What I think made Columbine less "scary" than some other shootings

Not in terms of death total/body count, but in terms of how we perceive the killers is that, even though Eric and Dylan were full of hatred and violent intentions by the time they executed NBK, they weren't completely socially inept/abnormal. They weren't long removed from being functioning teenagers. Sure they were weird to the mainstream people at their school, but I think the most chilling school shootings occur when you have someone like Adam Lanza or the VT shooter triggering it who are so socially inept and seemingly inhuman that their presence alone gives you chills.

Eric and Dylan were laughing and cracking crude jokes while carrying out their executions, but if they weren't holding weapons, you would probably just roll your eyes at them and wish they'd stop rambling about being gods. I'd be far more terrified of someone like Lanza walking in robotically with that blank stare on his face and the shaky eyes while opening fire.


You know what I mean? I'm not trying to downplay how tragic all of these school shootings are, but for me personally, it always sends a chill down my spine when it's the kid you know absolutely nothing about who doesn't even behave anything like a normal teen whatsoever.

I think you could also make the point that this makes the Columbine massacre more scary.

I definitely don't think either killers behaved normally, though, especially in the year before they murdered people.

myshame wrote:

I think you could also make the point that this makes the Columbine massacre more scary.

I definitely don't think either killers behaved normally, though, especially in the year before they murdered people.

Yeah well when I was in HS back in the day, I was much more terrified of the Adam Lanza types. THOSE are the guys you immediately think have been bullied so much and/or abused at home that they're ticking time bombs to whom basically nobody can relate.


At least Eric and Dylan were chilling with girls at prom and after parties shortly before they went bananas. Eric and Dylan wouldn't have scared me in the slightest. They would have come off as action movie wannabes.

edit

Someone like Lanza or Cho would have been scary because of their blank faces and robotic actions but if I were to have known Eric or Dylan even on an acquaintance level and had spent time with them listening to their jokes or at the prom after party just to watch them kill people I knew days later...that would be scary. Eric and Dylan acted pretty much normal right up until the 20. I cannot imagine being them at school on the 19 acting like everything was fine all the while knowing that tomorrow they were going to blow the place up.

Personally, I would rather be shot by a furious, arrogant teenager than an emotionless young adult. At least the teen would be showing emotion. At least I would be able to know that despite their cruel actions, they are still human.

It's understandable why some people find the Columbine shooters less frightening than Lanza and Cho, since the latter both appeared psychotic and very asocial, in my opinion. Psychotic people are out of touch with reality and have no control of their actions.

Psychopaths (like Eric Harris) however, are able to think rationally and use logical reasoning, in spite of committing shocking and vicious deeds. But before they commit these deeds, they make an effort to appear somewhat normal and blend in. So it also makes sense that some people find the thought of discovering that someone is a wolf in sheep's clothing, even scarier.
If a person appears abnormal and out of touch with reality, you can sort of predict that they're either going to put others and/or themselves in danger eventually. But psychopaths who feign normal human behavior, are not as transparent.

If you ask me, all types of rampage killers are frightening in their own ways. There's no scarier or less scarier, when it comes to this.

Skrik wrote:

I've always thought that Adam Lanza's "Well, you're here." was among the most chilling quotes from mass-murderers. It's a simple statement that shouldn't be that threatening on its own, but having heard his call to the Anarchy radio station, the thought of him saying that to a first-grader in his monotone, emotionless voice before immediately shooting them is far worse than any of the other quotes I've heard. There was truly something about him that was just naturally unnerving.

Earlier I said that we should make killers out to be laughing stocks while honoring the memory of their victims. With people Like Elliot "Cant Dodge Me" Rodger and Randy "Blaze" Stair, that's fairly easy; there is ample material that we can mock them for, from comically non self-aware manifestos, to an obsession with a minor character from a children's television show. You can't do that with Lanza. Everything about him is bizarre or disturbing. Rodger planned to shoot up a sorority and was stopped by a locked door. Lanza brutally killed his mother and dozens of children with brutal efficiency. Rodger left behind a series of extremely pathetic forum posts, and an equally pathetic manifesto.  Lanza left behind a series of extremely well articulated series of posts on why there is nothing wrong with pedophilia. Rodger's main photo depict a total loser trying to look cool. When you look at it, you instantly recognize just how pathetic he is. Lanza's main photo depict him someone completely fucking horrifying. Just looking at that picture you naturally assume he did something horrible.

