What's one tibit about the shooting that you find the most interesting?

Long time troller, first time poster here! I've always wondered something after doing so much research into the shootings. What's one tibit about the shooting that you find the most interesting?

Whether it's a fact about the shooting, something said in an interview, etc., what's one bit of information about/regarding/related to the Columbine shooting that you find most interesting?

Mine will always be the conversation Dylan had with John Savage:
"John Savage stated after making contact with the forenamed, he said, "Hi Dylan, what are you doing?" John Savage related Dylan Klebold responded by shrugging his shoulders and replying, "Oh, just killing people.""

Just like that. So nonchalantly. For some reason this interaction just fascinates me. What's one specific thing about it that fascinates you guys?

About the actual shooting? That there was 32 minutes between them finishing the killing and then killing themselves, which doesn't seem to happen in most of these shootings.

About anything surrounding it. But yeah I've always thought that was strange. Usually the killer is arrested or killed/kills themselves right after their "work" is done

During the shooting, while in the library, Eric decides to jump on one of the book cases and shake it while firing one of his guns.

I know it's not much and I've actually never seen discussion of it, but I remember when I first read that and it really just struck me. Of all the horrific things they did that day, for some reason that tidbit has always stuck out in my mind.

I never knew that. I wonder Why he did that? Just seems kind of odd.... But things like that are totally the little kinds of tidbits I was talking about… Just the weird, totally random details that stick out to you. I felt the exact same way when I read about the exchange I mentioned in my first post above. It’s the little tidbits that you don’t know why they stick with you that I find the most fascinating. The random little details you pick up on that everybody else may not even think Twice about

I think one of mine is why didn't they kill anyone from the s**t lists. They had a golden opportunity to inflict as much pain as possible at that moment, they could have tortured them!

Also as well what would have happened if they'd not gone into the library straight away and they started the shooting elsewhere.

iceicebaby93 wrote:

Long time troller, first time poster here! I've always wondered something after doing so much research into the shootings. What's one tibit about the shooting that you find the most interesting?

Whether it's a fact about the shooting, something said in an interview, etc., what's one bit of information about/regarding/related to the Columbine shooting that you find most interesting?

Mine will always be the conversation Dylan had with John Savage:
"John Savage stated after making contact with the forenamed, he said, "Hi Dylan, what are you doing?" John Savage related Dylan Klebold responded by shrugging his shoulders and replying, "Oh, just killing people.""

Just like that. So nonchalantly. For some reason this interaction just fascinates me. What's one specific thing about it that fascinates you guys?

The exchange between John, Eric, and Dylan is just somewhat strange all around. The fact Eric didn't just shoot John, but instead asked him to identify himself. The fact they did just let him go for whatever reason has always stuck out to me as well.

We have discussed the whole John Savage issue on different threads.

Yes, I find very odd that Eric decided to ask John Savage to identify himself, of all the people which he had come by.

I don't recall him asking this question to anyone else. Why didn't he just shoot? Maybe he took a peak and knew John from somewhere and thus decided to ask?

Anyways if he hadn't known John and decided to ask just because, John was incredibly lucky that day. His stars aligned.

There's a few things that still "bug me" about the whole shooting.

1. We know many victims were chosen at random amongst kids that E&D didn't know. For a long time I was rather sure that all victims were random bystanders. But at some point I started having doubts.

Eric wrote that we should kill all mntally handicapped peope ("retards" as he says). Special needs kids get shot and killed. Eric wrote that he hates Star Wars geeks, then we have Mauser (open and well known SW fan) get shot and killed. Then there's the racism part with Dylan saying that black people talk in ebonics etc.

It may be a coincidence, but I am starting to think that maybe some victims did in fact drew more attention than others. E&D were happy to kill random people, but perhaps they were more than happy to kill some people from some specific groups.


2. The whole "Harris had a chat with Rachel Scott before he shot her" thing that R.Castaldo introduced. I'm trying to understand if he lied, when he lied and why. Or if he is/was just confused.

you know what, I'm gonna revisit this issue and the timeline [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] yes but unless Daniel was wearing a Star Wars top, would Eric have known this before he shot him? As far as I am aware they never had previous encounters with Daniel.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it was Steven curnow who was star wars fan not Daniel ^^

Sabratha wrote:

Eric wrote that we should kill all mntally handicapped peope ("retards" as he says). Special needs kids get shot and killed. 

Which of the victims were special needs?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it's Kyle V that was a special needs student.

QuestionMark wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

Eric wrote that we should kill all mntally handicapped peope ("retards" as he says). Special needs kids get shot and killed. 

Which of the victims were special needs?

