did it either while Eric was committing suicide or shortly after. Eric definitely died before 12:08 PM because it's the only way his brain matter could be underneath this bomb that the sprinkles turned on at 12:08 PM to put out.

I'd imagine Dylan was seconds to a few minutes after. By the time the cops found their bodies, both of the boys had large blood pools and dried blood on their faces. So they had been dead for awhile at that point. If I had to guess, I'd say Eric killed himself at 12:07 PM and Dylan probably right after at 12:08 PM.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeTue Dec 06, 2016 10:07 am

Yeah, we know Eric committed suicide first for sure based on the body's positions and brain matter location.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeTue Dec 06, 2016 9:16 pm

I also hope that his parents didn't see him and I doubt they did.
They didn't need them to identify him and outside of that there was no reason to see him in such a state.It would have only added to their already immense pain. It was better for them to remember him as the vibrant, healthy,young boy he was.




Tomb wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] My thoughts? After working every kind of death you can dream of as an Assistant Medical Examiner, aside from being burned alive, the sight of a 12 gauge shotgun wound to the head is gruesome. We can all see some of the damage to Eric's head, but I assure you what we didn't see was not for the feint of heart.

I don't know that Eric had a full understanding of what his suicide would do to his head, so I feel like he went ahead with it, neither knowing or caring the outcome. (I do have to say, his poor parents having to see the horror is heartbreaking, as it always is. It's a possibility they did not see him and I pray that is the case).

In my opinion, I think Dylan saw the devastation of Eric's 12 gauge suicide and decided he didn't want to go out that way. Of course, this is my speculation.

As an aside, I don't know how many have seen the full color autopsy photo of JFK, but the hole in his head looks like a Skittle compared to some shotgun blasts to the head.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - were you at one point ultraviolent? I have certainly missed you and your wonderful thoughts, if this is you.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeTue Dec 06, 2016 9:27 pm

@PaintItBlack, it is very surprising how many bereaved, grieving family members with arrive at the morgue and insist on seeing their loved ones. Natural death is not AS bad as say suicide, gunshots to the head, being beaten to death, burned alive, etc.

We are trained, and mostly succeed, in dissuading family members from viewing the remains, in particular if the death was heinous and/or violent. But, there are those that are insistent and it is heartbreaking to observe their reactions.

I say all that to say that I don't believe the Harrises viewed his remains at all, including inside the casket if he was buried.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeTue Dec 06, 2016 9:57 pm

Tomb wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], it is very surprising how many bereaved, grieving family members with arrive at the morgue and insist on seeing their loved ones. Natural death is not AS bad as say suicide, gunshots to the head, being beaten to death, burned alive, etc.

We are trained, and mostly succeed, in dissuading family members from viewing the remains, in particular if the death was heinous and/or violent. But, there are those that are insistent and it is heartbreaking to observe their reactions.

I say all that to say that I don't believe the Harrises viewed his remains at all, including inside the casket if he was buried.
I have heard that there are people who feel they need that for closure no matter how much pain it adds.

I can only sincerely hope his parents didn't see him.
If Eric had been my son I couldn't have stood to have seen him like that and that be my last memory of him on this Earth, but I would understand if someone felt that's what they had to do.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeTue Dec 06, 2016 10:35 pm

It is awful, and there are times when the family leaves, I need a "bathroom break" just to cry for their pain and suffering. Even though this is my job, I would not be able to see my loved ones in that manner, nor would I want them to see me.

I hope neither Eric's or Dylan's families have seen the suicide photos online. Some things, you can't unsee and that photo would ensure further suffering.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeWed Dec 07, 2016 1:35 am

As far as I know, Sue Klebold is well aware of that 'infamous' library photo, it's mentioned in her book. So yes. she pretty much saw what she needn't to see.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeWed Dec 07, 2016 7:52 am

Amarantha wrote:
As far as I know, Sue Klebold is well aware of that 'infamous' library photo, it's mentioned in her book. So yes. she pretty much saw what she needn't to see.

