Forgiving Sue Klebold

runreilly wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

 Well according to a lot of people at Columbine that is what their TCM was.  They were dorky kids who played Magic at lunch and basically stuck to themselves.  The rumor about them being trouble or trying to cause trouble is mostly a myth.

The thing that I wonder is if these types of kids experienced less bullying after Columbine.  Maybe the timing was just right at my HS, but the general feeling was that it just wasn't funny.

From what I heard bullying stopped for a while after Columbine, but then started right back up. I feel like the TCM was mostly ignored or talked about behind their backs. Some were scared of them. I don't think they were as bullied as others make it out to be

PaintItBlack wrote:

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It is Mitchell Johnson who is back in jail on drug possession and theft charges if I am not mistaken.
Andrew Golden got out of jail, changed his name and apparently lives a quiet, law abiding life and has since his release which has been several years ago now. Little if anything more is known about his life today. One can debate if they should still be in jail but I am glad that for whatever reason, at least one of them seems to be making something out of the second chance they were given.

yea, the one kid Golden is at least staying out of trouble. The Johnson kid gets caught up with drugs, theft and weapons charges and back in the system for 10-15 years. I wonder why they didn't give him the OJ treatment and put him away for good on the second round of charges? He'll be in his 30's/early 40's when he gets out again.. I'm sure that'll go well.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Ha! I love any O.J. reference! I'd like to hold a pillow over his face. And I'm being very generous and "humane" there. You're like a lot of us with a sensible world view (I just happen to have a dash of dark humor).

On a separate note, forgiveness is not mine to give. I sympathize with the parents, but my "forgiveness" is self serving.

Fatheroftwo wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
It is Mitchell Johnson who is back in jail on drug possession and theft charges if I am not mistaken.
Andrew Golden got out of jail, changed his name and apparently lives a quiet, law abiding life and has since his release which has been several years ago now. Little if anything more is known about his life today. One can debate if they should still be in jail but I am glad that for whatever reason, at least one of them seems to be making something out of the second chance they were given.

yea, the one kid Golden is at least staying out of trouble.  The Johnson kid gets caught up with drugs, theft and weapons charges and back in the system for 10-15 years.  I wonder why they didn't give him the OJ treatment and put him away for good on the second round of charges?  He'll be in his 30's/early 40's when he gets out again..  I'm sure that'll go well.

According to Langman, Golden was a psychopath. He was the youngest school shooter at 11 years old and even before he came up with the idea for a mass shooting he had a history of sadistic and intimidating behavior.

Peter Langman wrote:

When  he  was  away  from  his  parents  and  teachers,  however,  Drew  showed  a different side of himself. Neighbors described him as “ a little demon,” “ mean-spirited,” and “ evil-acting.” He was hostile, aggressive, and threatening toward other children. He hit girls. He cursed and yelled at his peers. He threatened to shoot them with his BB gun. He rode his bicycle with a knife strapped to his leg, intimidating other children.

And then there was his behavior with cats. Cats  had  a  way  of  disappearing  when  Drew  was  around.  He  killed  a  cat  by starving it in a barrel. He pushed the heads of kittens through a chain-link fence. He shot bottle rockets and BBs at cats, tied one to a clothesline and shot BBs at it, and slit the throats of others.

Journalists  at  the  trial  noted  a  disturbing  lack  of  emotion  in  the  boy  while  in court.  One  observer  said  that  Drew  “ seemed  almost  insouciant  in  his  court appearance.” Another said “ Drew appeared to not be interested in the proceedings.” Still another remarked on the difference between Mitchell and Drew: “ One of the boy killers  sat  in  court  yesterday  looking  relaxed  and  even  smiled  at  his  parents.  Drew Golden didn’t seem to have a care in the world as he listened to the charges that he committed  multiple  murder.  In  contrast  his  13-year-old  friend  Mitchell  Johnson sobbed.”

sscc wrote:

Fatheroftwo wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
It is Mitchell Johnson who is back in jail on drug possession and theft charges if I am not mistaken.
Andrew Golden got out of jail, changed his name and apparently lives a quiet, law abiding life and has since his release which has been several years ago now. Little if anything more is known about his life today. One can debate if they should still be in jail but I am glad that for whatever reason, at least one of them seems to be making something out of the second chance they were given.

yea, the one kid Golden is at least staying out of trouble.  The Johnson kid gets caught up with drugs, theft and weapons charges and back in the system for 10-15 years.  I wonder why they didn't give him the OJ treatment and put him away for good on the second round of charges?  He'll be in his 30's/early 40's when he gets out again..  I'm sure that'll go well.

According to Langman, Golden was a psychopath. He was the youngest school shooter at 11 years old and even before he came up with the idea for a mass shooting he had a history of sadistic and intimidating behavior.

Peter Langman wrote:

When  he  was  away  from  his  parents  and  teachers,  however,  Drew  showed  a different side of himself. Neighbors described him as “ a little demon,” “ mean-spirited,” and “ evil-acting.” He was hostile, aggressive, and threatening toward other children. He hit girls. He cursed and yelled at his peers. He threatened to shoot them with his BB gun. He rode his bicycle with a knife strapped to his leg, intimidating other children.

And then there was his behavior with cats. Cats  had  a  way  of  disappearing  when  Drew  was  around.  He  killed  a  cat  by starving it in a barrel. He pushed the heads of kittens through a chain-link fence. He shot bottle rockets and BBs at cats, tied one to a clothesline and shot BBs at it, and slit the throats of others.