Kyle Velasquez

Honestly I do not know how they could have known Kyle had special needs... He didn't have any tells by the way he looked, he just looked like anyone else It kind of gets insulting towards Kyle after a while. Why does it matter? Everyone that was killed mattered equally. Everyone in the library got hate spewed at them.

TaylorsMom wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it's Kyle V that was a special needs student.

Screamingophelia wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

Eric wrote that we should kill all mntally handicapped peope ("retards" as he says). Special needs kids get shot and killed. 

Which of the victims were special needs?

Kyle Velasquez

Honestly I do not know how they could have known Kyle had special needs... He didn't have any tells by the way he looked, he just looked like anyone else  It kind of gets insulting towards Kyle after a while. Why does it matter? Everyone that was killed mattered equally. Everyone in the library got hate spewed at them.

Ah, ok. 

I presume Eric and Dylan didn't know who Kyle was before the shooting started, and probably didn't know that he was a special needs student?

QuestionMark wrote:

TaylorsMom wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it's Kyle V that was a special needs student.

Screamingophelia wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

Eric wrote that we should kill all mntally handicapped peope ("retards" as he says). Special needs kids get shot and killed. 

Which of the victims were special needs?

Kyle Velasquez

Honestly I do not know how they could have known Kyle had special needs... He didn't have any tells by the way he looked, he just looked like anyone else  It kind of gets insulting towards Kyle after a while. Why does it matter? Everyone that was killed mattered equally. Everyone in the library got hate spewed at them.

Ah, ok. 

I presume Eric and Dylan didn't know who Kyle was before the shooting started, and probably didn't know that he was a special needs student?

I assume so yes.

For me, it was the thing that when Dylan left home that morning, he passed by his mother's room and gave a rough "bye" response to her when she called out to him. To me, that's the most haunting aspect of the entire shooting, because I wonder what was going through his mind at that moment and what would've happened had Sue stopped him and talked to him, what if she said something that would've made him change his mind at the last minute? What if on his way out of the house, he ran into some girl that he always wanted and he saw her and she asked him out or something? Would that have made him change his mind at the last minute? So that's it for me. The final moments before the shooting with Dylan, both at home and on his drive to Columbine. I wonder the same about Eric in the store, had he seen a girl he always liked or wanted or had he seen a girl period at that gas station and had they began chatting it up romantic wise, would he have changed his mind at the last minute?

Or what if Eric had gotten stopped by the police on the way to school? Those last minute aspects before the shooting, with them are most interesting to me.

QuestionMark wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

Eric wrote that we should kill all mntally handicapped peope ("retards" as he says). Special needs kids get shot and killed. 

Which of the victims were special needs?

Kyle Velasquez for sure. I am vaguely aware Kelly was in a special class, but perhaps my memory is fuzzy.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Honestly I do not know how they could have known Kyle had special needs... He didn't have any tells by the way he looked, he just looked like anyone else  It kind of gets insulting towards Kyle after a while. Why does it matter? Everyone that was killed mattered equally. Everyone in the library got hate spewed at them.

No insult intended and I stronly oppose the claim that not every victim mattered.

The reason I brought this up is because Eric has a whole long rant in his diary how mentallly handicapped people (he refers to them as retards) should be killed, To quote him:

Quote :

people spend millions of dollars on saving the lives of retards, and why. I don't buy that shit like "oh hes my son though!" so the fuck what, he aint normal, kill him, put him out his misery. he is only a waste of time and money, then people say "But he is worth the time, he is human too" no he isnt, if he was then he would swalow a bullet cause he would realize what a fucking waste and burden he was.

I'm not sure E&D recognized Kyle as a special needs kid. Maybe not, maybe they shot him just becvause eh was the first one they saw when they got to the library.
In Poland you usually do not have special needs kids in the same building with regular students and if you do, people know who is in which group. I know it is different in America, especially in public schools that often lack facilities or staff with sufficient training.

The knocking and peekaboo I thought about for a while after first encountering it.

Also the fact that they waited for the bombs to go off and then shoot people in separate locations, like they were both perfectly fine with murdering people on their own and didn't feel like they needed someone there with them to do it.

The fact that there were two people involved. The only other mass shooting that I can think of that had two shooters was the Golden & Johnson incident that happened a year prior to Columbine. There's something about having two teenagers shooting their classmates. Not one, but two.

Grenier_VoDKa wrote:

The only other mass shooting that I can think of that had two shooters was the Golden & Johnson incident that happened a year prior to Columbine. 

I could list a few terrorist attacks that I can think of...

Maybe not most interesting, but intriguing and I think it supports that there was classism and bullying at Columbine. In addition to the attacks on the people, E & D also shot up things like trophy cases (accomplishments of the despised jocks).

thelmar wrote:

Maybe not most interesting, but intriguing and I think it supports that there was classism and bullying at Columbine. In addition to the attacks on the people, E & D also shot up things like trophy cases (accomplishments of the despised jocks).

