Bullying?

You know I think bullying had a part to do with shooting rather than being mentally ill. I was bullied in middle school and it hurts. Their is no reason for it. Why do people want to bully others for no reason? Don't they know it hurts? It wasn't an excuse for them to kill people, but anyone can have their breaking point.

People tend to forget that Eric and Dylan weren't exactly at the bottom of the totem pole. Okay sure, people described them as so and they definitely saw themselves as that, losers, etc, but they really weren't. There were kids worse off than them, and they picked on others too. They were actually pretty average and surprisingly, cool enough. They had good friends, they did alright in schoolwork, they managed to get by. Do we even know what a loser is? A loser is someone with no hope. A loser is someone who probably doesn't even know they're losers. What their problem was was their self esteem. They were ungrateful. They wanted more. At one point I see why they were victimised, another I see them as brats.

I agree with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Were they bullied? Yes they were. But were they also bullies themselves? Yes they were. Many kids (including myself) were bullied. Not all of them turn into killers so there has to be something else in the mix. That is where the mental illness kicks in. Depression can make you feel even more worthless than you already are. And thinking and seeing yourself as God can also mess with your head.

Lizpuff wrote:

I agree with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].  Were they bullied?  Yes they were.  But were they also bullies themselves?  Yes they were.  Many kids (including myself) were bullied.  Not all of them turn into killers so there has to be something else in the mix.  That is where the mental illness kicks in.  Depression can make you feel even more worthless than you already are.  And thinking and seeing yourself as God can also mess with your head.

Well, why do jocks have to pick on others? To make them feel good about themselves even though they are probably football players or something like that? It tells me the jocks are very insecure about themselves too that they have to inflict pain on others.

bradt93 wrote:

Well, why do jocks have to pick on others? To make them feel good about themselves even though they are probably football players or something like that? It tells me the jocks are very insecure about themselves too that they have to inflict pain on others.

They ARE insecure of themselves. People pick on others all for their own expense. A normal, confident and nice person wouldn't do things like these.

I wasn't picked on by guys, but women picked on me? Now why would women pick on boys instead of girls?

bradt93 wrote:

I wasn't picked on by guys, but women picked on me? Now why would women pick on boys instead of girls?

I feel like your situation is more broader than that, down to what type of women are these and what kind of person are you. Did it start from somewhere, do they know who you are, etc. Regardless, if they're treating you that way you know these women aren't worth your time or at all.

And women pick on other women everyday.

shades, this was when I was middle school, 25 years ago. I'm now in college. It still hurts a little though. I've been going to therapy ever since. Also, yes they knew who I was.

bradt93 wrote:

shades, this was when I was middle school, 25 years ago. I'm now in college. It still hurts a little though. I've been going to therapy ever since. Also, yes they knew who I was.

You don't need them. I had a horrible high school experience too in the beginning. But I also knew my insecurities were all over the place. As far as I'm concerned, most of my past never happened. I hope you're able to deal with it, most importantly forget it. People plummet to their lowest to get shaped up and rise up again.

shades wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

shades, this was when I was middle school, 25 years ago. I'm now in college. It still hurts a little though. I've been going to therapy ever since. Also, yes they knew who I was.

You don't need them. I had a horrible high school experience too in the beginning. But I also knew my insecurities were all over the place. As far as I'm concerned, most of my past never happened. I hope you're able to deal with it, most importantly forget it. People plummet to their lowest to get shaped up and rise up again.

Yes, also why couldn't Eric and Dylan find girlfriends? I know about Robyn, but what about Eric? Would you of gave them a chance and talked to them?

bradt93 wrote:

shades wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

shades, this was when I was middle school, 25 years ago. I'm now in college. It still hurts a little though. I've been going to therapy ever since. Also, yes they knew who I was.

You don't need them. I had a horrible high school experience too in the beginning. But I also knew my insecurities were all over the place. As far as I'm concerned, most of my past never happened. I hope you're able to deal with it, most importantly forget it. People plummet to their lowest to get shaped up and rise up again.

Yes, also why couldn't Eric and Dylan find girlfriends? I know about Robyn, but what about Eric? Would you of gave them a chance and talked to them?

Asking girls now if they'd give Dylan or Eric a chance is kind of unfair because of the fandom and how infamous they've become. Most girls say that, yes, they would have given both boys a shot. Well, if that were the case, how come neither one of them could find love? Hell, Eric couldn't even find someone to take to the prom just as date, let alone him trying to actually find a girlfriend.

Jenn wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

shades wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

shades, this was when I was middle school, 25 years ago. I'm now in college. It still hurts a little though. I've been going to therapy ever since. Also, yes they knew who I was.

You don't need them. I had a horrible high school experience too in the beginning. But I also knew my insecurities were all over the place. As far as I'm concerned, most of my past never happened. I hope you're able to deal with it, most importantly forget it. People plummet to their lowest to get shaped up and rise up again.

Yes, also why couldn't Eric and Dylan find girlfriends? I know about Robyn, but what about Eric? Would you of gave them a chance and talked to them?

Asking girls now if they'd give Dylan or Eric a chance is kind of unfair because of the fandom and how infamous they've become. Most girls say that, yes, they would have given both boys a shot. Well, if that were the case, how come neither one of them could find love? Hell, Eric couldn't even find someone to take to the prom just as date, let alone him trying to actually find a girlfriend.

Well, I have aspergers which is a social disorder, they could've had something like that. Also, don't most girls sense something is not right upstairs with some guys?

bradt93 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

shades wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

shades, this was when I was middle school, 25 years ago. I'm now in college. It still hurts a little though. I've been going to therapy ever since. Also, yes they knew who I was.

