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 Basement Tape Must Sees

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PostSubject: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeSat Jun 29, 2013 10:09 pm

I think we can all agree that finally seeing the basement tapes would be wonderful. But after reading the transcript what part or scene of the basement tapes would you want to see the most? For me it would have to be the scenes where Eric discusses his family and apologizes to them for his upcoming actions, where he actually cries on camera, takes a sip of Jack Daniels and tries not to wince at the taste and where his bit sunken chest is revealed.
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeSat Jun 29, 2013 10:34 pm

I'm interested to see if they were really having as much fun as it seems.

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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeSat Jun 29, 2013 10:44 pm

I'd want to see all of them, of course. But I'd like to see this tour around Eric's bedroom, where he is showing all his hiding places. I'd like to see Dylan trying on his outfit for the day of the massacre and bitching about not wanting to go to prom and of course, Eric crying.

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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeSat Jun 29, 2013 10:48 pm

When Eric gets tearful about only having a week left to live, doesn't he realize that he doesn't actually have to go through with it all? He has the choice to live his life and stay alive.

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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeSat Jun 29, 2013 10:58 pm

That's another one. But perhaps Eric and/or Dylan wanted to back out at the last minute but decided the months of planning, preparing, building the bombs, lying and cheating, etc would have completely gone to waste and would have been for nothing. Ugh if only time travel was available!!
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeSat Jun 29, 2013 11:40 pm

StinkyOldGrapes wrote:
When Eric gets tearful about only having a week left to live, doesn't he realize that he doesn't actually have to go through with it all? He has the choice to live his life and stay alive.

Continuing with this line, at what point did this become the only choice? Logistically, they could have backed out right up until the first shot was fired. For me personally, I imagine that I would have chickened out the moment I realized the bombs weren't going off. Ditch the guns, get the bombs out, go back to normal life and continue on. No blood, no foul. But at some point, one or both of them decided that there genuinely was no other choice. Due to depression, psychopathic tendencies, whatever theory you subscribe to.

And no, I wasn't really going anywhere with this. It just makes me wonder, as do many things involving Columbine.
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeSun Jun 30, 2013 12:00 am

Oh, and of course, their goodbye message.

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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeSun Jun 30, 2013 12:26 am

Wideawake wrote:
StinkyOldGrapes wrote:
When Eric gets tearful about only having a week left to live, doesn't he realize that he doesn't actually have to go through with it all? He has the choice to live his life and stay alive.

Continuing with this line, at what point did this become the only choice? Logistically, they could have backed out right up until the first shot was fired. For me personally, I imagine that I would have chickened out the moment I realized the bombs weren't going off. Ditch the guns, get the bombs out, go back to normal life and continue on. No blood, no foul. But at some point, one or both of them decided that there genuinely was no other choice. Due to depression, psychopathic tendencies, whatever theory you subscribe to.

Even when the bombs failed, I guess that backing out may have seemed like a wimpy thing for Eric to do, but it's also plain stupid to put your pride ahead of your own life. I know E/D spent a lot of time and effort with their plan and they didn't want it to go to waste, but did they ever stop and think while they giggling and making their bombs, "Hey, we're laughing about our own deaths here... we're having a good time killing ourselves"

Sometimes I wonder why people interpret E/D as homosexual. The military style attack on Columbine has always seemed like a very heterosexual display of power to me.

What would life have been like if they packed up the bombs, went home, and tried to get on with life? I think a large part of the "closeness" E/D shared was due to their death-plan, and losing that would be a huge blow to their friendship. Would Eric still be interesting to Dylan, or would Dylan gravitate towards other friends?
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeSun Jun 30, 2013 12:30 am

Jenn wrote:
Oh, and of course, their goodbye message.

How could I have forgot that one?

People have such high expectations of the basement tapes and are dying to see them but I wonder if our expectations doesn't match up to what they are really like.
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeSun Jun 30, 2013 12:46 am

There is probably also some morbid curiosity here. What exactly does a person look like in the hours before they commit a massacre?

