Did Evan Todd bully Eric and Dylan?

Did he bully them, or was he lying when he said he didn't really know them personally, and just saw them at school?

If we look at the reports it says Evan didn't personally know Dylan, or Eric..but he saw them at school every day. This makes sense because when Dylan spoke with Evan, he even asked Evan if he was a jock. Why would Dylan ask this if apparently he also said, "Evan Todd. You used to call me a fag. Who's the fag now?" <---- This line did not happen. Dylan didn't know Evan Todd. Evan never bullied Eric and Dylan...but then he said in the '99 time magazine he called them homo's, or whatever. But again, this still makes no sense because Dylan nor Eric were into voodoo, or any witchcraft (as far as we know).

So I'm not sure what to believe. Zero Hour apparently had Dylan say, "You used to call me a fag. Who's the fag now?" Yet from everywhere else I see this never happened, and Dylan just asked him if he was a jock, and to "Give me one good reason why I shouldn't kill you right now".

What do you guys think?

Yes, I think he did bully them and so did his friends but they bullied many people. Many people apparently lived in fear of this group at the school. I don't know about the others in the group but with Rocky it seems this is learned behavior as his family had a bullying reputation also.

I think he probably did bully them, but not on a face-to-face level. I feel like E/D may have been bullied by groups of jocks (in the hallway, in passing, or in the lunchroom) my guess is there wasn't just ONE bully that pissed them off but probably a group of people that put them down. I don't think they knew Evan Todd very well, but if Dylan had been discovered Evan with other jocks, things may have gone differently for him.

PaintItBlack wrote:

Yes, I think he did bully them and so did his friends but they bullied many people. Many people apparently lived in fear of this group at the school. I don't know about the others in the group but with Rocky it seems this is learned behavior as his family had a bullying reputation also.

Evan Todd wasn't part of Rocky's "Steroid Poster Group". As a matter fact Columbine's bullying problem was severe throughout '94-'98. But once Rocky, and his goons left it wasn't as bad + most of the TCM graduated a year prior as well. I doubt Rocky would have a freshman in his group when they were all seniors, and he would be a freshman. Evan Todd was a sophomore at the time of the shooting.

browneyes11 wrote:

I think he probably did bully them, but not on a face-to-face level. I feel like E/D may have been bullied by groups of jocks (in the hallway, in passing, or in the lunchroom) my guess is there wasn't just ONE bully that pissed them off but probably a group of people that put them down. I don't think they knew Evan Todd very well, but if Dylan had been discovered Evan with other jocks, things may have gone differently for him.

By all accounts the jock group that graduated in 1998 was particularly obnoxious and provoked or bumped into everyone (incluing girls) at school just because they could. Probably 90% of the students hated them and had one or several occassions when said jocks pushed them around.

E&D were entirely unremarkable in this respect. They disliked said jocks, like the rest of columbine. They had some scuffles with them, again like 90% of columbine. There were a few kids who were notorously badly bullied, E&D were not one of them.

Eric's shit list allegedly included said jocks and many witnesses who seen the list said it had people who everyone hated. Eric Veik was probably most vocal regarding this.

E&D had very personal issues behind the massacre, bullying was not one of them.


As for Todd, no there's nio evidence he bullied E&D and he was in a younger group than they were anyways. If Todd had bullied Eric, he'd be dead by now.

Evan Todd comes across as someone who was an overall bully to everyone. He'd kind of just pick on whoever was around at any given moment. A lot of kids who bully on an impersonal level simply do it for the attention. They might not know you but if their friends are around they'll call you names or point out any physical differences you have as a way to fit in with the "in" crowd. I'm sure if he had picked on them for a specific reason they'd have killed him that day in the library.

Nirvana92 wrote:

Evan Todd comes across as someone who was an overall bully to everyone. He'd kind of just pick on whoever was around at any given moment. A lot of kids who bully on an impersonal level simply do it for the attention. They might not know you but if their friends are around they'll call you names or point out any physical differences you have as a way to fit in with the "in" crowd. I'm sure if he had picked on them for a specific reason they'd have killed him that day in the library.

I think they would ghave certainly killed him if they had any personal beef with him whatsoever. They killed a lot of kids who did not do anything bad to them, so why in contrast would you spare someone who bullied you?

Doesn;'t make sense. I think Evan Todd surviving is the best evidence that he did not bully Eric or Dylan and that they probably didn't even know him that well. He was what? 2 years their junior?

Is there any evidence that Dylan said "Who's the fag now?" If this is true, it does seem to suggest previous interaction(s).

PaintItBlack wrote:

Is there any evidence that Dylan said "Who's the fag now?" If this is true, it does seem to suggest previous interaction(s).

Yes but it doesn't mean it was a major incident. "Fag" is a very common bully word in highschool. Its easy to throw around because you don't actually have to know someone to call them it. I was called fag by many kids I'd never even met before in school, and I unfortunately did the same to others. Evan was said to have told them he'd never had a problem with them before. If that weren't true and he'd picked on them a lot then they most certainly would have killed him then and there. For a real bully to deny it to their faces would have been a huge insult to E and D.

We can't rule out the fact that he may have been left alive on purpose though. I believe the last thing Dylan said to him was "No ill let you live" before leaving the library. These were two boys who saw themselves as Gods of sorts. What better way to show your God-like nature than to let your tormentor live after he's watched innocents die? "They did nothing to us and they died. You gave us shit and we let you live. Deal with that for the rest of your life." That was the very type of power E and D were willing to die to experience.