Dylan, after being prepared by the funeral home, probably looked ok. He had a smaller caliber bullet wound and funeral homes are truly miracle workers in the things they can do to make corpses presentable. He had an open casket, and I believe they had strategically arranged beanie babies around the wound to his head in an effort to hide it. Correct me if I'm wrong. I've always found the whole beanie baby thing weird.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeWed Dec 07, 2016 11:42 am

I think that D killed himself seconds after E had commited a suicide. It's hard to imagine that D didn't panic while seeing his massively wounded friend and took his time to spend few minutes with E's body. IMHO D would choose other place in library to end his life.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeWed Dec 07, 2016 12:19 pm

Whether Dylan's reaction was sadness, fear, trembling, we will NEVER KNOW. but YES, he died after Eric, and infront of him, and most likely in a matter of seconds. I don't know why people still ponder as to how frightened he may be or why he didn't die somewhere else. There isn't much to think about. His endgame was suicide regardless and his best friend died before him so, he probably needed to have that happen to finally kill himself.

We don't even know if they discussed amongst themselves if they should commit suicide at the same time or not. These are questions which will never be answered but I would like to know though. Why? Because I wanna know if Eric forgot about their pact and offed himself first or it was just an impromptu thing and Eric decided to go fast.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeWed Dec 07, 2016 8:28 pm

Amarantha wrote:
As far as I know, Sue Klebold is well aware of that 'infamous' library photo, it's mentioned in her book. So yes. she pretty much saw what she needn't to see.

I think that's just the worst. I feel so bad for Sue. She really didn't need to see that photo. I mean, he had an open casket funeral so he either looked well enough for it or the funeral workers cleaned him up enough. Seeing those photos would be truly devastating to me because you know longer have that image of your son at peace like you did at the funeral. You now know the real horror behind it.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeWed Dec 07, 2016 10:27 pm

She was also given walk through in the library to see the result of the carnage including the spot he died right? **So, she's had a gist in person.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeWed Dec 07, 2016 10:50 pm

I was sure I read in an article somewhere a while back that Eric's dad went to identify his body, but I can't place which one it was... I think it was also mentioned in this article that Eric's dad thought his interest in explosives seemed normal for someone who was planning on joining the military.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeThu Dec 08, 2016 2:25 am

Jenn wrote:
NotYourRobot wrote:
How long after Eric shot himself did Dylan go through with it?
Well I think they stopped shooting at the cops at 12:05 PM. At 12:08 PM a sprinkler turned on inside the Library because of a pipe bomb or Molotov that exploded on top of table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Eric's brain matter was found underneath of this exploded bomb. So either Eric lit this bomb and then sat down and killed himself before it exploded or Dylan did it either while Eric was committing suicide or shortly after. Eric definitely died before 12:08 PM because it's the only way his brain matter could be underneath this bomb that the sprinkles turned on at 12:08 PM to put out.

I'd imagine Dylan was seconds to a few minutes after. By the time the cops found their bodies, both of the boys had large blood pools and dried blood on their faces. So they had been dead for awhile at that point. If I had to guess, I'd say Eric killed himself at 12:07 PM and Dylan probably right after at 12:08 PM.

The smoke alarm was activated but the sprinklers never came on in the Library.


shades wrote:
She was also given walk through in the library to see the result of the carnage including the spot he died right? So, she's had a gist person.

Some people were brought back into the school around May/June 1999.

Pages 016089-016266 - Crime Scene Log

The Klebold's were there on June 3 1999 for just over an hour. Did not see anything about the Harris family though.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeThu Dec 08, 2016 4:47 am

Wow [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] thanks for that report it's really informative. How are the people chosen to be part of the walk through of the crime scene???

