Why I believe Dylan/Eric would have become a mass murderer anyway

Dylan came up with the plan of "NBK" himself. All on his own. If he was left alone to stew in his own thoughts for years I think he would have eventually shot up a college or workplace. Some people are born bad and Dylan is one of those examples. Coddling him and acting like he was a sweet innocent angel because he smiled for a few photos when he was 12 or something doesn't do it for me.

On the other hand I could easily see Eric doing this on his own too. He had the motivation and drive to replicate the Oklahoma City Bombings if he were given the chance to grow into the man he should have become. He failed because at the end of the day he was only a kid - like he wrote in his journal.

Give Eric the chance and years Timothy McVeigh had on this Earth and he would have done something equally wicked and devastating, beyond even the carnage at Columbine.  

The thoughts that consumed Eric and Dylan's minds would only continue to fester over time. They wouldn't go away just because they left highschool. That truly would have only been the beginning - setting the framework for what their lives would've become.

I have always said that Eric and Dylan had little to no chance of getting better without intensive  treatments, a mix of therapy and possibly the right meds. But I agree that merely graduating wouldn't have cured their problems and issues.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I have always said that Eric and Dylan had little to no chance of getting better without intensive  treatments, a mix of therapy and possibly the right meds. But I agree that merely graduating wouldn't have cured their problems and issues.

I don't think psychotherapy or medication would have worked. Look at what medication did to Eric - if anything it increased his appetite for destruction. In my opinion there was no saving either of them.

I think Dylan's spirit wasn't meant for this world, thus that being the reason why for the majority of his life, he was in emotional and mental pain and I think Eric should have never been moved to Colorado.

I've only been to the U.S. four times, twice to Colorado and there's something about Colorado that I just don't like. The scenery of the state is beautiful, but there's an eerie, spooky feeling there, that just makes me uneasy.

Ivan wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I have always said that Eric and Dylan had little to no chance of getting better without intensive  treatments, a mix of therapy and possibly the right meds. But I agree that merely graduating wouldn't have cured their problems and issues.

I don't think psychotherapy or medication would have worked. Look at what medication did to Eric - if anything it increased his appetite for destruction. In my opinion there was no saving either of them.

I do agree that it is possible the meds had the opposite effect, instead making Eric focus more on his anger then helping him see past it.

Although I just can't make myself believe that either were complete lost causes.

42099_4EVA wrote:

I think Dylan's spirit wasn't meant for this world, thus that being the reason why for the majority of his life, he was in emotional and mental pain and I think Eric should have never been moved to Colorado.

I've only been to the U.S. four times, twice to Colorado and there's something about Colorado that I just don't like. The scenery of the state is beautiful, but there's an eerie, spooky feeling there, that just makes me uneasy.

I find that interesting, since I just got back from Colorado and I spent some time in Littleton for hiking and going to the memorial. I found it so peaceful but I was thinking of all the chaos surrounding the area and how it was so unaccepting etc.. it was an interesting contrast.

Well different strokes for different folks I guess, for me, there's beauty in Colorado but there's a lot of creepiness there as well.

I'm not sure if they would've still become mass murderers, but their risk for suicide is high.

Agreed [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], maybe there were alternate realities where they didn't kill anyone, but I think it was at least likely (especially for Dylan) that without help they would have killed themselves.

42099_4EVA wrote:

Well different strokes for different folks.

Nice to know someone else has heard similar older sayings and still use them.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

42099_4EVA wrote:

Well different strokes for different folks.

Nice to know someone else has heard similar older sayings and still use them.

Well yeah because you see, ♫ the world don't move to the beat of just one drum, what might be right for you, may not be right for some...♫

42099_4EVA wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

42099_4EVA wrote:

Well different strokes for different folks.

Nice to know someone else has heard similar older sayings and still use them.

Well yeah because you see, ♫ the world don't move to the beat of just one drum, what might be right for you, may not be right for some...♫  

I like the cut of both of your jibs.

QuestionMark wrote:

I'm not sure if they would've still become mass murderers, but their risk for suicide is high.

I think it's almost a foregone conclusion in my mind.

If a kid at 17 shoots up his school what's he going to be like at 34?

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Ivan wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I have always said that Eric and Dylan had little to no chance of getting better without intensive  treatments, a mix of therapy and possibly the right meds. But I agree that merely graduating wouldn't have cured their problems and issues.