Glamazon wrote:

Psychopaths (like Eric Harris) however, are able to think rationally and use logical reasoning, in spite of committing shocking and vicious deeds. But before they commit these deeds, they make an effort to appear somewhat normal and blend in. So it also makes sense that some people find the thought of discovering that someone is a wolf in sheep's clothing, even scarier.
If a person appears abnormal and out of touch with reality, you can sort of predict that they're either going to put others and/or themselves in danger eventually. But psychopaths who feign normal human behavior, are not as transparent.

He wasn't a psychopath. Jesus Christ. He saw the people he killed as almost subhumans. He had empathy just didn't care about how they felt because of what I said before. They were below him in his eyes. He would feel sorry for people he did care about like his friends and family though. I really think that you need to read up on Psychopathy or define what exactly you think it is/means instead of throwing a false diagnosis at someone you clearly can't understand at all. Like as much as it might shock you just because you feel empathy doesn't mean that you care about how someone else feels.

"Lanza's main photo depict him someone completely fucking horrifying. Just looking at that picture you naturally assume he did something horrible."

When I first saw the pictures of Lanza I thought of two things:
1)my old learner's permit driver's license photo looked awfully similar when I was about 13
2)that bowl-haired kid must have had the living SHIT pounded out of him in high school!

Glamazon wrote:

It's understandable why some people find the Columbine shooters less frightening than Lanza and Cho, since the latter both appeared psychotic and very asocial, in my opinion. Psychotic people are out of touch with reality and have no control of their actions.

Psychopaths (like Eric Harris) however, are able to think rationally and use logical reasoning, in spite of committing shocking and vicious deeds. But before they commit these deeds, they make an effort to appear somewhat normal and blend in. So it also makes sense that some people find the thought of discovering that someone is a wolf in sheep's clothing, even scarier.
If a person appears abnormal and out of touch with reality, you can sort of predict that they're either going to put others and/or themselves in danger eventually. But psychopaths who feign normal human behavior, are not as transparent.

If you ask me, all types of rampage killers are frightening in their own ways. There's no scarier or less scarier, when it comes to this.

Oh you're one of those "Eric was a psychopath" people...

I think in a way, Eric was a psychopath but not by choice. Or more precisely i think he ACTED like it.

And it's all the difference between columbine and other mass shooting event.
These boys, were not totaly mad, totaly insane or insensitive. They were, and it's my personal opinion, profundly human, despite all their hate, murders, and crazy stuff.

We often forget that Eric, and even Dylan, were confronted before April 20th, to the police.
And learn in a way, more specifically Eric with his authoritarian father, to find a strategy to avoid problem by being manipulative. And his antipathy was an answer too... An answer to his bullying, to his difficulties with social life and other thing like that. It was in a way, also, a way to be more than just a bullied kid, to be, in a way a cool kid too.

I don't denied that Eric take pleasure to act like that, to kill, or to hate. But in a way, he was also trapped, and forced by his environnement, his life, to act like that, to not suffer every time, and to simply, be.
That's the kind or thing that generate, isolation, rejection, and solitude.
Being psychopath was more for Eric, like a shell of existence in whom he pleased and which slowly pulled him to his loss.

So why is it less scary than other mass shooting ?

Cause we've all in our life feel isolation, rejection, and solitude due to other people.
And we saw in this case, a terrible extreme culmination or that.

Parents after the shooting said : It can be any of our kids.
I'll say, that it can be any of us. That's why it appears less scary but more disturbing. It appears not like a blind action, but like an extreme violent human reaction. Because in a way, we understand without approved Columbine. And in a way pushed to our limits, we could proceed stupidly exactly like that too..

Remember, that despite all this hate, all this plan to kill and all these horrible events, Eric was, few days before the shooting, and lonely guy crying in his car. Hopeless and probably affraid of dying soon.

