Why did Dylan let Evan live?

I’m sorry if this has been posted before and if it’s repetitive for the more experienced ''Columbiners'' here.

We’re in the library where this insane yahooing, woopee-hoo taunting happens. Dylan comes face to face with Evan Todd, someone who has been described as a jock and apparently was sporting a white cap on at the time of the shooting.

Dylan threatens to kill Evan whom he calls a ''fat f***'' (if I remember well). Evan says something like ‘’No! I never had a problem with you guys, never had, never will.’’ (I’m paraphrasing loosely here).

Dylan then looks at him a few seconds, pondering, and decides to let him live.
What happened here?

Evan was the epitome of what E&D reviled, plus he was insulted by Dylan. Why would Dylan let him live?

Was he touched by Evan’s speech to him? Did Dylan have a modicum of empathy left, something that may have resurfaced as the shooting progressed?

Evan lied about being a jock which probably saved his life. Dylan asked him directly if he was and he denied it, to which Dylan said "Good, we don't like jocks." Then Dylan asked to see Evan's face to verify he wasn't somebody he recognized.

Interestingly enough, Evan was actually the first person shot at in the library. After Harris says "Fine, I'll start shooting" he makes eye contact with Evan and shoots towards him. This is when Evan was "injured" from the splintering of the copy counter. The real question is why Eric doesn't kill him when Dylan says "you can have him." He had already shot at him once. Why not finish him off? Was it the broken nose? Were they simply tired of killing? Was Eric simply distracted at the time?

I can see why Dylan didn't kill him. He hardly killed anyone by himself during the shooting (1 if I'm correct). Everyone else killed was a combination of the two or by just Eric. Even when Dylan entered the cafeteria alone he didn't fire. Why this is the case is something of a mystery to me.

I think by the time they encountered Evan, Eric couldn't care less about shooting him. I think he wanted to get down to the cafeteria to mess with the bombs, because he said something along the lines of going down to the commons. It also seems as though Dylan and Eric didn't kill anyone they had a conversation with that day, they just let them go, Dylan in particular. He had 3 conversations with 3 different people(that I know of) and didn't shoot any of them. I tend to think that is why he didn't kill Evan, because he stood there talking to him.

I know it sounds a bit stupid, but this is my theory. In Natural Born Killers, Mickey and Mallory Knox always leave behind a witness to tell the tale of what they saw. In this instance, could Evan be the witness chosen by D+E to tell the tale?

JDM87 wrote:

I know it sounds a bit stupid, but this is my theory. In Natural Born Killers, Mickey and Mallory Knox always leave behind a witness to tell the tale of what they saw. In this instance, could Evan be the witness chosen by D+E to tell the tale?

It's not stupid at all! But Dylan allready let John Savage live, so that makes two of them...

True. Maybe two witnesses then?

Neither of them killed anyone that they had a conversation with (unless you want to count Dylans' exchange with Lance Kirklin as conversation..) My personal take on it is that they couldn't kill anyone that they spoke to because it gave that person a voice, they weren't just collateral damage or a dark table they were shooting under; they were actual people. I'm not a mind reader and I don't pretend to be but maybe it made them loose their nerve a little bit when it was someone that they actually spoke to.

areyoulistening wrote:

Neither of them killed anyone that they had a conversation with (unless you want to count Dylans' exchange with Lance Kirklin as conversation..) My personal take on it is that they couldn't kill anyone that they spoke to because it gave that person a voice, they weren't just collateral damage or a dark table they were shooting under; they were actual people. I'm not a mind reader and I don't pretend to be but maybe it made them loose their nerve a little bit when it was someone that they actually spoke to.

Great post.

areyoulistening wrote:

Neither of them killed anyone that they had a conversation with (unless you want to count Dylans' exchange with Lance Kirklin as conversation..) My personal take on it is that they couldn't kill anyone that they spoke to because it gave that person a voice, they weren't just collateral damage or a dark table they were shooting under; they were actual people. I'm not a mind reader and I don't pretend to be but maybe it made them loose their nerve a little bit when it was someone that they actually spoke to.

I agree. Remember Bree. Eric didn´t shot her.

