Does anyone know of some detailed bullying incidents?

I have read about the jocks throwing tampons covered in ketchup at Dylan.

I have heard something involving poop and name calling. I just wonder if anyone has any more details about how far the bullying went.
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Some good details in this thread.

I think even if Dylan was bullied horribly (and i do believe they were bullied and there was a bullying culture)

Someone like Dylan would never admit to the extent of it. He’d be too embarrassed and let the anger fester. Better to act more as Eric’s protector than admit he gets shit too.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I think even if Dylan was bullied horribly (and i do believe they were bullied and there was a bullying culture)

Someone like Dylan would never admit to the extent of it. He’d be too embarrassed and let the anger fester. Better to act more as Eric’s protector than admit he gets shit too.

Yes. It's a shame we don't have access to Eric's therapy notes. It would be interesting to learn if he spoke to his therapist about being picked on, and to what extent.

04daviszoe wrote:

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Some good details in this thread. [smiley][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thank you. I will definitely go check that out!

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Screamingophelia wrote:

I think even if Dylan was bullied horribly (and i do believe they were bullied and there was a bullying culture)

Someone like Dylan would never admit to the extent of it. He’d be too embarrassed and let the anger fester. Better to act more as Eric’s protector than admit he gets shit too.

That's true, I guess I just hoped they had maybe written about it in their journals.

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Nothing detailed in the journals at least from what we have seen. Eric said he was picked on for everything his looks, his clothing. his music choices etc

While I do believe some bullying went on in their first few years of HS, I think a lot of it was over by the time they were seniors. At least the horrible bullying such as the ketchup incident

Lizpuff wrote:

Nothing detailed in the journals at least from what we have seen.  Eric said he was picked on for everything his looks, his clothing. his music choices etc

While I do believe some bullying went on in their first few years of HS, I think a lot of it was over by the time they were seniors.  At least the horrible bullying such as the ketchup incident

I think after Rocky and his buddies left things calmed down.

Though didn’t a lot of trouble making freshman enter school their senior year?

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Nothing detailed in the journals at least from what we have seen.  Eric said he was picked on for everything his looks, his clothing. his music choices etc

While I do believe some bullying went on in their first few years of HS, I think a lot of it was over by the time they were seniors.  At least the horrible bullying such as the ketchup incident

I think after Rocky and his buddies left things calmed down.

Though didn’t a lot of trouble making freshman enter school their senior year?

From what they said yes. But I doubt it was actual bullying. Sounds like kids who cut in line for lunch and liked to shout out rude things. I don't think there was any student bowling or anything like that after Rocky's group left

Was that the group that vandalized Dylan’s car? Or was that junior year?

Screamingophelia wrote:

Was that the group that vandalized Dylan’s car? Or was that junior year?

I believe that was JR year. They did have issues with kids who would go out and sit by their cars in the lot and make fun of them as they left the building. They went to the school office for that but I don't know what if anything came of that

Lizpuff wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Was that the group that vandalized Dylan’s car? Or was that junior year?

I believe that was JR year.  They did have issues with kids who would go out and sit by their cars in the lot and make fun of them as they left the building.  They went to the school office for that but I don't know what if anything came of that

Thanks Liz

I get the vibe that senior year it was pretty much Eric and Dylan against the world and if anyone tried anything with them they probably would get yelled at or the boys wouldn't care since their plan was in place.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Was that the group that vandalized Dylan’s car? Or was that junior year?

I believe that was JR year.  They did have issues with kids who would go out and sit by their cars in the lot and make fun of them as they left the building.  They went to the school office for that but I don't know what if anything came of that

Thanks Liz

I get the vibe that senior year it was pretty much Eric and Dylan against the world and if anyone tried anything with them they probably would get yelled at or the boys wouldn't care since their plan was in place.

They tried to start that "rumble" with the Freshmen who never showed up I always found that funny. But yea I agree I think by the end they were pretty much just existing

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There's this one with the tossing donuts and swearing in german. It is interesting since it happened on fourth of July and I remember Dylan or Eric wrote something about fourth of July being awesome or whatever so maybe they felt like they really got those guys with the german swearing or something, I don't know.

And yeah, Jason Kirk also talks about it on page 5014 in the 11k.

munchkinphone wrote:

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There's this one with the tossing donuts and swearing in german. It is interesting since it happened on fourth of July and I remember Dylan or Eric wrote something about fourth of July being awesome or whatever so maybe they felt like they really got those guys with the german swearing or something, I don't know.