I agree with Evan. There is nothing in the 11K report that states Dylan said, "Evan Todd...you used to call me a fag. Who's the fag now?"

This never happened. This must have been recently something new, or a rumor. All the transcripts show more of Dylan saying,
"Look what we have here...."
"Just some fat fuck"
"Are you a jock?"
"Good. We don't like jocks. Let me see your face."
"Give me one good reason why I shouldn't kill you right now."
"TROUBLE?! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT FUCKING TROUBLE IS...."

Why would Dylan ask Evan if he's a jock If he already knows him? This implies they didn't know each other like that.

Nirvana92 wrote:

"They did nothing to us and they died. You gave us shit and we let you live. Deal with that for the rest of your life." That was the very type of power E and D were willing to die to experience.

Possible, but in the end unlikely given what esle we know about E&D. I can remotely imagine Dylan sparing Tod in the way you describe, but only if Eric din't even notice that Evan was there. If Eric ever received any crap from Evan and then seen him in the library, I'm sure that Evan would be dead or at least wounded badly and left for dead like Castaldo or Ireland were.

If I learned one thing about Eric fom his life history it was teh fact that Eric wasn't the type to make gestures like that.


Eric would probably just find some girl he barely knew and play out his power trip "I would kill you now but I'll let you live so the only reason you will wake up from now on is becauseI let you live" with her. Not with a guy who crossed him.

What confuses me Is Evan stated Dylan and Eric were "wiccans"...

Wtf?

lol wrote:

What confuses me Is Evan stated Dylan and Eric were "wiccans"...

Wtf?

Probably columbine hearsay regarding all TCM members. That and the TCM talking to satan, all being bisexual, girls initiated to TCM required to have sex blindfolded with a random member and other such nonsense.

Never heard of any E&D wicca connection whatsoever. perhaps there was someone in the TCM interested in Wicca, but it wasn't E&D.

Evan Todd claimed that he bullied them, but I don't believe him. They remembered every slight but neither recognized him as someone they knew.

All of the evidence I am aware of points to Evan Todd not bullying them. I personally believe if he bullied them he would have been killed.

lol wrote:

I agree with Evan. There is nothing in the 11K report that states Dylan said, "Evan Todd...you used to call me a fag. Who's the fag now?"

This never happened. This must have been recently something new, or a rumor. All the transcripts show more of Dylan saying,
"Look what we have here...."
"Just some fat fuck"
"Are you a jock?"
"Good. We don't like jocks. Let me see your face."
"Give me one good reason why I shouldn't kill you right now."
"TROUBLE?! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT FUCKING TROUBLE IS...."

Why would Dylan ask Evan if he's a jock If he already knows him? This implies they didn't know each other like that.

And it ended with Dylan saying something like "I'm going to let this fat fuck live. You can have him if you want." to Eric.

Eric didn't bother to kill him either.

As I said in the other thread, I disagree with you, Nirvana, that E & D put that much thought into it at that point of the day.

They were clearly showing signs of "rampage fatigue" by then, and didn't get the same kick out of point blank killing any more.

I personally think Todd is to be put in the same category as all the unscathed library witnesses: "could've been killed easily, but at that point, why even bother."

lol wrote:

Did he bully them, or was he lying when he said he didn't really know them personally, and just saw them at school?

If we look at the reports it says Evan didn't personally know Dylan, or Eric..but he saw them at school every day. This makes sense because when Dylan spoke with Evan, he even asked Evan if he was a jock. Why would Dylan ask this if apparently he also said, "Evan Todd. You used to call me a fag. Who's the fag now?" <---- This line did not happen. Dylan didn't know Evan Todd. Evan never bullied Eric and Dylan...but then he said in the '99 time magazine he called them homo's, or whatever. But again, this still makes no sense because Dylan nor Eric were into voodoo, or any witchcraft (as far as we know).

So I'm not sure what to believe. Zero Hour apparently had Dylan say, "You used to call me a fag. Who's the fag now?" Yet from everywhere else I see this never happened, and Dylan just asked him if he was a jock, and to "Give me one good reason why I shouldn't kill you right now".

What do you guys think?

I can't recall this. However, I found certain inaccuracies in the documentary. For instance 'everybody with white hats get up'. While they also told everyone to stand up. And this wasnt included in the documentary.

I think someone in here asked the question of how they knew that Evan Todd was a jock. From what I know, one jock pulled the white baseball cap away. Im not sure that was Todd, though, but it let him survive.

Eventually, I dont think theres any chance that we can fully comprehend why some people are spared and others are killed in a random shooting. Just a question: Do we ask ourselves why terrorists spare some and kill others?

It's seems to me like in cases where people are targeted indiscrimately, it doesnt matter to them. Does it have to make sense to us? IDK. Maybe the question is wether it makes sense to them?

Probably, but given how chunky he was I'm surprised he wasn't bullied.

Norwegian wrote:

Eventually, I dont think theres any chance that we can fully comprehend why some people are spared and others are killed in a random shooting. Just a question: Do we ask ourselves why terrorists spare some and kill others?

It's seems to me like in cases where people are targeted indiscrimately, it doesnt matter to them. Does it have to make sense to us? IDK. Maybe the question is wether it makes sense to them?

Because mass killers are usually insane they shoot at random.

Norwegian wrote:

Just a question: Do we ask ourselves why terrorists spare some and kill others?

I would certainly hope so.

Ivan wrote:

Because mass killers are usually insane they shoot at random.

That doesn't make any sense in this context; we're talking about shooters sparing people at random. Shooting at random is one thing but to avoid shooting someone in a rampage is usually a calculated action.