the bomb wiring

So the two big bombs in the cafeteria and the ones in their cars. Do we know why they didn't work? Were they poor wiring, were the timers not working? Like what was the deal with the bombs. Why didn't they blow up?

ChaotixBoy wrote:

So the two big bombs in the cafeteria and the ones in their cars. Do we know why they didn't work? Were they poor wiring, were the timers not working? Like what was the deal with the bombs. Why didn't they blow up?

The clocks used as timers were cheap, and plastic-y. Plus Eric’s wiring skills were subpar (thank goodness). Add to that, the fact that consumer grade propane tanks are damn near impossible to actually detonate via piggybacking low yield explosives.

Lack of real world knowledge/skills is what ultimately doomed the bomb side of the attack.

ChaotixBoy wrote:

So the two big bombs in the cafeteria and the ones in their cars. Do we know why they didn't work? Were they poor wiring, were the timers not working? Like what was the deal with the bombs. Why didn't they blow up?

I'm not gonna comment in detail of the wiring, to me that's crossing over from "research" to "giving bomb tips to space monkeys".


But I can comment on why they did not blow up. They used propane tanks, such as for barbecues. These are specially designed to be resistant to heat (so that drunken idiots don't blow themselves up as Krabbe would put it). Thing it, just throwing a molotov at one of these won't do much, they are thick and take some time (probably over 5 mins of flames) to heat up to a temperature in which they blow up.

The sprinklers at CHS were more than enough to put out the fire before the tanks reached the temperature needed. So the cafeteria bombs were doomed to failure. Even if the sprinkers were not there and even if the bombs would catch fire, it would be several minutes before they blow up and people in the cafeteria would run away or extinguish the fire with an extinguisher.

The bombs in the cars are a different story. Technically it was possible for the fire to start, nobody noticing it and the tanks reaching their critical temperature after several minutes of fire.

Sabratha wrote:

ChaotixBoy wrote:

So the two big bombs in the cafeteria and the ones in their cars. Do we know why they didn't work? Were they poor wiring, were the timers not working? Like what was the deal with the bombs. Why didn't they blow up?

I'm not gonna comment in detail of the wiring, to me that's crossing over from "research" to "giving bomb tips to space monkeys".


But I can comment on why they did not blow up. They used propane tanks, such as for barbecues. These are specially designed to be resistant to heat (so that drunken idiots don't blow themselves up as Krabbe would put it). Thing it, just throwing a molotov at one of these won't do much, they are thick and take some time (probably over 5 mins of flames) to heat up to a temperature in which they blow up.

The sprinklers at CHS were more than enough to put out the fire before the tanks reached the temperature needed. So the cafeteria bombs were doomed to failure. Even if the sprinkers were not there and even if the bombs would catch fire, it would be several minutes before they blow up and people in the cafeteria would run away or extinguish the fire with an extinguisher.

The bombs in the cars are a different story. Technically it was possible for the fire to start, nobody noticing it and the tanks reaching their critical temperature after several minutes of fire.

Yes this was my main thought. The bombs created enough smoke to set off sprinklers and they put out the fire before the tanks could get hot enough.

I have the book that Eric got his instructions out of on how to make a time bomb. I have no idea why he used propane as that book did not have propane listed in the instructions. And so the bombs are the biggest things about Columbine that confuse me and make no sense to me and I hate that.

Eric thought that this propane tank with liquid propane in it would blow up instantly and that's not true. It takes a big tank like that awhile for all the liquid to evaporate to the point of explosion. And usually, that won't happen anyway because of the valves that open up once it starts to fill up. It would have to sit in a consistent fire for a while to even blow up.

And the reason Dylan got a partial explosion when he threw a Molotov on it is because there was a can of gasoline in the bag. That is what blew up, not a propane tank.

I have questions about this myself like A. Why did he use propane instead of what the directions said and B. Why the hell didn't he at least try this out beforehand to make sure it would work. Instead, he winged it and didn't even buy the propane tanks until the morning of the shooting.