Jenn wrote:

I think by the time they encountered Evan, Eric couldn't care less about shooting him. I think he wanted to get down to the cafeteria to mess with the bombs, because he said something along the lines of going down to the commons. It also seems as though Dylan and Eric didn't kill anyone they had a conversation with that day, they just let them go, Dylan in particular. He had 3 conversations with 3 different people(that I know of) and didn't shoot any of them. I tend to think that is why he didn't kill Evan, because he stood there talking to him.

That's a very good point.

But then, in this instance Dylan did ''offer'' Eric to kill Evan. As in ''I'm not killing him but you may do so''. A killer's generosity to his friend. And Eric who had been killing more indiscriminately did not take it up. Maybe because he was more interested in the bombs. Or maybe it's because he thought if Dylan let someone live he'll go with that decision.

If that's what it is, it doesn't seem that easy to kill, even if you've been rehearsing for a year or so. You would think the training would mind someone to kill with less restraint. But then, if you're at war, defending yourself or trying to commit a robbery, you probably don't talk to your victim before shooting.

I guess if you reduce the emotional distance between yourself and a potential victim, the empathy must kick in and it makes it harder to pull the trigger.

It is an interesting question why Dylan let Evan Todd live.
As we have discussed before there were a couple of students who had some kind of communication with E/D in the library and were spared including Evan Todd. From memory and as others mentioned there were exchanges between Dylan and John Savage and Eric and Bree Pasquale in the library, both John and Bree were uninjured.  

tragedy79 wrote:

JDM87 wrote:

I know it sounds a bit stupid, but this is my theory. In Natural Born Killers, Mickey and Mallory Knox always leave behind a witness to tell the tale of what they saw. In this instance, could Evan be the witness chosen by D+E to tell the tale?

It's not stupid at all! But Dylan already let John Savage live, so that makes two of them...

I also don't think this sounds stupid at all, it's a topic (as with many) where there are no right or wrong answers as none of us really know what was going on in Dylan's mind when he encountered Evan Todd, so we can only speculate. It is very possible that this was or could have been their intention. On the Basement Tapes there were allegedly comments made such as: "The teens discuss coming back as ghosts to haunt the survivors, to "create flashbacks from what we do and drive them insane," Eric tells the camera." Also Eric says "I hope people have flashbacks."  (Taken from Time Magazine and acolumbinesite: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] These comments were supposedly made on the tape recorded March 15th.  
Likewise I think it is safe to assume they had probably seen the movie Natural Born Killers a number of times, and as in the movie could have discussed leaving witnesses behind in order to tell their story. I'm not saying i think the exchange with Evan was specifically rehearsed but i feel it could be possible that at some point during the exchange Dylan had every intention of leaving Evan as a survivor to tell his story.

