Did eric die first?

Ive heard alot of people discussing how eric shot himself first before dylan, but i remember reading how someone (i think patti nielson) heard them count to three amd then shoot themselves at the same time. Is that information inacurate?

Yes, it is.

I think enough evidence exists to prove that Eric did in fact die first. The famous count down has been speculated on for years.

Although I have watched/heard/read somewhere that Patti herself even said that there was no count down, and that something she had said was misinterpreted.

I just can't place where I came across it at the moment.

We also know Dylan lit a Molotov cocktail and Eric's brain matter was underneath it. Dylan also is asphyxiated on his own blood and was coughing for about five minutes

And there has been word that he took his jewelry off first.

I still wonder about the jewelry thing that's never really been confirmed for me. If there has been confirmation please let me know

Screamingophelia wrote:

And there has been word that he took his jewelry off first.

I still wonder about the jewelry thing that's never really been confirmed for me. If there has been confirmation please let me know

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  That has always intrigued me as well. IF he did take something off I wonder why he did. AND if he didn't remove anything then who did and for what purpose?

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

And there has been word that he took his jewelry off first.

I still wonder about the jewelry thing that's never really been confirmed for me. If there has been confirmation please let me know

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  That has always intrigued me as well. IF he did take something off I wonder why, he did. AND if he didn't remove anything then who did and for what purpose?

Also why did he keep his ring on? If it was Dylan who took it all off, why keep the ring?

I think the countdown came from that film Zero Day where the characters in there do count down before they shoot themselves.

I don't have a source, but I read/recall hearing that the coroner took off Dylan's jewelry in the library.

evelynssye wrote:

I don't have a source, but I read/recall hearing that the coroner took off Dylan's jewelry in the library.

If that is true, then it makes zero sense to me. Why would anything be removed while the body was still in the library? Especially something as small and unimportant as his jewelry?

Other then the SWAT checking for weapons, booby trap bombs, or signs of life, etc, nothing should have been removed at that time.

evelynssye wrote:

I don't have a source, but I read/recall hearing that the coroner took off Dylan's jewelry in the library.

I thought Dylan took it off himself?

I've heard its based on the condition of the molotov table after the suicides, with Harris' brain matter under the cocktail, but that's just what I heard

I didn't see this before but yes the cops started removing Dylan's jewelry in the library. They began to do so, then the bomb squad came over and stated they wanted to search the body again so the removal was halted and was not finished. You can find this in the 11k and I believe I have posted a ss of it here before.

We can tell Eric died first from Dylan's brain splatter on his leg. The countdown is a myth, and the coroner took off Dylan's jewelry. The coroner also stated Dylan was alive for a very short time after shooting himself due to blood in his lungs.

slippy123 wrote:

We can tell Eric died first from Dylan's brain splatter on his leg. The countdown is a myth, and the coroner took off Dylan's jewelry. The coroner also stated Dylan was alive for a very short time after shooting himself due to blood in his lungs.

Patrick heard him coughing for a couple minutes before he died

Screamingophelia wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

We can tell Eric died first from Dylan's brain splatter on his leg. The countdown is a myth, and the coroner took off Dylan's jewelry. The coroner also stated Dylan was alive for a very short time after shooting himself due to blood in his lungs.

Patrick heard him coughing for a couple minutes before he died

I know people think I am weird for saying this but thats sad :/ painful way to go.. not smart Dylan

rebel2013 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

We can tell Eric died first from Dylan's brain splatter on his leg. The countdown is a myth, and the coroner took off Dylan's jewelry. The coroner also stated Dylan was alive for a very short time after shooting himself due to blood in his lungs.

Patrick heard him coughing for a couple minutes before he died

I know people think I am weird for saying this but thats sad :/ painful way to go.. not smart Dylan

Most likely he was unconscious and it was an automated response from his body

Lizpuff wrote:

rebel2013 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

We can tell Eric died first from Dylan's brain splatter on his leg. The countdown is a myth, and the coroner took off Dylan's jewelry. The coroner also stated Dylan was alive for a very short time after shooting himself due to blood in his lungs.