You don't need them. I had a horrible high school experience too in the beginning. But I also knew my insecurities were all over the place. As far as I'm concerned, most of my past never happened. I hope you're able to deal with it, most importantly forget it. People plummet to their lowest to get shaped up and rise up again.

Yes, also why couldn't Eric and Dylan find girlfriends? I know about Robyn, but what about Eric? Would you of gave them a chance and talked to them?

Asking girls now if they'd give Dylan or Eric a chance is kind of unfair because of the fandom and how infamous they've become. Most girls say that, yes, they would have given both boys a shot. Well, if that were the case, how come neither one of them could find love? Hell, Eric couldn't even find someone to take to the prom just as date, let alone him trying to actually find a girlfriend.

Well, I have aspergers which is a social disorder, they could've had something like that. Also, don't most girls sense something is not right upstairs with some guys?

Maybe. I don't really know what other girls think but I can say that for myself personally, I may have been friends with Dylan and Eric (and that's a pretty big maybe) but I would not have been interested in either of them. And it's not because of their looks (even though I don't really find them attractive but looks isn't always the main thing for me), it's because of how hard they went out of their way to try and act different than everyone else. And also how they acted violent all the time, making videos of themselves killing people, writing stories about killing people, dressing like weird German Nazi's or whatever the hell that look Chris Morris and Dylan were trying to achieve with the berets and German T-shirts.

They may have had some bullying done to them at Columbine but they went out of their way not to fit in. Back in Eric's earlier years, before he got all messed up with Dylan, he used to dress preppy. He had a lot of friends who said that he was a really nice kid, he got along with everyone and that they were shocked that it was actually him who was involved in Columbine. I know a lot of people think Eric was this great mastermind just because he wrote up this journal lashing out and acting like he was this crazy madman. I don't believe that though. I think he was heavily influenced by Dylan. That's a whole other topic though. So to stay on topic, it is very possible that girls didn't want to date them because of hard they went out of their way to act crazy and dress differently and act violent both in and out of school.

I mean look at Brooks Brown, if he can get a girlfriend, I'm sure Dylan and Eric could have, right? I mean there's got to be some reason the girls didn't like them. I also think they were both way out of their league with the girls they were trying to go after, Eric in particular. Dylan was just lusting over these girls that didn't even know him and he wouldn't even approach them. Eric did try to get girls but they all turned him down.

I can honestly say I never bullied anyone when I was in school and I felt bad for kids that were bullied and even though I was not bullied myself (in high school), I have been bullied as an adult though, I made quite a few friends with kids that were bullied. So I do feel bad that Dylan and Eric were bullied but on the flip side of the coin, they bullied way worse than they were bullied. I mean they had that one kid so scared he didn't even wanna go back to school and Dylan either slapped or punched that one girl during gym class. So I think it was probably all those things combined that made girls not like them.

Jenn wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

shades wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

shades, this was when I was middle school, 25 years ago. I'm now in college. It still hurts a little though. I've been going to therapy ever since. Also, yes they knew who I was.

You don't need them. I had a horrible high school experience too in the beginning. But I also knew my insecurities were all over the place. As far as I'm concerned, most of my past never happened. I hope you're able to deal with it, most importantly forget it. People plummet to their lowest to get shaped up and rise up again.

Yes, also why couldn't Eric and Dylan find girlfriends? I know about Robyn, but what about Eric? Would you of gave them a chance and talked to them?

Asking girls now if they'd give Dylan or Eric a chance is kind of unfair because of the fandom and how infamous they've become. Most girls say that, yes, they would have given both boys a shot. Well, if that were the case, how come neither one of them could find love? Hell, Eric couldn't even find someone to take to the prom just as date, let alone him trying to actually find a girlfriend.

Well, I have aspergers which is a social disorder, they could've had something like that. Also, don't most girls sense something is not right upstairs with some guys?

Maybe. I don't really know what other girls think but I can say that for myself personally, I may have been friends with Dylan and Eric (and that's a pretty big maybe) but I would not have been interested in either of them. And it's not because of their looks (even though I don't really find them attractive but looks isn't always the main thing for me), it's because of how hard they went out of their way to try and act different than everyone else. And also how they acted violent all the time, making videos of themselves killing people, writing stories about killing people, dressing like weird German Nazi's or whatever the hell that look Chris Morris and Dylan were trying to achieve with the berets and German T-shirts.

They may have had some bullying done to them at Columbine but they went out of their way not to fit in. Back in Eric's earlier years, before he got all messed up with Dylan, he used to dress preppy. He had a lot of friends who said that he was a really nice kid, he got along with everyone and that they were shocked that it was actually him who was involved in Columbine. I know a lot of people think Eric was this great mastermind just because he wrote up this journal lashing out and acting like he was this crazy madman. I don't believe that though. I think he was heavily influenced by Dylan. That's a whole other topic though. So to stay on topic, it is very possible that girls didn't want to date them because of hard they went out of their way to act crazy and dress differently and act violent both in and out of school.

I mean look at Brooks Brown, if he can get a girlfriend, I'm sure Dylan and Eric could have, right? I mean there's got to be some reason the girls didn't like them. I also think they were both way out of their league with the girls they were trying to go after, Eric in particular. Dylan was just lusting over these girls that didn't even know him and he wouldn't even approach them. Eric did try to get girls but they all turned him down.

I can honestly say I never bullied anyone when I was in school and I felt bad for kids that were bullied and even though I was not bullied myself (in high school), I have been bullied as an adult though, I made quite a few friends with kids that were bullied. So I do feel bad that Dylan and Eric were bullied but on the flip side of the coin, they bullied way worse than they were bullied. I mean they had that one kid so scared he didn't even wanna go back to school and Dylan either slapped or punched that one girl during gym class. So I think it was probably all those things combined that made girls not like them.

