Speculation Time

I was thinking today about the evidence we don't have and things that are redacted and sealed etc..What don't we have and how would it affect our view on the case, E&D, their parents, JeffCo, the school....

The big one, the Basement Tapes. Say they took out the bomb making info and bleeped out or removed the people they talked badly about, what else is in it that we can't see? Would it be SO bad? I imagine it would dispel a lot of the allure of "E and D being bad ass and godlike" no they were dorks ranting and raving about crap.

What do we think the school covered up?

Why are the depositions being held for so long, even though the victims families even have said "release them we want to talk about what we heard from the Klebold's and Harris's"

I'll always be baffled by the principal's PR. Had this happened where I live, he would have been hanged, drawn and quartered for letting this happen under his watch.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I imagine it would dispel a lot of the allure of "E and D being bad ass and godlike" no they were dorks ranting and raving about crap.

Considering the fact that even Randy Stair, who was a transsexual brony who committed his murder spree in order to be with his ghost waifu, has fans, I think that anyone who wants to idolize Eric and Dylan will continue to do so no matter what.

I think no matter how much you redact from TBT, it would not matter. There were several reasons they chose not to release them. From my understanding, most of all they just didn't want kids to have more of a blueprint or something to emulate. Even though we are told by people that they seemed more immature and posturing than intimidating, younger "fans" may not have seen them that way.

Edit: but to tie this into your point more, I do think it could change our view on Columbine, specifically E&D's behavior and personalities (for those of us that aren't "fans" of them)

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I imagine it would dispel a lot of the allure of "E and D being bad ass and godlike" no they were dorks ranting and raving about crap.

Considering the fact that even Randy Stair, who was a transsexual brony who committed his murder spree in order to be with his ghost waifu, has fans, I think that anyone who wants to idolize Eric and Dylan will continue to do so no matter what.

To true.

Good point about Randy Stair. He obsessed over their suicide photo....the one piece of evidence that (to me) would be the most hard to stomach and did not show E&D as strong, intimidating, or triumphant. To someone like Randy, reality was already skewed. You can't anticipate what to redact and what to release unless you can think like them.

Screamingophelia wrote:

 I imagine it would dispel a lot of the allure of "E and D being bad ass and godlike" no they were dorks ranting and raving about crap.

I think this is exactly what they are afraid of. People realizing that Eric and Dylan just were dorks with twisted minds and that people are capable of doing horrible things without having a specific kind of personality which allows it.

Maybe that is also why they say Eric is a psychopath and Dylan was a depressed follower.

I dont like oversimplifying things like that, but it is true that to quickly judge them as people who are disturbed in many ways contributes to a view of killers as a specific type of unhuman beings that you have to go through various steps to become. This belief can make angry little teenagors surpress their excessive feelings until they are old enough to understand what to do with them (therapy), and by that time they will need lots of it.

Sad but true, I think that is the reason.

munchkinphone wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

 I imagine it would dispel a lot of the allure of "E and D being bad ass and godlike" no they were dorks ranting and raving about crap.

I think this is exactly what they are afraid of. People realizing that Eric and Dylan just were dorks with twisted minds and that people are capable of doing horrible things without having a specific kind of personality which allows it.

Maybe that is also why they say Eric is a psychopath and Dylan was a depressed follower.

I dont like oversimplifying things like that, but it is true that to quickly judge them as people who are disturbed in many ways contributes to a view of killers as a specific type of unhuman beings that you have to go through various steps to become. This belief can make angry little teenagors surpress their excessive feelings until they are old enough to understand what to do with them (therapy), and by that time they will need lots of it.

Sad but true, I think that is the reason.

I agree. I can't really add anything right now

TBT would likely be a disappointment IMO--two kids in a basement talking shit. I thought it was already widely known that nobody they were talking shit about died on 4/20/99.

Nobody should think E&D were godlike or badass to begin with. There's nothing godlike about shooting unarmed people.

I agree, the tapes would take a lot of the mystery out of Columbine and show E&D for who they truly were.

Interesting to note- though no one mentioned on the tapes may have been a victim on 4/20, I read in the 11k that one of the people found on a hit list was a library survivor.

I feel like the only reason I want to see the tapes is to analyse the bodylanguage between Eric and Dylan to understand their relationship better.

Even a mute video would do, though tone of voice can tell alot about a person as well. Hmm..

Especially the tone of voice when the whole Jewish thing came up.

Here's a funny question, maybe I should make a poll, Would you rather have the full audio of the basementtapes or the video on mute?

munchkinphone wrote:

I feel like the only reason I want to see the tapes is to analyse the bodylanguage between Eric and Dylan to understand their relationship better.

Even a mute video would do, though tone of voice can tell alot about a person as well. Hmm..