Journalists  at  the  trial  noted  a  disturbing  lack  of  emotion  in  the  boy  while  in court.  One  observer  said  that  Drew  “ seemed  almost  insouciant  in  his  court appearance.” Another said “ Drew appeared to not be interested in the proceedings.” Still another remarked on the difference between Mitchell and Drew: “ One of the boy killers  sat  in  court  yesterday  looking  relaxed  and  even  smiled  at  his  parents.  Drew Golden didn’t seem to have a care in the world as he listened to the charges that he committed  multiple  murder.  In  contrast  his  13-year-old  friend  Mitchell  Johnson sobbed.”

yea, despite his "silence" who would be surprised if he popped up down the road involved in something very heinous. I have always thought age shouldn't matter in regards to pre meditated first degree murder. Same with the insanity pleas.. who is to say they won't get off their meds or relapse by traumatic event and go off the reservation again?

Shooter in CO whom I forget the name, wounded two in an attempt to shoot several victims at his old middle school (guy was in his 30's). He did several years in a ward, but now is basically on house arrest, free and can even travel to approved near by places such as grocery stores etc.. He is even responsible for taking his own/unsupervised medications.

Our friends @ JeffCo made that brilliant call.

Tomb wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Ha! I love any O.J. reference! I'd like to hold a pillow over his face. And I'm being very generous and "humane" there. You're like a lot of us with a sensible world view (I just happen to have a dash of dark humor).

On a separate note, forgiveness is not mine to give. I sympathize with the parents, but my "forgiveness" is self serving.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

lol, that OJ was quite the guy. I was raised in the bible belt and parents that included a masters in theology, very active in the church etc.. we weren't allowed to sue people, turn the other cheek.. all that good stuff. The more I live and learn, study behaviors, psychology etc, I come to realize some people are just wired wrong, will never rehabilitate, always pose a threat and don't deserve the luxury of forgiveness.

If it helps at all.. I hear OJ is really struggling these days mentally and physically and his once abundant life of romancing, stalking and abusing beautiful women has been minimized to "playing catch" with a fellow TS inmate:)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Oh dear lord, my religious background was Hellfire and Brimnation. The moment I got a chance I said, yeah NO! I believe in God, but not a vengeful God. That indoctrination into being hell bound forever soured church for me. The hypocrisy in my church was sickening. For the chosen ones, they were heaven bound. The rest of us were doomed to hell. It's really a traumatic experience for a child.

I think that's why I eat fire 3 meals a day and raise hell...before cancer or whatever this affliction is.

Oh brad, while we are at it, I had an epiphany, if you will. Kyle Valasquez, a SPECIAL NEEDS student, totally deserved it. He was the Rocky of the class of '99. I have sprained my eyes from rolling them at some of these posts. Of course, that's sarcastic for those who....may not get it.

Fatheroftwo wrote:

yea, despite his "silence" who would be surprised if he popped up down the road involved in something very heinous.  I have always thought age shouldn't matter in regards to pre meditated first degree murder.  Same with the insanity pleas..  who is to say they won't get off their meds or relapse by traumatic event and go off the reservation again?

Shooter in CO whom I forget the name, wounded two in an attempt to shoot several victims at his old middle school (guy was in his 30's).  He did several years in a ward, but now is basically on house arrest, free and can even travel to approved near by places such as grocery stores etc..  He is even responsible for taking his own/unsupervised medications.

Our friends @ JeffCo made that brilliant call.

At least that guy didn't manage to decapitate someone and get back out into the community like Vince Li.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I first heard about this case a few years ago but I just looked for an article to post here and coincidentally, this guy actually won the right to be discharged and live independently with no supervision today.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[/quote]
At least that guy didn't manage to decapitate someone and get back out into the community like Vince Li.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I first heard about this case a few years ago but I just looked for an article to post here and coincidentally, this guy actually won the right to be discharged and live independently with no supervision today.[/quote]

Just wow, sscc with the find of the day.

So a guy cuts a dudes head off while riding a Greyhound bus and while the other bus riders flee in horror he dangles the head and taunts before deciding to get in a lil snack/eating the mans eyes and heart? Making sport out of decapitation and cannibalism in a public venue could be described as a little different I suppose.

The guy serves <6 years in a max security mental health facility and is set free. Oh my.

Why didn't someone stop Golden from starving that poor cat to death? If it was known after he did that, nobody knew before? That's a lot crueler than shooting one and killing it.

I can't help but to feel sorry for Mitchell Johnson.
Nothing can excuse what he did but I know he was a victim of molestation in his background and somehow he seemed like a very troubled kid.Unlike Golden he seemed show some remorse and it seemed sincere at least on the surface. He seemed to have a very hard time adjusting to life in society after spending most of his teen years in jail.

PaintItBlack wrote:

I can't help but to feel sorry for Mitchell  Johnson.
Nothing can excuse what he did but I know he was a victim of molestation in his background and somehow he seemed like a very troubled kid.Unlike Golden he seemed show some remorse and it seemed sincere at least on the surface. He seemed to have a very hard time adjusting to life in society after spending most of his teen years in jail.

I hear yea. He spent so many formative years in jail learning how to be a thug (bc the American prison system is a joke). When he got out he got busted for pot and having a handgun if my memory is correct. He should have known better, but I don't know if he was the savage murderer he was when he went on that massacre as a kid.

I was just thinking that both Johnson and Golden were extremely lucky that the law in Arkansas was what it was at the time(killers under age 14 had to be offered parole by 18 or 21, I forget which) or they'd both be in prison for life.
I hope that Johnson can get out of jail and will have a fresh start to make a good life for himself.

PaintItBlack wrote:

I was just thinking that both Johnson and Golden were extremely lucky that the law in Arkansas was what it was at the time(killers under age 14 had to be offered parole by 18 or 21, I forget which) or they'd both be in prison for life.
I hope that Johnson can get out of jail and will have a fresh start to make a good life for himself.

It's really amazing how young they were. In category all their own.