I don't care if Eric and Dylan looked different, they had no right being bullied period!!! Good gosh if I hear one of my bullies being dead, I'm going to pop the champagne and celebrate.

bradt93 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

shades wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

shades, this was when I was middle school, 25 years ago. I'm now in college. It still hurts a little though. I've been going to therapy ever since. Also, yes they knew who I was.

You don't need them. I had a horrible high school experience too in the beginning. But I also knew my insecurities were all over the place. As far as I'm concerned, most of my past never happened. I hope you're able to deal with it, most importantly forget it. People plummet to their lowest to get shaped up and rise up again.

Yes, also why couldn't Eric and Dylan find girlfriends? I know about Robyn, but what about Eric? Would you of gave them a chance and talked to them?

Asking girls now if they'd give Dylan or Eric a chance is kind of unfair because of the fandom and how infamous they've become. Most girls say that, yes, they would have given both boys a shot. Well, if that were the case, how come neither one of them could find love? Hell, Eric couldn't even find someone to take to the prom just as date, let alone him trying to actually find a girlfriend.

Well, I have aspergers which is a social disorder, they could've had something like that. Also, don't most girls sense something is not right upstairs with some guys?

Maybe. I don't really know what other girls think but I can say that for myself personally, I may have been friends with Dylan and Eric (and that's a pretty big maybe) but I would not have been interested in either of them. And it's not because of their looks (even though I don't really find them attractive but looks isn't always the main thing for me), it's because of how hard they went out of their way to try and act different than everyone else. And also how they acted violent all the time, making videos of themselves killing people, writing stories about killing people, dressing like weird German Nazi's or whatever the hell that look Chris Morris and Dylan were trying to achieve with the berets and German T-shirts.

They may have had some bullying done to them at Columbine but they went out of their way not to fit in. Back in Eric's earlier years, before he got all messed up with Dylan, he used to dress preppy. He had a lot of friends who said that he was a really nice kid, he got along with everyone and that they were shocked that it was actually him who was involved in Columbine. I know a lot of people think Eric was this great mastermind just because he wrote up this journal lashing out and acting like he was this crazy madman. I don't believe that though. I think he was heavily influenced by Dylan. That's a whole other topic though. So to stay on topic, it is very possible that girls didn't want to date them because of hard they went out of their way to act crazy and dress differently and act violent both in and out of school.

I mean look at Brooks Brown, if he can get a girlfriend, I'm sure Dylan and Eric could have, right? I mean there's got to be some reason the girls didn't like them. I also think they were both way out of their league with the girls they were trying to go after, Eric in particular. Dylan was just lusting over these girls that didn't even know him and he wouldn't even approach them. Eric did try to get girls but they all turned him down.

I can honestly say I never bullied anyone when I was in school and I felt bad for kids that were bullied and even though I was not bullied myself (in high school), I have been bullied as an adult though, I made quite a few friends with kids that were bullied. So I do feel bad that Dylan and Eric were bullied but on the flip side of the coin, they bullied way worse than they were bullied. I mean they had that one kid so scared he didn't even wanna go back to school and Dylan either slapped or punched that one girl during gym class. So I think it was probably all those things combined that made girls not like them.

I don't care if Eric and Dylan looked different, they had no right being bullied period!!! Good gosh if I hear one of my bullies being dead, I'm going to pop the champagne and celebrate.

Bullying sucks period. No one deserves to be bullied. But there are always going to be people that get their self esteem by stealing it from others.

Well, I think self defense courses should be mandatory in schools.

I think people should be raised to be decent human beings but unfortunately belittling seems to be part of human nature. Some of us are bred with insecurities, while others have egos.

shades wrote:

I think people should be raised to be decent human beings but unfortunately belittling seems to be part of human nature. Some of us are bred with insecurities, while others have egos.

Well, they can take their insecurities and egos and shove them while they are laying in the hospital, because bullies will piss off the wrong person and that's what will happen.

shades wrote:

I think people should be raised to be decent human beings but unfortunately belittling seems to be part of human nature. Some of us are bred with insecurities, while others have egos.

Unfortunately you are sounding like one of those teachers who tells the victims of bullying "kids will be kids" that shit shouldn't fly anymore. They need to be suspended or expelled from the school.

bradt93 wrote:

Unfortunately you are sounding like one of those teachers who tells the victims of bullying "kids will be kids" that shit shouldn't fly anymore. They need to be suspended or expelled from the school.

My dear, no I don't. Cause you're not reading deeper. It's not kids will be kids, it's humans will be humans. Adults are bullies, patronising and abusive too. You will see it everywhere you go. It's NOT just a high school thing. What matters is how you fight it if you are a victim of this, how you stop it if you are a witness of this, and how you help if the victim is someone who can't defend themselves aka mentally challenged/disabled.

I don't believe bullying was the cause of Columbine. Eric and Dylan did not target bullies in the shooting. When explaining their own motivations, they did not cite revenge for bullying. In the 11K, 17 people, including Robyn Anderson, say they never saw Eric or Dylan harassed. 20 or so say they saw them picked on for their clothes, while others mention that the harassment was "mild" (only one says it was "relentless").

By contrast, 28 people, including their close associates Chris Morris (8897) and Devon Adams (10616), say that Harris and Klebold bullied others.

When people say Eric and Dylan were motivated by bullying, they are projecting their own feelings onto Eric and Dylan. Millions of kids are bullied. Only Eric and Dylan committed Columbine.

lasttrain wrote:

I don't believe bullying was the cause of Columbine. Eric and Dylan did not target bullies in the shooting. When explaining their own motivations, they did not cite revenge for bullying. In the 11K, 17 people, including Robyn Anderson, say they never saw Eric or Dylan harassed. 20 or so say they saw them picked on for their clothes, while others mention that the harassment was "mild" (only one says it was "relentless").