Patrick heard him coughing for a couple minutes before he died

I know people think I am weird for saying this but thats sad :/ painful way to go.. not smart Dylan

Most likely he was unconscious and it was an automated response from his body

Absolutely he was unconscious and it was just a reaction from his body. He probably was supposed to commit suicide in a similar way to Eric, but saw what it did and chickened out. So, he didn't quite shoot himself "correctly" in order to just die immediately.

Just makes me cringe thinking about it.. like him holding a gun to his stomach at RR

I am more keen to believe that they didn't say any goodbyes to each other, I think eric probably just sat down and shot himself before dylan had noticed what he was doing. This makes sense as the faster you do it the less time you have to rethink it/get scared.

There is talks that after Dylan seen erics head blown off he got hesitant and nervous and paced in the library for a few mins and lighting a molotov before shooting himself.

Not sure why he saved a 9mm for his suicide bullet, I'd much rather of tried the shotgun

joebox97 wrote:

I am more keen to believe that they didn't say any goodbyes to each other, I think eric probably just sat down and shot himself before dylan had noticed what he was doing.

This is what I believe as well. I think it was quick. Dylan was doing his own thing and boom Eric was dead

Lizpuff wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

I am more keen to believe that they didn't say any goodbyes to each other, I think eric probably just sat down and shot himself before dylan had noticed what he was doing.

This is what I believe as well.  I think it was quick.  Dylan was doing his own thing and boom Eric was dead

I wonder if Dylan thought that they would do something like a countdown, I mean technically the way it went down Dylan had to kill himself alone anyway, something he was terrified of which is why NBK was his plan not to die alone.

joebox97 wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

I am more keen to believe that they didn't say any goodbyes to each other, I think eric probably just sat down and shot himself before dylan had noticed what he was doing.

This is what I believe as well.  I think it was quick.  Dylan was doing his own thing and boom Eric was dead

I wonder if Dylan thought that they would do something like a countdown, I mean technically the way it went down Dylan had to kill himself alone anyway, something he was terrified of which is why NBK was his plan not to die alone.

They had a hand gesture for killing themselves. I don't really know if they used any of the handsignals they planned to use that day. But I highly doubt they actually did the suicide one. I can't really explain it and have no proof obviously... just a feeling.

I think that there wasn't much talk at all before they committed suicide. I can see Eric saying "mission complete" or "it's time" to Dylan and just sitting down and pulling the trigger. Dylan probably saw Eric with his head blown off for a few seconds, closed his eyes and pulled the trigger.

slippy123 wrote:

I think that there wasn't much talk at all before they committed suicide. I can see Eric saying "mission complete" or "it's time" to Dylan and just sitting down and pulling the trigger. Dylan probably saw Eric with his head blown off for a few seconds, closed his eyes and pulled the trigger.

I still believe he paced. I think their suicide shots were more than a few mins apart

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

I think that there wasn't much talk at all before they committed suicide. I can see Eric saying "mission complete" or "it's time" to Dylan and just sitting down and pulling the trigger. Dylan probably saw Eric with his head blown off for a few seconds, closed his eyes and pulled the trigger.

I still believe he paced. I think their suicide shots were more than a few mins apart

Knowing how bad Dylan wanted to die for all those previous years I doubt it. With Eric dead, and the possibility the swat team could bust in at any moment, I don't think he wasted any more time then he had to.
Maybe a good 10-15 seconds after seeing Eric end it is what I think. He had no reason to pace and draw out the inevitable, there was only one option.

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

I think that there wasn't much talk at all before they committed suicide. I can see Eric saying "mission complete" or "it's time" to Dylan and just sitting down and pulling the trigger. Dylan probably saw Eric with his head blown off for a few seconds, closed his eyes and pulled the trigger.

I still believe he paced. I think their suicide shots were more than a few mins apart

Knowing how bad Dylan wanted to die for all those previous years I doubt it. With Eric dead, and the possibility the swat team could bust in at any moment, I don't think he wasted any more time then he had to.
Maybe a good 10-15 seconds after seeing Eric end it is what I think. He had no reason to pace and draw out the inevitable, there was only one option.

Yes he wanted to die and commit suicide but he also lit the molotov after eric shooting himself and before he shot himself. Even suicidal people can be scared of dying and be hesitant. I'm not saying he paced for 10 mins, but maybe a 2-3 mins including him setting up the molotov.

