Hypothetical: NBK with a girl

I was thinking. Say back in 1997 or so Dylan actually found his halcyon girl who agreed to go NBK with him.

What would change (other than the obvious it wouldn't be Eric, he'd be in the cafeteria I think)

How would the media portray this? Would they be more sympathetic to a girl, she lost her way because of a guy?

Would Dylan still get people interested in studying him? Would she? Did the fact that it was a 2 guys make a difference?

What if she was posthumously diagnosed the psychopath like Eric?

I think the media coverage would be slightly different, Dylan would be demonized more I think. Bullying might be considered less of a factor too.

Interesting to think about. I do think that Dylan would likely become the one who bore the majority of blame, and the girl would get the only followed/obeyed "out of love" label.

Do you think there would be the Basement Tapes and the van break in?

Screamingophelia wrote:

Do you think there would be the Basement Tapes and the van break in?

I personally believe with a girl there would be Basement Tapes since I believe in Natural Born Killers Mickey and Mallory made stupid little videos. Your second question brought up an idea I find interesting.. Do you think it's possible the van situation happened so Dylan could test whether or not Eric was willing/able to do something illegal with or for Dylan? Might be a bit far fetched but it's a curious idea IMO.

Pho3nix wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Do you think there would be the Basement Tapes and the van break in?

I personally believe with a girl there would be Basement Tapes since I believe in Natural Born Killers Mickey and Mallory made stupid little videos. Your second question brought up an idea I find interesting.. Do you think it's possible the van situation happened so Dylan could test whether or not Eric was willing/able to do something illegal with or for Dylan? Might be a bit far fetched but it's a curious idea IMO.

I do, I think it could have very well been a test to see if they could get in trouble with each other and build trust.

It's interesting that Eric said it was Dylan's idea and Dylan said it was both of their ideas.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Pho3nix wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Do you think there would be the Basement Tapes and the van break in?

I personally believe with a girl there would be Basement Tapes since I believe in Natural Born Killers Mickey and Mallory made stupid little videos. Your second question brought up an idea I find interesting.. Do you think it's possible the van situation happened so Dylan could test whether or not Eric was willing/able to do something illegal with or for Dylan? Might be a bit far fetched but it's a curious idea IMO.

I do, I think it could have very well been a test to see if they could get in trouble with each other and build trust.

It's interesting that Eric said it was Dylan's idea and Dylan said it was both of their ideas.

Exactly. I think once they became "co-op criminals" together there was no turning back.

Is it known how Eric reacted to Dylan saying it was partly his and Eric's idea, and I suppose vice versa with Dylan knowing Eric said it was solely his idea? Or are those records kept strictly with the police so they had no idea what either of them said?

Pho3nix wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Pho3nix wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Do you think there would be the Basement Tapes and the van break in?

I personally believe with a girl there would be Basement Tapes since I believe in Natural Born Killers Mickey and Mallory made stupid little videos. Your second question brought up an idea I find interesting.. Do you think it's possible the van situation happened so Dylan could test whether or not Eric was willing/able to do something illegal with or for Dylan? Might be a bit far fetched but it's a curious idea IMO.

I do, I think it could have very well been a test to see if they could get in trouble with each other and build trust.

It's interesting that Eric said it was Dylan's idea and Dylan said it was both of their ideas.

Exactly. I think once they became "co-op criminals" together there was no turning back.

Is it known how Eric reacted to Dylan saying it was partly his and Eric's idea, and I suppose vice versa with Dylan knowing Eric said it was solely his idea? Or are those records kept strictly with the police so they had no idea what either of them said?

Never heard an answer to that question but I would love to know.

If Dylan went NBK with a girl, my gut reaction would be that HE would be demonized and blamed much like Eric is now. People would probably think it was an abusive relationship and she was brain washed.

Too much to delve into.

Littlelo wrote:

If Dylan went NBK with a girl, my gut reaction would be that HE would be demonized and blamed much like Eric is now. People would probably think it was an abusive relationship and she was brain washed.

That was how it was with Paul Bernardo. I am pretty sure Carla Holmaka is out of prison now and working with kids.. after everything they did.

That was my first introduction to a big criminal case, it happened 15 miles from where I grew up, back when you just needed your birth certificate or drivers license to get across the border.

I wonder too if E and D would have been such great friends without NBK or he'd be like "my friend shot up the school, I just wanted to join the Marines and get the eff out"

Dylan goes from being a wimp to having toxic masculinity.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Pho3nix wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Pho3nix wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Do you think there would be the Basement Tapes and the van break in?

I personally believe with a girl there would be Basement Tapes since I believe in Natural Born Killers Mickey and Mallory made stupid little videos. Your second question brought up an idea I find interesting.. Do you think it's possible the van situation happened so Dylan could test whether or not Eric was willing/able to do something illegal with or for Dylan? Might be a bit far fetched but it's a curious idea IMO.

I do, I think it could have very well been a test to see if they could get in trouble with each other and build trust.

It's interesting that Eric said it was Dylan's idea and Dylan said it was both of their ideas.

Exactly. I think once they became "co-op criminals" together there was no turning back.

Is it known how Eric reacted to Dylan saying it was partly his and Eric's idea, and I suppose vice versa with Dylan knowing Eric said it was solely his idea? Or are those records kept strictly with the police so they had no idea what either of them said?

Never heard an answer to that question but I would love to know.

I would imagine Dylan thinking "You little rat bastard!"

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Pho3nix wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Pho3nix wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Do you think there would be the Basement Tapes and the van break in?

I personally believe with a girl there would be Basement Tapes since I believe in Natural Born Killers Mickey and Mallory made stupid little videos. Your second question brought up an idea I find interesting.. Do you think it's possible the van situation happened so Dylan could test whether or not Eric was willing/able to do something illegal with or for Dylan? Might be a bit far fetched but it's a curious idea IMO.