By contrast, 28 people, including their close associates Chris Morris (8897) and Devon Adams (10616), say that Harris and Klebold bullied others.

When people say Eric and Dylan were motivated by bullying, they are projecting their own feelings onto Eric and Dylan. Millions of kids are bullied. Only Eric and Dylan committed Columbine.

For once you and I can agree on something. I do not believe that bullying was a main reason behind Columbine either. And I also believe that Dylan and Eric bullied way worse than they were bullied. If they were picked on, like you said, I think it was because of how they purposely went out of their way to dress like outcasts and stand out. I read about Dylan slapping a girl in gym class and him bullying one kid so bad he didn't wanna come back to school. I have never read anything about Dylan or Eric being physically abused by anyone.

Jenn wrote:

lasttrain wrote:

I don't believe bullying was the cause of Columbine. Eric and Dylan did not target bullies in the shooting. When explaining their own motivations, they did not cite revenge for bullying. In the 11K, 17 people, including Robyn Anderson, say they never saw Eric or Dylan harassed. 20 or so say they saw them picked on for their clothes, while others mention that the harassment was "mild" (only one says it was "relentless").

By contrast, 28 people, including their close associates Chris Morris (8897) and Devon Adams (10616), say that Harris and Klebold bullied others.

When people say Eric and Dylan were motivated by bullying, they are projecting their own feelings onto Eric and Dylan. Millions of kids are bullied. Only Eric and Dylan committed Columbine.

For once you and I can agree on something. I do not believe that bullying was a main reason behind Columbine either. And I also believe that Dylan and Eric bullied way worse than they were bullied. If they were picked on, like you said, I think it was because of how they purposely went out of their way to dress like outcasts and stand out. I read about Dylan slapping a girl in gym class and him bullying one kid so bad he didn't wanna come back to school. I have never read anything about Dylan or Eric being physically abused by anyone.

Does it really matter what type of freaking clothes they wear? Everyone deserves to be treated with kindness, don't just assume the worst in someone, just because of how they dress.

I think I read an account (not sure if it was true) of Eric getting hit in the face repeatedly with a dodgeball after gym class due to his team winning a game against a team of jocks or something along those lines. I also saw a note between him and a girl in one of his classes who was asking Eric to remove her boyfriend from his "kill list", and Eric referenced the guy hitting him in the face and that being why he was on the list. The details are fuzzy as it's been a while since I read these things, so I apologize if I'm remembering it wrong. Those are the only actual accounts I've read about physical abuse towards e&d, other than Eric supposedly being slammed against the lockers occasionally.

bradt93 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

lasttrain wrote:

I don't believe bullying was the cause of Columbine. Eric and Dylan did not target bullies in the shooting. When explaining their own motivations, they did not cite revenge for bullying. In the 11K, 17 people, including Robyn Anderson, say they never saw Eric or Dylan harassed. 20 or so say they saw them picked on for their clothes, while others mention that the harassment was "mild" (only one says it was "relentless").

By contrast, 28 people, including their close associates Chris Morris (8897) and Devon Adams (10616), say that Harris and Klebold bullied others.

When people say Eric and Dylan were motivated by bullying, they are projecting their own feelings onto Eric and Dylan. Millions of kids are bullied. Only Eric and Dylan committed Columbine.

For once you and I can agree on something. I do not believe that bullying was a main reason behind Columbine either. And I also believe that Dylan and Eric bullied way worse than they were bullied. If they were picked on, like you said, I think it was because of how they purposely went out of their way to dress like outcasts and stand out. I read about Dylan slapping a girl in gym class and him bullying one kid so bad he didn't wanna come back to school. I have never read anything about Dylan or Eric being physically abused by anyone.

Does it really matter what type of freaking clothes they wear? Everyone deserves to be treated with kindness, don't just assume the worst in someone, just because of how they dress.

To me? No it doesn't matter to me what they wore or what anyone wears. Quit acting like I'm talking about me personally. I am saying what my opinion is on why the other kids may have picked on them. Did you not read where I said that I never picked on anyone? And yea, people do deserve to be treated nicely but they should also treat others nicely in return but Dylan and Eric didn't. Several of people said they picked on other kids. I see you constantly ignore that though and just carry on about Dylan and Eric being "bullied".

By your comments to me and other people in this thread, I get the instinct feeling that no matter what anyone says to you, you're just going to stick up for Dylan and Eric, carrying on about how they were "bullied" all because you yourself are unable to forget something that happened to you over 25 years ago and basically said you wished the people who bullied you in middle school were dead and how happy you'd be if they died. So I'll just leave this thread now. I don't know you or what you went through but I hope that someday you can get over what happened to you in middle school cuz it's not good to keep carrying that around.

Jenn wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

lasttrain wrote:

I don't believe bullying was the cause of Columbine. Eric and Dylan did not target bullies in the shooting. When explaining their own motivations, they did not cite revenge for bullying. In the 11K, 17 people, including Robyn Anderson, say they never saw Eric or Dylan harassed. 20 or so say they saw them picked on for their clothes, while others mention that the harassment was "mild" (only one says it was "relentless").

By contrast, 28 people, including their close associates Chris Morris (8897) and Devon Adams (10616), say that Harris and Klebold bullied others.

When people say Eric and Dylan were motivated by bullying, they are projecting their own feelings onto Eric and Dylan. Millions of kids are bullied. Only Eric and Dylan committed Columbine.

