Died for nothing?

I don't think Eric and Dylan died for nothing, or in vain. I know this may sound bad, but they did teach us one valuable lesson, and this rings true for many people who have been picked on in high school such as myself. If you push and torment hard enough, they just may snap and kill you.

I know my opinion may not be the most popular, but I thank E/D for teaching us this even though bullying might still happen today anyways.

-eulogy- wrote:

I don't think Eric and Dylan died for nothing, or in vain. I know this may sound bad, but they did teach us one valuable lesson, and this rings true for many people who have been picked on in high school such as myself. If you push and torment hard enough, they just may snap and kill you.

I know my opinion may not be the most popular, but I thank E/D for teaching us this even though bullying might still happen today anyways.

I think Eric was a violent individual and would have entertained homicidal fantasies regardless of how he was treated at school. I think his low social status then gave him his justification to act on those fantasies because he no longer gave a shit about people who didn't give a shit about him.

I think mass murder was Eric's life dream and it became Dylan's also, so I don't think they died in vain -they died living out their dreams.

The lesson that I take away from Columbine is: Human beings can and do enjoy violence, it's not pathological, and I think we should own up to that legacy.

These just my opinions. I'm sure others see it differently.

I think overall Columbine had more good come out of it than bad. (which probably isn't what Eric and Dylan were going for.) Now Columbine is an amazing school, with a crazy amazing community. Columbine is constantly doing service projects, and always offering help to other communities who have been through similar tragedies as they have. Plus the massacre definitely brought a community together and gave a new outlook on how easy it is to go to school and not come home. Also the importance of respect in a school environment. If you look at it the right way, the massacre had so many positive impacts all around Colorado and the rest of the world, but we mostly choose to ignore the good things.

As for Eric and Dylan themselves, I agree that they got what they wanted, they died doing what they had always wanted to do.  Now 14 years later, we still are connecting and learning because of Columbine. Overall it was something that needed to, and was going to happen sooner or later.

Columboner wrote:

I think overall Columbine had more good come out of it than bad. (which probably isn't what Eric and Dylan were going for.) Now Columbine is an amazing school, with a crazy amazing community. Columbine is constantly doing service projects, and always offering help to other communities who have been through similar tragedies as they have. Plus the massacre definitely brought a community together and gave a new outlook on how easy it is to go to school and not come home. Also the importance of respect in a school environment. If you look at it the right way, the massacre had so many positive impacts all around Colorado and the rest of the world, but we mostly choose to ignore the good things.

As for Eric and Dylan themselves, I agree that they got what they wanted, they died doing what they had always wanted to do.  Now 14 years later, we still are connecting and learning because of Columbine. Overall it was something that needed to, and was going to happen sooner or later.

Since existence has known, the 'fight' between good & evil has continued.  Obviously, this fight can never end.
Good things turn bad, bad things become good, the 'people' on the earth see it as a battle they can win.
HA fuckin morons. If people looked at History they would see what happens.

Fourteen years later the there has been good reaped from the bad happening. Columbine was a wake up call, a huge ripple on a pond. D & E literally made a huge destructive dent in society. Eventually, there's been a shift of awareness in the school system and a glimmer with students. It's most definitely not a solved problem but awareness is always a good thing.  I work as part of a 'School Safety and Wellness Program' and the topic of bullying and school crisis response and safety is the number one priority these days.  Of course, until society is able to look at the monster/s instead of away from them in contempt and distance, the Columbine effect will continue to echoe on. As Dylan would say, it's all there in the history repeating itself.

Columboner and InFiNiNcEX5, if you both feel that a lot of good has come out of Columbine, how do you feel about the shooters who claim E/D are their inspiration/heroes? Do you think overall there has been more good than bad come out of Columbine?

Well since I don't think it's okay to kill people, I don't approve of anyone who commits a massacre. Even if good comes out of killing people, I don't think it's an excuse to go out and take it into your own hands. I think overall more good than bad has come out of columbine. When you look at the Aurora massacre, now there I think no good has come out of that. Not only is he super blown up and idolized in forms of media, the community didn't become any closer,and In the mental health department everyone in that massacre got fucked over by Aurora Mental Health. Columbine was unique situation, not that much good comes out tragedies like that. But somehow Columbine had a different effect. Hopefully that makes sense :/

Columboner wrote:

Well since I don't think it's okay to kill people, I don't approve of anyone who commits a massacre. Even if good comes out of killing people, I don't think it's an excuse to go out and take it into your own hands. I think overall more good than bad has come out of columbine. When you look at the Aurora massacre, now there I think no good has come out of that. Not only is he super blown up and idolized in forms of media, the community didn't become any closer,and In the mental health department everyone in that massacre got fucked over by Aurora Mental Health. Columbine was unique situation, not that much good comes out tragedies like that. But somehow Columbine had a different effect. Hopefully that makes sense :/

Thanks for that reply

I get what you are saying is that even though E/D's attack wasn't acceptable, you believe it's spawned more positivity than negativity.