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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeSun Jun 30, 2013 10:16 pm

I would be very interested in seeing the last tape recorded the morning of 4/20. I think it would make for great analysis. To me in this tape Dylan comes across as very cold and careless and Eric is apologizing. I'd be interested to hear their tone of voice and see their body language etc on this tape in particular and also see if that matches up with my mental image.
As mentioned by others in this post i'd also like to see Eric's hiding places just based on my own curiosity on how he actually managed to hide all this stuff. I'd also be very interested in seeing the tape of Eric on his own. I feel this would provide a great insight into what he thought and felt away from Dylan about the massacre if in fact he was been sincere.

I noticed a few people mentioning the possibility of when they could have backed out. For me I  think they realized the bombs hadn't gone off but didn't realize they weren't going to. I don't know if this was just to reassure one another or a genuine belief but many witnesses heard either E or D talk about blowing up the school even after the bombs had failed to detonate:

Patti Blair mentions hearing one suspect say "they wanted to blow up the library" pg(299), Andrew Fair hears one shooter say to the other "...we're going to blow this fucking place up!" pg(350) and Eric's exchange with Bree Paquale "..we're going to blow up the school anyway." pg(531)

So it is a possibility they still believed the bombs would function, just later than expected. In which case in my opinion it would not have been an option to retrieve the bombs from the cafeteria once they had been placed. So I feel the only time they could have backed out was before these bombs and the diversion bomb (if we believe they planted that) had been placed. They would have been aware of the consequences for them if their bombs had gone off and injured or killed people and they had not gone through with the massacre. So I don't believe once the bombs were placed they would have thought it possible to put them back in their cars and dispose of them /take them home as they would have believed they could explode.
But it is a sad prospect to think if we believe the official timeline they could have backed out minuets before anything was placed. Before any bombs were placed they would have had time to go back to their homes and just hide everything, or been prepared with some major excuses for their parents had they found anything. I think if this had have been the case they would have had a very interesting conversation later that day, but unfortunately that didn't happen.  

I also wonder as mentioned if the tapes will be a bit of an anti climax. We know it will be a great deal of foul mouthed rants about people they hate and I assume a great deal will be edited out anyway.
If or when they are eventually are released i'd be quite interested to hear Dave Cullens take on the tapes. I'm sure it would support everything he's ever claimed *sarcasm* But seriously I'd be interested in his interpretation.

EDIT: I forgot to mention I'd also be interested in seeing the "You're Jewish?" segment as mentioned by the Browns here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I know it's a big statement to make as the Browns knew both E/D and had viewed the tapes but I just don't feel like Dylan would have thought Eric was going to turn on him. Also i'd like to hear and see if Eric does in fact say this statement the way in which Judy says he does. Obviously it is very understandable why the Browns would view the conversation in this way but I'm just not so sure. It makes it sound like Dylan was scared of Eric and despite evidence in support of this i'm still not 100% sold on the idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeSun Jun 30, 2013 10:50 pm

Great post!! I find it very hard to believe that Eric might not have known Dylan was Jewish. Dylan probably didn't care to discuss his religion very much. Although throughout the years they were good friends you would think that would have come up way before then.
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeMon Jul 01, 2013 7:08 am

I do think our - or at least my - expectations are very high! We all know why of course, it's because we haven't seen the basement tapes. We'd be making the same fuss about some of the homevideos, the cctv images in the cafeteria, pictures of the crime scene and, yes, the pictures of Eric and Dylan dead, except we've seen all of those things already. Chances are if we had been able to view the basement tapes from the get go, they'd be analyzed the same way the other material is; interesting but nothing special, after all we've all seen them a million times already.

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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeMon Jul 01, 2013 2:13 pm

I found myself thinking the same way. Even though I absolutely would want to see the basement
tapes, they probably would not explain much (except maybe a bit more insight in their mental states
or not even that). In the end, nothing will be enough to explain what they did. But:
what I don't like is information being withheld and the public being told not to be fit to
see it. So, I generally would support a release of the tapes.
For the aspect of Dylan being partly jewish and whether Eric knew it before the tapes or not: I definitely
see the possibility that Eric didn't know. Religion (at least apart from despising it altogether) doesn't seem
to have played a big role for Dylan - and very likely not for his parents as well. There were only very few
instances of practicing it, like celebrating hanukkah or passover. So, I guess it is very likely that there was
just never a real reason for Dylan mentioning it until the tapes.
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeMon Jul 01, 2013 3:14 pm

I think Eric was a rookie at neo Nazism.  Eric had other friends in school who were clearly jewish but he didn't seem to know about that at all.  Alyssa Sechler, Nick Baumgart, etc.  I think Eric didn't know about Dylan being half jewish and was really caught off guard by it in the BT.  Surprise, Eric!  A lot of people you know and relate to in school are jewish.  Including your very best friend. I guess he never thought about it since Dylan looks like a blonde viking. lolz.