Did they work at the fireworks stand every summer or just when they were underclassman?

The boys were a study in contradictions. In one part of Eric's yearbook Dylan is like "we have great winter boots and remember when we went to the water park and got BURNT!"

then "My wrath for Januarys incident will be GODLIKE. The holy morning of NBK when the pigs and zombies learn the error of their ways"


"man summer is fun, huh?"

Lizpuff wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Was that the group that vandalized Dylan’s car? Or was that junior year?

I believe that was JR year.  They did have issues with kids who would go out and sit by their cars in the lot and make fun of them as they left the building.  They went to the school office for that but I don't know what if anything came of that

Thanks Liz

I get the vibe that senior year it was pretty much Eric and Dylan against the world and if anyone tried anything with them they probably would get yelled at or the boys wouldn't care since their plan was in place.

They tried to start that "rumble" with the Freshmen who never showed up  I always found that funny.  But yea I agree I think by the end they were pretty much just existing

I do too. They were trying to be all "bad ass" don't mess with us. I think Dylan was trying to perfect his rough exterior for a while (Robyn said her first reaction to Dylan was that he was rough)

I do wonder if Adam was a part of the freshman group that was causing trouble? Regardless of disability one can still be a jerk to others. Though if it is true that what Dylan said to him etc.. that was uncalled for, but if the threats were that serious I don't know why he wasn't brought it to the office and got into trouble. I get the vibe that Sue didn't know until after Dylans death.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Was that the group that vandalized Dylan’s car? Or was that junior year?

I haven't heard of that happening. Any details?

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TrialJunkie74 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Was that the group that vandalized Dylan’s car? Or was that junior year?

I haven't heard of that happening. Any details?

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Are you talking about this from AMR?

"Tom and I were aware of another incident. Junior year, Dylan had a parking space in a remote lot next to the school grounds. A few weeks after he confronted the freshmen, he told his father his car wasn’t running well. Tom found the hood flattened as if someone had stood on it, leaving an indentation deep enough to damage the fuse box. Dylan said he hadn’t noticed the dent. Tom asked him outright if the freshmen had intentionally damaged his car. Dylan said he didn’t know when or how it had happened, although he was certain it had happened in the school parking lot."

munchkinphone wrote:

TrialJunkie74 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Was that the group that vandalized Dylan’s car? Or was that junior year?

I haven't heard of that happening. Any details?

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Are you talking about this from AMR?

"Tom and I were aware of another incident. Junior year, Dylan had a parking space in a remote lot next to the school grounds. A few weeks after he confronted the freshmen, he told his father his car wasn’t running well. Tom found the hood flattened as if someone had stood on it, leaving an indentation deep enough to damage the fuse box. Dylan said he hadn’t noticed the dent. Tom asked him outright if the freshmen had intentionally damaged his car. Dylan said he didn’t know when or how it had happened, although he was certain it had happened in the school parking lot."

Yes

Was there another story about someone putting sugar in his tank?

I've never heard anything about that.

I really want to know wether this freshman that is constantly referred to is the same person or different freshmen each time. Dylan messing with his locker suggests it's the same guy. I feel he must've targeted Dylan specifically since there's no information about a freshman harassing Eric and Dylan did the lockerthing alone.

I wonder why it seems he didn't bully Eric as well

munchkinphone wrote:

I've never heard anything about that.

I really want to know wether this freshman that is constantly referred to is the same person or different freshmen each time. Dylan messing with his locker suggests it's the same guy. I feel he must've targeted Dylan specifically since there's no information about a freshman harassing Eric and Dylan did the lockerthing alone.

I wonder why it seems he didn't bully Eric as well

That's a good point... Eric had a few scuffles with other guys that didn't involve Dylan (Dan Lab I think) and Nate and Eric fought over Kristi but Eric didn't do anything in retaliation and Nate even wrote something nice to them in the yearbook and he was mentioned in the BT.

I think it was the same freshman person. I feel like there are people who will just target people for no reason.

Screamingophelia wrote:

if the threats were that serious I don't know why he wasn't brought it to the office and got into trouble

I get the impression that very few of the people who were administrators at Columbine cared what the students did to each other.

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

if the threats were that serious I don't know why he wasn't brought it to the office and got into trouble

I get the impression that very few of the people who were administrators at Columbine cared what the students did to each other.

I’m inclined to agree. I think it shows some of Dylan’s hypocrisy lwhen he complains about everything the jocks get away with and yet he got away with a few things too.I have no doubt the jocks got away with more.