In my opinion, Eric and Dylan just pissed their lives away, along with their victims. Really no need there! Lessons or no lessons...

tragedy79, I agree. I think Eric and Dylan would say they didn't die for nothing, they died so they could end 13 lives (14, if Eric/Dylan included himself), cause untold havoc, fear, terror and pain, not only on 04/20 but for years afterwards. They died so they could go through with what they had planned and dreamed of for a year.

But in reality, from a sane perspective, yes they died for nothing. They wasted what could have been two exceptionally fruitful, successful lives and ended 13 more of the same. It's not as if from my knowledge mental health care is all that more superior to what it was, or that bullying is significantly reduced at Columbine High, or anywhere else for that matter. Gun laws have been passed in the state of Colorado but that was because of Newtown, not Columbine.

There have been no armies rising up out of the ether to continue Reb and Vodka's apocalypse (no, the odd school shooter who claims they were "inspired" by them is most certainly not what they imagined/hoped). Their "followers" are people on Tumblr who, thankfully, find making gifs and photo montages more rewarding than storming their schools and places of work with guns and bombs.

I understand that some positives may have come out of the massacre, but I don't think they outweigh the deaths of 15 people and the ruining of countless others. It's one thing to ask E&D if they personally died for nothing ("Of course we didn't - we got to do what we always wanted to do!") and how society feels about their deaths, specifically their families and friends, who would say yes they did, and it's a very, very sad, tragic situation, in my opinion.

Kinney wrote:

tragedy79, I agree. I think Eric and Dylan would say they didn't die for nothing, they died so they could end 13 lives (14, if Eric/Dylan included himself), cause untold havoc, fear, terror and pain, not only on 04/20 but for years afterwards. They died so they could go through with what they had planned and dreamed of for a year.

But in reality, from a sane perspective, yes they died for nothing. They wasted what could have been two exceptionally fruitful, successful lives and ended 13 more of the same. It's not as if from my knowledge mental health care is all that more superior to what it was, or that bullying is significantly reduced at Columbine High, or anywhere else for that matter. Gun laws have been passed in the state of Colorado but that was because of Newtown, not Columbine.

There have been no armies rising up out of the ether to continue Reb and Vodka's apocalypse (no, the odd school shooter who claims they were "inspired" by them is most certainly not what they imagined/hoped). Their "followers" are people on Tumblr who, thankfully, find making gifs and photo montages more rewarding than storming their schools and places of work with guns and bombs.  

I understand that some positives may have come out of the massacre, but I don't think they outweigh the deaths of 15 people and the ruining of countless others. It's one thing to ask E&D if they personally died for nothing ("Of course we didn't - we got to do what we always wanted to do!") and how society feels about their deaths, specifically their families and friends, who would say yes they did, and it's a very, very sad, tragic situation, in my opinion.

I guess it depends on what E/D desired. I've heard people spend 12 hours on a video game and say the time wasn't wasted because they were doing something they enjoyed. I can't imagine that a 45 minute rampage would be so awesome that it's worth dying for, but maybe E/D thought that getting a job, having a family, and paying off a house weren't that awesome either.

I also think they died thinking they killed more people than they actually did, so I guess that possibly affects how they'd feel whether it was worth it or not.

I think that the boys believed they died for whatever image of destruction was in their minds at the time of the massacre. At the same time, I wonder if there were regrets or frustrations when not many things went as they'd originally planned for that day. Was it really all they had imagined it would be? They wasted their own lives and the lives of too many other people caught in the crossfire for.. well.. for what? So we could sit here, fourteen years later, and still have the same news making the front pages and still have our loved ones torn away from us by other shooters? So they could have fangirls flailing away at the mere mention of them? So they could have a few people they probably would shake their heads at following in their footsteps?

