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 Eric as a Marine

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deelightful




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PostSubject: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2013 1:00 am

All the bios and books talk about Eric wanting to enlist in the Marines. He was clearly interested in warfare and we all know how that ended. But I was wondering, had the massacre not taken place, do you think Eric would have made a good Marine?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2013 1:19 am

No, had the massacre not taken place, I think Eric still would have lived a life filled with some kind of trouble and crime as he showcased this kind of behavior for a few years prior to the massacre.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2013 1:38 am

snegopady wrote:
All the bios and books talk about Eric wanting to enlist in the Marines. He was clearly interested in warfare and we all know how that ended. But I was wondering, had the massacre not taken place, do you think Eric would have made a good Marine?

I think it still would have ended badly. E/D could have killed everyone in the library, but they appeared to grow tired of murdering. I think it's not uncommon for rampage shooters to stop killing once they've expended their rage. I think Eric would have become bored with murder in the Marines too -he dreamed of something bigger.

Eric has also been described as an "injustice collector". He got offended by the slightest thing and held a grudge. Maybe someone in the Marines would have pissed him off and this could have re-ignited his hate towards the human race. If his hot temper had gotten him kicked out of the Marines, I'm certain the he would've started working on a plot much worse than Columbine.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2013 7:36 am

To me he looks a little weak in his videos, in a physically way, so I think it would have been very hard for him to be a marine. But on the other side I can imagine him as a good soldier, very obedient and hard-working. I often see him more like a worker, not like the big planner.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2013 10:03 am

Grandma wrote:
To me he looks a little weak in his videos, in a physically way, so I think it would have been very hard for him to be a marine.

I've never thought about this, but you're right, Eric does look physically weak. He looks short and underweight. I wonder why he never attempted to build up his body?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2013 10:30 am

StinkyOldGrapes wrote:
Grandma wrote:
To me he looks a little weak in his videos, in a physically way, so I think it would have been very hard for him to be a marine.



I've never thought about this, but you're right, Eric does look physically weak. He looks short and underweight. I wonder why he never attempted to build up his body?

Personally I don't think him looking underweight was something he could control. It could have been medication related or just his natural body type as a teenager. He does refer to himself as "skinny" and he answers "weight" when asked if there was one thing he could change about himself in his email questionnaire pg(26859) This would imply he was aware of how he looked and either didn't care enough to do anything about it or maybe he tried and it didn't have too much of an effect.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2013 11:24 am

Jenn wrote:
No, had the massacre not taken place, I think Eric still would have lived a life filled with some kind of trouble and crime as he showcased this kind of behavior for a few years prior to the massacre.

To answer the original question I agree with what Jenn said here. I think Eric had deep rooted issues that wouldn't have just simply gone away had he successfully enlisted in the Marines. As we know he wasn't eligible anyway to enlist based on him taking Luvox. 

Maybe i'm thinking about this too much but I just wanted to throw this thought out there. In order for him to be a Marine he would have had to have ceased taking his medication, so he would either have to have voluntarily stopped taking his medication or stopped taking it long enough so it would not show up on any tests, which could have turned out disastrous. Or, he would have had to sort out all his mental health issues in order to be taken off this medication, either by pretending he was no longer having issues or legitimately getting the help he needed which could have potentially taken years. Although I think this would be unlikely I think if he took the last option and did genuinely get himself some help so he could be at a stage where he no longer needed any kind of medication, then yes he could have made a good marine. He would have graduated high school with a decent set of grades, perhaps had a new outlook on life and be taking a career in something he was interested in and that i'm sure his parents would have been proud of. Eric also got an average score when taking the initial screening test for the Marines which would further indicate he would at least be on par with most of his comrades. 

I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent but personally I don't feel like Eric really wanted to join the Marines in the first place. He didn't seek them out, they sought him out based off a list of seniors provided by CHS. I think ultimately it was just a stalling method to keep his parents off his back so he could plan 4/20 without any additional hassle. But like I mentioned, if and it's a very small if, he had completely sorted himself out mentally he could certainly have had potential as a Marine. But sadly I don't think this would have been a very likely scenario had he lived. He could have ended up in a situation where joining the Marines was a last resort for him to do something with his life and he felt pressured into doing so which could have resulted in him going on some other kind of rampage.