Is Chads recollection of helping Dylan clean up after the ketchup incident in the 11k?

Screamingophelia wrote:

Is Chads recollection of helping Dylan clean up after the ketchup incident in the 11k?

You can find Chad in the "Outside Witnesses" section around pg 300. He was not interviewed as a friend or acquaintance. He mentions seeing Dylan that morning, the note Eric wrote in his yearbook and the fantasy baseball. Nothing about any bullying

Lizpuff wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Is Chads recollection of helping Dylan clean up after the ketchup incident in the 11k?

You can find Chad in the "Outside Witnesses" section around pg 300.  He was not interviewed as a friend or acquaintance.  He mentions seeing Dylan that morning, the note Eric wrote in his yearbook and the fantasy baseball.  Nothing about any bullying

Thanks!!

I’m trying to remember where I read that Chad helped Dylan clean up in the bathroom...

The only thing I know is that Chad gave an interview to Alan Pendergast which you can find on google mentioning it. But he only mentions witnessing it not cleaning as far as I can tell

Lizpuff wrote:

The only thing I know is that Chad gave an interview to Alan Pendergast which you can find on google mentioning it. But he only mentions witnessing it not cleaning as far as I can tell

It may have been in no easy answers. Or another Chad? I think there’s two or three Chad that they knew. There were a lot of Chad, Eric’s and mikes at that school.

What about the other side of the bullying? In Sue Klebold's book there is one brief snippet about finding out the boys tormented some other kid. It wasn't expounded upon -- I think the kid was disabled? Any more on that situation or more like it where they were bullying (before the shooting) others?

HuskerStorm wrote:

What about the other side of the bullying?  In Sue Klebold's book there is one brief snippet about finding out the boys tormented some other kid.  It wasn't expounded upon -- I think the kid was disabled?  Any more on that situation or more like it where they were bullying (before the shooting) others?

It sounds like you're talking about Adam Kyler. I can't post any Tumblr link for you but search for "Dylan the asshole: the Adam Kyler story" and you should find a very thorough explanation.

I just posted this in another thread but it has a compilation of excerpts about Eric and Dylan as bullies and as the victims of bullying (or "harassment" as he calls it) so it works here too.
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Since I started keeping track of this subject, I've also come across a few more mentions of bullying which Langman did not include in his compilation. Not all of them are about Eric and Dylan specifically but they support the idea that bullying (or teasing/harassment) was going on and that it was often directed at the TCM members and/or perpetrated by jocks.

3106 Gattoni
Q. Do you know them personally?
A. No, I see them around and they wear the same thing every day like trench coats, everyone makes fun of them

3456 Kish
The only other comment he had was that he felt that the "jocks" pick on other people at the school.

6612 Hetzel
I asked Casey Hetzel if he had seen any of the “jocks" picking on or harassing the Trench Coat Mafia students. Casey said that he has seen the “jocks" call the Trench Coat Mafia students “dirt bags and stuff" in the hallways at Columbine High School. Casey said during the school year prior to the shooting, when the Trench Coat Mafia students were in his weight lifting class in gym, he had seen fights between the jocks and the Trench Coat Mafia students in the locker room.

6813 Lovell
He said that he had known who they were because of their dress and that other kids had generally made fun of them because of their appearance at school.

Thanks! Not sure why I can't quote yours, but I appreciate the reply.

Not a specific incident but I thought that I'd add this quote from a girl who graduated in 1998. She'd had a class with Eric but never really spoke to him and mainly knew of him because she had a crush on Kevin Harris while she was in high school.

7530 Kyler
Witness Kyler said that she was surprised to hear that suspect Harris was a member of the Trench Coat Mafia. She said she knew he had been teased and harassed by the "jocks" quite frequently, however.

Not a bullying episode specifically but on one of the documentaries one of the girls (Rpbin/ Devon, who knows?) said that she was seen talking to Dylan and immediately after Dylan left she was shoved into a locker and questioned as to why she was "talking to that faggot".

It just shows how the boys were targeted and isolated from the rest of the pupils.

The accounts of Adam Kyler is mentioned in the 11k documents

First things first, its important to keep in mind that we do not necessarily know for sure how many of these incidents are actually true. Theres a lot of mis- information about Columbine. So, its definately no way that we can say for sure wether all of these incidents are entirely accurate. The media has been good at distorting our perception of facts in this case. We can only speculate about wether they were actually bullied or not.