Jenn wrote:

I have the book that Eric got his instructions out of on how to make a time bomb. I have no idea why he used propane as that book did not have propane listed in the instructions. And so the bombs are the biggest things about Columbine that confuse me and make no sense to me and I hate that.

Eric thought that this propane tank with liquid propane in it would blow up instantly and that's not true. It takes a big tank like that awhile for all the liquid to evaporate to the point of explosion. And usually, that won't happen anyway because of the valves that open up once it starts to fill up. It would have to sit in a consistent fire for a while to even blow up.

And the reason Dylan got a partial explosion when he threw a Molotov on it is because there was a can of gasoline in the bag. That is what blew up, not a propane tank.

I have questions about this myself like A. Why did he use propane instead of what the directions said and B. Why the hell didn't he at least try this out beforehand to make sure it would work. Instead, he winged it and didn't even buy the propane tanks until the morning of the shooting.

The testing is what gets me. He spent what could have amounted to hours with those pipe bombs testing which shapes and materials made the best explosions, taking notes, and refining his skills. However he did nothing of the sort (that we know of) to test these bombs. Makes me wonder if all the testing that he did do went to his head and made him think he was better at explosives than he really was. If he got cocky and thought that anything he thought of would work.

Jenn wrote:

I have the book that Eric got his instructions out of on how to make a time bomb. I have no idea why he used propane as that book did not have propane listed in the instructions. And so the bombs are the biggest things about Columbine that confuse me and make no sense to me and I hate that.

Eric thought that this propane tank with liquid propane in it would blow up instantly and that's not true. It takes a big tank like that awhile for all the liquid to evaporate to the point of explosion. And usually, that won't happen anyway because of the valves that open up once it starts to fill up. It would have to sit in a consistent fire for a while to even blow up.

And the reason Dylan got a partial explosion when he threw a Molotov on it is because there was a can of gasoline in the bag. That is what blew up, not a propane tank.

I have questions about this myself like A. Why did he use propane instead of what the directions said and B. Why the hell didn't he at least try this out beforehand to make sure it would work. Instead, he winged it and didn't even buy the propane tanks until the morning of the shooting.

The bomb aspect of the plan has always intrigued me as well. It's possible that Eric just decided to use the propane tanks because they were readily available and easily bought.

I also think they considered testing the bigger bombs as way to dangerous, and they were afraid of getting caught.

Jenn wrote:

I have the book that Eric got his instructions out of on how to make a time bomb. I have no idea why he used propane as that book did not have propane listed in the instructions. 

You mean the Anarchist Cookbook? I don't know for sure, but considering how reliable that book is, had Eric followed those instructions he would've probably blown his hands off.

My theory is Eric played too much Duke Nukem and got the impression it would be easy to blow up a propane tank.

W.A.R. wrote:

My theory is Eric played too much Duke Nukem and got the impression it would be easy to blow up a propane tank.

There's that too. I don't think either of them knew much about real bombs and guns outside of what they saw in video games and movies.

Jenn wrote:

I have questions about this myself like A. Why did he use propane instead of what the directions said and B. Why the hell didn't he at least try this out beforehand to make sure it would work. Instead, he winged it and didn't even buy the propane tanks until the morning of the shooting.

All very good points here, not just Jenn but also Lizpuff and ShadowedGoddess. The bombs were the most rushed and the least researched part of the attack. But we have some written evidence that some sort of bombs were planned for a long time.

But then again: Eric and Dylan did not try to reset the bombs after the planned detonation time. They also don't seem to have spent a lot of time discussing "what went wrong". I think the timeline suggests that they were ready in case the bombs failed. They had a plan B and the failure of the bombs didn't surprise or disturb them.

Yet at the same time, they spent quite some time during the actual attack trying to set the bombs off.