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

I think that there wasn't much talk at all before they committed suicide. I can see Eric saying "mission complete" or "it's time" to Dylan and just sitting down and pulling the trigger. Dylan probably saw Eric with his head blown off for a few seconds, closed his eyes and pulled the trigger.

I still believe he paced. I think their suicide shots were more than a few mins apart

Knowing how bad Dylan wanted to die for all those previous years I doubt it. With Eric dead, and the possibility the swat team could bust in at any moment, I don't think he wasted any more time then he had to.
Maybe a good 10-15 seconds after seeing Eric end it is what I think. He had no reason to pace and draw out the inevitable, there was only one option.

Yes he wanted to die and commit suicide but he also lit the molotov after eric shooting himself and before he shot himself. Even suicidal people can be scared of dying and be hesitant. I'm not saying he paced for 10 mins, but maybe a 2-3 mins including him setting up the molotov.

I'm pretty sure Dylan lit the Molotov before Eric killed himself by the way Eric's brain matter was burnt onto the desk, and they had to scrape it off.
The only way the matter would be stuck to the table is if it was there before it was lit on fire, which forensics proved.
So Dylan probably threw the Molotov 10 or so seconds before Eric killed himself.
So again there was really nothing for Dylan to do to make him walk around for 2 minutes alone, with the swat team possibly at the door.

joebox97 wrote:

Not sure why he saved a 9mm for his suicide bullet, I'd much rather of tried the shotgun

He was probably disgusted after seeing Eric's head get almost literally blown to pieces. As absurd as it seems, I think he wanted a "cleaner" death.

QuestionMark wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

Not sure why he saved a 9mm for his suicide bullet, I'd much rather of tried the shotgun

He was probably disgusted after seeing Eric's head get almost literally blown to pieces. As absurd as it seems, I think he wanted a "cleaner" death.

I can't imagine what Dylan was thinking when he saw Eric with half his head blown off.
Like yes they just got done killing people, but to see your "best friend" die in such a brutal way, I can totally see Dylan wanting to go out in a cleaner way.

QuestionMark wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

Not sure why he saved a 9mm for his suicide bullet, I'd much rather of tried the shotgun

He was probably disgusted after seeing Eric's head get almost literally blown to pieces. As absurd as it seems, I think he wanted a "cleaner" death.

Yea but he saved a 9mm bullet in his boot for his suicide so even before he seen eric dead he was planning to do it with the 9mm

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

I think that there wasn't much talk at all before they committed suicide. I can see Eric saying "mission complete" or "it's time" to Dylan and just sitting down and pulling the trigger. Dylan probably saw Eric with his head blown off for a few seconds, closed his eyes and pulled the trigger.

I still believe he paced. I think their suicide shots were more than a few mins apart

Knowing how bad Dylan wanted to die for all those previous years I doubt it. With Eric dead, and the possibility the swat team could bust in at any moment, I don't think he wasted any more time then he had to.
Maybe a good 10-15 seconds after seeing Eric end it is what I think. He had no reason to pace and draw out the inevitable, there was only one option.

Yes he wanted to die and commit suicide but he also lit the molotov after eric shooting himself and before he shot himself. Even suicidal people can be scared of dying and be hesitant. I'm not saying he paced for 10 mins, but maybe a 2-3 mins including him setting up the molotov.

I'm pretty sure Dylan lit the Molotov before Eric killed himself by the way Eric's brain matter was burnt onto the desk, and they had to scrape it off.
The only way the matter would be stuck to the table is if it was there before it was lit on fire, which forensics proved.
So Dylan probably threw the Molotov 10 or so seconds before Eric killed himself.
So again there was really nothing for Dylan to do to make him walk around for 2 minutes alone, with the swat team possibly at the door.

It's almost as if you were in the library when it happened

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

I think that there wasn't much talk at all before they committed suicide. I can see Eric saying "mission complete" or "it's time" to Dylan and just sitting down and pulling the trigger. Dylan probably saw Eric with his head blown off for a few seconds, closed his eyes and pulled the trigger.

