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AZ20




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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 20, 2020 8:49 pm

bradt93 wrote:
Jenn wrote:
bradt93 wrote:
shades wrote:
bradt93 wrote:
shades, this was when I was middle school, 25 years ago. I'm now in college. It still hurts a little though. I've been going to therapy ever since. Also, yes they knew who I was.

You don't need them. I had a horrible high school experience too in the beginning. But I also knew my insecurities were all over the place. As far as I'm concerned, most of my past never happened. I hope you're able to deal with it, most importantly forget it. People plummet to their lowest to get shaped up and rise up again.
Yes, also why couldn't Eric and Dylan find girlfriends? I know about Robyn, but what about Eric? Would you of gave them a chance and talked to them?
Asking girls now if they'd give Dylan or Eric a chance is kind of unfair because of the fandom and how infamous they've become. Most girls say that, yes, they would have given both boys a shot. Well, if that were the case, how come neither one of them could find love? Hell, Eric couldn't even find someone to take to the prom just as date, let alone him trying to actually find a girlfriend.
Well, I have aspergers which is a social disorder, they could've had something like that. Also, don't most girls sense something is not right upstairs with some guys?

I think this is where things get a little blurry. Yes, Eric and Dylan were bullied. Does that mean they have a free pass to shoot people? Absolutely not, but this is where mental health issues come into play. A person who is stable realizes this is not an acceptable way to handle bullying. However, in the minds of those not quite so in touch with reality... or who have mental health issue, it can seem like a reasonable option. Dylan mentions being scared and nervous going into school as far back as 1997...being scared of a guy in his gym class. We know Eric and Dylan had ketchup squirted on them. Feces and bottles tossed at them and the administration provided no help. Eric and Dylan realized this, that no one was going to protect them and their bullies would go unpunished, as did other students at Columbine. From their perspective, with their own major mental issues also at play, what is left but to fight fire with fire? They turned into what they hated. Bullies. They hated the school and everything about it...and lashed out at innocent students. They were a perfect storm. But I don't think we can conclude that mental health issues weren't part of the issue.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 20, 2020 9:41 pm

[quote="AZ20"]
bradt93 wrote:
Jenn wrote:
bradt93 wrote:
shades wrote:
bradt93 wrote:
shades, this was when I was middle school, 25 years ago. I'm now in college. It still hurts a little though. I've been going to therapy ever since. Also, yes they knew who I was.

You don't need them. I had a horrible high school experience too in the beginning. But I also knew my insecurities were all over the place. As far as I'm concerned, most of my past never happened. I hope you're able to deal with it, most importantly forget it. People plummet to their lowest to get shaped up and rise up again.
Yes, also why couldn't Eric and Dylan find girlfriends? I know about Robyn, but what about Eric? Would you of gave them a chance and talked to them?
Asking girls now if they'd give Dylan or Eric a chance is kind of unfair because of the fandom and how infamous they've become. Most girls say that, yes, they would have given both boys a shot. Well, if that were the case, how come neither one of them could find love? Hell, Eric couldn't even find someone to take to the prom just as date, let alone him trying to actually find a girlfriend.
Well, I have aspergers which is a social disorder, they could've had something like that. Also, don't most girls sense something is not right upstairs with some guys?

I think this is where things get a little blurry. Yes, Eric and Dylan were bullied. Does that mean they have a free pass to shoot people? Absolutely not, but this is where mental health issues come into play. A person who is stable realizes this is not an acceptable way to handle bullying. However, in the minds of those not quite so in touch with reality... or who have mental health issue, it can seem like a reasonable option. Dylan mentions being scared and nervous going into school as far back as 1997...being scared of a guy in his gym class. We know Eric and Dylan had ketchup squirted on them. Feces and bottles tossed at them and the administration provided no help. Eric and Dylan realized this, that no one was going to protect them and their bullies would go unpunished, as did other students at Columbine. From their perspective, with their own major mental issues also at play, what is left but to fight fire with fire? They turned into what they hated. Bullies. They hated the school and everything about it...and lashed out at innocent students. They were a perfect storm. But I don't think we can conclude that mental health issues weren't part of the issue. [/quote

Its not certain that Eric and Dylan were bullied. Even Sue Klebold admits to that. Depression was definately a part of it. I think Harris was more interested in playing God, and everything else was just collateral damage. He didnt care who he targeted, because, well, jocks, christians, minorities, doesnt mean shit to Eric.