For once you and I can agree on something. I do not believe that bullying was a main reason behind Columbine either. And I also believe that Dylan and Eric bullied way worse than they were bullied. If they were picked on, like you said, I think it was because of how they purposely went out of their way to dress like outcasts and stand out. I read about Dylan slapping a girl in gym class and him bullying one kid so bad he didn't wanna come back to school. I have never read anything about Dylan or Eric being physically abused by anyone.

Does it really matter what type of freaking clothes they wear? Everyone deserves to be treated with kindness, don't just assume the worst in someone, just because of how they dress.

To me? No it doesn't matter to me what they wore or what anyone wears. Quit acting like I'm talking about me personally. I am saying what my opinion is on why the other kids may have picked on them. Did you not read where I said that I never picked on anyone? And yea, people do deserve to be treated nicely but they should also treat others nicely in return but Dylan and Eric didn't. Several of people said they picked on other kids. I see you constantly ignore that though and just carry on about Dylan and Eric being "bullied".

By your comments to me and other people in this thread, I get the instinct feeling that no matter what anyone says to you, you're just going to stick up for Dylan and Eric, carrying on about how they were "bullied" all because you yourself are unable to forget something that happened to you over 25 years ago and basically said you wished the people who bullied you in middle school were dead and how happy you'd be if they died. So I'll just leave this thread now. I don't know you or what you went through but I hope that someday you can get over what happened to you in middle school cuz it's not good to keep carrying that around.

Sorry, I meant 15 years ago and I am over it. I know they bullied too, it's just a sad situation altogether.

Jenn wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

lasttrain wrote:

I don't believe bullying was the cause of Columbine. Eric and Dylan did not target bullies in the shooting. When explaining their own motivations, they did not cite revenge for bullying. In the 11K, 17 people, including Robyn Anderson, say they never saw Eric or Dylan harassed. 20 or so say they saw them picked on for their clothes, while others mention that the harassment was "mild" (only one says it was "relentless").

By contrast, 28 people, including their close associates Chris Morris (8897) and Devon Adams (10616), say that Harris and Klebold bullied others.

When people say Eric and Dylan were motivated by bullying, they are projecting their own feelings onto Eric and Dylan. Millions of kids are bullied. Only Eric and Dylan committed Columbine.

For once you and I can agree on something. I do not believe that bullying was a main reason behind Columbine either. And I also believe that Dylan and Eric bullied way worse than they were bullied. If they were picked on, like you said, I think it was because of how they purposely went out of their way to dress like outcasts and stand out. I read about Dylan slapping a girl in gym class and him bullying one kid so bad he didn't wanna come back to school. I have never read anything about Dylan or Eric being physically abused by anyone.

Does it really matter what type of freaking clothes they wear? Everyone deserves to be treated with kindness, don't just assume the worst in someone, just because of how they dress.

To me? No it doesn't matter to me what they wore or what anyone wears. Quit acting like I'm talking about me personally. I am saying what my opinion is on why the other kids may have picked on them. Did you not read where I said that I never picked on anyone? And yea, people do deserve to be treated nicely but they should also treat others nicely in return but Dylan and Eric didn't. Several of people said they picked on other kids. I see you constantly ignore that though and just carry on about Dylan and Eric being "bullied".

By your comments to me and other people in this thread, I get the instinct feeling that no matter what anyone says to you, you're just going to stick up for Dylan and Eric, carrying on about how they were "bullied" all because you yourself are unable to forget something that happened to you over 25 years ago and basically said you wished the people who bullied you in middle school were dead and how happy you'd be if they died. So I'll just leave this thread now. I don't know you or what you went through but I hope that someday you can get over what happened to you in middle school cuz it's not good to keep carrying that around.

Also, I apologize to you, I didn't mean you personally. This is just personal to me and a deep topic. So I'm sorry.

bradt93 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

lasttrain wrote:

I don't believe bullying was the cause of Columbine. Eric and Dylan did not target bullies in the shooting. When explaining their own motivations, they did not cite revenge for bullying. In the 11K, 17 people, including Robyn Anderson, say they never saw Eric or Dylan harassed. 20 or so say they saw them picked on for their clothes, while others mention that the harassment was "mild" (only one says it was "relentless").

By contrast, 28 people, including their close associates Chris Morris (8897) and Devon Adams (10616), say that Harris and Klebold bullied others.

When people say Eric and Dylan were motivated by bullying, they are projecting their own feelings onto Eric and Dylan. Millions of kids are bullied. Only Eric and Dylan committed Columbine.

For once you and I can agree on something. I do not believe that bullying was a main reason behind Columbine either. And I also believe that Dylan and Eric bullied way worse than they were bullied. If they were picked on, like you said, I think it was because of how they purposely went out of their way to dress like outcasts and stand out. I read about Dylan slapping a girl in gym class and him bullying one kid so bad he didn't wanna come back to school. I have never read anything about Dylan or Eric being physically abused by anyone.

Does it really matter what type of freaking clothes they wear? Everyone deserves to be treated with kindness, don't just assume the worst in someone, just because of how they dress.

To me? No it doesn't matter to me what they wore or what anyone wears. Quit acting like I'm talking about me personally. I am saying what my opinion is on why the other kids may have picked on them. Did you not read where I said that I never picked on anyone? And yea, people do deserve to be treated nicely but they should also treat others nicely in return but Dylan and Eric didn't. Several of people said they picked on other kids. I see you constantly ignore that though and just carry on about Dylan and Eric being "bullied".

By your comments to me and other people in this thread, I get the instinct feeling that no matter what anyone says to you, you're just going to stick up for Dylan and Eric, carrying on about how they were "bullied" all because you yourself are unable to forget something that happened to you over 25 years ago and basically said you wished the people who bullied you in middle school were dead and how happy you'd be if they died. So I'll just leave this thread now. I don't know you or what you went through but I hope that someday you can get over what happened to you in middle school cuz it's not good to keep carrying that around.