I don't think psychotherapy or medication would have worked. Look at what medication did to Eric - if anything it increased his appetite for destruction. In my opinion there was no saving either of them.

I do agree that it is possible the meds had the opposite effect, instead making Eric focus more on his anger then helping him see past it.

Although I just can't make myself believe that either were complete lost causes.

I just don't see how they are going to have a great life if they're planning murder at 16 and 17 years of age.

Ivan wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Ivan wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I have always said that Eric and Dylan had little to no chance of getting better without intensive  treatments, a mix of therapy and possibly the right meds. But I agree that merely graduating wouldn't have cured their problems and issues.

I don't think psychotherapy or medication would have worked. Look at what medication did to Eric - if anything it increased his appetite for destruction. In my opinion there was no saving either of them.

I do agree that it is possible the meds had the opposite effect, instead making Eric focus more on his anger then helping him see past it.

Although I just can't make myself believe that either were complete lost causes.

I just don't see how they are going to have a great life if they're planning murder at 16 and 17 years of age.

I in no way think their lives would have been all peachy keen in the least if they hadn't went through with NBK. I feel both had some serious mental issues, personality disorders, etc. Their lives likely would have been rough like so many who suffer the same issues. I doubt there is a teen in a certain age range or an adult today that hasn't thought about suicide or had some type of homicidal thoughts somewhere along the way.
 
Would they have been able to over come their problems and be productive members of society? That I can't say, BUT I will say both Eric and Dylan were smart, they had potential.  I don't think its a huge stretch to picture either one being a successful computer programmer, or a game designer, or anything related to those fields. Perhaps Eric would have been called up to serve in the Military following 9/11.  Who knows? Maybe that would have given his something to pour his hate and anger into, and would have boosted his ego and self image.

Don't get me wrong, they did have a long, tough road ahead. Life in general pretty much sucks for a great number of people on this planet. Yet I still feel if both had gotten the right kind of help they may have outgrew/overcome/learned to deal with the problems and had decent lives.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Ivan wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Ivan wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I have always said that Eric and Dylan had little to no chance of getting better without intensive  treatments, a mix of therapy and possibly the right meds. But I agree that merely graduating wouldn't have cured their problems and issues.

I don't think psychotherapy or medication would have worked. Look at what medication did to Eric - if anything it increased his appetite for destruction. In my opinion there was no saving either of them.

I do agree that it is possible the meds had the opposite effect, instead making Eric focus more on his anger then helping him see past it.

Although I just can't make myself believe that either were complete lost causes.

I just don't see how they are going to have a great life if they're planning murder at 16 and 17 years of age.

I in no way think their lives would have been all peachy keen in the least if they hadn't went through with NBK. I feel both had some serious mental issues, personality disorders, etc. Their lives likely would have been rough like so many who suffer the same issues. I doubt there is a teen in a certain age range or an adult today that hasn't thought about suicide or had some type of homicidal thoughts somewhere along the way.
 
Would they have been able to over come their problems and be productive members of society? That I can't say, BUT I will say both Eric and Dylan were smart, they had potential.  I don't think its a huge stretch to picture either one being a successful computer programmer, or a game designer, or anything related to those fields. Perhaps Eric would have been called up to serve in the Military following 9/11.  Who knows? Maybe that would have given his something to pour his hate and anger into, and would have boosted his ego and self image.

Don't get me wrong, they did have a long, tough road ahead. Life in general pretty much sucks for a great number of people on this planet. Yet I still feel if both had gotten the right kind of help they may have outgrew/overcome/learned to deal with the problems and had decent lives.

I agree. We just don't know, they were so young and it's hard enough dealing with the types of issues they had as adults, let alone as teens.

They didn't give themselves a chance and then it led them to ending lives, it's sad all around.

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Ivan wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Ivan wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I have always said that Eric and Dylan had little to no chance of getting better without intensive  treatments, a mix of therapy and possibly the right meds. But I agree that merely graduating wouldn't have cured their problems and issues.

I don't think psychotherapy or medication would have worked. Look at what medication did to Eric - if anything it increased his appetite for destruction. In my opinion there was no saving either of them.

I do agree that it is possible the meds had the opposite effect, instead making Eric focus more on his anger then helping him see past it.

Although I just can't make myself believe that either were complete lost causes.

I just don't see how they are going to have a great life if they're planning murder at 16 and 17 years of age.