Dylan, on the other hand, is a bit more complicated. He, of course, was depressed and suicidal. And theres this debate over wether or not Dylan was much more of a follower of Harris. When people point this out, its videly asumed that Cullen came up with this and that somehow this suggests that Dylan suggests that Dylan was not an equal participant. What it actually means is that Dylan went along to get along. It suggests that Dylan had a depency on Harris.


Peter Langmann wrote this in hes book Why Kids kill. He draws parallells between two couple school shooters.

One is Harris and Klebold. The other is Andrew Golden and Mitchell Johnson. He suggests that when there are peer influence, the one relies on a more depend type in order to participate in a mass shooting. The one is dominant, the other one is a follower. That is not to say both are not equally responsible, but its to say that you have a more dominant person relying on a Weaker person,and vice versa.

As far as Ive read, Klebold seemed very dependant on people around him. Atleast, thats the impression that I have, and that somehow this evolved into an extreme dependance on Harris.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 20, 2020 9:56 pm

The Ketchup incident is mentioned by Lance Kirklin, Brooks Brown and Sue Klebold suggests that she believes this incident did occur. Must have been an awful day.

Dylan doesnt say that hes Scared of a guy in gym class. He says 'thinking about that asshole something and how he worries me'. He also talks about being affraid of going yo school, but theres more to the story there. I believe he says hes affraid of going to school feeling different.

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 21, 2020 10:55 am

Norwegian wrote:
The Ketchup incident is mentioned by Lance Kirklin, Brooks Brown and Sue Klebold suggests that she believes this incident did occur. Must have been an awful day.

Dylan doesnt say that hes Scared of a guy in gym class. He says 'thinking about that asshole something and how he worries me'. He also talks about being affraid of going yo school, but theres more to the story there. I believe he says
hes affraid of going to school feeling different.

I believe this is the section you're referring to, in Dylan's same journal entry:

"me- my soul (existence). & the rotine - is still monotonous, go to school, be scared & nervous, somewhat hoping that people can accept me... that i can accept them... the NIN song Piggy is good for thought writing."

Also, Brooks Brown has repeatedly mentioned smoking outside with Eric and Dylan, when a bottle was thrown at them from a moving car. Nathan Vanderau indicated that on one occasion, fecal matter was thrown at Eric and Dylan. Brent O'Neil admitted that Dylan was the brunt of many jokes between his circle of friends, and Dylan may have been aware of this. Danielle Danforth indicated that Dylan once mentioned something to her about being picked on. But refused to elaborate. Jordan Grim admitted to making fun of Dylan whenever he wore his trenchbcoat into the cafeteria. Ryan Walda got into an argument with Dylan over his AOL t-shirt that Ryan said he wore almost every day. Devon was shoved into a locker and called a "fag lover" for associating with Dylan. Robert Perry reported that Eric was picked on Ll the time, taunted and had food thrown at him by other students. During a dodge ball game, kids ganged up on Eric and kept hitting him in the face with balls, and afterward pushed him into lockers. I could go on, but if you don't think all of this is indicative of bullying behavior, you'll never be convinced.

I did like a remark you made about Dylan seeming dependent on Eric,. At first, I was going to disagree...but after giving it some thought, I think you are correct. Dylan was emotionally dependent on his small but close circle of friends. You can see that in how hard Dylan takes it when Devon first enters the picture and begins taking Zach's time away from him. And Dylan does seem to think Eric will be getting further away from him soon, too (in his journal). At the same time, Dylan seems to be the only person that Eric considered a close friend. So that would also make him somewhat dependent, too. Also, while his Type A personality made Eric the more adept planner, the killings spree was mentioned about a year before Dylan began planning with Eric. He seemed to be looking for a partner. The dynamic between the two, considering past research, is one of the reasons I find this case intriguing.