Evan Todd' s statement in the 11k is pretty detailed and is an interesting read. It is on pg(161 - 179)
Apologies that this is not the most eloquently written summary:
According to Evan in his initial statement he saw Eric standing in the hall directly outside the library. Evan refers to Eric by his name and says he would see him around school "almost every day." Evan states that he came "face to face" with both Eric and Dylan during the incident.
He said as he looked around the pillar he was hiding behind he saw Eric looking into the library and they made eye contact. Evan said at this point Eric immediately "racks a round" (referring to his shotgun) and fired the weapon. According to Evan he saw Eric work the pump action for the shotgun, Eric then pointed the weapon into the library. Evan stated the shotgun was pointing in his direction at the time. Evan believed Eric had seen him peering around the pillar at the point he charged the weapon and pointed it into the library. Evan then ducked behind the "copier." Evan saw Eric fire first and later clarifies he was positive it was Eric who fired the inital shotgun rounds into the library. He believes two shotgun rounds were fired into the library in his direction. Evan was hiding behind a wooden counter that he believed held a copy machine. Evan stated he knew one of the shotgun rounds had hit the wood counter causing splinters to fly which caused him injuries to his eye and back.
Up to this point Evan had not seen Dylan.
Evan says he saw Dylan coming around the counter from the west. He knew Dylan by name "from seeing him around school almost every day." He was able to confirm it was Dylan from news accounts and says he was "face to face" with him. "He was right up in my face."
After seeing Dylan Evan describes Dylan as checking the door to the magazine room, realizing it was locked he saw Dylan move to the open doorway of the room that was east of the magazine room. He saw Dylan "sweep" this room with his Tec-9.
Evan describes Dylan as then turing around and walking back in his direction. Evan said at that point Dylan "pulls out the chair and points the Tec-9 right in my face." Evan says he heard Dylan say "Oh look what we have here." At the same time Evan sees Eric approaching his location from the east.
(This is after Eric had injured his face, Evan describes Eric as appearing "dizzy" and "having to catch his balance" and looking like he had a "broken nose")
After Dylan's comment Evan says Eric replied with "What?" to which Dylan responded "Just some fat fuck." Evan says Dylan questioned him while pointing the Tec-9 in his face. Dylan asked him "Are you a jock?" Evan said he responded "No." Dylan then said "Well, that's good, we don't like jocks." Evan says Dylan paused then said "Let me see your face" Evan then removed his hat and tilted his face in an upward direction and made eye contact with Dylan. Dylan then said "Give me one good reason why I shouldn't kill you." Evan said he responded with "I don't want to get in trouble." He had no idea why he responded to Dylan in this way. After this response Evan said Dylan became angry stating "Trouble? You don't even know what fucking trouble is." Evan responded with "That's not what i meant, I mean, I don't have a problem with you guys, I never will and I never did." Evan says Dylan continued to stare at him for a moment then looked away stating "I'm gonna let this fat fuck live, you can have him if you want to"

According to Evan he said it appeared Eric was not paying attention to what Dylan said and he did not respond. He then heard Eric say "Lets go to the commons." This was the end of their communication. Evan clarified that throughout his exchange with Dylan he continuously pointed the Tec- 9 at his face and head area. Evan recalls seeing Eric walk towards the exit of the library, he said it was at this point Dylan finally lowered his weapon and turned away. Almost immediately he saw Dylan pick up a chair behind the counter and throw it down on a computer positioned on top of the counter.

I know it has been discussed before that Dylan did not know Evan prior to 4/20, this would certainly seem the case as he asked Evan to show his face and also asked him if he was a jock. I've always wondered if this statement was made because Dylan genuinely did not know who Evan was or was simply playing games and taunting him. Perhaps he wanted to intimidate and scare him?
According to the Columbine Report Evan was 15 years old at the time and was also a sophomore so i'm unsure how much interaction they would have had inside school with one another?
However Evan seemed to know Eric and Dylan by sight and appearance on the day. I guess most people are also familiar with Evan Todd's comments in Time Magazine:

Time Magazine wrote:

"Evan Todd, the 255-lb. defensive lineman who was wounded in the library, describes the climate this way: "Columbine is a clean, good place except for those rejects," Todd says of Klebold, Harris and their friends. "Most kids didn't want them there. They were into witchcraft. They were into voodoo dolls. Sure, we teased them. But what do you expect with kids who come to school with weird hairdos and horns on their hats? It's not just jocks; the whole school's disgusted with them. They're a bunch of homos, grabbing each other's private parts. If you want to get rid of someone, usually you tease' em. So the whole school would call them homos, and when they did something sick, we'd tell them, 'You're sick and that's wrong."

(December 20th 1999, pg 50 and 51)

In the case of Evan who knows if either E/D recognized him. Does anyone think Dylan did recognize Evan and was just toying with him?
Evan's early comments in his statement make it sound like Eric intentionally tried to shoot him. I'm just throwing a few ideas out there but, is it possible Eric recognized Evan and not Dylan? Did this make any difference? Was Evan mistaken and he didn't really know E/D prior to 4/20?

If Evan had an eye injury we don't know how bad this may have appeared, if there was blood on his face perhaps Dylan believed he had already been injured and for some reason decided to spare him. Maybe injuring as many as possible was also a goal of theirs.
It sounds like by the time Dylan had reached Evan, Eric was distracted both by hitting himself in the face and also by the fact the cafeteria bombs had still not exploded. Who knows to what extent Dylan was also distracted by Eric's injury / the failed cafeteria bombs. Could this have prevented him from shooting Evan?

areyoulistening wrote:

Neither of them killed anyone that they had a conversation with (unless you want to count Dylans' exchange with Lance Kirklin as conversation..) My personal take on it is that they couldn't kill anyone that they spoke to because it gave that person a voice, they weren't just collateral damage or a dark table they were shooting under; they were actual people. I'm not a mind reader and I don't pretend to be but maybe it made them loose their nerve a little bit when it was someone that they actually spoke to.