I in no way think their lives would have been all peachy keen in the least if they hadn't went through with NBK. I feel both had some serious mental issues, personality disorders, etc. Their lives likely would have been rough like so many who suffer the same issues. I doubt there is a teen in a certain age range or an adult today that hasn't thought about suicide or had some type of homicidal thoughts somewhere along the way.
 
Would they have been able to over come their problems and be productive members of society? That I can't say, BUT I will say both Eric and Dylan were smart, they had potential.  I don't think its a huge stretch to picture either one being a successful computer programmer, or a game designer, or anything related to those fields. Perhaps Eric would have been called up to serve in the Military following 9/11.  Who knows? Maybe that would have given his something to pour his hate and anger into, and would have boosted his ego and self image.

Don't get me wrong, they did have a long, tough road ahead. Life in general pretty much sucks for a great number of people on this planet. Yet I still feel if both had gotten the right kind of help they may have outgrew/overcome/learned to deal with the problems and had decent lives.

I agree. We just don't know, they were so young and it's hard enough dealing with the types of issues they had as adults, let alone as teens.

They didn't give themselves a chance and then it led them to ending lives, it's sad all around.

I agree with both posts, by the responses of others regarding this tragedy, Eric and Dylan were evil monsters who had no hope for change, who had no chance to be cured. They were just evil because they were psychotic and wanted to be, etc. I will never believe that the moment a child is born, that child has a wanting to kill. That's ridiculous, no child is born evil, they are made that way, either through child abuse, child abandonment, school issues, life issues or etc. but as long as they are breathing, they have a chance to turn their lives around and get help.

E&D could have been helped and changed from all the anger, hurt and pain within them but since they didn't get that help, their lives continued to spiral down and down and down into destruction.

I've heard of prisoners who have done THE most heinous things but behind bars, they've totally changed their lives around and have become great people, so if they weren't lost causes, neither would E&D have been.

I don't like when anyone is referred to as "evil". It's not a term that you can back up with a medical diagnosis, it's more like a religious thing IMO.

Ivan wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

I'm not sure if they would've still become mass murderers, but their risk for suicide is high.

I think it's almost a foregone conclusion in my mind.

If a kid at 17 shoots up his school what's he going to be like at 34?

Well Andrew Golden actually shot up his school at age 11, and has managed to stay out of trouble despite that (although his partner Mitchell Johnson keeps getting arrested for drug offenses).

QuestionMark wrote:

Ivan wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

I'm not sure if they would've still become mass murderers, but their risk for suicide is high.

I think it's almost a foregone conclusion in my mind.

If a kid at 17 shoots up his school what's he going to be like at 34?

Well Andrew Golden actually shot up his school at age 11, and has managed to stay out of trouble despite that (although his partner Mitchell Johnson keeps getting arrested for drug offenses).

But they were probably too young to realize the gravity of what they were doing. I think Eric and Dylan at the age they were knew the implications of their actions.

E&D knew full well the implication their actions would have. But they were extremely immature when it came to their reasoning for those actions.

Littlelo wrote:

E&D knew full well the implication their actions would have. But they were extremely immature when it came to their reasoning for those actions.

Or extremely mental when it came to their reasoning....Why do people keep trying to hide the connection between mental illness and Columbine?

I'm not saying they didn't have a mental illness. I'm saying their reasoning was immature. They were severely mentally
Impaired as well.

Littlelo wrote:

E&D knew full well the implication their actions would have. But they were extremely immature when it came to their reasoning for those actions.

And other murderers haven't been?

You don't think a serial killer's reasoning for wanting to kill is any better? Paul Denyer, an Australian serial killer who killed 3 women between the 11th of June and 30th of July 1993 said his reasoning for killing was to "know what it's like to kill someone because I wanted to do it since I was 14".

Sound similar? Eric and Dylan probably had similar thoughts at the same age. I am almost positive Eric would have - when he was 15 he was on the internet writing about killing Brooks Brown.

Me saying E&D were immature was not to discount other mass killers who also were...

Littlelo wrote:

Me saying E&D were immature was not to discount other mass killers who also were...

But you can't discount Eric and Dylan either. Paul Denyer was only 21 when he committed those murders for the record, a full 3 years older than Eric was when he shot up Columbine.

Ivan wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Me saying E&D were immature was not to discount other mass killers who also were...

But you can't discount Eric and Dylan either.

Oh absolutely not. They had severe mental issues.

Littlelo wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Me saying E&D were immature was not to discount other mass killers who also were...

But you can't discount Eric and Dylan either.

