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 Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION

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PostSubject: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeSun Jul 15, 2018 12:45 pm

So my "favorite" shootings are Erfurt and Winnenden, and as why was looking for sources on Winnenden I came across Der Fall TimK.
Now I want to say that this essay is not as much concerned with Kretschmer, the background, motive and other things that are common topics here, but with what happened itself. There are a lot of inconclusive and illogical reports, sometimes contradicting each other, with multiple versions of almost everything.
The text itself sometimes slips into conspiracy theory, as the basic conclusion is that there were two perpetrators. Now I dont share this believe, but it is really crazy how many lies and deceptions surround this case and I think its worth reading because you see just how much bullshit media and officials can spread. It can out you into a more critical mindset and the background of a conspiracy theory does not defuse any, or most, of the allegations made, however, I often came to a different conclussion than the author. I dont think it shows manipulation and conspiracy but simply a corrupt and incabable police force and a deceptive, uncrictical media.
Its not a scientific article so there are little citations, make of it what you will.

The entire thing is only available in German afaik, so I decided to just translate it myself.
I contacted the owner and I hope to receive a response soon so hopefully we can publish the translation on the site itself.
Translating all of it will take a while as its a long essay, so any help would be appreciated. If anybody finds grammatical errors feel free to correct them.
I already translated the prologue and the first 2 chapters to show what the essay is all about, as I dont see a way to upload the files themselves I will just spoiler them.

Intro:

5 different courses of events:

Intro:

The depiction of Tim Kretschmer:
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PostSubject: Re: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeFri Jul 20, 2018 1:06 am

Since you are German and know some interesting things about Steinhauser do you mind sharing what you know about him ?
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PostSubject: Re: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeFri Jul 20, 2018 10:10 am

r4911 wrote:
Since you are German and know some interesting things about Steinhauser do you mind sharing what you know about him ?
Well what do you want to know?
He was rather unremarkable, didnt like school, skipped it often and made edgy remarks about columbine. (Saying somebody should do it over here, pointed his finger at a teacher and saying "bang, you are dead"). He had a stable social life, drank beer, smoked weed, played video games and other things German youth do to socialise. He wasnt an outgoing extrovert but not an isolated loner either. During the same school trip he did that bang threat, he was also smoking cigars and drinking although both was forbidden.

He was a bad student with Cs, Ds and Fs, had to repeat the eleventh class which he barely completed. He was expeled in October 2001 for bringing a forged doctors attest because he didnt want to receive 0 points at a Geography test he missed. After that he applied to another school but wasnt taken because they didnt offer the physics class he needed, he was told by the Schulamt that he should try the Martin Luther school because they had open places and the class he needed, he never contacted anybody.
Note that his expulsure was illegal as only the Schulamt was allowed to do so, not the school itself, and the first thought he left on his own terms. Derp, good job I guess.
He played handball for years before he (was forced to) left after again missing often.

In the six months between his expulsion and the shooting he led a double life, disappearing on the mornings and pretending that he was still going to school. The police couldnt find out where he went. He even brought a forged half year school certificate to show his parents on christmas, so it seems he knew some shady people.

After christmas he did more research about mass shootings and started buying holsters for his guns, so a that point he was definetly preparing for the shooting. However, initial preperations like joing the gun club itself was two years before this, which was still after Columbine, his main influence, so he might have been thinking about it for years. He bought both the pistol and the shotgun after the expulsure. Here again it is noticable that the bought a pistol grip for the mossberg, which was illegal at all competitions which he cited as the reason why he wanted to buy guns.

By April his lies were starting to fall appart and he couldnt fake completing school, so he did the shooting. During the shooting, after most/all of the killing was done he actually took of the mask and talked to a worker. Then happened the scene with Heise.

Now I still havent read the full police report, but I am thinking about translating it into English as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeFri Jul 20, 2018 10:37 pm

imgview wrote:
r4911 wrote:
Since you are German and know some interesting things about Steinhauser do you mind sharing what you know about him ?
Well what do you want to know?
He was rather unremarkable, didnt like school, skipped it often and made edgy remarks about columbine. (Saying somebody should do it over here, pointed his finger at a teacher and saying "bang, you are dead"). He had a stable social life, drank beer, smoked weed, played video games and other things German youth do to socialise. He wasnt an outgoing extrovert but not an isolated loner either. During the same school trip he did that bang threat, he was also smoking cigars and drinking although both was forbidden.

He was a bad student with Cs, Ds and Fs, had to repeat the eleventh class which he barely completed. He was expeled in October 2001 for bringing a forged doctors attest because he didnt want to receive 0 points at a Geography test he missed. After that he applied to another school but wasnt taken because they didnt offer the physics class he needed, he was told by the Schulamt that he should try the Martin Luther school because they had open places and the class he needed, he never contacted anybody.
Note that his expulsure was illegal as only the Schulamt was allowed to do so, not the school itself, and the first thought he left on his own terms. Derp, good job I guess.
He played handball for years before he (was forced to) left after again missing often.