It is a lot of contradictions. I think perhaps the best explanation is Eric's wishful thinking and him getting too big for his boots. On a rational level, he knew he is no master bomb maker and that they might likely fail. But on an emotional evel, he so damn wanted this school to blow up. I think that;s where the contradictions oem from- the disparity between Eric's "can" and his "want".

Eric was also influenced by co-workers and friends as to the making of the propane devices.

Sabratha wrote:

They had a plan B and the failure of the bombs didn't surprise or disturb them.

Man you can hardly call what they did a proper plan. They improvised on the spot.

QuestionMark wrote:

Jenn wrote:

I have the book that Eric got his instructions out of on how to make a time bomb. I have no idea why he used propane as that book did not have propane listed in the instructions. 

You mean the Anarchist Cookbook? I don't know for sure, but considering how reliable that book is, had Eric followed those instructions he would've probably blown his hands off.

Yes, I've got that book. I have the original one made in the 70's but I think they may have made other versions since then. Eric got his instructions on how to make this alarm clock time bomb from the same book that I have. He did not follow the directions and he substituted one thing in the directions for propane and I wonder why he did that?

I also wonder why he thought liquid propane would explode instantly. Didn't he know that the liquid would have to turn into gas and evaporate before it would explode? I mean, that's what makes it explode. There not being enough room for it to expand any further. And didn't he know about the valves that open up when there's too much pressure to prevent it from blowing up? This is just basic stuff that most people would know without ever trying to use a tank like that to build a bomb.

I would think people wanting to build a bomb would research this stuff. He literally did no research at all. He read this book, didn't follow the directions properly, didn't even test it out and didn't even buy the tanks to build the bomb until 4 hours before the bomb was meant to blow up.

QuestionMark wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

They had a plan B and the failure of the bombs didn't surprise or disturb them.

Man you can hardly call what they did a proper plan. They improvised on the spot.

^^this

Jenn wrote:

I also wonder why he thought liquid propane would explode instantly. Didn't he know that the liquid would have to turn into gas and evaporate before it would explode? I mean, that's what makes it explode. There not being enough room for it to expand any further. And didn't he know about the valves that open up when there's too much pressure to prevent it from blowing up? This is just basic stuff that most people would know without ever trying to use a tank like that to build a bomb.

I would think people wanting to build a bomb would research this stuff. He literally did no research at all. He read this book, didn't follow the directions properly, didn't even test it out and didn't even buy the tanks to build the bomb until 4 hours before the bomb was meant to blow up.

Well like I said before, Eric and Dylan probably expected the bombs to function like in a video game or movie and didn't give things enough proper thought.

Jenn wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Jenn wrote:

I have the book that Eric got his instructions out of on how to make a time bomb. I have no idea why he used propane as that book did not have propane listed in the instructions. 

You mean the Anarchist Cookbook? I don't know for sure, but considering how reliable that book is, had Eric followed those instructions he would've probably blown his hands off.

Yes, I've got that book. I have the original one made in the 70's but I think they may have made other versions since then. Eric got his instructions on how to make this alarm clock time bomb from the same book that I have. He did not follow the directions and he substituted one thing in the directions for propane and I wonder why he did that?

I also wonder why he thought liquid propane would explode instantly. Didn't he know that the liquid would have to turn into gas and evaporate before it would explode? I mean, that's what makes it explode. There not being enough room for it to expand any further. And didn't he know about the valves that open up when there's too much pressure to prevent it from blowing up? This is just basic stuff that most people would know without ever trying to use a tank like that to build a bomb.

I would think people wanting to build a bomb would research this stuff. He literally did no research at all. He read this book, didn't follow the directions properly, didn't even test it out and didn't even buy the tanks to build the bomb until 4 hours before the bomb was meant to blow up.

Actually he got the propane about 2 hours before they put them in the cafeteria. The timing on the store video of him buying the propane that morning was about 1 hour and 20 minutes behind. So yeah, they literally had no idea what they were doing with the propane and just got it 2 hours before the shooting.