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 21, 2020 1:59 pm

AZ20 wrote:
Norwegian wrote:
The Ketchup incident is mentioned by Lance Kirklin, Brooks Brown and Sue Klebold suggests that she believes this incident did occur. Must have been an awful day.

Dylan doesnt say that hes Scared of a guy in gym class. He says 'thinking about that asshole something and how he worries me'. He also talks about being affraid of going yo school, but theres more to the story there. I believe he says
hes affraid of going to school feeling different.

I believe this is the section you're referring to, in Dylan's same journal entry:

"me- my soul (existence). & the rotine - is still monotonous, go to school, be scared & nervous, somewhat hoping that people can accept me... that i can accept them... the NIN song Piggy is good for thought writing."

Also, Brooks Brown has repeatedly mentioned smoking outside with Eric and Dylan, when a bottle was thrown at them from a moving car. Nathan Vanderau indicated that on one occasion, fecal matter was thrown at Eric and Dylan. Brent O'Neil admitted that Dylan was the brunt of many jokes between his circle of friends, and Dylan may have been aware of this. Danielle Danforth indicated that Dylan once mentioned something to her about being picked on. But refused to elaborate. Jordan Grim admitted to making fun of Dylan whenever he wore his trenchbcoat into the cafeteria. Ryan Walda got into an argument with Dylan over his AOL t-shirt that Ryan said he wore almost every day. Devon was shoved into a locker and called a "fag lover" for associating with Dylan. Robert Perry reported that Eric was picked on Ll the time, taunted and had food thrown at him by other students. During a dodge ball game, kids ganged up on Eric and kept hitting him in the face with balls, and afterward pushed him into lockers.  I could go on, but if you don't think all of this is indicative of bullying behavior, you'll never be convinced.

I did like a remark you made about Dylan seeming dependent on Eric,. At first, I was going to disagree...but after giving it some thought, I think you are correct. Dylan was emotionally dependent on his small but close circle of friends. You can see that in how hard Dylan takes it when Devon first enters the picture and begins taking Zach's time away from him. And Dylan does seem to think Eric will be getting further away from him soon, too (in his journal). At the same time, Dylan seems to be the only person that Eric considered a close friend. So that would also make him somewhat dependent, too. Also, while his Type A personality made Eric the more adept planner, the killings spree was mentioned about a year before Dylan began planning with Eric. He seemed to be looking for a partner. The dynamic between the two, considering past research, is one of the reasons I find this case intriguing.


Nathan Vanderau references the TCM, not Eric and Dylan spescifically. I know what you are refering to. Its from Columbine: Understanding why. This documentary goes back to 2002. Hes asked 'how Where the TCM- members treated', and he says that 'They got picked on pretty badly. They had a cup of fecal matter thrown at them'. I believe that Devon references one particular incident when She got shoved into a locker. And, yes, Brooks suggested that they were bullied, even though I dont exactly recall all the details. Otherwise, these are many examples Ive never heard of and Ill make sure to check them out
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 21, 2020 4:07 pm

Norwegian wrote:
AZ20 wrote:
Norwegian wrote:
The Ketchup incident is mentioned by Lance Kirklin, Brooks Brown and Sue Klebold suggests that she believes this incident did occur. Must have been an awful day.

Dylan doesnt say that hes Scared of a guy in gym class. He says 'thinking about that asshole something and how he worries me'. He also talks about being affraid of going yo school, but theres more to the story there. I believe he says
hes affraid of going to school feeling different.

I believe this is the section you're referring to, in Dylan's same journal entry:

"me- my soul (existence). & the rotine - is still monotonous, go to school, be scared & nervous, somewhat hoping that people can accept me... that i can accept them... the NIN song Piggy is good for thought writing."