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Feb 17, 2018 9:01 pm

Dylan was very ignorant in killing himself. Eric was smart and blew his head off through his mouth with a shotgun, which would be instant death. But Dylan put it up to his left temple. That wouldn't have killed him instantly. People reported hearing gurgling from the area where they committed suicide. Which suggests Dylan was choking on his own blood, and was involuntary moving, like moving around his arms, legs, scratching the ground, etc. His last moments were spent in horrible pain. He did not off himself well, like Eric.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Feb 17, 2018 9:19 pm

ChaotixBoy wrote:
Dylan was very ignorant in killing himself. Eric was smart and blew his head off through his mouth with a shotgun, which would be instant death. But Dylan put it up to his left temple. That wouldn't have killed him instantly. People reported hearing gurgling from the area where they committed suicide. Which suggests Dylan was choking on his own blood, and was involuntary moving, like moving around his arms, legs, scratching the ground, etc. His last moments were spent in horrible pain. He did not off himself well, like Eric.
maybe Eric's death was instant, but very horrible. At least Dylan gave his parent a chance to see his face at the last time


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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Feb 17, 2018 9:23 pm

Jea wrote:
ChaotixBoy wrote:
Dylan was very ignorant in killing himself. Eric was smart and blew his head off through his mouth with a shotgun, which would be instant death. But Dylan put it up to his left temple. That wouldn't have killed him instantly. People reported hearing gurgling from the area where they committed suicide. Which suggests Dylan was choking on his own blood, and was involuntary moving, like moving around his arms, legs, scratching the ground, etc. His last moments were spent in horrible pain. He did not off himself well, like Eric.
maybe Eric's death was instant, but very horrible. At least Dylan gave his parent a chance to see his face last the time.

I guess. I heard when the people who were cleaning the school, when they picked up Eric, most of his brain matter fell out of his head. So yeah, he was probably unrecognizable.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeMon Feb 19, 2018 5:29 am

ChaotixBoy wrote:
Jea wrote:
ChaotixBoy wrote:
Dylan was very ignorant in killing himself. Eric was smart and blew his head off through his mouth with a shotgun, which would be instant death. But Dylan put it up to his left temple. That wouldn't have killed him instantly. People reported hearing gurgling from the area where they committed suicide. Which suggests Dylan was choking on his own blood, and was involuntary moving, like moving around his arms, legs, scratching the ground, etc. His last moments were spent in horrible pain. He did not off himself well, like Eric.
maybe Eric's death was instant, but very horrible. At least Dylan gave his parent a chance to see his face last the time.

I guess. I heard when the people who were cleaning the school, when they picked up Eric, most of his brain matter fell out of his head. So yeah, he was probably unrecognizable.

Most of his brain was already out of his head splattered all over the ceiling and bookshelves. Somewhere on this forum is an old post by some dude that claimed he was on the scene in the library some months after the massacre (his mom was hidden in studio part of library and the visit was advised by their psychiatrist if I recall correctly). I remember that he wrote that the ceiling was literally covered by it. Even when you read autopsy report I do believe that only part that was preserved out of the whole brain was part of frontal lobe pretty much everything else was shredded into little pieces, so if anything had fallen out it was probably this and maybe some small parts of brain matter and skull. And if I remember correctly from autopsy reports the blast have even shattered his orbitals and parts of his nose (although his nose might have been damaged only from the blowback when he shot Cassie). So as you say he was probably unrecognizable as besides missing the whole top of his head even his face was damaged. Messy...

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeFri Sep 14, 2018 5:01 pm

shades wrote:
Whether Dylan's reaction was sadness, fear, trembling, we will NEVER KNOW. but YES, he died after Eric, and infront of him, and most likely in a matter of seconds. I don't know why people still ponder as to how frightened he may be or why he didn't die somewhere else. There isn't much to think about. His endgame was suicide regardless and his best friend died before him so, he probably needed to have that happen to finally kill himself.

We don't even know if they discussed amongst themselves if they should commit suicide at the same time or not. These are questions which will never be answered but I would like to know though. Why? Because I wanna know if Eric forgot about their pact and offed himself first or it was just an impromptu thing and Eric decided to go fast.