QuestionMark wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

They had a plan B and the failure of the bombs didn't surprise or disturb them.

Man you can hardly call what they did a proper plan. They improvised on the spot.

What I meant to say that they did not base everything on the bombs. They did not panic or go back in to try to reset the bombs, or take the bonbs out of the cafeteria to fix them later and try another day.

By all evidence, they expected the failure of the bombs is a possibility. There was certainly no meticulous plan, but they did go to the top of the stairs which was the best vantage point west of the school. They started shooting from a place where they could fire at kids on the parking lot, before the school, coming out from both entrances, on the lawn nearby, on the sports field to the NW etc.

I do think they had that vantage point already chosen. It wasn''t the most complicated "Olsen Gang-style plan", but I don't think they were surprised by the bomb faileres and they reacted very calmly to that.

Eric had a huge ego. And he never even thought of a "plan b." He was so sure the bombs would work, so when they didn't. He just went all out. The shooting ended up turning really messy and not by their original plan at all.

ChaotixBoy wrote:

Eric had a huge ego. And he never even thought of a "plan b." He was so sure the bombs would work, so when they didn't. He just went all out. The shooting ended up turning really messy and not by their original plan at all.

He had a big ego, but I'm not sure that the bomb failure really affected him in any deep way. He seems to have enjoyed himself a lot until he broke his nose. In the first few minutes of the shooting, Eric is gleefully shooting people in all directions with his Hi-Point rifle. He prefers to take pot shots at kids near the soccer field and the grassy knoll rather than go check the bombs. It is Dylan that peeks into the cafeteria at the time, not Eric.

Sabratha wrote:

ChaotixBoy wrote:

Eric had a huge ego. And he never even thought of a "plan b." He was so sure the bombs would work, so when they didn't. He just went all out. The shooting ended up turning really messy and not by their original plan at all.

He had a big ego, but I'm not sure that the bomb failure really affected him in any deep way. He seems to have enjoyed himself a lot until he broke his nose. In the first few minutes of the shooting, Eric is gleefully shooting people in all directions with his Hi-Point rifle. He prefers to take pot shots at kids near the soccer field and the grassy knoll rather than go check the bombs. It is Dylan that peeks into the cafeteria at the time, not Eric.

Oh the bomb failure really pissed him off. His body language on that "iconic shot" of them on the cafeteria CCTV shows him limped over, slouched, like he was a failure, which he felt. And yeah, the broken nose saved many lives that day. Survivors said after he broke his nose, his bravado was all gone and he seemed very confused and dazed after, sometimes losing his balance while walking. And it goes on that thing of where they committed suicide quickly, because Eric realized this whole thing was a fuck up and he just wanted out.

ChaotixBoy wrote:

Eric had a huge ego. And he never even thought of a "plan b." He was so sure the bombs would work, so when they didn't. He just went all out. The shooting ended up turning really messy and not by their original plan at all.

This is exactly what I think too. I think it was Eric who told Dylan to go down into the Cafeteria to see what was going on with the bombs. Nothing happened and so Dylan ran back up and they went inside.

I believe they improvised the whole thing and I personally think that Eric never even thought that there was a chance the bombs wouldn't work. And after the Library massacre, Eric wanted to go to the Cafeteria. He was shooting at the tanks, they were throwing Molotov's at the tanks. Eric desperately wanted those bombs to work.

Eric's bombs didn't work, he broke his nose and he did not kill anywhere near the number of people he wanted to kill. And I think he died completely disappointed and probably thinking the whole thing wasn't even worth it.

I don't envision him and Dylan having some sort of goodbye where they hug each other and shake hands and all of that. I think Eric just walked away from the window, sat down and killed himself without even saying a word. Dylan was still messing around with a Molotov when Eric died.

Dylan, on the other hand, I don't think he gave a shit one way or the other. He was dying that day and that's all he really cared about. He didn't care what happened, just as long as the final outcome was him dying.