Last edited by queenfarooq on Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : deleted fragment)
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2013 6:06 pm

queenfarooq wrote:
Jenn wrote:
No, had the massacre not taken place, I think Eric still would have lived a life filled with some kind of trouble and crime as he showcased this kind of behavior for a few years prior to the massacre.







To answer the original question I agree with what Jenn said here. I think Eric had deep rooted issues that wouldn't have just simply gone away had he successfully enlisted in the Marines. As we know he wasn't eligible anyway to enlist based on him taking Luvox. 

Maybe i'm thinking about this too much but I just wanted to throw this thought out there. In order for him to be a Marine he would have had to have ceased taking his medication, so he would either have to have voluntarily stopped taking his medication or stopped taking it long enough so it would not show up on any tests, which could have turned out disastrous. Or, he would have had to sort out all his mental health issues in order to be taken off this medication, either by pretending he was no longer having issues or legitimately getting the help he needed which could have potentially taken years. Although I think this would be unlikely I think if he took the last option and did genuinely get himself some help so he could be at a stage where he no longer needed any kind of medication, then yes he could have made a good marine.





To that point, I wonder if Eric would've been better off his medication as opposed to on it.  I recall Brooks Brown mentioned that Eric would go off his meds sometime to enhance his awareness - or something like that.  Which is just as bad because to go off those meds you really need to wean off slowly other wise the chemicals in the brain are going haywire.  But I wonder if these meds just exasterbated his homicidal tendencies in numbing him out.  And if his parents truly supported him going into the Marines (since he obviously had no other future plan in place with college), wouldn't they have talked with Eric and said "if this is something you really want to pursue, we can talk with the psychiatrist about weaning you off the meds and you can reapply with the Marines next year."  But I don't get the feeling that his parents really encouraged Eric in that direction.  I also kinda think Eric's mom put the damper on the Marines by showing the meds to the recruiter because Eric wanted to go on the front lines ??  But I do think Eric just left the Marines entirely up to fate.  It's like he was pleased that they tried to recruit him and that he willingly showed up to apply and jump through all the hoops to get in but ultimately, he was in too deep with his commitment (and ambitions for) NBK.  So, applying for the Marines was like tossing a coin.  And when they rejected him he was publically bummed out and told a few friends - Nate, I think.  But ultimately his mind set was more like: "see?  this isn't really want fate has in store for me, I really was destined for NBK.  Fuck society. Fuck the authority, fuck the marines, yadda yadda."  So, the rejection of the Marines was another nail on the coffin making him more determined to complete his NBK mission.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2013 6:29 pm

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
To that point, I wonder if Eric would've been better off his medication as opposed to on it.  I recall Brooks Brown mentioned that Eric would go off his meds sometime to enhance his awareness - or something like that.  Which is just as bad because to go off those meds you really need to wean off slowly other wise the chemicals in the brain are going haywire.  But I wonder if these meds just exasterbated his homicidal tendencies in numbing him out.  And if his parents truly supported him going into the Marines (since he obviously had no other future plan in place with college), wouldn't they have talked with Eric and said "if this is something you really want to pursue, we can talk with the psychiatrist about weaning you off the meds and you can reapply with the Marines next year."  But I don't get the feeling that his parents really encouraged Eric in that direction.  I also kinda think Eric's mom put the damper on the Marines by showing the meds to the recruiter because Eric wanted to go on the front lines ??  But I do think Eric just left the Marines entirely up to fate.  It's like he was pleased that they tried to recruit him and that he willingly showed up to apply and jump through all the hoops to get in but ultimately, he was in too deep with his commitment (and ambitions for) NBK.  So, applying for the Marines was like tossing a coin.  And when they rejected him he was publically bummed out and told a few friends - Nate, I think.  But ultimately his mind set was more like: "see?  this isn't really want fate has in store for me, I really was destined for NBK.  Fuck society. Fuck the authority, fuck the marines, yadda yadda."  So, the rejection of the Marines was another nail on the coffin making him more determined to complete his NBK mission.