In the six months between his expulsion and the shooting he led a double life, disappearing on the mornings and pretending that he was still going to school. The police couldnt find out where he went. He even brought a forged half year school certificate to show his parents on christmas, so it seems he knew some shady people.

After christmas he did more research about mass shootings and started buying holsters for his guns, so a that point he was definetly preparing for the shooting. However, initial preperations like joing the gun club itself was two years before this, which was still after Columbine, his main influence, so he might have been thinking about it for years. He bought both the pistol and the shotgun after the expulsure. Here again it is noticable that the bought a pistol grip for the mossberg, which was illegal at all competitions which he cited as the reason why he wanted to buy guns.

By April his lies were starting to fall appart and he couldnt fake completing school, so he did the shooting. During the shooting, after most/all of the killing was done he actually took of the mask and talked to a worker. Then happened the scene with Heise.

Now I still havent read the full police report, but I am thinking about translating it into English as well.

I knew some of that stuff but not all of it.

Nice, how long is the police report tho?
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PostSubject: Re: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeSat Jul 21, 2018 5:00 am

[quote="r4911"]
imgview wrote:
r4911 wrote:
Since you are German and know some interesting things about Steinhauser do you mind sharing what you know about him ?
-quote]

I knew some of that stuff but not all of it.

Nice, how long is the police report tho?
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371 pages

Table of contents

A ASSIGNMENT AND WORKING CONDITIONS

B HISTORY AND PREPERATIONS

C THE SHOOTING

D THE CAPTURE OF ROBERT STEINHÄUSER IN ROOM 111

E ABOUT THE QUESTION OF A "SECOND PERPETRATOR"

F VICTIMS TIME OF DEATH AND CHANGES FOR SURVIVAL

G THE DEATH CERTIFICATES AND THEIR ERRORS

H POLICE AND RESCUE DEPLOYMENT

I ASSESSMENT OF ROBERT STEINHÄUSERS PERSONALITY AND THE CRIME

J ABOUT RED FLAGS, CONFIDANTS, HELPERS AND COPYCATS

Before translating that I definetly want to complete Der Fall Tim K. and read it (Erufrt) again. So it definetly wont be this month, maybe next month.
I was actually really surprised to learn this was publicly available, they never realsed something like this for Emsdetten or Winnenden.
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PostSubject: Re: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeFri Jul 27, 2018 5:00 pm

Thanks for the translation, Winnenden shooting was always the most interesting to me.

Good point about that combat outfit reports - I always found it strange, because on the video Tim had casual outfit, in black colour, but not combat outfit.

I wonder how much true is in reports about Silvester 2008 when he told a girl that he loves her but she rejected him.

I also read that he and his father bought some ammo in gun store as a birthday gift for his father in january of 2009.

Do you have some other interesting facts about Kretschmer? Any rare photos or photos of his parents?
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PostSubject: Re: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeFri Jul 27, 2018 5:49 pm

Do you have any crime scene diagrams of the school interior of both Erfurt and the winnenden shooting?
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PostSubject: Re: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeSat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 am

SpagettDoggo84 wrote:
Do you have any crime scene diagrams of the school interior of both Erfurt and the winnenden shooting?

That would be cool.
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PostSubject: Re: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeSat Jul 28, 2018 2:04 am

In my opinion Tim and Robert were pretty normal but went through severe depression. Tim was a bit shy, but seemed like your average teenager. Robert liked wearing trench coats, but he seemed like he enjoyed hanging out with friends and playing video games and smoking weed. He was social but probably with a gothish crowd, not rejects. After getting expelled Robert did start spending most of the day in his room watching tv or playing video games and never went to the disco or the pool and quit handball. Seems like depression to me. He targeted teachers and authority only because he was angry at them. Only Tim knows his motive.
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PostSubject: Re: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeSat Jul 28, 2018 2:14 am

oh wait a minute, I just scrolled through the Erfurt document, it has crime scene diagrams. nevermind
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PostSubject: Re: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeSat Jul 28, 2018 2:14 am

SpagettDoggo84 wrote:
oh wait a minute, I just scrolled through the Erfurt document, it has crime scene diagrams. nevermind

too bad we don't know german lol


also sorry about what happened between you and dan mickie on discord
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PostSubject: Re: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeSat Jul 28, 2018 2:17 am

any updates on translating erfurt report?
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PostSubject: Re: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeSat Jul 28, 2018 4:25 am

r4911 wrote:
SpagettDoggo84 wrote:
oh wait a minute, I just scrolled through the Erfurt document, it has crime scene diagrams. nevermind

too bad we don't know german lol


also sorry about what happened between you and dan mickie on discord

true. that's ok, it didn't really bother me too much
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PostSubject: Re: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeMon Aug 13, 2018 7:32 am

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I am done with the part about Wendlingen, I havent proof read it but I assume it should be intelligible. Its my first attempt at translating something like this, so I guess there will be a lot of grammatical errors.

Here is the original site btw, unfortunately the owner still has not replied to email.
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PostSubject: Re: Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION   Der Fall TimK - ENGLISH TRANSLATION Icon_minitimeThu Aug 23, 2018 1:52 pm

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