And of course, this is all just my opinion.

ChaotixBoy wrote:

Oh the bomb failure really pissed him off. His body language on that "iconic shot" of them on the cafeteria CCTV shows him limped over, slouched, like he was a failure, which he felt.

As someone who studied psychology, I'd be wary of trying to infer too much information from those few black-and-white CCTV images. They are not filmed during a normal interpersonal interaction, both are carrying weapons and are encumbered by ammo and small explosives. Also they were probably both a bit tired and on an adrenaline back-and-forth rush.

As a result of all of that, they are not gonna move in a "normal" way on the CCTV regardless of their internal mental states. Also the "slouch" seems to be him just adapting his position to the juice cup and the guns he has with him.

I'm not saying that this evidence that he was happy at the time, but its also not evidence that he was broken or depressed. The CCTV footage does not allow us that sort of insight imho.

ChaotixBoy wrote:

And yeah, the broken nose saved many lives that day. Survivors said after he broke his nose, his bravado was all gone and he seemed very confused and dazed after, sometimes losing his balance while walking.

I think this part is important, though there were conflicting opinions on the forums, including feedback from people who had their nose broken (we had a whole long topic about the broken nose, eitehr here or on the old forums).

I think the broken nose did have an impact on him, especially just after it happened. His exchange with Bree and him repeating the same question over and over is probably evidence of him being shaken and confused due to the impact.

Basically everything Jenn said is what I think lol

The only reason I believe Eric was upset about what happened was the fact that he never gave up on the bombs.  Not only did he continue to tell people that the school was going to explode but he continually went down to the commons to check it out.  

We cannot hear what they are saying of course but Eric shot at it and Dylan threw a bomb at it trying to get them to explode

And moreover, just how Eric was as a person prior to the 20th I think the failure killed him inside.  He put his everything into that day and it didn't turn out.  He was a failure.

He had spent his whole life feeling like a failure and we know how that went down.

Jenn wrote:

ChaotixBoy wrote:

Eric had a huge ego. And he never even thought of a "plan b." He was so sure the bombs would work, so when they didn't. He just went all out. The shooting ended up turning really messy and not by their original plan at all.

This is exactly what I think too. I think it was Eric who told Dylan to go down into the Cafeteria to see what was going on with the bombs. Nothing happened and so Dylan ran back up and they went inside.

I believe they improvised the whole thing and I personally think that Eric never even thought that there was a chance the bombs wouldn't work. And after the Library massacre, Eric wanted to go to the Cafeteria. He was shooting at the tanks, they were throwing Molotov's at the tanks. Eric desperately wanted those bombs to work.

Eric's bombs didn't work, he broke his nose and he did not kill anywhere near the number of people he wanted to kill. And I think he died completely disappointed and probably thinking the whole thing wasn't even worth it.

I don't envision him and Dylan having some sort of goodbye where they hug each other and shake hands and all of that. I think Eric just walked away from the window, sat down and killed himself without even saying a word. Dylan was still messing around with a Molotov when Eric died.

Dylan, on the other hand, I don't think he gave a shit one way or the other. He was dying that day and that's all he really cared about. He didn't care what happened, just as long as the final outcome was him dying.

And of course, this is all just my opinion.

I believe this is a very accurate accounting of the events!

I think they were rushing and did a shitty job on making the bombs

Eric was ignorant and didn't have a complete knowledge of bomb making, He thought a small detonator device and a can of camping fuel would be powerful enough to trigger the propane tank to explode when it wasn't, Those big propane tanks are strongly made and can withstand alot of damage, they even sometimes survive blazing hot fires without exploding from pressure buildup.
Though they seemed to fail in wiring and building the propane devices though one of their diversionary bombs made with a pipe bomb , a timer and small propane bottles seemed to detonate causing a field fire and alerting locals, so i don't know if it was their skill in wiring or rather Erics self percieved know how being the reason the Cafeteria bombs failed.