Oh absolutely not. They had severe mental issues.

I agree but I don't think Dylan was just depressed. I really do think he had a lot of sociopathic traits that are overlooked and instead people make the assumption he had Asperger's or something.

Dylan Klebold did not have Asperger's. He wouldn't be on the spectrum. He was a sociopath with a black heart.

Eric I don't believe was a psychopath or a sociopath. He was just damaged through various things in his life. I mean his life was so much more turbulent than Dylan when he was younger with the moving around and such (Dylan NEVER moved as far as I can recall) and it seemed like he might have had second thoughts when he was saying goodbye to his parents.

Out of the two of them I feel more sorry for Eric than Dylan.

And I don't believe a sociopath and a psychopath are the same thing. Sociopaths can make connections to a limited amount of people. Psychopaths are incapable of even that.

Ivan wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Me saying E&D were immature was not to discount other mass killers who also were...

But you can't discount Eric and Dylan either.

Oh absolutely not. They had severe mental issues.

I agree but I don't think Dylan was just depressed. I really do think he had a lot of sociopathic traits that are overlooked and instead people make the assumption he had Asperger's or something.

Dylan Klebold did not have Asperger's. He wouldn't be on the spectrum. He was a sociopath with a black heart.

Eric I don't believe was a psychopath or a sociopath. He was just damaged through various things in his life. I mean his life was so much more turbulent than Dylan when he was younger with the moving around and such (Dylan NEVER moved as far as I can recall) and it seemed like he might have had second thoughts when he was saying goodbye to his parents.

Out of the two of them I feel more sorry for Eric than Dylan.

I agree that people aren't as hard on Dylan. Do you think that has something to do with Sue coming forward? It's easier for me to humanize him when I can read her account of his adolescence and her relationship with him....even though I'm sure Kathy has similar stories.

Littlelo wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Me saying E&D were immature was not to discount other mass killers who also were...

But you can't discount Eric and Dylan either.

Oh absolutely not. They had severe mental issues.

I agree but I don't think Dylan was just depressed. I really do think he had a lot of sociopathic traits that are overlooked and instead people make the assumption he had Asperger's or something.

Dylan Klebold did not have Asperger's. He wouldn't be on the spectrum. He was a sociopath with a black heart.

Eric I don't believe was a psychopath or a sociopath. He was just damaged through various things in his life. I mean his life was so much more turbulent than Dylan when he was younger with the moving around and such (Dylan NEVER moved as far as I can recall) and it seemed like he might have had second thoughts when he was saying goodbye to his parents.

Out of the two of them I feel more sorry for Eric than Dylan.

I agree that people aren't as hard on Dylan. Do you think that has something to do with Sue coming forward? It's easier for me to humanize him when I can read her account of his adolescence and her relationship with him....even though I'm sure Kathy has similar stories.

I think it has to do with the fact Eric wrote BS in his journal and Dylan wrote about how he wanted some girl to like him (but he imagined her being perfect and anything less wouldn't be good enough - another sociopathic trait).

True. Cullen said that Eric drew swastikas and Dylan drew hearts. But that has nothing to do with their actions.

Dylan also harped on more about this "God" crap more than Eric. That means he really did believe he was above others -- everybody else. He was a "God".

And Eric bullied people because he hated himself. He bullied kids that looked like him - and one of the kids he killed during the massacre, Steven Curnow, was very similar to Eric at the same age. Both played soccer and were into computers/nerdy stuff. Don't think it's a coincidence he killed Steven.

What do you think about Evan Todd? Wasn't he a jock? I always wondered why they didn't kill him.

Littlelo wrote:

What do you think about Evan Todd? Wasn't he a jock? I always wondered why they didn't kill him.

Dylan just enjoyed finally being in control when it came to a jock. That was enough for him, making a jock crap his pants at his mere sight. Eric was disorientated and probably didn't care too much anymore after that Cassie Bernall incident where he broke his nose.

Ivan wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

What do you think about Evan Todd? Wasn't he a jock? I always wondered why they didn't kill him.

Dylan just enjoyed finally being in control when it came to a jock. That was enough for him. Eric was disorientated and probably didn't care too much anymore after that Cassie Bernall incident where he broke his nose.

I can see that since it was after they had shot and killed everyone. They wanted to leave someone scared and scarred from the experience.

Littlelo wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

What do you think about Evan Todd? Wasn't he a jock? I always wondered why they didn't kill him.