Also, Brooks Brown has repeatedly mentioned smoking outside with Eric and Dylan, when a bottle was thrown at them from a moving car. Nathan Vanderau indicated that on one occasion, fecal matter was thrown at Eric and Dylan. Brent O'Neil admitted that Dylan was the brunt of many jokes between his circle of friends, and Dylan may have been aware of this. Danielle Danforth indicated that Dylan once mentioned something to her about being picked on. But refused to elaborate. Jordan Grim admitted to making fun of Dylan whenever he wore his trenchbcoat into the cafeteria. Ryan Walda got into an argument with Dylan over his AOL t-shirt that Ryan said he wore almost every day. Devon was shoved into a locker and called a "fag lover" for associating with Dylan. Robert Perry reported that Eric was picked on Ll the time, taunted and had food thrown at him by other students. During a dodge ball game, kids ganged up on Eric and kept hitting him in the face with balls, and afterward pushed him into lockers.  I could go on, but if you don't think all of this is indicative of bullying behavior, you'll never be convinced.

I did like a remark you made about Dylan seeming dependent on Eric,. At first, I was going to disagree...but after giving it some thought, I think you are correct. Dylan was emotionally dependent on his small but close circle of friends. You can see that in how hard Dylan takes it when Devon first enters the picture and begins taking Zach's time away from him. And Dylan does seem to think Eric will be getting further away from him soon, too (in his journal). At the same time, Dylan seems to be the only person that Eric considered a close friend. So that would also make him somewhat dependent, too. Also, while his Type A personality made Eric the more adept planner, the killings spree was mentioned about a year before Dylan began planning with Eric. He seemed to be looking for a partner. The dynamic between the two, considering past research, is one of the reasons I find this case intriguing.


Nathan Vanderau references the TCM, not Eric and Dylan spescifically. I know what you are refering to. Its from Columbine: Understanding why. This documentary goes back to 2002. Hes asked 'how Where the TCM- members treated', and he says that 'They got picked on pretty badly. They had a cup of fecal matter thrown at them'. I believe that Devon references one particular incident when She got shoved into a locker. And, yes, Brooks suggested that they were bullied, even though I dont exactly recall all the details. Otherwise, these are many examples Ive never heard of and Ill make sure to check them out

Can I ask why you are so convinced they weren't bullied? I mean, I have seen you debate this numerous times... it seems evident they were mistreated and their experiences impacted them, even though it isn't the sole reason. Also, what is your personal opinion on when enough bad behavior qualifies as bullying? Because everyone's tolerance level is different. You might not feel something qualifies as bullying, whereas others feel it does.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 21, 2020 6:29 pm

AZ20 wrote:
Norwegian wrote:
AZ20 wrote:
Norwegian wrote:
The Ketchup incident is mentioned by Lance Kirklin, Brooks Brown and Sue Klebold suggests that she believes this incident did occur. Must have been an awful day.

Dylan doesnt say that hes Scared of a guy in gym class. He says 'thinking about that asshole something and how he worries me'. He also talks about being affraid of going yo school, but theres more to the story there. I believe he says
hes affraid of going to school feeling different.

I believe this is the section you're referring to, in Dylan's same journal entry:

"me- my soul (existence). & the rotine - is still monotonous, go to school, be scared & nervous, somewhat hoping that people can accept me... that i can accept them... the NIN song Piggy is good for thought writing."

Also, Brooks Brown has repeatedly mentioned smoking outside with Eric and Dylan, when a bottle was thrown at them from a moving car. Nathan Vanderau indicated that on one occasion, fecal matter was thrown at Eric and Dylan. Brent O'Neil admitted that Dylan was the brunt of many jokes between his circle of friends, and Dylan may have been aware of this. Danielle Danforth indicated that Dylan once mentioned something to her about being picked on. But refused to elaborate. Jordan Grim admitted to making fun of Dylan whenever he wore his trenchbcoat into the cafeteria. Ryan Walda got into an argument with Dylan over his AOL t-shirt that Ryan said he wore almost every day. Devon was shoved into a locker and called a "fag lover" for associating with Dylan. Robert Perry reported that Eric was picked on Ll the time, taunted and had food thrown at him by other students. During a dodge ball game, kids ganged up on Eric and kept hitting him in the face with balls, and afterward pushed him into lockers.  I could go on, but if you don't think all of this is indicative of bullying behavior, you'll never be convinced.