I still believe he paced. I think their suicide shots were more than a few mins apart

Knowing how bad Dylan wanted to die for all those previous years I doubt it. With Eric dead, and the possibility the swat team could bust in at any moment, I don't think he wasted any more time then he had to.
Maybe a good 10-15 seconds after seeing Eric end it is what I think. He had no reason to pace and draw out the inevitable, there was only one option.

Yes he wanted to die and commit suicide but he also lit the molotov after eric shooting himself and before he shot himself. Even suicidal people can be scared of dying and be hesitant. I'm not saying he paced for 10 mins, but maybe a 2-3 mins including him setting up the molotov.

I'm pretty sure Dylan lit the Molotov before Eric killed himself by the way Eric's brain matter was burnt onto the desk, and they had to scrape it off.
The only way the matter would be stuck to the table is if it was there before it was lit on fire, which forensics proved.
So Dylan probably threw the Molotov 10 or so seconds before Eric killed himself.
So again there was really nothing for Dylan to do to make him walk around for 2 minutes alone, with the swat team possibly at the door.

It's almost as if you were in the library when it happened

hahah! I am not sure how much time spanned but I don't think it was too long. I do think that the shock of seeing your friend lying there dead must have been huge. And if Eric did not say anything to Dylan beforehand the shock would have been larger. What Dylan did bc of the shock is a grey area. Did it make him want to kill himself right away to not be alone/caught/simply still alive? Or would he have been hesitant after seeing him die? Who knows really.

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

I think that there wasn't much talk at all before they committed suicide. I can see Eric saying "mission complete" or "it's time" to Dylan and just sitting down and pulling the trigger. Dylan probably saw Eric with his head blown off for a few seconds, closed his eyes and pulled the trigger.

I still believe he paced. I think their suicide shots were more than a few mins apart

Knowing how bad Dylan wanted to die for all those previous years I doubt it. With Eric dead, and the possibility the swat team could bust in at any moment, I don't think he wasted any more time then he had to.
Maybe a good 10-15 seconds after seeing Eric end it is what I think. He had no reason to pace and draw out the inevitable, there was only one option.

Yes he wanted to die and commit suicide but he also lit the molotov after eric shooting himself and before he shot himself. Even suicidal people can be scared of dying and be hesitant. I'm not saying he paced for 10 mins, but maybe a 2-3 mins including him setting up the molotov.

I'm pretty sure Dylan lit the Molotov before Eric killed himself by the way Eric's brain matter was burnt onto the desk, and they had to scrape it off.
The only way the matter would be stuck to the table is if it was there before it was lit on fire, which forensics proved.
So Dylan probably threw the Molotov 10 or so seconds before Eric killed himself.
So again there was really nothing for Dylan to do to make him walk around for 2 minutes alone, with the swat team possibly at the door.

It's almost as if you were in the library when it happened

It's speculation based on logic.
I gave 3 logical reasons why it made sense for Dylan to just end it right after Eric killed himself. I'm all for having my mind changed but you didn't give a single logical reason why he'd wait 3 minutes aside from saying he lit a Molotov which takes literally 2 seconds and the fact he had a bullet in his boot which I have no idea what that has to do with the time he took to commit suicide.
Browsing through older posts the majority of the forum doesn't think he was alive any longer than it takes to throw a molly and shoot himself, and I tend to think that makes the most sense in that situation.

When trying to state a point, using sarcasm just makes you look like you ran out of things to say.
Tell us logically why you think Dylan who wanted to die badly for years, would wonder around for 3 minutes ALONE, not knowing if swat was going to break in any second, and what you think he was doing for 3 minutes?

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

I think that there wasn't much talk at all before they committed suicide. I can see Eric saying "mission complete" or "it's time" to Dylan and just sitting down and pulling the trigger. Dylan probably saw Eric with his head blown off for a few seconds, closed his eyes and pulled the trigger.

I still believe he paced. I think their suicide shots were more than a few mins apart

Knowing how bad Dylan wanted to die for all those previous years I doubt it. With Eric dead, and the possibility the swat team could bust in at any moment, I don't think he wasted any more time then he had to.
Maybe a good 10-15 seconds after seeing Eric end it is what I think. He had no reason to pace and draw out the inevitable, there was only one option.