He could have been doing anything with his medication, I wouldn't be surprised if he was going on and off his medication and like you said this could have only made things worse. It seems Eric had to be seen as having some future plans for the sake of his parents and I feel like the Marines contacted him at just the right time. His parents did inquire with the Marine sergeant about a delayed entry programme so a conversation could possibly have arisen between Eric and his parents about applying at a later date. At first glance it can seem like Mrs Harris almost did put a damper on things in showing the recruiter Erics medication but I don't feel like this was her intention. I think they were more than likely just making sure they had all the information they needed. 
I know you mentioned "when they rejected him" but according to the Marine recruiter Eric was never officially notified he had been rejected. The phone call informing Eric he would not be eligible was made to the Harris home requesting Eric call the Marine corps back on either 04-16-99 or 04-17-99 and Eric did not return this call. I think it's an important point to notice as it seems there were comments made by Eric that he had been rejected prior to this, also I'm not sure where it is but there was a comment he made himself about "I would have been a great Marine" or something to that effect. Perhaps he already knew his medication would make him ineligible or he was just lying. Personally I don't think he cared too much about joining the Marines once 4/20 had entered his mind and was starting to become a reality. 



 
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2013 6:39 pm

queenfarooq wrote:
InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
To that point, I wonder if Eric would've been better off his medication as opposed to on it.  I recall Brooks Brown mentioned that Eric would go off his meds sometime to enhance his awareness - or something like that.  Which is just as bad because to go off those meds you really need to wean off slowly other wise the chemicals in the brain are going haywire.  But I wonder if these meds just exasterbated his homicidal tendencies in numbing him out.  And if his parents truly supported him going into the Marines (since he obviously had no other future plan in place with college), wouldn't they have talked with Eric and said "if this is something you really want to pursue, we can talk with the psychiatrist about weaning you off the meds and you can reapply with the Marines next year."  But I don't get the feeling that his parents really encouraged Eric in that direction.  I also kinda think Eric's mom put the damper on the Marines by showing the meds to the recruiter because Eric wanted to go on the front lines ??  But I do think Eric just left the Marines entirely up to fate.  It's like he was pleased that they tried to recruit him and that he willingly showed up to apply and jump through all the hoops to get in but ultimately, he was in too deep with his commitment (and ambitions for) NBK.  So, applying for the Marines was like tossing a coin.  And when they rejected him he was publically bummed out and told a few friends - Nate, I think.  But ultimately his mind set was more like: "see?  this isn't really want fate has in store for me, I really was destined for NBK.  Fuck society. Fuck the authority, fuck the marines, yadda yadda."  So, the rejection of the Marines was another nail on the coffin making him more determined to complete his NBK mission.



He could have been doing anything with his medication, I wouldn't be surprised if he was going on and off his medication and like you said this could have only made things worse. It seems Eric had to be seen as having some future plans for the sake of his parents and I feel like the Marines contacted him at just the right time. His parents did inquire with the Marine sergeant about a delayed entry programme so a conversation could possibly have arisen between Eric and his parents about applying at a later date. At first glance it can seem like Mrs Harris almost did put a damper on things in showing the recruiter Erics medication but I don't feel like this was her intention. I think they were more than likely just making sure they had all the information they needed. 
I know you mentioned "when they rejected him" but according to the Marine recruiter Eric was never officially notified he had been rejected. The phone call informing Eric he would not be eligible was made to the Harris home requesting Eric call the Marine corps back on either 04-16-99 or 04-17-99 and Eric did not return this call. I think it's an important point to notice as it seems there were comments made by Eric that he had been rejected prior to this, also I'm not sure where it is but there was a comment he made himself about "I would have been a great Marine" or something to that effect. Perhaps he already knew his medication would make him ineligible or he was just lying. Personally I don't think he cared too much about joining the Marines once 4/20 had entered his mind and was starting to become a reality. 