True, but sorry for asking; the swat moved his body (for dealing with possible explosives).Is it clear how his initial position was towards Eric?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeFri Sep 14, 2018 5:26 pm

Imagine if Dylan didn't want to become an hero after seeing what happened to Eric? He could have pretended to be a trapped victim and try to get away with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Sep 15, 2018 12:26 am

Ziamber II wrote:
Imagine if Dylan didn't want to become an hero after seeing what happened to Eric?  He could have pretended to be a trapped victim and try to get away with it.

No way that'd work out, there were witnesses who could identify him.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Sep 15, 2018 4:56 am

Patrick Ireland said that when he awoke from passing out in the library, he heard what sounded like coughing coming from the east side of the library. He thinks it was a male coughing because the voice sounded deeper. He said that at some point the coughing stopped and he didn't hear it again after that.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Sep 15, 2018 7:48 am

QuestionMark wrote:
Ziamber II wrote:
Imagine if Dylan didn't want to become an hero after seeing what happened to Eric?  He could have pretended to be a trapped victim and try to get away with it.

No way that'd work out, there were witnesses who could identify him.


Agreed. Neither one could have gotten away with it even if they had tried. There was video of both with weapons, and witnesses that saw them killing others.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeFri Dec 13, 2019 12:45 am

I just wanted to add something to this thread even though it's a bit old.

Dylan didn't take off his jewelry and put it in a pile before he killed himself.

Members of the bomb squad, including Mike Guerra, removed the items from his body before rolling him over to access his cargo pocket to check for more bombs.

You can see the reference on page [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] of the 11k report under Mike Guerra's testimony stating they removed personal articles from Klebold before rolling him over and removing both suspects' bodies.

For further verification, if Dylan had taken off his jewelry and placed it in a pile before he died, that pile and/or individual items would be noted in the crime scene sketches as evidence on the floor. It was not. That combined with Guerra's notes about removing personal articles from Dylan's body before turning him over to check his pocket makes it clear that the pile was created by the investigator who removed the items from Dylan's body.

This has bothered me for some time, not sure where the rumor began, but it's not true. I guess it sounds cool and interesting to think that Dylan was trying to preserve his jewelry or something, but he wasn't. He died with it on his body.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Dec 14, 2019 12:17 am

EthanEmerson wrote:
I just wanted to add something to this thread even though it's a bit old.

Dylan didn't take off his jewelry and put it in a pile before he killed himself.

Members of the bomb squad, including Mike Guerra, removed the items from his body before rolling him over to access his cargo pocket to check for more bombs.

You can see the reference on page [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] of the 11k report under Mike Guerra's testimony stating they removed personal articles from Klebold before rolling him over and removing both suspects' bodies.

For further verification, if Dylan had taken off his jewelry and placed it in a pile before he died, that pile and/or individual items would be noted in the crime scene sketches as evidence on the floor. It was not. That combined with Guerra's notes about removing personal articles from Dylan's body before turning him over to check his pocket makes it clear that the pile was created by the investigator who removed the items from Dylan's body.

This has bothered me for some time, not sure where the rumor began, but it's not true. I guess it sounds cool and interesting to think that Dylan was trying to preserve his jewelry or something, but he wasn't. He died with it on his body.

This has always bothered me, too. The autopsy report even says that he was still wearing his onyx ring. If he was performing some ritualistic removal of his jewelry, why would he have left the ring on? That wouldn't make sense. This, and people's insistence that his death occurred minutes after Eric's. The usual scenario- he took off his jewelry, he lit a final Molotov, and then he finally killed himself. There's no evidence for any of this. The jewelry thing is false and we've no idea who lit the last Molotov because according to police it was set on the table and probably burned for a while before breaking and spilling the contents on the tissue (presumed to be Eric's) on the table. Eric could have just as easily lit it, shot himself, and then it broke a little while later. Or Dylan lit it before either of them killed themselves or after Eric killed himself. We'll never know, and while it's fine to speculate about what could have happened, in this instance it's actually just a story that has been created and repeated often enough that now it is taken as fact. For some reason, they prefer this dramatic last "clinging to life" scenario for Dylan. Only two people know what went on in their final moments, and that's the way it will stay.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeSat Dec 14, 2019 12:24 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
Lizpuff My thoughts? After working every kind of death you can dream of as an Assistant Medical Examiner, aside from being burned alive, the sight of a 12 gauge shotgun wound to the head is gruesome. We can all see some of the damage to Eric's head, but I assure you what we didn't see was not for the feint of heart.