This is also a very good point. To what extent conversations humanized each potential victim to E/D we can only guess, but it is certainly a very interesting point to ponder.

It could be that the "novelty" of killing people had worn off by the point in which they reached Evan, or that they were starting to realize the magnitude of what they had just done. By the time they had reached Evan Todd they knew they had killed people and very likely believed the number of dead was far higher than it actually was. There was no turning back by this point, their options were suicide or prison and they would have known this. This may have effected their frame of mind.
Maybe it didn't matter if they killed anymore people by this point, perhaps it wasn't as "fun" as they had first thought it would be.
On the flip side perhaps sparing some of the students including Evan provided some sort of amusement for them. Maybe they enjoyed the power and the feeling they experienced playing God. Maybe Dylan got some kind of kick out of teasing Evan, this would be especially true if Dylan knew who Evan was and Evan had teased / bullied Dylan.
As mentioned maybe the preoccupation with the bombs not going off was enough of a distraction for both of them to want to hurry along and get back to the commons. The police had already arrived and they had already killed students in the library, maybe they felt they had caused enough destruction there and decided to quickly leave.  
There's so many possibilities.

I often wonder if Evan was just lucky that day, did Dylan genuinely not recognize him, and did Evan's comments about not having a problem with him in some way pacify Dylan temporarily and enough to save him? I'm frequently drawn to the conclusion Evan Todd was just very lucky Dylan found him when he did, and that he had managed to hold somewhat of a conversation with him. These factors may have just saved his life.

I hope this all made sense.

There are some discrepancies in Evan Todd's testimony that would have to be cleared up before we answer the question in this thread.

In his statements, Todd states that he knew both Eric and Dylan by their first names before the shooting. He also told a reporter that he was involved in bullying both of them and condemning them for their anti-social behavior before the shooting. If you take these statements at face value, it means that Evan knew them, they knew him, and they all knew he had bullied them.

That makes the question, "Why did Dylan let Evan live?" even harder to answer. Either Evan Todd's statements are incorrect--he didn't really know them, and he didn't really bully them--or Eric and Dylan let him go despite the fact that he was the only person they confronted who met the criteria of the jock in the white hat.

My sense of things is that Evan Todd did not know them and had not bullied them. In his interview, it seems like he might have just learned their names from the media, and in his statement to the reporter, he says the whole school bullied them, lumping his own acts of bullying in with everyone else's.

One thing that is never mentioned in discussions of their decisions that day is SWAT pressure.

Eric had exchanged fire with an officer before going into the school. He and Dylan had every reason to suspect that the police or the SWAT team would be in the building any second. Both Harris and Klebold knew that the doors to the break room, the periodicals room, and a conference room all communicated with an entrance to the school that was at the very top of the stairs, near where they had started shooting. In this picture, you can see the door propped open:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Evan Todd reports that before Klebold confronted him, Klebold tried the locks on these west rooms, gained access to one, and made a "sweeping" motion across the room with his Tec-9, as if to confront any armed law enforcement that might have made an entrance. Todd also reports that when Eric and Dylan left, they made similar "sweeping" motions, probably to make sure they weren't going to be jumped.

We take it for granted that the SWAT team arrived too late, but Eric and Dylan had no way of knowing the response would be so incompetent. One reason they might have left is because they thought time was running out. This doesn't explain Dylan's decision but it does explain Eric's urgency--for all he knew, SWAT was in the cafeteria already.

Great insights, here! Maybe leaving a few witnesses, playing God, was just as ''interesting'' as killing? Plus the pressure of the bombs not going off, SWAT coming in, broken nose, etc.

I don't really want to re-watch NBK the movie (geez, it's been almost 20 years already!) because I remember not liking it back then. But then, I do want to watch it for the insights into this massacre.