Two: I can't believe Im repeating this, as Im sure others are aware of this: They werent part of the TCM.

But the withness accounts are as follows:

Evan Todd and comment about 'weird hairdoes'. Now, if we read 'the search for truth at Columbine', we learn that Evan Todd very likely, in fact, confused Eric and Dylan with other people at the school with that statement. In other words, this couldnt have been directed towards Eric and Dylan.

Nathan Vanderau: Cup of fecal matter thrown at them. Ive only seen this in one documentary. I tried to find other sources from where he said this, and I couldnt find any, other than whats been circkling on the internet, plus, the documentary. So IDK wether he actually made references to the two or the TCM. I definately get the impression that members of the TCM were picked on, but they had nothing to do with Eric and Dylan.

Statements by Brooks Brown:

Chest Deformity of Eric Harris made him reluctant to take hes shirt off in gym, in fear of being laughed at.

The jocks once threw glass bottles at them and it landed near Dylans feet.

Sue Klebold:
Thrash and glass bottles thrown at them as they drove by. Dylan tried to comfort a newcomer, saying: 'It happens all the time'.

School record:

Eric once hit against the floor with a ball, and pushed against a locker.

Nate Dykeman: Eric more bullied than Dylan.


Dylan Klebold: Says jocks didnt give him much trouble, but 'they sure give Eric hell'.

Robyn Anderson: Never did see either one of them getting picked on.

I, personally, fall somewhere in the middle, here. Im highly critical towards certain statements, as I believe them to be taken out of context. Yet, I dont dispute that somewhere along the lines at least some of the harassment or bullying must me true. Even though some prominent experts have argued otherwise.

Dylan was called stretch in gym class.

Norwegian wrote:

First things first, its important to keep in mind that we do not necessarily know for sure how many of these incidents are actually true. Theres a lot of mis- information about Columbine. So, its definately no way that we can say for sure wether all of these incidents are entirely accurate. The media has been good at distorting our perception of facts in this case. We can only speculate about wether they were actually bullied or not.

Two: I can't believe Im repeating this, as Im sure others are aware of this: They werent part of the TCM.

But the withness accounts are as follows:

Evan Todd and comment about 'weird hairdoes'. Now, if we read 'the search for truth at Columbine', we learn that Evan Todd very likely, in fact, confused Eric and Dylan with other people at the school with that statement. In other words, this couldnt have been directed towards Eric and Dylan.

Nathan Vanderau: Cup of fecal matter thrown at them. Ive only seen this in one documentary. I tried to find other sources from where he said this, and I couldnt find any, other than whats been circkling on the internet, plus, the documentary. So IDK wether he actually made references to the two or the TCM. I definately get the impression that members of the TCM were picked on, but they had nothing to do with Eric and Dylan.

Statements by Brooks Brown:

Chest Deformity of Eric Harris made him reluctant to take hes shirt off in gym, in fear of being laughed at.

The jocks once threw glass bottles at them and it landed near Dylans feet.

Sue Klebold:
Thrash and glass bottles thrown at them as they drove by. Dylan tried to comfort a newcomer, saying: 'It happens all the time'.

School record:

Eric once hit against the floor with a ball, and pushed against a locker.

Nate Dykeman: Eric more bullied than Dylan.


Dylan Klebold: Says jocks didnt give him much trouble, but 'they sure give Eric hell'.

Robyn Anderson: Never did see either one of them getting picked on.

I, personally, fall somewhere in the middle, here. Im highly critical towards certain statements, as I believe them to be taken out of context. Yet, I dont dispute that somewhere along the lines at least some of the harassment or bullying must me true. Even though some prominent experts have argued otherwise.

I can’t imagine there is anyone who hasn’t been harassed at least once during high school.
Bullying is different because it is constant and systematic and somehow when I see all these comments in one place I don't think E&D were bullied.

When your crush doesn't pay attention to you it is not considered bullying, or when you are frustrated or bored by "normies" (or should I say "zombies") who are not thinking critically and looking at you like you're some kind of weirdo, etc.
I actually don't know what I'm trying to say
It is just that I don't think they were picked on to the extent they would decide to shoot up their school. This is definitely not the main reason here.

MalonsMilk wrote:

Not a bullying episode specifically but on one of the documentaries one of the girls (Rpbin/ Devon, who knows?) said that she was seen talking to Dylan and immediately after Dylan left she was shoved into a locker and questioned as to why she was "talking to that faggot".

It just shows how the  boys were targeted and isolated from the rest of the pupils.