Also, I apologize to you, I didn't mean you personally. This is just personal to me and a deep topic. So I'm sorry.

No need to apologize. I completely understand what it's like to be bullied and how it's hard to let go of it and it can make you very insecure and that insecurity carries over into other relationships. And I don't just mean romantic relationships. Relationships with friends and with family also.

I've been into Columbine for a long time now and my personal opinion is that I believe that one of the reasons Dylan and Eric were made fun of is because of how they dressed. Eric said something like that in his journal. I also believe they were picked on mildly compared to what a lot of other kids go through. It doesn't mean I agree with it because I don't.

I also don't think bullying was the main reason behind Columbine. I used to back in my earlier years but now I think the main thing that sparked it was Dylan's depression and Dylan's anger and jealousy towards others he believed had it better than him and had the things he wanted. Dylan was the first one to bring up going on a shooting and it would be too much of a coincidence that both Dylan and Eric thought of it at the same time. I think Dylan brought the idea to Eric and used Eric to prepare the entire thing. I honestly believe Dylan wanted to commit suicide and this was the only way he was gonna go through with it.

Anyway, I appreciate the apology but it wasn't needed. I understand where you're coming from.

Jenn wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

lasttrain wrote:

I don't believe bullying was the cause of Columbine. Eric and Dylan did not target bullies in the shooting. When explaining their own motivations, they did not cite revenge for bullying. In the 11K, 17 people, including Robyn Anderson, say they never saw Eric or Dylan harassed. 20 or so say they saw them picked on for their clothes, while others mention that the harassment was "mild" (only one says it was "relentless").

By contrast, 28 people, including their close associates Chris Morris (8897) and Devon Adams (10616), say that Harris and Klebold bullied others.

When people say Eric and Dylan were motivated by bullying, they are projecting their own feelings onto Eric and Dylan. Millions of kids are bullied. Only Eric and Dylan committed Columbine.

For once you and I can agree on something. I do not believe that bullying was a main reason behind Columbine either. And I also believe that Dylan and Eric bullied way worse than they were bullied. If they were picked on, like you said, I think it was because of how they purposely went out of their way to dress like outcasts and stand out. I read about Dylan slapping a girl in gym class and him bullying one kid so bad he didn't wanna come back to school. I have never read anything about Dylan or Eric being physically abused by anyone.

Does it really matter what type of freaking clothes they wear? Everyone deserves to be treated with kindness, don't just assume the worst in someone, just because of how they dress.

To me? No it doesn't matter to me what they wore or what anyone wears. Quit acting like I'm talking about me personally. I am saying what my opinion is on why the other kids may have picked on them. Did you not read where I said that I never picked on anyone? And yea, people do deserve to be treated nicely but they should also treat others nicely in return but Dylan and Eric didn't. Several of people said they picked on other kids. I see you constantly ignore that though and just carry on about Dylan and Eric being "bullied".

By your comments to me and other people in this thread, I get the instinct feeling that no matter what anyone says to you, you're just going to stick up for Dylan and Eric, carrying on about how they were "bullied" all because you yourself are unable to forget something that happened to you over 25 years ago and basically said you wished the people who bullied you in middle school were dead and how happy you'd be if they died. So I'll just leave this thread now. I don't know you or what you went through but I hope that someday you can get over what happened to you in middle school cuz it's not good to keep carrying that around.

Also, I apologize to you, I didn't mean you personally. This is just personal to me and a deep topic. So I'm sorry.

No need to apologize. I completely understand what it's like to be bullied and how it's hard to let go of it and it can make you very insecure and that insecurity carries over into other relationships. And I don't just mean romantic relationships. Relationships with friends and with family also.

I've been into Columbine for a long time now and my personal opinion is that I believe that one of the reasons Dylan and Eric were made fun of is because of how they dressed. Eric said something like that in his journal. I also believe they were picked on mildly compared to what a lot of other kids go through. It doesn't mean I agree with it because I don't.

I also don't think bullying was the main reason behind Columbine. I used to back in my earlier years but now I think the main thing that sparked it was Dylan's depression and Dylan's anger and jealousy towards others he believed had it better than him and had the things he wanted. Dylan was the first one to bring up going on a shooting and it would be too much of a coincidence that both Dylan and Eric thought of it at the same time. I think Dylan brought the idea to Eric and used Eric to prepare the entire thing. I honestly believe Dylan wanted to commit suicide and this was the only way he was gonna go through with it.

Anyway, I appreciate the apology but it wasn't needed. I understand where you're coming from.

Some people say it was Eric behind the whole thing, so I'm not sure.

Kiwik wrote:

I think I read an account (not sure if it was true) of Eric getting hit in the face repeatedly with a dodgeball after gym class due to his team winning a game against a team of jocks or something along those lines. I also saw a note between him and a girl in one of his classes who was asking Eric to remove her boyfriend from his "kill list", and Eric referenced the guy hitting him in the face and that being why he was on the list. The details are fuzzy as it's been a while since I read these things, so I apologize if I'm remembering it wrong. Those are the only actual accounts I've read about physical abuse towards e&d, other than Eric supposedly being slammed against the lockers occasionally.

Yes this was in the 11k

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

There is a document that breaks down the 11k by theme and you can see the pages that relate to Eric and Dylan being bullied, and also them bullying others

What I don't get is why wouldn't anyone do anything to help them when they got pelted with tampons and ketchup packs? Why weren't anyone in trouble for it? Those are the questions I have.

"Why wouldn't anyone do anything to help them?"

Because schools, particularly back then before Columbine itself triggered a lot of anti-bullying movements, typically turned a blind eye to that sort of thing. I personally think getting pounded or beaten up is a lot worse than getting some ketchup on you.