I think tis was less them making a statement and more wanting to look cool breaking things. They shot and destroyed computers and TVs too.

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:

About the actual shooting?  That there was 32 minutes between them finishing the killing and then killing themselves, which doesn't seem to happen in most of these shootings.  

So are you saying that after they shot and killed their last victim there went 32 minutes by before they killed themselves? Do you have a source to this, because I would like to read it. I have never heard that before.

TheGoodGuy wrote:

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:

About the actual shooting?  That there was 32 minutes between them finishing the killing and then killing themselves, which doesn't seem to happen in most of these shootings.  

So are you saying that after they shot and killed their last victim there went 32 minutes by before they killed themselves? Do you have a source to this, because I would like to read it. I have never heard that before.

Check out the Columbine summary report.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The official story is that they left the library around 11:36 and killed themselves at 12:08. The shootings outside and in the library were a lot shorter than you might imagine when reading through witness narratives.

In the library were around 59 students they killed 11? I don't Condone their actions but if they planned to kill 500 ppl why didn't they kill all in the library? Yeah its a stupid question . I'm just curious about that.. And why did they decide to let Evan Todd live?

[quote=I think tis was less them making a statement and more wanting to look cool breaking things. They shot and destroyed computers and TVs too.[/quote]

That's true, they did destroy other things but I think it was more than just wanting to ruin stuff. There was also some writing above one of the entryways that said, "Through These Halls Pass the Finest Kids in America". You can see it around 5:17 in CVA's Columbine Fire Department Footage video on YouTube. The word "Finest" has been made illegible, presumably by Eric and Dylan. Little things like this make it seem like more of a statement than just wanton destruction.

evelynssye wrote:

During the shooting, while in the library, Eric decides to jump on one of the book cases and shake it while firing one of his guns.

I know it's not much and I've actually never seen discussion of it, but I remember when I first read that and it really just struck me. Of all the horrific things they did that day, for some reason that tidbit has always stuck out in my mind.

Did he also say the whole "this school is dead" thing like in Zero Hour?

The fact that Dylan saw Eric dead.

The fact that Dylan wiped his hard drive, imagine all the deleted files? Would've loved to have explored the files from scans of what the files contained.

Rebbie556 wrote:

In the library were around  59 students  they killed 11?   I don't Condone their actions but if they planned to kill 500 ppl   why didn't they kill all in the library? Yeah its a stupid question . I'm just curious about that..  And why did they decide to let Evan Todd live?

59 is still a lot less than hundreds. In any case I'm pretty sure they wanted to leave a fair amount of witnesses behind to have their story told.

@Halycon666 I have a feeling it had a lot of foot fetish porn

VoDKaComeHere wrote:

@Halycon666 I have a feeling it had a lot of foot fetish porn

I definitely think Dylan had a lot of foot fetish porn on his computer.

In addition, if Dylan didn't wipe out the hard drive, a lot of what's on Dylan's computer would be redacted because of the images being pornographic.

Halcyon666 wrote:

VoDKaComeHere wrote:

@Halycon666 I have a feeling it had a lot of foot fetish porn

I definitely think Dylan had a lot of foot fetish porn on his computer.  

In addition, if Dylan didn't wipe out the hard drive, a lot of what's on Dylan's computer would be redacted because of the images being pornographic.  

Also bondage, you forgot the bondage.

And seriously people still talk about how Eric wanted to get laid all the time and Dylan talked about masturbating and looking at foot fetish porn...

Screamingophelia wrote:

Halcyon666 wrote:

VoDKaComeHere wrote:

@Halycon666 I have a feeling it had a lot of foot fetish porn

I definitely think Dylan had a lot of foot fetish porn on his computer.  

In addition, if Dylan didn't wipe out the hard drive, a lot of what's on Dylan's computer would be redacted because of the images being pornographic.  

Also bondage, you forgot  the bondage.

And seriously people still talk about how Eric wanted to get laid all the time and Dylan talked about masturbating and looking at foot fetish porn...

Yeah, forgot about that, I appreciate you reminding me.

sscc wrote:

TheGoodGuy wrote:

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:

About the actual shooting?  That there was 32 minutes between them finishing the killing and then killing themselves, which doesn't seem to happen in most of these shootings.  

So are you saying that after they shot and killed their last victim there went 32 minutes by before they killed themselves? Do you have a source to this, because I would like to read it. I have never heard that before.

Check out the Columbine summary report.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The official story is that they left the library around 11:36 and killed themselves at 12:08. The shootings outside and in the library were a lot shorter than you might imagine when reading through witness narratives.