Dylan just enjoyed finally being in control when it came to a jock. That was enough for him. Eric was disorientated and probably didn't care too much anymore after that Cassie Bernall incident where he broke his nose.

I can see that since it was after they had shot and killed everyone. They wanted to leave someone scared and scarred from the experience.

And only Dylan and Eric knew when the carnage would end. They had total control. Evan had none.

It hard to say they were 18 and 17. So that is still enough time to change their lives. Personally I think they were just really anti social I mean they broke into the van and that is a felony.

James411 wrote:

It hard to say they were 18 and 17. So that is still enough time to change their lives. Personally I think they were just really anti social I mean they broke into the van and that is a felony.

I agree -- but people here are saying they had Aspergers and other stuff.

No man. These kids had Antisocial Personality Disorder. They might not have been sociopaths or psychopaths (because they had feelings) but they definitely meet the pre-requisites for APD.

Ivan wrote:

These kids had Antisocial Personality Disorder. They might not have been sociopaths or psychopaths (because they had feelings) but they definitely meet the pre-requisites for APD.

It's important to note here that APD is often used interchangeably with "psychopath" or "sociopath".

QuestionMark wrote:

Ivan wrote:

These kids had Antisocial Personality Disorder. They might not have been sociopaths or psychopaths (because they had feelings) but they definitely meet the pre-requisites for APD.

It's important to note here that APD is often used interchangeably with "psychopath" or "sociopath".

Yes but psychopaths and sociopaths are two entirely different things.

Psychopaths are born bad and can come from loving homes yet still commit crime. Psychopaths also thrive in a group environment and usually hold a position of power.

Sociopaths are not born bad but over time the wiring in their brain changes and they become bad. They are usually loners who go on to commit serial killings or mass murders because they find it hard to control their impulses.

Antisocial Personality Disorder is not necessarily the same thing; it just means one meets most the pre-requisites for said Personality Disorder without actually falling into the "psychopath" or "sociopath" bracket.

I've done a lot of research to come to this conclusion and researched a lot of bad characters too.

An example being Neddy Smith, who was a violent criminal that had APD but was not necessarily a psychopath or a sociopath.

I think to imply that E&D having homicidal thoughts at a young age means they are lost causes is inaccurate. One of the reasons I think this case has gotten so much attention and a strong following is because it taps into how a lot of people feel in High School (or even just life in general). Most people have homicidal thoughts but do not discuss them for fear of being judged or locked up. I never believed they'd have gone on to become killers but I do think they would have been terrible boyfriends/husbands. Perhaps that is biased to believe on my part, however, as I dated a guy who could have doubled as Eric in looks AND personality.

Pho3nix wrote:

I think to imply that E&D having homicidal thoughts at a young age means they are lost causes is inaccurate. One of the reasons I think this case has gotten so much attention and a strong following is because it taps into how a lot of people feel in High School (or even just life in general). Most people have homicidal thoughts but do not discuss them for fear of being judged or locked up. I never believed they'd have gone on to become killers but I do think they would have been terrible boyfriends/husbands. Perhaps that is biased to believe on my part, however, as I dated a guy who could have doubled as Eric in looks AND personality.

To play devil's advocate, you can argue that they appeared to be normal and relatable teens because they had dark underlying psychological issues that allowed them to deceive those closest to them in a very believable way.

I don't subscribe to the idea that they were lost causes, however.

Littlelo wrote:

Pho3nix wrote:

I think to imply that E&D having homicidal thoughts at a young age means they are lost causes is inaccurate. One of the reasons I think this case has gotten so much attention and a strong following is because it taps into how a lot of people feel in High School (or even just life in general). Most people have homicidal thoughts but do not discuss them for fear of being judged or locked up. I never believed they'd have gone on to become killers but I do think they would have been terrible boyfriends/husbands. Perhaps that is biased to believe on my part, however, as I dated a guy who could have doubled as Eric in looks AND personality.

To play devil's advocate, you can argue that they appeared to be normal and relatable teens because they had dark underlying psychological issues that allowed them to deceive those closest to them in a very believable way.

I don't subscribe to the idea that they were lost causes, however.

I also have a hard time believing E&D were completely beyond all help.

Nobody is "born bad", and there is no such thing as evil. I do believe we are born with hardwired personalities but that's about it, everything else is a blank slate.
How we come to view the world is set in stone by our sorroundings and influences.
They both had a chance in life, and if they didn't have the means and opportunity to do what they did, they would have grown out of it and made normal lives for themselves.