That's why basement tapes are important. I think they have the power to put new lights of understanding on this case. For many Eric and Dylan appears as a martyr, and they were probably horrible in these records, but horribly stupid too. Through all the hate they said, i think that we can percieved and inch of despair.
That's what i see when i look at "Hitman for hire" :
Two boys dreaming of being important, hiding under a big surface of violence and resentments.

Oh boy, I figured I'd cross paths with a Columbiner/Sympathizer eventually, but the ignorance truly never ceases to astonish me.

sitnwatchitburn wrote:

I really think that you need to read up on Psychopathy

Before I begin this tiresome debate, it is already very clear that the person who needs to read up on psychopathy and antisocial disorders is you.

sitnwatchitburn wrote:

He wasn't a psychopath. Jesus Christ. He saw the people he killed as almost subhumans. He had empathy just didn't care about how they felt because of what I said before. They were below him in his eyes.

In your laughable attempt at explaining why you're so convinced he wasn't a psychopath, you ironically bring up a common antisocial trait. Why exactly do you think he considered himself above other people?

One of the most common and classic antisocial traits is a grandiose self-perception and sense of self-worth. In other words, the psychopath believes that he/she is better and more important than other people (which Eric obviously did). His belief that he was superior to other people stemmed from his antisocial personality disorder/psychopathy. There is no proof to justify his belief or statistics to back up his conviction that he’s better and smarter than everyone else, but yet that is what he believed.

sitnwatchitburn wrote:

He would feel sorry for people he did care about like his friends and family though.

You have one hell of a sick and twisted definition of, "caring" in that case. If his attempt at bombarding the school would’ve been successful, all of his friends in Colorado could’ve been annihilated. He knew this and yet remained indifferent of this fact.
He knew that his family would suffer because of his actions, but went through with the massacre anyway. That’s not caring. That’s simply knowing. He was aware but didn’t care. Him simply giving a half-hearted and concise apology to his friends and family in the last basement tape, means nothing. He even stated in his journal that, “sorry” is a word that means nothing to him. Actions speak louder than words.

sitnwatchitburn wrote:

instead of throwing a false diagnosis at someone you clearly can't understand at all

The diagnosis you call, "fake" is a diagnosis that a group of psychologists aka people who've studied the human mind and human behavior extensively for years, agreed upon giving him. You would be wise to base your opinions on factual information and take the opinion of professionals into consideration when you decide what is most likely right or inaccurate, instead of believing what you simply want to believe.  

People who don't think that the killer in question was a psychopath are usually either;
A. Fangirls whose infatuation with the killer clouds their judgement and puts them in denial of his antisocial disorder, which causes them to ignore or deny the fact that the killer in question clearly derived pleasure from hurting others (common antisocial trait), regardless of whether they’d wronged him or not. These fangirls ignore the undesirable truth in an attempt to not destroy their idealized picture of their heartthrob and foolishly attempt to justify the killer's behavior by searching for and holding onto glimpses from his childhood where he helped friends or was kind to animals, in order to prove that he wasn't a psychopath. They wouldn’t like knowing that he committed murder because of an antisocial disorder. Nobody wants to date a psycho, after all.

B. Angsty teenagers who can relate to the killer's generalized hatred for the world and anger, because they've also been mistreated and ostracized by their peers. They ignore the mental illness issue because it obstructs their view that the shooting solely or mainly occurred because of the bullying. So since they relate to Eric when it comes to their hatred of the world, depression and being victims of bullying, they overlook his sadistic traits that they don’t possess themselves. Partially because they don’t understand the sadism and because they don’t want to consider him a bloodthirsty psychopath, because they wouldn’t relate to him as much anymore if they did. These people tend to consider him, “the hero who took revenge on bullies” but overlook the fact that he also wanted to kill innocent people and did in fact mainly kill and injure students who’d never wronged him. Wishing death upon someone who’s wronged you is not uncommon especially when you’ve been bullied severely and for a long time. But when someone puts their homicidal thoughts into actions because they consider fellow human beings inferior, they’re morally corrupt and suffer from some kind of mental disorder since they can’t rationalize like a normal person.