Yes he wanted to die and commit suicide but he also lit the molotov after eric shooting himself and before he shot himself. Even suicidal people can be scared of dying and be hesitant. I'm not saying he paced for 10 mins, but maybe a 2-3 mins including him setting up the molotov.

I'm pretty sure Dylan lit the Molotov before Eric killed himself by the way Eric's brain matter was burnt onto the desk, and they had to scrape it off.
The only way the matter would be stuck to the table is if it was there before it was lit on fire, which forensics proved.
So Dylan probably threw the Molotov 10 or so seconds before Eric killed himself.
So again there was really nothing for Dylan to do to make him walk around for 2 minutes alone, with the swat team possibly at the door.

It's almost as if you were in the library when it happened

It's speculation based on logic.
I gave 3 logical reasons why it made sense for Dylan to just end it right after Eric killed himself. I'm all for having my mind changed but you didn't give a single logical reason why he'd wait 3 minutes aside from saying he lit a Molotov which takes literally 2 seconds and the fact he had a bullet in his boot which I have no idea what that has to do with the time he took to commit suicide.
Browsing through older posts the majority of the forum doesn't think he was alive any longer than it takes to throw a molly and shoot himself, and I tend to think that makes the most sense in that situation.

When trying to state a point, using sarcasm just makes you look like you ran out of things to say.
Tell us logically why you think Dylan who wanted to die badly for years, would wonder around for 3 minutes ALONE, not knowing if swat was going to break in any second, and what you think he was doing for 3 minutes?

I didn't state exactly 3 mins. I said 2-3mins, and technically i'm not "stating" anything, its my opinion and its mine alone. Hesitating to commit suicide can take any amount of time, i've seen many suicide cases, some even filmed where the person excessively wanting to commit suicide drags it out and makes excuses to hold it off for more time. Some people want to die and commit suicide but they are still scared of the act itself with questions like, will it hurt?, how long will it take? Is there an afterlife? where will I go? on and on. NO ONE will ever know what exactly happen including yourself, logic based on speculation doesn't mean shit. Sarcasm came from pushing your "speculation based on logic" on to others as if its fact.

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

I think that there wasn't much talk at all before they committed suicide. I can see Eric saying "mission complete" or "it's time" to Dylan and just sitting down and pulling the trigger. Dylan probably saw Eric with his head blown off for a few seconds, closed his eyes and pulled the trigger.

I still believe he paced. I think their suicide shots were more than a few mins apart

Knowing how bad Dylan wanted to die for all those previous years I doubt it. With Eric dead, and the possibility the swat team could bust in at any moment, I don't think he wasted any more time then he had to.
Maybe a good 10-15 seconds after seeing Eric end it is what I think. He had no reason to pace and draw out the inevitable, there was only one option.

Yes he wanted to die and commit suicide but he also lit the molotov after eric shooting himself and before he shot himself. Even suicidal people can be scared of dying and be hesitant. I'm not saying he paced for 10 mins, but maybe a 2-3 mins including him setting up the molotov.

I'm pretty sure Dylan lit the Molotov before Eric killed himself by the way Eric's brain matter was burnt onto the desk, and they had to scrape it off.
The only way the matter would be stuck to the table is if it was there before it was lit on fire, which forensics proved.
So Dylan probably threw the Molotov 10 or so seconds before Eric killed himself.
So again there was really nothing for Dylan to do to make him walk around for 2 minutes alone, with the swat team possibly at the door.

It's almost as if you were in the library when it happened

It's speculation based on logic.
I gave 3 logical reasons why it made sense for Dylan to just end it right after Eric killed himself. I'm all for having my mind changed but you didn't give a single logical reason why he'd wait 3 minutes aside from saying he lit a Molotov which takes literally 2 seconds and the fact he had a bullet in his boot which I have no idea what that has to do with the time he took to commit suicide.
Browsing through older posts the majority of the forum doesn't think he was alive any longer than it takes to throw a molly and shoot himself, and I tend to think that makes the most sense in that situation.

When trying to state a point, using sarcasm just makes you look like you ran out of things to say.
Tell us logically why you think Dylan who wanted to die badly for years, would wonder around for 3 minutes ALONE, not knowing if swat was going to break in any second, and what you think he was doing for 3 minutes?