I do, I think it could have very well been a test to see if they could get in trouble with each other and build trust.

It's interesting that Eric said it was Dylan's idea and Dylan said it was both of their ideas.

Exactly. I think once they became "co-op criminals" together there was no turning back.

Is it known how Eric reacted to Dylan saying it was partly his and Eric's idea, and I suppose vice versa with Dylan knowing Eric said it was solely his idea? Or are those records kept strictly with the police so they had no idea what either of them said?

Never heard an answer to that question but I would love to know.

I would imagine Dylan thinking "You little rat bastard!"

LOL, probably. You know if he ended up living that day, Eric that is he would SO be like "that crazy guy tricked me, he is insane.. you know he IS left handed, evil..."

Another thought....if Dylan found his "halcyon girl", would he still want to go through with it? I know love can't cure depression but if someone committed themselves to going that far with him, could it have given him a reason to live?

I remember in AMR Sue shared a letter from a woman who was raped and considering suicide. She basically said no family member could have talked to her and helped her, and it took a friend of the opposite sex to listen to her and get her through it. I know everyone is different but it made me think.

Littlelo wrote:

Another thought....if Dylan found his "halcyon girl", would he still want to go through with it? I know love can't cure depression but if someone committed themselves to going that far with him, could it have given him a reason to live?

I remember in AMR Sue shared a letter from a woman who was raped and considering suicide. She basically said no family member could have talked to her and helped her, and it took a friend of the opposite sex to listen to her and get her through it. I know everyone is different but it made me think.

Maybe if she listened to him and wasn't afraid of his anger that was hidden, he may have felt like he had a chance to be good and he could get through it?

Maybe that is what he needed? I feel like he tried a little bit to be open but he was shut down once and that was that.

I think it was Sasha? In his journal entry about a fake love, he couldn't be honest about hating jocks but Zach had Devon who he could talk to about suicide. I think that was his sophomore year? Or early junior...

Were any of the boys journals in 10th or did they start around 11th grade? Junior year always seems like  the turning point for them to most people.


<<-VoDkA->>
3-31-97
Life existence


First dated entry was Spring of Sophomore year

Dylan's began in the spring of Sophomore year and Eric's was in the spring of Junior year (from what we can see, at least). Who knows if either of them started earlier and those writings were just lost.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Another thought....if Dylan found his "halcyon girl", would he still want to go through with it? I know love can't cure depression but if someone committed themselves to going that far with him, could it have given him a reason to live?

I remember in AMR Sue shared a letter from a woman who was raped and considering suicide. She basically said no family member could have talked to her and helped her, and it took a friend of the opposite sex to listen to her and get her through it. I know everyone is different but it made me think.

Maybe if she listened to him and wasn't afraid of his anger that was hidden, he may have felt like he had a chance to be good and he could get through it?

Maybe that is what he needed? I feel like he tried a little bit to be open but he was shut down once and that was that.

I think it was Sasha? In his journal entry about a fake love, he couldn't be honest about hating jocks but Zach had Devon who he could talk to about suicide. I think that was his sophomore year? Or early junior...

Were any of the boys journals in 10th or did they start around 11th grade? Junior year always seems like  the turning point for them to most people.


<<-VoDkA->>
3-31-97
Life existence


First dated entry was Spring of Sophomore year

I agree, I think he needed to feel like it wasn't just him who had those feelings of loneliness and frustration. Unfortunately, the only other person who admitted to feeling that way to him was Eric. And they decided to go on a rampage to rectify their feelings.

Unless I am wrong and he was able to talk to other peers about his sadness and anger...

Littlelo wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Another thought....if Dylan found his "halcyon girl", would he still want to go through with it? I know love can't cure depression but if someone committed themselves to going that far with him, could it have given him a reason to live?

I remember in AMR Sue shared a letter from a woman who was raped and considering suicide. She basically said no family member could have talked to her and helped her, and it took a friend of the opposite sex to listen to her and get her through it. I know everyone is different but it made me think.

Maybe if she listened to him and wasn't afraid of his anger that was hidden, he may have felt like he had a chance to be good and he could get through it?

Maybe that is what he needed? I feel like he tried a little bit to be open but he was shut down once and that was that.

I think it was Sasha? In his journal entry about a fake love, he couldn't be honest about hating jocks but Zach had Devon who he could talk to about suicide. I think that was his sophomore year? Or early junior...

Were any of the boys journals in 10th or did they start around 11th grade? Junior year always seems like  the turning point for them to most people.


<<-VoDkA->>
3-31-97
Life existence


First dated entry was Spring of Sophomore year

I agree, I think he needed to feel like it wasn't just him who had those feelings of loneliness and frustration. Unfortunately, the only other person who admitted to feeling that way to him was Eric. And they decided to go on a rampage to rectify their feelings.

Unless I am wrong and he was able to talk to other peers about his sadness and anger...

I think that it was easier for him to talk to people like Zach and Robyn about his sadness and depression but with Eric he could really be angry and tell him about his rage, which unfortunately won out in the end.

I have no doubt to this day Sue regrets not sitting Dylan down and talking to him about what he said on Mothers Day. Being so angry he felt like he could possibly hurt his mom it sounds like.. or at least yell at her, all kidding aside, Dylan had a viscous yell.

I am sure that last Mother's day does haunt Sue for numerous reasons.

W.A.R. wrote:

Dylan goes from being a wimp to having toxic masculinity.

"That one kid that had all the new nerf guns is the kid who will kill everyone"

People have shitty logic, so Dylan would be seen as a total cunt and the girl would get sympathy.