(copied from another post)

The deluded, immature teenage mind would file it as "the whole school wronged me." You end up hating the institution for the bad memories it provided you with. Hell, *I'm* guilty of that--and I'm pathetic for it. I admit it. I'm still angry about dumb things that happened to me when I was 13, just because the bad memories of embarrassing (in the small picture) but ultimately trivial (in the big picture) events never go away, and because I have some OCD/perfectionism about me too, like a lot of kids do.

So when I think about my own high school today, it's largely negative, even though I could easily look up stories of "bullying" that are three hundred times worse than what happened to me, which is to say a few smacks in the head from kids who were bigger than me, loudly being told to shut up when I said something iffy in class, the occasional small harrassment, and getting in trouble a lot for silly little things. I didn't suffer from eating disorders, or get my face seriously pounded in, or sexual humiliations, or lose a best friend or family member to suicide, or serious "trouble" (drugs, pregnancy, abortion, etc.) or (since I was in high school from 1996 to 2001) Facebook hounding, any of that...the problem seems to have gotten worse than it was then. The truth was a)high school mostly sucked because of the tedium and boredom and crappy classes and minefield of trying to avoid pissing teachers off, and b)even if it did suck, and even though I'll say "high school? it sucked," I do miss the few friends that I had. It's just that the few "bad incidents" have never left my mind and have subsequently been distorted out of all proportion just because they won't go away--and my ability to admit that is largely self-congratulatory rather than anything that helps me forget the bad memories.

Thank God for college--but that's a whole different topic, and now everyone bashes college as an institution even more than they bash high school!

What I'm trying to say: people, myself included, are self-pitying, for the most part. About anything they can pity themselves for.

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:

"Why wouldn't anyone do anything to help them?"

Because schools, particularly back then before Columbine itself triggered a lot of anti-bullying movements, typically turned a blind eye to that sort of thing.  I personally think getting pounded or beaten up is a lot worse than getting some ketchup on you.  

(copied from another post)

The deluded, immature teenage mind would file it as "the whole school wronged me." You end up hating the institution for the bad memories it provided you with. Hell, *I'm* guilty of that--and I'm pathetic for it. I admit it. I'm still angry about dumb things that happened to me when I was 13, just because the bad memories of embarrassing (in the small picture) but ultimately trivial (in the big picture) events never go away, and because I have some OCD/perfectionism about me too, like a lot of kids do.

So when I think about my own high school today, it's largely negative, even though I could easily look up stories of "bullying" that are three hundred times worse than what happened to me, which is to say a few smacks in the head from kids who were bigger than me, loudly being told to shut up when I said something iffy in class, the occasional small harrassment, and getting in trouble a lot for silly little things. I didn't suffer from eating disorders, or get my face seriously pounded in, or sexual humiliations, or lose a best friend or family member to suicide, or serious "trouble" (drugs, pregnancy, abortion, etc.) or (since I was in high school from 1996 to 2001) Facebook hounding, any of that...the problem seems to have gotten worse than it was then. The truth was a)high school mostly sucked because of the tedium and boredom and crappy classes and minefield of trying to avoid pissing teachers off, and b)even if it did suck, and even though I'll say "high school? it sucked," I do miss the few friends that I had. It's just that the few "bad incidents" have never left my mind and have subsequently been distorted out of all proportion just because they won't go away--and my ability to admit that is largely self-congratulatory rather than anything that helps me forget the bad memories.

Thank God for college--but that's a whole different topic, and now everyone bashes college as an institution even more than they bash high school!

What I'm trying to say: people, myself included, are self-pitying, for the most part. About anything they can pity themselves for.

Yes, I went to a private high school and they didn't have a prom, that's the only thing I would've missed in a public high school.

I watched a bullying video on YT and a guy made fun of this girl and his sister found about it and told him she was crying in class and he said "we are just doing it for fun" then his sister made him realize what he did was wrong and at the end of it, he told his victim, I am so sorry. It was very nice and that's how bullying should be stopped.

"Yes, I went to a private high school and they didn't have a prom, that's the only thing I would've missed in a public high school."

I thought my junior prom was so lame and boring that I didn't even attend the second one.

bradt93 wrote:

What I don't get is why wouldn't anyone do anything to help them when they got pelted with tampons and ketchup packs? Why weren't anyone in trouble for it? Those are the questions I have.

I don't believe that Eric and Dylan were ever pelted with ketchup packets and tampons.

First of all, no one in the 11k says anything about it and every student at the school was interviewed in great detail about any bullying incidents involving Eric and Dylan.

The only somewhat first-hand account of this incident is from Chad Laughlin, who told Alan Predergast that it happened junior year. Laughlin says he did not see it but "caught the tail end of it." According to Laughlin it was just Dylan, not Eric, and it was ketchup-covered tampons.

Brooks Brown, who did not witness the incident and reports it second-hand, later stated that this incident happened in January. This makes it sync with the reference to "January's incident" in the killers' plans. Also, Brown says it is both Dylan and Eric, adding Eric to Laughlin's account. Brown also says that "people surrounded them . . . calling them faggots" and that "teachers watched," even though not a single student recalls seeing this happen. So Brown, who did not witness it, has added three things to Laughlin's account--that it happened in January, that Eric was there too, and that large numbers of students and teachers surrounded the pair. Brown also subtracts one thing from Laughlin's account--Laughlin says it was tampons and Brown says it was just ketchup.

Later Susan Klebold told Andrew Solomon that she saw Dylan come home one day with ketchup on his shirt and he said he'd had "the worst day of his life." She told Solomon that after Dylan's death she was told "of an incident in which Dylan and Eric had apparently been shoved and squirted with ketchup by kids calling them fags." She repeated the story in her book, attributing it to "reporting" rather than a story she was told. I don't know who told Sue Klebold this story, but you can see that it has now expanded even more in the version she heard--the pair is now being shoved in addition to being squirted with ketchup.