It was Devon Adams who said that. It's still fresh in my mind because I saw that documentary the other day.

I think the bullying stuff is undeniable by now, although I believe we'll never be able to find out to what extend it really happened. However, the bullying was only one of the factors to commit the shooting. Honestly, I think the fact they both were mentally ill was a much more important factor in this case. And no, I don't buy the "cullenbine" stuff by any means, just to clarify

Onyx wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

First things first, its important to keep in mind that we do not necessarily know for sure how many of these incidents are actually true. Theres a lot of mis- information about Columbine. So, its definately no way that we can say for sure wether all of these incidents are entirely accurate. The media has been good at distorting our perception of facts in this case. We can only speculate about wether they were actually bullied or not.

Two: I can't believe Im repeating this, as Im sure others are aware of this: They werent part of the TCM.

But the withness accounts are as follows:

Evan Todd and comment about 'weird hairdoes'. Now, if we read 'the search for truth at Columbine', we learn that Evan Todd very likely, in fact, confused Eric and Dylan with other people at the school with that statement. In other words, this couldnt have been directed towards Eric and Dylan.

Nathan Vanderau: Cup of fecal matter thrown at them. Ive only seen this in one documentary. I tried to find other sources from where he said this, and I couldnt find any, other than whats been circkling on the internet, plus, the documentary. So IDK wether he actually made references to the two or the TCM. I definately get the impression that members of the TCM were picked on, but they had nothing to do with Eric and Dylan.

Statements by Brooks Brown:

Chest Deformity of Eric Harris made him reluctant to take hes shirt off in gym, in fear of being laughed at.

The jocks once threw glass bottles at them and it landed near Dylans feet.

Sue Klebold:
Thrash and glass bottles thrown at them as they drove by. Dylan tried to comfort a newcomer, saying: 'It happens all the time'.

School record:

Eric once hit against the floor with a ball, and pushed against a locker.

Nate Dykeman: Eric more bullied than Dylan.


Dylan Klebold: Says jocks didnt give him much trouble, but 'they sure give Eric hell'.

Robyn Anderson: Never did see either one of them getting picked on.

I, personally, fall somewhere in the middle, here. Im highly critical towards certain statements, as I believe them to be taken out of context. Yet, I dont dispute that somewhere along the lines at least some of the harassment or bullying must me true. Even though some prominent experts have argued otherwise.

I can’t imagine there is anyone who hasn’t been harassed at least once during high school.
Bullying is different because it is constant and systematic and somehow when I see all these comments in one place I don't think E&D were bullied.

When your crush doesn't pay attention to you it is not considered bullying, or when you are frustrated or bored by "normies" (or should I say "zombies") who are not thinking critically and looking at you like you're some kind of weirdo, etc.
I actually don't know what I'm trying to say  
It is just that I don't think they were picked on to the extent they would decide to shoot up their school. This is definitely not the main reason here.

I think you put it rightly. Its questionable the extend to which they were bullied, if that was your point.

[quote="Fata Morgana"]

MalonsMilk wrote:

Not a bullying episode specifically but on one of the documentaries one of the girls (Rpbin/ Devon, who knows?) said that she was seen talking to Dylan and immediately after Dylan left she was shoved into a locker and questioned as to why she was "talking to that faggot".

It just shows how the  boys were targeted and isolated from the rest of the pupils.

It was Devon Adams who said that. It's still fresh in my mind because I saw that documentary the other day.

I think the bullying stuff is undeniable by now, although I believe we'll never be able to find out to what extend it really happened. However, the bullying was only one of the factors to commit the shooting. Honestly, I think the fact they both were mentally ill was a much more important factor in this case. And no, I don't buy the "cullenbine" stuff by any means, just to clarify [/quo
e].

Are you sure?

I know that Im not. Because, why does Frank Ochberg say that they were not bullied?


'Bullying and revenge

We have too many bullies and too many youngsters at the mercy of bullies. But we also have a growing system of anti-bullying school programs. Despite rumors to the contrary, the Columbine killers were not bullied. There is no evidence that America, compared to other nations, has more bullies, more bullying, more victimization, and more victims who are ticking time bombs, hatching plots of lethal vengeance. However, we certainly can and should promote school programs that protect all children from stalking, hazing, and the new, evolving forms of abuse: Ostracism and humiliation through electronic social networks'.
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Not saying they werent. But this causes much confusion in my mind.

Nevertheless, everything else that he says is important of course, for all obvious reasons.