I didn't state exactly 3 mins. I said 2-3mins, and technically i'm not "stating" anything, its my opinion and its mine alone. Hesitating to commit suicide can take any amount of time, i've seen many suicide cases, some even filmed where the person excessively wanting to commit suicide drags it out and makes excuses to hold it off for more time. Some people want to die and commit suicide but they are still scared of the act itself with questions like, will it hurt?, how long will it take? Is there an afterlife? where will I go? on and on. NO ONE will ever know what exactly happen including yourself, logic based on speculation doesn't mean shit. Sarcasm came from pushing your "speculation based on logic" on to others as if its fact.

Well obviously no one knows, which is why you speculate and use logic to try and put together reasons why he would or wouldn't wait 2-3 minutes.
You are absolutely "stating" your opinion, just as I am stating mine.
So you're telling me Dylan waited until Eric killed himself, and with police closing in (or so they thought) to sit down and have a life pondering session with himself of where he would go, and if suicide will hurt ?
Even though they talked about the afterlife and their suicides many times in their journals and in the basement tapes showing that they pondered those questions long before the massacre happened, so you can see why that makes no sense to me.
Logic based on speculation doesn't mean shit, wow. Tell that to all the detectives and forensic scientists that put the puzzle pieces of murders with little to no evidence together, they would beg to differ.

You also tried to say Dylan had a 9mm bullet in his boot because he planned on using his Tec-9 to kill himself as if it is a fact, but it's pure speculation.
His other weapon was a shotgun, and the shotgun shells were 3 times the size of a 9mm bullet, and were made out of plastic.
So it could of simply been the shotgun shell was too big to walk comfortably with in his boot, and if stepped on, the plastic would distort making the shell useless.
What good would a shotgun shell be that couldn't be fired from his gun?

All the 9mm bullet in his boot shows, is that in the case they somehow ran out of ammo, he would have a bullet to kill himself with so he wasn't taken alive.
He could of planned to use the shotgun, but after seeing Eric's head blown off he decided to take a "cleaner" way out like question mark stated.

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

I think that there wasn't much talk at all before they committed suicide. I can see Eric saying "mission complete" or "it's time" to Dylan and just sitting down and pulling the trigger. Dylan probably saw Eric with his head blown off for a few seconds, closed his eyes and pulled the trigger.

I still believe he paced. I think their suicide shots were more than a few mins apart

Knowing how bad Dylan wanted to die for all those previous years I doubt it. With Eric dead, and the possibility the swat team could bust in at any moment, I don't think he wasted any more time then he had to.
Maybe a good 10-15 seconds after seeing Eric end it is what I think. He had no reason to pace and draw out the inevitable, there was only one option.

Yes he wanted to die and commit suicide but he also lit the molotov after eric shooting himself and before he shot himself. Even suicidal people can be scared of dying and be hesitant. I'm not saying he paced for 10 mins, but maybe a 2-3 mins including him setting up the molotov.

I'm pretty sure Dylan lit the Molotov before Eric killed himself by the way Eric's brain matter was burnt onto the desk, and they had to scrape it off.
The only way the matter would be stuck to the table is if it was there before it was lit on fire, which forensics proved.
So Dylan probably threw the Molotov 10 or so seconds before Eric killed himself.
So again there was really nothing for Dylan to do to make him walk around for 2 minutes alone, with the swat team possibly at the door.

It's almost as if you were in the library when it happened

It's speculation based on logic.
I gave 3 logical reasons why it made sense for Dylan to just end it right after Eric killed himself. I'm all for having my mind changed but you didn't give a single logical reason why he'd wait 3 minutes aside from saying he lit a Molotov which takes literally 2 seconds and the fact he had a bullet in his boot which I have no idea what that has to do with the time he took to commit suicide.
Browsing through older posts the majority of the forum doesn't think he was alive any longer than it takes to throw a molly and shoot himself, and I tend to think that makes the most sense in that situation.

When trying to state a point, using sarcasm just makes you look like you ran out of things to say.
Tell us logically why you think Dylan who wanted to die badly for years, would wonder around for 3 minutes ALONE, not knowing if swat was going to break in any second, and what you think he was doing for 3 minutes?