Dylan, on the other hand, seemed to be in some kind of strange denial about his mixed heritage. I read in, I believe, the Jeff Kass book that Dylan, as the youngest son, annually had to partake in the the passover seder rites and had to Ask the Four Questions.  He must've had a brain fart to let slip to his Nazi loving friend:  "My parents are going to fucking Passover."What benefit could there be to say such a mindless thing without thought?   I'm guessing Dylan realized his goof and was momentarily surprised by Eric's 'ah' wut, dude??' reaction.

I would really love to see this bit.  It's one thing to read the transcripts but it's another to see their actual facial expressions and reactions to give us the full picture.
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeMon Jul 01, 2013 6:21 pm

Would also be interested to see the whole "You're Jewish" interchange. I really don't see how they could have been friends for so long and Eric not know, but even if he didn't why would it matter? Your BFF who is going to kill and die with you, so what if he's part-Jew? He talks the same neo-Nazi shit that Eric does and is obviously not too proud of his heritage so what is there to get mad about?

I wonder how much the Browns' interpretation of this section is influenced by their belief that Eric was the evil leader. And I really don't understand why the Browns got to see the tapes. Their children were not (physically) victims in the massacre, plus they were definitely a family with plenty of potential and reason to sue JeffCo. And in addition, it was clear from the beginning that they were open to the media and would share what they know. So why them? (Not a complaint, merely an observation.)


Last edited by Wideawake on Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Clarification)
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeMon Jul 01, 2013 6:45 pm

I read somewhere that the Browns only saw the Basement Tapes because they forced their way in, or at least got in without permission. I can't quote you a source at the moment, but I know I read it somewhere. study 

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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeMon Jul 01, 2013 6:57 pm

Wideawake wrote:
Would also be interested to see the whole "You're Jewish" interchange. I really don't see how they could have been friends for so long and Eric not know, but even if he didn't why would it matter? Your BFF who is going to kill and die with you, so what if he's part-Jew? He talks the same neo-Nazi shit that Eric does and is obviously not too proud of his heritage so what is there to get mad about?

I wonder how much the Browns' interpretation of this section is influenced by their belief that Eric was the evil leader. And I really don't understand why the Browns got to see the tapes. Their children were not (physically) victims in the massacre, plus they were definitely a family with plenty of potential and reason to sue JeffCo. And in addition, it was clear from the beginning that they were open to the media and would share what they know. So why them? (Not a complaint, merely an observation.)

I think there is probably a lot of personal things that Eric and Dylan probably didn't even broach as friends.  I speculate their relationship was more about doing things together, exorcising their hate and ways to do various activities that would channel that hate energy.  Be it playing Doom and mastering/focusing their fate in fantasy setting, talking about people they hated in school and what they want to do with them, doing Rebel Missions, talking about guns they both wanted, going to flicks that focused on guns and power, and of course, planning NBK.   It was about doing stuff together and empowering one another.  In between that, Dylan knew Eric loved his dog so would work a double shift at Blackjacks to help his friend that way. But to talk about family religion?  eh. Not so much.   I don't think Dylan would offer up knowlege about his parents religion and I don't think Eric would inquire in return. Sort of a 'don't ask; don't tell' type thing.  Eric would just assume that if Dylan was on board with the Nazisms that he wasn't jewish.  I think Dylan and Zach probably knew more about each other on a personal level as they talked nightly by phone and discussed their depression and personal issues.  