I did like a remark you made about Dylan seeming dependent on Eric,. At first, I was going to disagree...but after giving it some thought, I think you are correct. Dylan was emotionally dependent on his small but close circle of friends. You can see that in how hard Dylan takes it when Devon first enters the picture and begins taking Zach's time away from him. And Dylan does seem to think Eric will be getting further away from him soon, too (in his journal). At the same time, Dylan seems to be the only person that Eric considered a close friend. So that would also make him somewhat dependent, too. Also, while his Type A personality made Eric the more adept planner, the killings spree was mentioned about a year before Dylan began planning with Eric. He seemed to be looking for a partner. The dynamic between the two, considering past research, is one of the reasons I find this case intriguing.


Nathan Vanderau references the TCM, not Eric and Dylan spescifically. I know what you are refering to. Its from Columbine: Understanding why. This documentary goes back to 2002. Hes asked 'how Where the TCM- members treated', and he says that 'They got picked on pretty badly. They had a cup of fecal matter thrown at them'. I believe that Devon references one particular incident when She got shoved into a locker. And, yes, Brooks suggested that they were bullied, even though I dont exactly recall all the details. Otherwise, these are many examples Ive never heard of and Ill make sure to check them out

Can I ask why you are so convinced they weren't bullied? I mean, I have seen you debate this numerous times... it seems evident they were mistreated and their experiences impacted them, even though it isn't the sole reason. Also, what is your personal opinion on when enough bad behavior qualifies as bullying? Because everyone's tolerance level is different. You might not feel something qualifies as bullying, whereas others feel it does.

What makes you so sure that its not fence sitting?
I fence sit on the issue, because for one, a lot of their friends even suggested that they havent seen them getting bullied. On top of this, Ive ran accross a key expert that investigated the Columbine- shooting saying they werent bullied.

'We have too many bullies and too many youngsters at the mercy of bullies. But we also have a growing system of anti-bullying school programs. Despite rumors to the contrary, the Columbine killers were not bullied. There is no evidence that America, compared to other nations, has more bullies, more bullying, more victimization, and more victims who are ticking time bombs, hatching plots of lethal vengeance. However, we certainly can and should promote school programs that protect all children from stalking, hazing, and the new, evolving forms of abuse: Ostracism and humiliation through electronic social networks'


"Why does America lead the world in school shootings? – Global Public Square" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


As for bullying, I go for Olweus' definition of bullying:

"Preventing Bullying |Violence Prevention|Injury Center|CDC" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Now, I dont know wether one can say that bullying cant happen between siblings or in a relationship. But what this suggests to me is that bullying is more than being mean. Power imballance and the potential or the act of repetition seems to be key.

What is my take on the Columbine shooters and bullying? I simply do not know, because some sources(Brooks Brown and Chad Laughlin, for example) suggests that they were, but it gets murky after that. Nate Dykeman suggests that Eric were mistreated, whereas 'Dylan, Im sure didnt mind'. Dylan, himself, told hes Parents that 'They dont bother me, but they sure give Eric hell'. And than theres the fact that a number of their friends claims that they never did see them getting picked on.

Than you have some statements that I believe to have been completely taken out of context. I dont think Evan Todd bullied Eric and Dylan, based on what Peter Langmann wrote. I think that it doesnt make any sense that 'horns on their Helmets' and 'crotching each others private parts' is about Eric and Dylan. I believe that he lumped them together with other people that might have participated in this kind of activity.