I don't know that Eric had a full understanding of what his suicide would do to his head, so I feel like he went ahead with it, neither knowing or caring the outcome. (I do have to say, his poor parents having to see the horror is heartbreaking, as it always is. It's a possibility they did not see him and I pray that is the case).

In my opinion, I think Dylan saw the devastation of Eric's 12 gauge suicide and decided he didn't want to go out that way. Of course, this is my speculation.

As an aside, I don't know how many have seen the full color autopsy photo of JFK, but the hole in his head looks like a Skittle compared to some shotgun blasts to the head.

shades - were you at one point ultraviolent? I have certainly missed you and your wonderful thoughts, if this is you.

This post is just sad.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeMon Dec 16, 2019 3:49 am

Quote :
This has always bothered me, too. The autopsy report even says that he was still wearing his onyx ring.

I remember reading that his ring was on his left hand, under the glove. If my memory is correct that would make sense because they didn't take his glove off at the scene to get to the ring.

Quote :
If he was performing some ritualistic removal of his jewelry, why would he have left the ring on? That wouldn't make sense.

Exactly my thought. I chalk it up to a general lack of knowledge that crime scenes aren't processed the way it happens on TV and there are tons of assumptions. It seems that someone noticed that his jewelry was placed in a bag and put in his body bag and thought Dylan must have taken it off and put it into a pile. There are several pervasive false beliefs that seems to taint the ability to understand crime scene processing. One false belief being that photographs are never taken after bodies and items are moved, thus the assumption that all photos, diagrams, descriptions, and sketches either represent the exact scene investigators walked into - or they represent a scene that has been tampered with. People forget that there are multiple stages to processing a scene and items and bodies are routinely moved and sketched, photographed, and items in pockets are pulled out and documented, etc. there is going to be variation between diagrams and photos and we have no way of knowing what we're reading or looking at. We have zero context. We don't know jack.

Quote :
This, and people's insistence that his death occurred minutes after Eric's. The usual scenario- he took off his jewelry, he lit a final Molotov, and then he finally killed himself. There's no evidence for any of this.


You're right, there is no evidence for this. There are more assumptions and created stories that get pretty creative, but no actual evidence. I read something somewhere that someone was speculating that Dylan was probably distraught over watching Eric Die and he lit a molotov cocktail and sat around for a while contemplating his suicide and on and on... again, no evidence.

The only evidence we have is that Eric's brain matter hit the desk BEFORE the molotov cocktail "exploded" (if you want to call it that). Here's my issue with using that as evidence that Eric died minutes before Dylan. The assumption is that the molotov cocktail was lit and thrown by Dylan. Molotov cocktails are designed to be smashed to ignite. If I remember correctly, the bottle was more in tact than it should have been had it been thrown. It could have been lit and just set down on the desk. Normally, that wouldn't cause the bottle to break but we don't even know what it was made of fully nor how it was constructed. We simply don't have enough information to form a conclusion. All we know is that Eric's brain matter hit the desk before the molotov cocktail jar broke. That's it. That's a far cry from determining the time between their deaths and a lot of other assumptions that see to be part of those narratives.

Quote :
The jewelry thing is false and we've no idea who lit the last Molotov because according to police it was set on the table and probably burned for a while before breaking and spilling the contents on the tissue (presumed to be Eric's) on the table. Eric could have just as easily lit it, shot himself, and then it broke a little while later. Or Dylan lit it before either of them killed themselves or after Eric killed himself. We'll never know, and while it's fine to speculate about what could have happened, in this instance it's actually just a story that has been created and repeated often enough that now it is taken as fact. For some reason, they prefer this dramatic last "clinging to life" scenario for Dylan. Only two people know what went on in their final moments, and that's the way it will stay.