So we go from Chad Laughlin's eyewitness account of Dylan with ketchup on his shirt to a story of Eric and Dylan surrounded by a gang of students who are shoving them, yelling homophobic slurs, and squirting them with ketchup, while teachers watch approvingly in front of the entire cafeteria.

More than likely what happened was Dylan had ketchup squirted on his shirt in a minor incident not witnessed by any of his friends and after the shooting it was blown up into both Eric and Dylan being mass assaulted by hundreds of homophobic jocks while teachers looked on. And the reason it was blown up is because people were looking for a motive.

[quote="bradt93"][quote="Jenn"]

lasttrain wrote:

For once you and I can agree on something. I do not believe that bullying was a main reason behind Columbine either. And I also believe that Dylan and Eric bullied way worse than they were bullied.

It's interesting to read and listen to what Brooks Brown wrote and said about bullying at Columbine on his tumblr page and various T.V. documentaries. I think he had said that Eric and Dylan never bullied anyone but were constantly bullied; and then in the same breath, he will talk about his own bullying. He wrote on tumblr about a jock throwing a baseball at him, hitting him in the face. I am not suggesting that Brooks made this up, but I believe he is trying very hard to fit the motive to the crime.

Has anyone ever experienced bullying like this where the popular girls come up to you and start acting perfect in front of your face?

If anyone had approached me like that in high school, I would beat the crap out of them.

Also, why didn't Eric and Dylan just kill the bullies? Why go after innocent victims who did nothing to them?

bradt93 wrote:

Also, why didn't Eric and Dylan just kill the bullies? Why go after innocent victims who did nothing to them?

There are theories but some of them are that they wanted to kill everyone regardless of bully status. That the bullies were not the main target. That they didn't really even have a target. They wanted to kill as many as they could.

Well, I know if I saw Evan Todd, I would punch that guy right in the face. I would say, you bullied kids huh, let's see how you like it when you are on the receiving end.

I am not convinced that Evan Todd ever bullied anyone, despite what he says.

After people suffer a mass violence incident, they will often develop fantasies of retribution as a way of coping with the trauma.

Todd's admission to bullying is very vague and refer to "the whole school," not anything he specifically did. To me it sounds like a coping mechanism, a way of trying to recover a sense of initiative after Eric and Dylan had mentally damaged him.

Apparently neither Eric nor Dylan recognized him. Remember, Eric was the person who went through the entire yearbook and vandalized every picture. Eric would have remembered if Evan Todd had bullied him.

Well, he sounded like a total asshole and he just rubs me the wrong way.

I think [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is spot on with his assessment. Plus, in 1999 a guy's masculinity and sexuality was sensitive and a gay slur hurled at a straight guy could end in a brawl. Perhaps Mr. Todd was docile as a house cat, but he needed to appear macho and masculine. Perhaps not. Maybe he was a bully, but I would think Eric or Dylan would have mentioned his name if he were such a big bully.

I'm not saying it's right, but few of us have lived through such an ordeal. In coming to terms with it, especially in 1999 (and I have to stress, it really was a different time), maybe he needed to feel macho and tough in order to work through it, like he had at least been involved in some way in order to explain what happened to him.

I would like to think, like all of us who came of age around then, he is an entirely different person today. Although, with what happened to him, there is no norm, no statistic and really no right answer with who he may be today. I have read stories of other survivors who have struggled so heartbreakingly with addiction and other issues. No one deserved what happened to them and certainly the after effects are seemingly never ending. It's a tragedy.

Sorry to ramble.

Well said and I don't think he should be criticized on this board.

bradt93 wrote:

Well, I know if I saw Evan Todd, I would punch that guy right in the face. I would say, you bullied kids huh, let's see how you like it when you are on the receiving end.

Look, you need to knock it off with all this violent talk directed towards the victims of Columbine. And that is exactly what Evan Todd was - a victim. Not only was he injured when the 2 murderers were shooting their guns at him but Dylan also harassed him, called him names, was making fun of him and was threatening him with a gun knowing that the kid had no way to defend himself. You don't like him and he rubs you the wrong way, well OK, that's fine but saying you're gonna kick his ass and all this other violent talk is not OK and I'd appreciate it if you left those kind of comments off the board.

I don't think Evan Todd was as much of a bully as claimed. Yes I think he probably was a jock and wearing a white hat, but if you just look at the guy he isn't really what Eric and Dylan claimed to hate. He was overweight and not gorgeous by any means. I think Dylan looked into his face and saw the fear and panic he wanted. I dont think either Eric or Dylan really did recognize him as someone that "tortured" them at all simply because I don't think he did.
He may have been around when bullying occurred and laughed about it or not tried to stop it but I doubt he did any real bullying himself.

If hate is too strong of a word and you would rather choose to say blame, is it easier to divert it all towards bullies or killers?
On one end you have people who pick on others and bring others down incessantly and they end up getting away with it because it's near impossible to put a stop on one when there's a cluster of them, while the other you have people tired of it and decide to put matters in their own hands by 'seeking revenge', bringing their story out by killing. Being murderers.

When you end up as a murderer, what you do is wrong and it outweighs being a bully. Suddenly the bully is a victim if he almost had his life taken away by someone opposite of him with a gun. What are your thoughts and where do you stand?

I don't agree with murder. It doesn't matter to me who is killed. But murder in and of itself is wrong period to me.
I guess I value mercy as opposed to justice. This is religion based for me. I believe God is the judge not myself. He will pass the justice.