Thanks for the 11k reference, by the way! It's hard to find your way around specific testimonies in there.

lasttrain wrote:

One thing that is never mentioned in discussions of their decisions that day is SWAT pressure.

Eric had exchanged fire with an officer before going into the school.  He and Dylan had every reason to suspect that the police or the SWAT team would be in the building any second.  Both Harris and Klebold knew that the doors to the break room, the periodicals room, and a conference room all communicated with an entrance to the school that was at the very top of the stairs, near where they had started shooting.  In this picture, you can see the door propped open:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Evan Todd reports that before Klebold confronted him, Klebold tried the locks on these west rooms, gained access to one, and made a "sweeping" motion across the room with his Tec-9, as if to confront any armed law enforcement that might have made an entrance.  Todd also reports that when Eric and Dylan left, they made similar "sweeping" motions, probably to make sure they weren't going to be jumped.

We take it for granted that the SWAT team arrived too late, but Eric and Dylan had no way of knowing the response would be so incompetent.  One reason they might have left is because they thought time was running out.  This doesn't explain Dylan's decision but it does explain Eric's urgency--for all he knew, SWAT was in the cafeteria already.

These are all really good points and the likely combination of factors that contributed to their puzzling behavior.  

I agree that when E & D spoke to their faceless 'targets' it forged a connection and re-humanized their victims - making it harder to pull the trigger.
I recall on Ricki Lake that Evan Todd described Dylan's initial expression as angry and 'demonic' when he confronted Evan.  However, as the two exchanged words, Dylan stood up and it was if the rage evaporated off his face replaced by possible recognition in the moment.  A transformation took place and he lost the momentum and the nerve.  He became Dylan the person again in such a simple, ridiculous exchange - with Todd's illogical retort.    Dylan gave the honors to Eric to do the deed but Eric was a million miles away in thought..and in pain with his nose.  Eric only had one thing on his mind at that point: making the bombs detonate in the commons.   I know many people dislike it when Dylan is referred to as 'the follower' but I do tend to think that Dylan looked to Eric for direction in the 'what's next' itinerary for NBK.  It's pretty physically obvious from the video cam footage in the commons that Eric is leading the way down the steps and back up when they leave.  Dylan trails behind.  Both broke off and did some things separately but overall, Eric appears as the unspoken leader of the two.  I digress a bit on the topic but only to say that Dylan essentially lost his nerve with Todd and passed this potential victim off to Eric.

We can speculate all we want but to my analysis: I think the two emotions raining down on H/K were,

Harris- Disappointment
Klebold- Regret

by the end of the Library Massacre. They seemed as if they came up with other things to worry about after they carried the massacre in the Library. I think that is one thing to consider on why they possibly let Evan go, along with MANY others in the Library

JohnnyB wrote:

We can speculate all we want but to my analysis: I think the two emotions raining down on H/K were,

Harris- Disappointment
Klebold- Regret

by the end of the Library Massacre. They seemed as if they came up with other things to worry about after they carried the massacre in the Library. I think that is one thing to consider on why they possibly let Evan go, along with MANY others in the Library

Agreed.  As a side note, they were pretty naive to think their deaths would be by cop using deadly force.  Sure, that's possible, but what is likely is that the cop shoots them in the leg to put them out of commission , injuring them just enough to arrest them.   Or perhaps the bombs would've detonated and E & D get severe burns and limbs blown off - yet they're, unfortunately, still alive.   They would've been stuck in prison with third degree burns or spinal injuries.  Niiice.  None of the operation turned out as they planned.  It must've been rather terrifying to know that since the bombs never detonated as planned and the cops hadn't shown up for a show down - as planned,  that they would have to take their life in their own hands. Sure, they had the suicide as a 'backup plan' but actually carrying that out?  putting the guns to their head?  Even if they both wanted to die it still would've been a moment of resignation and hell for both to have to do the deed themselves.

@JohnnB: why do you think Dylan regret something?

At last their plans failed. Disappointment... I understand...

In most stories of Columbine, the Evan Todd exchange is viewed as a turning point because it marks the end of murdering. They didn't shoot anyone else, break into any rooms to confront other students, or attempt to kill any of the students who were obviously visible in the cafeteria.