I don't think Eric got "mad about" it when Dylan dropped the J bomb on the BT.  I think he was just sort of..stunned on camera. Like he hadn't considered this before.  And let's face it, at the point, as much as they'd been through together as friends and had planned NBK together, Eric wasn't about to ditch Dylan and go solo over his jewish heritage.   I don't think Eric was really even focused on that aspect of the Nazis, anyway.  Eric seemed to like the warlike romanticism the Nazi engendered.  The power the name and it's symbols wield.  The shock value elicited when other students noticed when he had a swastika drawn on his backpack.  I think that was about the extent of his..their fascination.   Just another way to try to exert more fear and power over peers and keep everyone guessing.

I think the reason the Brown's got to see the BT is simply because of..Judy Brown.  Jeffco dropped the ball; Columbine could've been easily prevented and so they demanded to see the BT and got to.


Last edited by InFiNiNcEX5 on Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeMon Jul 01, 2013 8:56 pm

I also wonder if part of what stunned Eric when Dylan said he was Jewish is that Eric knew other people were going to see these video tapes after his death (maybe even the whole world would see them). Eric's journals were full of Nazism and his best friend was Jewish... maybe Eric was stunned, wondering what the world was going to think of that.

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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeTue Jul 09, 2013 12:51 am

Someone should just break into whatever HQ they're in one day and take them.

Honestly, who cares? It's almost been 20 years since the damn thing happened. Both E/D's parents are almost in their 70's, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeTue Jul 09, 2013 12:56 am

I'd like to see that mysterious 'Nixon' tape police found at the Harris home. Cullen mentions police confiscated it, but I don't think he ever revealed what was in it. I think it was probably Eric leaving a personal goodbye to his parents/brother. If such a video exists, I'd really like to see it.
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeTue Jul 09, 2013 1:06 am

snegopady wrote:
I'd like to see that mysterious 'Nixon' tape police found at the Harris home. Cullen mentions police confiscated it, but I don't think he ever revealed what was in it. I think it was probably Eric leaving a personal goodbye to his parents/brother. If such a video exists, I'd really like to see it.

The Nixon tape is allegedly an audio tape (a microcassette tape). It's been said that Eric had to interview an Asian man who was called Nixon for one of his school projects, and he recorded over it late at night/early in the morning of April 20, 1999, discussing what he was going to be doing, and that people were going to die because of him.
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeTue Jul 09, 2013 1:10 am

-eulogy- wrote:
Someone should just break into whatever HQ they're in one day and take them.

Honestly, who cares? It's almost been 20 years since the damn thing happened. Both E/D's parents are almost in their 70's, etc.

Is it sad that this has actually crossed my mind? Lol, I don't even know how I would explain it to my family and friends if I got caught. And it's not like I'm some international jewel thief or something. I would definitely get caught.

I truly don't understand how they have not been leaked though. At least portions of them. There are plenty of people and media outlets that would pay out big bucks to get a copy, and clearly there have been many people who have had limited access to them over the years. I believe it was on the old board that someone suggested we should get someone to go to work for JeffCo with the primary intention of getting access to the tapes...anybody need a new career?
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PostSubject: Re: Basement Tape Must Sees   Basement Tape Must Sees Icon_minitimeTue Jul 09, 2013 1:30 am

-eulogy- wrote:
Someone should just break into whatever HQ they're in one day and take them.

Honestly, who cares? It's almost been 20 years since the damn thing happened. Both E/D's parents are almost in their 70's, etc.

I think that's part of the problem. Nobody cares these days about Columbine. Fourteen years have gone by and people are willing to leave the past in the past.  This is what Jeffco was hoping would happen - that the public would have short term memory. It's pretty sad when you consider that school, mall, theater shootings are still consistently happening - hell, Sandy Hook last December - yet no one seems interested in re-investing/pursuing the grand daddy case of it all.  The majority of the pubic is content with what the media fed them and the case is for the most part.. dead.  Except to us die hards here.  Look at Oprah in 2009.  She stopped her anniversary show from airing and mysteriously slapped on a lame excuse "it focused too much on the shooters."  Well, sorry, Oprah, understanding the shooters is the KEY to understanding and prevention.  Avoidance is part of the problem.

The next school shooter that worships E & D ought to make themselves more useful by stealing and releasing the tapes of their "gods" before going on their HS spree.

Whoopsie!   Can't believe that just came out of my head.  Evil or Very Mad
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