Especially the tone of voice when the whole Jewish thing came up.

Here's a funny question, maybe I should make a poll, Would you rather have the full audio of the basementtapes or the video on mute?

I agree, I want to see the whole Jewish thing because both Sue and Judy say Eric becomes angry and Dylan looks scared. I assume there's more to it then that.

That is a good question.. maybe video on mute, because at least you can also see their facial expressions.

Screamingophelia wrote:

munchkinphone wrote:

I feel like the only reason I want to see the tapes is to analyse the bodylanguage between Eric and Dylan to understand their relationship better.

Even a mute video would do, though tone of voice can tell alot about a person as well. Hmm..

Especially the tone of voice when the whole Jewish thing came up.

Here's a funny question, maybe I should make a poll, Would you rather have the full audio of the basementtapes or the video on mute?

I agree, I want to see the whole Jewish thing because both Sue and Judy say Eric becomes angry and Dylan looks scared. I assume there's more to it then that.

That is a good question.. maybe video on mute, because at least you can also see their facial expressions.

Yes, also I want to know how much they were facing the camera versus each other and how close. In what videos they are excited and in what videos they are more relaxed. But if you think about how shitty their cameras were.. man I dont know..

The Jewish thing is something I am very interested in seeing. Eric drew a damn swastika in Dylan's yearbook, he was pretty open about his hatred in that regard.

Littlelo wrote:

The Jewish thing is something I am very interested in seeing. Eric drew a damn swastika in Dylan's yearbook, he was pretty open about his hatred in that regard.

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Also I think the person who made this is a member of the forum. So if you see this all credit goes to you!

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

The Jewish thing is something I am very interested in seeing. Eric drew a damn swastika in Dylan's yearbook, he was pretty open about his hatred in that regard.

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Also I think the person who made this is a member of the forum. So if you see this all credit goes to you!

I would have loved to hear the opinion of an unbiased person. Judy already hates Eric and Sue is Dylan's mom so they are going to see that moment as a "poor Dylan, he's afraid, why couldn't he just leave. Damn Eric"

Omgggg lol

I agree - an unbiased opinion would be good.

(My main reason is to doubt how authentic of a nazi Eric was is the fact he didn't notice Dylan's obvious jewish heritage. Save for the blue eyes and light hair, he could have been a poster-child of jew boys)

As for the basement tapes, it is true that school shooters mimic Eric and Dylan constantly. I remember recently someone here on the forums linked a Ted talk of this professor who said E&D basically became the forefathers of all school shooters after them, and I kinda-sorta-little bit agree there.

And I think that's a good thing, because E&D were pretty dumb. A large reason why shootings in schools are thwarted lately is because these youth mimic them, making them blatantly easy to predict and get busted early.

- Trench coat because E&D wore them: it's not like people in school will notice.
- Hiding the stash of ammo and weapons in your own room because Eric did it - your parents would surely never find them.
- Writing everything down in an actual paper diary (that can be also conveniently found by your parents) because E&D did that - no way your detailed descriptions of a planned massacre would ever rouse suspicion, I mean, why would it.
- Taking pictures of yourself posing with firearms, or downright video manifestos because E&D did that - no way anyone has a chance of finding that before your little "judgement day", don't worry... But even if they would, who would ever doubt your good intentions?

I wish we would have a Kappa emoji on here  

E&D were crooks and they didn't mean this little inch for us, but credit where credit is due. They made it a little bit easier to spot those who need to be spotted.

Very good points about E&D's precedents. Anyone who uses what they did as a guide is exponentially increasing their chances of failing or getting caught. They certainly were not masterminds.

Holloka wrote:

- Trench coat because E&D wore them: it's not like people in school will notice.
- Hiding the stash of ammo and weapons in your own room because Eric did it - your parents would surely never find them.
- Writing everything down in an actual paper diary (that can be also conveniently found by your parents) because E&D did that - no way your detailed descriptions of a planned massacre would ever rouse suspicion, I mean, why would it.
- Taking pictures of yourself posing with firearms, or downright video manifestos because E&D did that - no way anyone has a chance of finding that before your little "judgement day", don't worry... But even if they would, who would ever doubt your good intentions?

Don't forget
- Trying to find a partner for your rampage, because it's not like you could be reported by someone who isn't into mass murder.
- Making bombs, which require a great deal of expertise and care to perfect and create, which you'll totally be able to pull off - all while attracting no suspicion to yourself of course.

Now that being said, an alarmingly large number of plots were foiled only because the would be shooter(s) made a simple mistake or one person recognized a threat as a threat and not a joke or prank.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] As could have easily happened with Columbine. It's crazy how many pieces there were that just didn't come together in time.