Yet I wonder if it really is a turning point, because they eventually returned to the library, the last place they had seen students. What if the students huddled in the library had not left? It's hard to imagine Eric and Dylan ignoring them. They certainly wouldn't have committed suicide with fellow students looking on.

I don't believe it occurred to Eric and Dylan that all the students in the library would leave. I don't think it occurred to them that they would stay, either. I think they just didn't think about it. But they did go back to a place where they might have expected to see other students. This says to me that they had not necessarily abandoned the idea of murdering students.

Also, I've never been able to figure out whether they actually tried doors and closets in the cafeteria, kitchen, or science hallway. There are lots of reports to this effect, but are there any that can't be dismissed as students on the inside mistaking other students for Eric and Dylan? This would tell us something about the Evan Todd interaction, because it would tell us if they really had just lost their nerve with fellow students.

em81 wrote:

@JohnnB: why do you think Dylan regret something?

At last their plans failed. Disappointment... I understand...

I am wondering why you think Dylan had regret too? Because his behavior during the massacre didn't seem like he was regretting anything at all and right up until they went back into the Library, weren't they still running around shooting and taunting students?

As I stated: It's all to my best interpretation and analyis after a deep studying phase of the massacre. Since, there are NO EASY ANSWERS (No pun intended) How could anyone be right or wrong. I don't know...something about Evan's account made me believe that...

Quote :

Yet I wonder if it really is a turning point, because they eventually returned to the library, the last place they had seen students. What if the students huddled in the library had not left? It's hard to imagine Eric and Dylan ignoring them. They certainly wouldn't have committed suicide with fellow students looking on.

They were seen looking into classrooms and even making eye contact with students inside while they roamed the halls. They knew where students were, but for some reason chose to stop the killing spree.

Quote :

We can speculate all we want but to my analysis: I think the two emotions raining down on H/K were,

Harris- Disappointment
Klebold- Regret

by the end of the Library Massacre. They seemed as if they came up with other things to worry about after they carried the massacre in the Library. I think that is one thing to consider on why they possibly let Evan go, along with MANY others in the Library

I think this is actually spot on. The image of the boys' suicide is a very depressing scene to me. They return to the library to find nobody there who was still alive, make one half-assed attempt to shoot at cops (and fail), and then end their lives so close to their victims. They died completely alone except for each other, just as they had lived.

I think Evan Todd's calm and neutral manner probably saved his life. If he had told Dylan to screw himself and told him that he looked like a clown and attempted to stand up and confront Dylan? He would have been killed. As mentioned by others ,Evans calmness calmed Dylan's rage.

I don't know rik75. I personally would not say to someone holding a gun to my face that he looks like a clown and he should screw himself. That'd be a strange thing to do.

But then, a student in the Library (John Tomlin) confronted Dylan by saying something to the effect of ''don't you think you guys have done enough?'' or something like that. That's pretty ballsy! But, he died for that (maybe would have anyway). Medal of honour to John for ballsiness.

Based on witness testimonies on their behavior, spoken words and slow actions towards the end may have set these two emotions for H/K. Unfortunately, we will NEVER know. We can, however, speculate as we ALL do in these fourms.

Just based on the official story they after the boys left the Library, and let more than half go, I come to that conclusion. They both had to have known that time was winding down; them both knew they had enough ammunition to wipe out the entire Library, Commons (upon first entry) classrooms and even the restrooms.

So whatever "fun" they were having, I think came to a halt after the encounter with Evan Todd. So it is safe to assume that the encounter itself may have been the turning point into what could've been worse.

You can even see on the security cameras in the commons that their adrenelin rush and excitement were no longer in effect as I will say "reality" clicked in. I am pretty sure they must've thought "OK, what more can we do..."

There's so much insight here. I don't have anything to add, just enjoyed reading everybody's posts.

MarmaladeSkies wrote:

They died completely alone except for each other, just as they had lived.

This was so sad I almost burst into tears.

JohnnyB wrote:

Based on witness testimonies on their behavior, spoken words and slow actions towards the end may have set these two emotions for H/K.

Johnny, which statements near the end do you have in mind here? Their overheard statements near the end I have not researched that thoroughly, and I'm curious.