I didn't state exactly 3 mins. I said 2-3mins, and technically i'm not "stating" anything, its my opinion and its mine alone. Hesitating to commit suicide can take any amount of time, i've seen many suicide cases, some even filmed where the person excessively wanting to commit suicide drags it out and makes excuses to hold it off for more time. Some people want to die and commit suicide but they are still scared of the act itself with questions like, will it hurt?, how long will it take? Is there an afterlife? where will I go? on and on. NO ONE will ever know what exactly happen including yourself, logic based on speculation doesn't mean shit. Sarcasm came from pushing your "speculation based on logic" on to others as if its fact.

Well obviously no one knows, which is why you speculate and use logic to try and put together reasons why he would or wouldn't wait 2-3 minutes.
You are absolutely "stating" your opinion, just as I am stating mine.
So you're telling me Dylan waited until Eric killed himself, and with police closing in (or so they thought) to sit down and have a life pondering session with himself of where he would go, and if suicide will hurt ?
Even though they talked about the afterlife and their suicides many times in their journals and in the basement tapes showing that they pondered those questions long before the massacre happened, so you can see why that makes no sense to me.
Logic based on speculation doesn't mean shit, wow. Tell that to all the detectives and forensic scientists that put the puzzle pieces of murders with little to no evidence together, they would beg to differ.

You also tried to say Dylan had a 9mm bullet in his boot because he planned on using his Tec-9 to kill himself as if it is a fact, but it's pure speculation.
His other weapon was a shotgun, and the shotgun shells were 3 times the size of a 9mm bullet, and were made out of plastic.
So it could of simply been the shotgun shell was too big to walk comfortably with in his boot, and if stepped on, the plastic would distort making the shell useless.
What good would a shotgun shell be that couldn't be fired from his gun?

All the 9mm bullet in his boot shows, is that in the case they somehow ran out of ammo, he would have a bullet to kill himself with so he wasn't taken alive.
He could of planned to use the shotgun, but after seeing Eric's head blown off he decided to take a "cleaner" way out like question mark stated.

I'm done wasting time on you, obviously everything I say you either don't read or understand. Your Mr. right and I believe that 100% everything you say is a fact and that is exactly what happened, I am obviously very dumb for speculating that anyone is afraid of suicide and expressing my opinion. Man my eyes have really opened up, I am so glad I am in the presence of such a great mind like yourself, can't wait to learn more facts from you.

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

I think that there wasn't much talk at all before they committed suicide. I can see Eric saying "mission complete" or "it's time" to Dylan and just sitting down and pulling the trigger. Dylan probably saw Eric with his head blown off for a few seconds, closed his eyes and pulled the trigger.

I still believe he paced. I think their suicide shots were more than a few mins apart

Knowing how bad Dylan wanted to die for all those previous years I doubt it. With Eric dead, and the possibility the swat team could bust in at any moment, I don't think he wasted any more time then he had to.
Maybe a good 10-15 seconds after seeing Eric end it is what I think. He had no reason to pace and draw out the inevitable, there was only one option.

Yes he wanted to die and commit suicide but he also lit the molotov after eric shooting himself and before he shot himself. Even suicidal people can be scared of dying and be hesitant. I'm not saying he paced for 10 mins, but maybe a 2-3 mins including him setting up the molotov.

I'm pretty sure Dylan lit the Molotov before Eric killed himself by the way Eric's brain matter was burnt onto the desk, and they had to scrape it off.
The only way the matter would be stuck to the table is if it was there before it was lit on fire, which forensics proved.
So Dylan probably threw the Molotov 10 or so seconds before Eric killed himself.
So again there was really nothing for Dylan to do to make him walk around for 2 minutes alone, with the swat team possibly at the door.

It's almost as if you were in the library when it happened

It's speculation based on logic.
I gave 3 logical reasons why it made sense for Dylan to just end it right after Eric killed himself. I'm all for having my mind changed but you didn't give a single logical reason why he'd wait 3 minutes aside from saying he lit a Molotov which takes literally 2 seconds and the fact he had a bullet in his boot which I have no idea what that has to do with the time he took to commit suicide.
Browsing through older posts the majority of the forum doesn't think he was alive any longer than it takes to throw a molly and shoot himself, and I tend to think that makes the most sense in that situation.