Very, very few things have changed since Columbine. The system both boys abhorred is still in place. The mental health and the education departments are still trailing after random breadcrumbs instead of taking the bull by the horns. Gun laws from the US still sound absolutely strange to my Dutch ears. The community in Littleton itself may have changed for the better, I don't know, but fact is that there's still too much misinformation out there on what exactly created 4/20/99. The general public hasn't learned. People still hear what they want to hear and turn a deaf ear to everyone crying out for help. As long as we don't educate ourselves and others and visibly implement changes for the better, I'm going to sit here and assume that everybody died for nothing.

I don't believe that E/D were attempting to change anything with their deaths. I think they stumbled upon a dark human truth -power feels awesome, and sometimes that power can come from heartless violence.

The population at Columbine had numerous opportunities to treat E&D with respect, but they wasted all of them. They had all of 97', 98' and even half of 99' but they treated them like shit instead. So screw em'. They deserved all they got in my opinion. Reading about how the jocks got special privileges and teachers looking the other way when people got bullied just makes me more angry.

Apparently E/D got bullied by certain teachers as well. So I don't really have much sympathy for the Columbine community. E/D were products of that and they taught everyone a lesson about bullying.

Do you all think that most people who simply commit suicide die for nothing ?

-eulogy- wrote:

The population at Columbine had numerous opportunities to treat E&D with respect, but they wasted all of them. They had all of 97', 98' and even half of 99' but they treated them like shit instead. So screw em'. They deserved all they got in my opinion. Reading about how the jocks got special privileges and teachers looking the other way when people got bullied just makes me more angry.

Apparently E/D got bullied by certain teachers as well. So I don't really have much sympathy for the Columbine community. E/D were products of that and they taught everyone a lesson about bullying.

Why punish many people for the sins of a few?

sergeant hartman wrote:

-eulogy- wrote:

The population at Columbine had numerous opportunities to treat E&D with respect, but they wasted all of them. They had all of 97', 98' and even half of 99' but they treated them like shit instead. So screw em'. They deserved all they got in my opinion. Reading about how the jocks got special privileges and teachers looking the other way when people got bullied just makes me more angry.

Apparently E/D got bullied by certain teachers as well. So I don't really have much sympathy for the Columbine community. E/D were products of that and they taught everyone a lesson about bullying.

Why punish many people for the sins of a few?

Sins of a FEW? Really?

The whole school treated them like shit. They were considered at the Bottom of the totem pole socially. Until you know what that's like, to have a whole school section consider you to be at the BOTTOM, there's no reason to say anything more. I can totally understand why they did what they did. Especially in such a Christian/Right-wing/Sports driven, suppressive environment. Eric and Dylan were far to smart and superior for that environment and exploded due to all the stupidity and harassment they were exposed to and one day said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and we know the rest of the damn tale......

-eulogy- wrote:

sergeant hartman wrote:

-eulogy- wrote:

The population at Columbine had numerous opportunities to treat E&D with respect, but they wasted all of them. They had all of 97', 98' and even half of 99' but they treated them like shit instead. So screw em'. They deserved all they got in my opinion. Reading about how the jocks got special privileges and teachers looking the other way when people got bullied just makes me more angry.

Apparently E/D got bullied by certain teachers as well. So I don't really have much sympathy for the Columbine community. E/D were products of that and they taught everyone a lesson about bullying.

Why punish many people for the sins of a few?

Sins of a FEW? Really?

The whole school treated them like shit. They were considered at the Bottom of the totem pole socially. Until you know what that's like, to have a whole school section consider you to be at the BOTTOM, there's no reason to say anything more. I can totally understand why they did what they did. Especially in such a Christian/Right-wing/Sports driven, suppressive environment. Eric and Dylan were far to smart and superior for that environment and exploded due to all the stupidity and harassment they were exposed to and one day said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and we know the rest of the damn tale......

Most of the school didn't even know who they were.

sergeant hartman wrote:

-eulogy- wrote:

sergeant hartman wrote:

-eulogy- wrote:

The population at Columbine had numerous opportunities to treat E&D with respect, but they wasted all of them. They had all of 97', 98' and even half of 99' but they treated them like shit instead. So screw em'. They deserved all they got in my opinion. Reading about how the jocks got special privileges and teachers looking the other way when people got bullied just makes me more angry.

Apparently E/D got bullied by certain teachers as well. So I don't really have much sympathy for the Columbine community. E/D were products of that and they taught everyone a lesson about bullying.

Why punish many people for the sins of a few?

Sins of a FEW? Really?