Yep completely true! Eric could have set it on the table, lit it, decided not to throw it, killed himself - and then Dylan may have shot at it, or threw it and then killed himself. Or the cops firing into the library could have shot it and caused it to explode. But molotov cocktails don't usually explode without being thrown. So the very idea that either of them lit it, then set it on the table and it just magically exploded is really bizarre because the burning fuse doesn't cause the contents to explode. The explosion happens on impact when the lit fuse (fire) comes in contact with the napalm or gas inside. But the napalm has to spread out for the fire to ignite. A lit fuse won't ignite the mixture while it's in the glass jar. If the fire got that far down the fuse it would go out. So whoever came up with that idea originally literally had no idea what they were talking about...

It's the same thing with the propane bombs. They weren't designed to work the way people imagine. And I can't share details on here for obvious reasons but people have it in their minds that "lit fuse=will automatically explode whatever it's attached to" but that's not how it works.

I have a really hard time believing that last molotov cocktail was actually thrown. I have an even harder time believing that it was exploded by Dylan specifically. It's very possible, but that conclusion is just as plausible as the possibility that the cops shot it when they fired into the library window and it ignited from the bullet and it was never lit at all.

That's not very romantic and it makes Dylan's death feel boring so I don't think that theory will be very popular.

But damn, a good story sells like hotcakes... especially about Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeTue Dec 17, 2019 6:51 pm

EthanEmerson wrote:
I have a really hard time believing that last molotov cocktail was actually thrown. I have an even harder time believing that it was exploded by Dylan specifically. It's very possible, but that conclusion is just as plausible as the possibility that the cops shot it when they fired into the library window and it ignited from the bullet and it was never lit at all.

Jerry Means was responsible for investigating the fire in the library. He determined that it was caused by the Molotov cocktail being placed on the surface of Table 15.
From the Columbine Report, pg. 8938- 8939
Quote :
The fuse/wick on a Molotov cocktail type device is not designed to penetrate the container and ignite the contents. It is designed to ignite the product in its vapor form once dispersed. A container simply placed in a stationary location may not ignite at all due to the fuse burning itself out. It is reasonable for the fuse device to apply enough heat to the exterior of the container and cause it to fracture in that location. This condition is consistent with the fuel pattern and lack of heavy fire damage observed on the top of the table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Threaded pieces of the top of the glass bottle used to contain the fuel were found on the tabletop. The threaded pieces of glass were heavily charred indicating a pro-longed exposure to fire. The fuel pattern on the table was consistent with the determined bottle location. near the south edge. The glass and fuel directional patterns were inconsistent with a high-pressure content release, and no evidence that the bottle was thrown against the table was found.

The cause of the fire was determined to be intentionally set. This determination was made after ruling out all other possible fire causes in or near the area of origin.
The directional liquid and glass patterns indicated a glass container with a wick was placed upright on the south edge of table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] A fuse type device was lit and the device was left to burn in that position. Body tissue in a pattern consistent with the suspects wound patterns was adhered to the surface of the table. The liquid spill pattern and surface soot from the fire were observed on the outer layer of tissue. This observation indicated the body tissue was on the top of the table before the liquid was released from the container.

EthanEmerson wrote:
But damn, a good story sells like hotcakes... especially about Dylan.
Ain't that the truth!?!
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan Klebold's suicide   Dylan Klebold's suicide Icon_minitimeTue Dec 17, 2019 8:50 pm

Ah yep that's what I remembered reading... thanks for posting that! Looks like all that happened is someone lit the molotov cocktail, put it on the table and left it there to burn and it burned for a long period of time. There's no way to know if it was set down and lit by Eric or Dylan. All we know is Eric died before the glass bottle broke. Which doesn't say anything about how much time there was between their deaths.

And yet people cite this evidence to prove Dylan lit the molotov cocktail as one last "hurrah" before his suicide. There are so many strange ideas people cling to regarding Dylan.
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