Than of course there are some sources that do support the notion that they were bullied. Tom and Sue Klebold argues that they believed their son to have been bullied, even though they actually did not know what Dylans life was like at school. So shes saying that she believes her son to have been bullied, and that this mirrors different conversations that they had.

What I take from this is that its possible to find a Great deal of support for both sides of the argument.

Bullying is, no doubt, a very serious problem. And I dont dispute that this was a very serious problem at CHS. Yet, how it relates to school shootings is actually a very complex one, as I see it. I feel like this suggests that I need to read up on Columbine a bit more.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 22, 2020 6:50 pm

Hmm. I guess from my perspective, whenever bullying has been mentioned, it has seemed that you're quick to point out the evidence to the contrary. While I can respect your opinion, I can't help but feel that bullying was a component in this school shooting. That said, I believe it is just one of many issues that drove E & D to murder innocent classmates. I think the most prominent; however, were their separate and distinct mental health issues. Is Dr. Langman the expert you are referring to having relied upon? If so, I take issue with some of his conclusions. For instance, he indicated in one article that the lone figure that Dylan wrote about in his essay was obviously Harris and Klebold the observer. Granted, I am not a PhD, but it seems relatively clear that the avenger wearing the trench coat was Dylan himself. Perhaps the watcher in this story was intended to be the followers Dylan imagined he and Eric would have? The watcher who understood? This is an example of a miscalculation I feel Dr. Langman has made in his assessment, but like many other things surrounding the case...I am speculating. None of us can prove what went on in the minds of E & D. They took the definitive answers with them. (BTW, I also agree with many things Dr. Langman has to say. For me, it just more of a 50/50 bag.)

Also, agree with you regarding Evan Todd. I don't believe he bullied Eric or Dylan. I feel most of the abuse they took reached its pinnacle their Junior year and was perpetrated by the then Seniors.

Thank you for the explanation and for the links. They help me understand your perspective, which I appreciate.

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 22, 2020 8:23 pm

AZ20 wrote:
Hmm. I guess from my perspective, whenever bullying has been mentioned, it has seemed that you're quick to point out the evidence to the contrary. While I can respect your opinion, I can't help but feel that bullying was a component in this school shooting. That said, I believe it is just one of many issues that drove E & D to murder innocent classmates. I think the most prominent; however, were their separate and distinct mental health issues. Is Dr. Langman the expert you are referring to having relied upon? If so, I take issue with some of his conclusions. For instance, he indicated in one article that the lone figure that Dylan wrote about in his essay was obviously Harris and Klebold the observer. Granted, I am not a PhD, but it seems relatively clear that the avenger wearing the trench coat was Dylan himself. Perhaps the watcher in this story was intended to be the followers Dylan imagined he and Eric would have? The watcher who understood? This is an example of a miscalculation I feel Dr. Langman has made in his assessment, but like many other things surrounding the case...I am speculating. None of us can prove what went on in the minds of E & D. They took the definitive answers with them. (BTW, I also agree with many things Dr. Langman has to say. For me, it just more of a 50/50 bag.)

Also, agree with you regarding Evan Todd. I don't believe he bullied Eric or Dylan. I feel most of the abuse they took reached its pinnacle their Junior year and was perpetrated by the then Seniors.

Thank you for the explanation and for the links. They help me understand your perspective, which I appreciate.


I think Langman referenced that Dylan had a lot of friends, but yet, he felt alienated because he suffered from avoidant personality disorder. And I agree with you that its difficult, because Langmann himself said that Klebold was one of the most complicated people he had ever studied. Glad we understand each other, as I find the question about Bullying controversial. I dont blame you for thinking bullying might have had something to do with it, because some sources suggests that bullying is a factor in regards to school shootings.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 25, 2020 3:39 am

I also think society puts a lot on pressure on boys of having a g/f and losing their virginity; otherwise; they are not "cool" It doesn't make you "loser" if you don't have a g/f in high school or anywhere else. Of course, I don't understand why a lot weren't attracted to the boys, they weren't the most "ugly" in the school. Eric was more attractive than Dylan, unless the girls were scared of them; I can't think of a reason why they couldn't get g/f's.