TheSpiral wrote:

Nobody is "born bad", and there is no such thing as evil. I do believe we are born with hardwired personalities but that's about it, everything else is a blank slate.
How we come to view the world is set in stone by our sorroundings and influences.
They both had a chance in life, and if they didn't have the means and opportunity to do what they did, they would have grown out of it and made normal lives for themselves.

I also don't believe in "evil". it's so hard for me to say whether or not E&D would have struggled had they made it to adulthood. Dylan may have continued to battle depression and Eric may have continued to fight his anger issues. It's hard to say either one of their dispositions were just a phase though.

Littlelo wrote:

TheSpiral wrote:

Nobody is "born bad", and there is no such thing as evil. I do believe we are born with hardwired personalities but that's about it, everything else is a blank slate.
How we come to view the world is set in stone by our sorroundings and influences.
They both had a chance in life, and if they didn't have the means and opportunity to do what they did, they would have grown out of it and made normal lives for themselves.

I also don't believe in "evil". it's so hard for me to say whether or not E&D would have struggled had they made it to adulthood. Dylan may have continued to battle depression and Eric may have continued to fight his anger issues. It's hard to say either one of their dispositions were just a phase though.

I think if Dylan didn't get help he would have found a way to die anyway. Eric is a bit trickier for me.

I still can't bring myself to say Dylan was just an evil, black hearted person. How do we know that his yearbook writings in Eric's YB and the BT weren't Dylan putting on a front as well?

You could say Dylan on 4/20 was playing a "part" too that day. He was awful we know but without being able to talk to them we can't really say for certain what they were thinking, we just have their writings to go on.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

TheSpiral wrote:

Nobody is "born bad", and there is no such thing as evil. I do believe we are born with hardwired personalities but that's about it, everything else is a blank slate.
How we come to view the world is set in stone by our sorroundings and influences.
They both had a chance in life, and if they didn't have the means and opportunity to do what they did, they would have grown out of it and made normal lives for themselves.

I also don't believe in "evil". it's so hard for me to say whether or not E&D would have struggled had they made it to adulthood. Dylan may have continued to battle depression and Eric may have continued to fight his anger issues. It's hard to say either one of their dispositions were just a phase though.

I think if Dylan didn't get help he would have found a way to die anyway. Eric is a bit trickier for me.

I still can't bring myself to say Dylan was just an evil, black hearted person. How do we know that his yearbook writings in Eric's YB and the BT weren't Dylan putting on a front as well?

You could say Dylan on 4/20 was playing a "part" too that day. He was awful we know but without being able to talk to them we can't really say for certain what they were thinking, we just have their writings to go on.

I can certainly characterize their actions as evil, I think anyone would say the same.

But both had psychological issues, that is for sure. Instead of seeking help they chose to reconcile their issues by giving in to whatever was driving their need to hurt others.

Littlelo wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

TheSpiral wrote:

Nobody is "born bad", and there is no such thing as evil. I do believe we are born with hardwired personalities but that's about it, everything else is a blank slate.
How we come to view the world is set in stone by our sorroundings and influences.
They both had a chance in life, and if they didn't have the means and opportunity to do what they did, they would have grown out of it and made normal lives for themselves.

I also don't believe in "evil". it's so hard for me to say whether or not E&D would have struggled had they made it to adulthood. Dylan may have continued to battle depression and Eric may have continued to fight his anger issues. It's hard to say either one of their dispositions were just a phase though.

I think if Dylan didn't get help he would have found a way to die anyway. Eric is a bit trickier for me.

I still can't bring myself to say Dylan was just an evil, black hearted person. How do we know that his yearbook writings in Eric's YB and the BT weren't Dylan putting on a front as well?

You could say Dylan on 4/20 was playing a "part" too that day. He was awful we know but without being able to talk to them we can't really say for certain what they were thinking, we just have their writings to go on.

I can certainly characterize their actions as evil, I think anyone would say the same.

But both had psychological issues, that is for sure. Instead of seeking help they chose to reconcile their issues by giving in to whatever was driving their need to hurt others.

Oh yea, goes without saying. I think their actions were evil and wrong but were they born evil and was Dylan just a cold hearted psychopath. May be an interesting topic to start. Theories on why Dylan was the actual mastermind and psycho of the two. Though Dylan being a depressed boy who lost his way has been around since the beginning.