C. People who aren't well-versed in psychology and who might not realize that Hollywood’s glamorized and glorified depiction of psychopathy isn’t accurate.

sitnwatchitburn wrote:

or define what exactly you think it is/means

The topic of this thread isn’t Eric Harris' mental diagnosis. If you want to know why I consider him a psychopath, I’m eventually planning on posting a long and detailed post in this thread; [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Hopefully it will make some people come to their senses. Although I doubt it will get through to the average Columbiner, because trying to convince Columbiners/sympathizers of the killer’s antisocial personality disorder is like talking to a wall, most of the time. In other words; frustrating and a waste of time. But it might be worth a shot.

sitnwatchitburn wrote:

Like as much as it might shock you just because you feel empathy doesn't mean that you care about how someone else feels.

Your definition of empathy is ludicrously erroneous. In order to have a significant and healthy level of empathy you have to care about how your actions affect other people and feel sympathy for their suffering. You cannot have a healthy and normal amount of empathy and still viciously kill someone who doesn’t pose a threat to your safety, because you consider the person in question, “inferior” to you or because he/she might’ve offended you in the past, like Eric did.
He even claimed that Columbine was a good school and that the janitor was doing a good job and etc. Which is one of those things that shows that he mainly committed the massacre to punish the human race for being so, “inferior”, for not acknowledging his superiority and for not giving him what he considered himself entitled to (psychopaths have a huge sense of self-entitlement, I might add).  

TheSpiral wrote:

Oh you're one of those "Eric was a psychopath" people...

What is your point exactly? I'm guessing this sentence is a patronizing indication that I'm brainwashed for believing that Eric was a psychopath or something along those lines.

STK wrote:

Earlier I said that we should make killers out to be laughing stocks while honoring the memory of their victims.

I've always thought this was really immature. Go on pretty much any mass murderer related video with a decent amount of comments on it and there will be a plethora of "lol what a fag" comments, or the classic white knights who try to sound tough by threatening a dead person. People seem to think they're doing some kind of justice or harming the perpetrator in some way, but all they're really doing is showing that they're unable to learn a lesson from what's happened and are encouraging the exact type of behavior that likely contributed to the breaking of the person in question.

Skrik wrote:

I've always thought this was really immature. Go on pretty much any mass murderer related video with a decent amount of comments on it and there will be a plethora of "lol what a fag" comments, or the classic white knights who try to sound tough by threatening a dead person. People seem to think they're doing some kind of justice or harming the perpetrator in some way, but all they're really doing is showing that they're unable to learn a lesson from what's happened and are encouraging the exact type of behavior that likely contributed to the breaking of the person in question.

I concede that you have a point when it comes to the majority of killers, but when it comes to people like Rodger and Stair, they're just begging to be mocked.

STK wrote:

I concede that you have a point when it comes to the majority of killers, but when it comes to people like Rodger and Stair, they're just begging to be mocked.

I agree with you 100% there. I can't even begin to take Randy Stair seriously, especially considering the fact that he's not even technically a mass murderer due to his low body count, despite usually being treated as such. For that matter, Elliot was technically a spree killer and not a mass murderer as well. There seems to have been a trend of people who wanted to commit a mass shooting but ultimately ended up either failing or backing out in the end always being the ones who had the most laughable and embarrassing personalities. TJ Lane is another that comes to mind.

Skrik wrote:

STK wrote:

Earlier I said that we should make killers out to be laughing stocks while honoring the memory of their victims.

I've always thought this was really immature. Go on pretty much any mass murderer related video with a decent amount of comments on it and there will be a plethora of "lol what a fag" comments, or the classic white knights who try to sound tough by threatening a dead person. People seem to think they're doing some kind of justice or harming the perpetrator in some way, but all they're really doing is showing that they're unable to learn a lesson from what's happened and are encouraging the exact type of behavior that likely contributed to the breaking of the person in question.

Yeah, I've never understood those people. Why bother? The killer's never going to see what they said anyway.

STK wrote:

Elliot "Cant Dodge Me" Rodger

Just want to point out that it's "Can't Dodge The Rodge"

InsaneIntruder wrote:

STK wrote:

Elliot "Cant Dodge Me" Rodger

Just want to point out that it's "Can't Dodge The Rodge"

I know that but "Can't Dodge The" seemed awkward to say.