The whole school treated them like shit. They were considered at the Bottom of the totem pole socially. Until you know what that's like, to have a whole school section consider you to be at the BOTTOM, there's no reason to say anything more. I can totally understand why they did what they did. Especially in such a Christian/Right-wing/Sports driven, suppressive environment. Eric and Dylan were far to smart and superior for that environment and exploded due to all the stupidity and harassment they were exposed to and one day said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and we know the rest of the damn tale......

Most of the school didn't even know who they were.

I don't think you understand. There are only 4 grades and we all know the 11's and 12's knew who they and the TCM were and treated them like shit. Just read some of the transcripts and stories. Brooks Brown knows how bad it was. They also had run-in's with several grade 10's. Maybe the grade 9's have some leeway, but most of the school DID infact know who they and the "outcasts" were and treated them poorly.

-eulogy- wrote:

I don't think you understand. There are only 4 grades and we all know the 11's and 12's knew who they and the TCM were and treated them like shit.

First of all, this only accounts for 2 grades and not 4.  Second, I've read the Columbine Report, and most kids didn't know who E+D were or only knew them in passing.

Quote :

Just read some of the transcripts and stories. Brooks Brown knows how bad it was. They also had run-in's with several grade 10's. Maybe the grade 9's have some leeway, but most of the school DID infact know who they and the "outcasts" were and treated them poorly.

Yes, I've read what Brooks had to say about how they lost their minds and killed kids who did nothing to them.

sergeant hartman, the general consensus is that E/D had a low social status in their school. My personal belief is that the average high school teenagers are nasty little shits and deserve a good kick in the head for how they treat others. They probably don't deserve death.

I think many of E/D's victims were aware of E/D's low social status and didn't care -they were indifferent to them. Indifference isn't a crime punishable by death though.

It's obvious E/D were attacking the social structure, rather than individual people. But if they wanted to use a terrorist attack to make a point, it's also true they could have picked a more deserving target.

The Columbine debate isn't about whether or not E/D's attack is justified from a "revenge" point of view. As an act of revenge, it's unjustifiable.

E/D enjoyed the idea of shooting people. Their outcast status justified, in their eyes, an urge that was already present beforehand.

Having an urge to kill isn't justification for real life killing, but as human beings have no moral compass to guide them except their own enjoyment, there was no other way E/D could have acted.

Some people may believe they died for nothing


But Eric/Dylan did what they wanted to do, even if it wasn't as big as they planned.


They left a lasting impression on the world and will never be forgotten

In a way they did die for nothing. They gave up their future to prevent innocent children from having one as well. That's just not worth it to any normal same individual.

When you take into account their goals they actually did accomplish what they had hoped for. Eric and Dylan are two of the most famous rampage killers in history. They're actions went on to inspire the two deadliest school shootings in US history: V-Tech and Sandy Hook. They even inspired multiple films like they predicted. Even though Erics bombs failed and they only killed 13 they still left a HUGE imprint on American culture. Most importantly though is that we learned from their actions. For all we know there may have been more shootings by now without Columbine. A lot of incidents have been prevented because teachers and parents finally saw what their children are capable of when they're mentally ill or bullied.

Guest wrote:

sergeant hartman wrote:

-eulogy- wrote:

The population at Columbine had numerous opportunities to treat E&D with respect, but they wasted all of them. They had all of 97', 98' and even half of 99' but they treated them like shit instead. So screw em'. They deserved all they got in my opinion. Reading about how the jocks got special privileges and teachers looking the other way when people got bullied just makes me more angry.

Apparently E/D got bullied by certain teachers as well. So I don't really have much sympathy for the Columbine community. E/D were products of that and they taught everyone a lesson about bullying.

Why punish many people for the sins of a few?

Sins of a FEW? Really?

The whole school treated them like shit. They were considered at the Bottom of the totem pole socially. Until you know what that's like, to have a whole school section consider you to be at the BOTTOM, there's no reason to say anything more. I can totally understand why they did what they did. Especially in such a Christian/Right-wing/Sports driven, suppressive environment. Eric and Dylan were far to smart and superior for that environment and exploded due to all the stupidity and harassment they were exposed to and one day said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and we know the rest of the damn tale......

They were cowards and if it was really that bad they could've talked to someone instead of shooting innocent people. They really weren't all that smart if they didn't go and talk to people about it, like their parents or someone who could help- like other people do when they get bullied. They were cowards who couldn't handle life and decided to take it out on others, bottom line.

They had a huge, lasting impact on the world, they didn't die for nothing.

They sacrificed a lot, yes, but it was worth it to them. They didn't want to live.