 

Good point.  Eric didn't get "officially" rejected.  Eric just didn't bother calling back.  I'm sure he knew that the Marine's awareness of his meds kicked him out and he already knew the verdict.  I do recall friends saying he was bummed that he didn't make it in.  Who knows if Eric was actually bummed out or playing the part of being bummed out for friends - or maybe a little of both?  But yeah, NBK "came quick" and especially that week - 4/17 onward - that was the only thing on his mind.  Going out with a bang.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2013 6:54 pm

Yes, it would be far too late at that point. Although it's an interesting thought to ponder if he had received a call and been accepted, I still don't think it would have changed much but it's another one of those interesting what ifs. I just had a quick look on acolumbinesite and it states that it was December 1998 that Eric writes about how he would have made a good Marine "it would have given me a reason to be good." This is a very interesting statement. Also he mentions his parents been on his back for putting things off like the Marine Corp in the basement tape recorded April 11th. 
I don't have the reference right now but apparently Mark Manes and his girlfriend were trying to talk Eric out of enlisting in the Marines the night before 4/20. Again it is interesting this would come up in conversation, but it seems here Eric was just lying by stating these were his plans for after high school as he knew at this point this was not going to happen. It's quite sad that one of the items returned to Mr Harris after the shootings was a Marines enlistment packet. 

The interview with Sgt Gonzales is on pg(10087 - 10088) with additional information following. It's an interesting read.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2013 7:59 pm

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
But I wonder if these meds just exasterbated his homicidal tendencies in numbing him out.  And if his parents truly supported him going into the Marines (since he obviously had no other future plan in place with college), wouldn't they have talked with Eric and said "if this is something you really want to pursue, we can talk with the psychiatrist about weaning you off the meds and you can reapply with the Marines next year."  But I don't get the feeling that his parents really encouraged Eric in that direction. 


Hmm, interesting point. I recall reading that on the Basement Tapes transcripts Eric was sympathetic to his parents, talking about how wonderful they had been as parents and feeling sorry for what they were going to endure after the massacre took place. But I also recall another comment, one he used to justify his plans for NBK. I think he said something along the lines of his parents making some mistakes they weren't completely aware of. I wonder if this is what he was talking about? Them not taking his plans to enlist seriously or failing to acknowledge that his depression was more serious than they thought?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2013 8:31 pm

Quote :
But I wonder if these meds just exasterbated his homicidal tendencies in numbing him out

I wonder this too. The purpose of anti-depressants is to put someone in a better mood and distance them from their unhappy feelings. When that person is planning homicide though, being happier might not be a good thing. Perhaps taking a medication designed to make him feel happier only made him feel happier about the upcoming massacre, and less sad about dying.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeSat Jun 15, 2013 8:44 pm

I guess the consensus is that he wouldn't have done well in the Marines. Interesting. Rage issues aside, he seems to have been someone who thought about strategies and analyzed things before doing them. He was, after all, the one who did most of the planning for the massacre. 

I also recall friends saying Eric was very calm when he was in stressful situations. They always looked to him to bail them out. Those all seem to be qualities that might have helped him in the Marines.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeSat Jun 15, 2013 9:44 pm

If Columbine hadn't happened and Eric did become a marine than he could have excelled in certain areas such as making strategies, planning, analyzing things, etc. And other areas like following rules, being told what to do, etc would have been a challenge.

Do you remember where you saw that about Eric being calm in stressful situations?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeSat Jun 15, 2013 10:47 pm

I think it was in Cullen's book. He was referring to an incident when Eric and a few of his friends got in trouble, but Eric kept cool throughout the whole thing and convinced the adult otherwise. I don't remember which chapter, but I have the book with me so I'll try to look for it. I guess it's something he picked up from Wayne's military training.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric as a Marine   Eric as a Marine Icon_minitimeSat Jun 15, 2013 10:59 pm

I think that Eric "wanted" to be a Marine just for the violence. He would have been in trouble hadn't he committed the massacre anyway. Plus, I don't think he really wanted to be a Marine. That was just something he said to get his ass off the water so people wouldn't bother him about what he was going to do with his life. He was already planning a massacre so that was only a cover-up I think. He knew that he was going to die... the thing that was going to happen in Columbine was his choice, what he ultimately wanted to do with his life.
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