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 25, 2020 4:13 am

bradt93 wrote:
I also think society puts a lot on pressure on boys of having a g/f and losing their virginity; otherwise; they are not "cool" It doesn't make you "loser" if you don't have a g/f in high school or anywhere else. Of course, I don't understand why a lot weren't attracted to the boys, they weren't the most "ugly" in the school. Eric was more attractive than Dylan, unless the girls were scared of them; I can't think of a reason why they couldn't get g/f's.
It's not unusual for boys not to have a girlfriend at 17 years of age.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 25, 2020 10:37 am

bradt93 wrote:
I also think society puts a lot on pressure on boys of having a g/f and losing their virginity; otherwise; they are not "cool" It doesn't make you "loser" if you don't have a g/f in high school or anywhere else. Of course, I don't understand why a lot weren't attracted to the boys, they weren't the most "ugly" in the school. Eric was more attractive than Dylan, unless the girls were scared of them; I can't think of a reason why they couldn't get g/f's.


I take it that a lot of Girls actually liked Eric. Yet, that Eric experienced a lot of failure when he went out with them
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 25, 2020 1:35 pm

It puts a lot of onus on the girls too, maybe the girls are not ready?

Plus there are plenty of people who are not virgins who commit crimes.


I find the bullying thing and the fact that they were virgins such an odd thing that people get REALLY passionate about.

It's either "they were NEVER bullied and were popular but just jerks" or "they were sad and bullied every single day" and people get passionate about how they know they are right, even though they were not there and didn't know them.

The virginity thing is also such a sticking point. Sex cannot cure everything, it would be great if it would but plenty of people who get laid can still be angry, depressed, suicidal, nihilistc etc..

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 25, 2020 2:43 pm

No, but its been argued that sexual repression can cause rage

"Sexual Repression | Psychology Today" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 25, 2020 2:53 pm

Popular kids can be bullied, too, so I dont necessarily think that they Couldnt have been bullied simply because they were well liked. I just dont see them as the extreme outcasts, given that they had lots of friends.

"Popular Kids Are More Likely to Be Bullied, Study Claims" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 26, 2020 2:32 am

Norwegian wrote:
Popular kids can be bullied, too, so I dont necessarily think that they Couldnt have been bullied simply because they were well liked. I just dont see them as the extreme outcasts, given that they had lots of friends.

"Popular Kids Are More Likely to Be Bullied, Study Claims" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Everyone gets bullied at one point or another. Nobody is going to be liked by every single person they meet. That's just a fact of life.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 26, 2020 4:35 pm

I also think that we can debate on it and talk about, because it's true crime and it can be interesting, and those who knew them or went to Columbine can have their opinions on whether or not they think the bullying was horrible or normal... but it's really no ones business to say whether or not they were bullied or anyone was bullied.

What matters is, how the person feels. If they think they were bullied, they were. If someone thinks someone was rude to them, that is how they feel. It is the way you react to it, and they reacted horribly and cruelly and did something awful.

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 26, 2020 8:34 pm

Not necessarily. Thats Where public perception vs reality comes in
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Bullying? - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 26, 2020 8:39 pm

Ivan wrote:
Norwegian wrote:
Popular kids can be bullied, too, so I dont necessarily think that they Couldnt have been bullied simply because they were well liked. I just dont see them as the extreme outcasts, given that they had lots of friends.

"Popular Kids Are More Likely to Be Bullied, Study Claims" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Everyone gets bullied at one point or another. Nobody is going to be liked by every single person they meet. That's just a fact of life.


Just because you dont like someone that doesnt give that person the right to bully someone. Not everyone can like each other. Bullying is different, because you see it as an opportunity to abuse another person and violate the safety of someone else. Thats Where harassment and bullying becomes a problem..

Teaching empathy is important here.
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