Thanks! But no way in hell I am reading 513 pages haha. But I can look through certain chapters, it looks interesting thanks again.

It's been confirmed that the picture of the boy sitting on the curb with the cap on crying was the same boy who was in the breakfast run video, isn't he? Where was he during the shooting, how long did it take for him to find out it was Dylan, how close were they prior to the shooting and was he friends with Eric also?

They shot Kyle because he was still sitting in his chair while everyone else was hidden under their desks, which made him an easy target, not because they were targeting special needs students. And a eerily sad fact about Kyle was that he was originally in the cafeteria when the shooting first started and made his way into the Library through all the commotion.

Some of them have been already mentioned.

Mine is not exactly a tidbit... What fascinates me is that they approached the whole thing as a carefully crafted piece of art with so much attention to detail.

Look at the HS pic and their glare. They don't belong in there. It's as if they were already elsewhere, halfway at least. And they look seriously evil-possessed.

I don’t see evil at all. But it is interesting because I’ve heard that before. I’ve heard even people say that Dylan senior pics look evil. I see a very uncomfortable looking kid trying to smile.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I don’t see evil at all. But it is interesting because I’ve heard that before. I’ve heard even people say that Dylan senior pics look evil. I see a very uncomfortable looking kid trying to smile.

I agree on both points. I do think they felt they were crafting a piece of art because they knew that once they did what they did, people would look back at that senior class pic and see the "evil" expressions on their faces. They did that intentionally, another "clue" for investigators to find. But to me they don't really look evil, they look like 2 kids trying to look tough and full of hatred. I don't get a creepy vibe from it at all; it actually looks a bit silly to me. I also agree that Dylan's individual senior pics were just awkward because he didn't like the attention on him; nothing evil about them.

In several of the library witness statements, students make reference to E or D saying something like, "I've never seen {N-word} brains before!" or "Look at the {N-word} brains!"

Despite Emily Wyant saying they shot Isaiah Shoels in the face, he didn't actually have any head wounds. So, does anyone have opinions as to why several witnesses believe they heard these statements?

I think they probably misheard and they were talking about his death errection. Amanda talks about it a bit in her video.

Yeah the two jackasses were making fun of his erection.

I feel like this is one of the only shootings where people talk about dick as much as they do.


Not Getting laid, hitmen for hire...

There are other kids who mention the "look at his brains" comment but don't include the racial slur, so I always figured that maybe the witnesses just transposed the events.

I believe John Tomlin and Kyle Vasquez were the only males with head wounds in the library (aside from Ireland whose brain obviously wasn't exposed) so it must have been one of them and in the chaos things just got jumbled as to the sequence of events.

I've also always suspected that many of the students discussed the events amongst themselves and kind of convinced each other that certain things were said or happened in a certain order when they really didn't. In addition to the trauma of the event affecting what people were able to process at the time, many of the witness statements were taken days to weeks after the attack. I think all of those factors would tend to skew the facts a bit.

thelmar wrote:

There are other kids who mention the "look at his brains" comment but don't include the racial slur, so I always figured that maybe the witnesses just transposed the events.

I believe John Tomlin and Kyle Vasquez were the only males with head wounds in the library (aside from Ireland whose brain obviously wasn't exposed) so it must have been one of them and in the chaos things just got jumbled as to the sequence of events.

I've also always suspected that many of the students discussed the events amongst themselves and kind of convinced each other that certain things were said or happened in a certain order when they really didn't. In addition to the trauma of the event affecting what people were able to process at the time, many of the witness statements were taken days to weeks after the attack. I think all of those factors would tend to skew the facts a bit.

I agree. I spoke to someone who survived the cafeteria, she was at the table with the bombs and she said she was so traumatized that she could not remember anything until around Christmas time that year. So she couldn't give much info to the IO when she was interviewed during the summer.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I wonder if the 11k would have been more useful had the police done follow up interviews months after the fact rather than a few days after shooting.

katherinex wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I wonder if the 11k would have been more useful had the police done follow up interviews months after the fact rather than a few days after shooting.

I think that would have helped. Some interviews right after the fact but following up would have been good. However it was such a big case, you had hundreds of witnesses, mostly traumatized kids.

Shaking my head at Dylan wiping his hard drive. Here was a guy who wanted to be remembered as a mass murderer, but drew the line at being remembered as someone who had porn on his computer.

Reminds me of something in a novel I read years back. One of the characters was a retired intelligence operative who still kept tabs on certain groups. He said that he protected himself by letting certain people know that he had embarrassing information on their private lives, and that it would become public if he died under suspicious circumstances. These same people who wanted him dead then ended up becoming his protectors.

Sounds like Dylan's mindset. Being regarded as notorious is one thing. Being regarded as kinky is quite another.