When trying to state a point, using sarcasm just makes you look like you ran out of things to say.
Tell us logically why you think Dylan who wanted to die badly for years, would wonder around for 3 minutes ALONE, not knowing if swat was going to break in any second, and what you think he was doing for 3 minutes?

I didn't state exactly 3 mins. I said 2-3mins, and technically i'm not "stating" anything, its my opinion and its mine alone. Hesitating to commit suicide can take any amount of time, i've seen many suicide cases, some even filmed where the person excessively wanting to commit suicide drags it out and makes excuses to hold it off for more time. Some people want to die and commit suicide but they are still scared of the act itself with questions like, will it hurt?, how long will it take? Is there an afterlife? where will I go? on and on. NO ONE will ever know what exactly happen including yourself, logic based on speculation doesn't mean shit. Sarcasm came from pushing your "speculation based on logic" on to others as if its fact.

Well obviously no one knows, which is why you speculate and use logic to try and put together reasons why he would or wouldn't wait 2-3 minutes.
You are absolutely "stating" your opinion, just as I am stating mine.
So you're telling me Dylan waited until Eric killed himself, and with police closing in (or so they thought) to sit down and have a life pondering session with himself of where he would go, and if suicide will hurt ?
Even though they talked about the afterlife and their suicides many times in their journals and in the basement tapes showing that they pondered those questions long before the massacre happened, so you can see why that makes no sense to me.
Logic based on speculation doesn't mean shit, wow. Tell that to all the detectives and forensic scientists that put the puzzle pieces of murders with little to no evidence together, they would beg to differ.

You also tried to say Dylan had a 9mm bullet in his boot because he planned on using his Tec-9 to kill himself as if it is a fact, but it's pure speculation.
His other weapon was a shotgun, and the shotgun shells were 3 times the size of a 9mm bullet, and were made out of plastic.
So it could of simply been the shotgun shell was too big to walk comfortably with in his boot, and if stepped on, the plastic would distort making the shell useless.
What good would a shotgun shell be that couldn't be fired from his gun?

All the 9mm bullet in his boot shows, is that in the case they somehow ran out of ammo, he would have a bullet to kill himself with so he wasn't taken alive.
He could of planned to use the shotgun, but after seeing Eric's head blown off he decided to take a "cleaner" way out like question mark stated.

I'm done wasting time on you, obviously everything I say you either don't read or understand. Your Mr. right and I believe that 100% everything you say is a fact and that is exactly what happened, I am obviously very dumb for speculating that anyone is afraid of suicide and expressing my opinion. Man my eyes have really opened up, I am so glad I am in the presence of such a great mind like yourself, can't wait to learn more facts from you.

Woah, you're the one who tried saying Dylan kept a bullet in his boot because he planned to use his Tec-9 to kill himself as if it was is a fact, which in reality no one knows. So who really is the one acting like their theory is fact?
People debate theory's on this forum all the time, and usually express their logical reasons to why they came to a certain conclusion.
My theory is obviously pure speculation, but the fact that they both talked about their death's and the afterlife many times before the massacre is a fact.
With that in mind, I simply asked why Dylan would wonder alone and risk getting caught to ponder ideas he already talked, wrote, and obviously thought about many times before, and once again, no answer just sarcasm.
Believe whatever floats your boat. I'm not trying to change your mind, this is just a topic that interests me.
I just asked a simple question of what do you assume Dylan would be doing for 2-3 minutes knowing that he already pondered the ideas you stated, in his journals and the BT's.
I gave logical rebuttals based on the forensic evidence of the Molotov, and things he wrote about or said that makes me question your theory.
It seems like you don't like to be questioned because you can't logically answer without resorting to using bad sarcasm.
Not one time did I say anything I'm stating is a fact, if you haven't figured that out yet.

I know that a lot of people even the most suicidal can be afraid to actually do it. Look at the many times Dylan said he was going to die and he was still alive... I think about people like Gene Sprague for instance who jumped from the Golden Gate Bridge. Took him 90 min to jump....

But for me, I think once Eric was gone Dylan was quick to go after. His buddy was now gone, he was alone, and the cops were coming.

Lizpuff wrote:

I know that a lot of people even the most suicidal can be afraid to actually do it.  Look at the many times Dylan said he was going to die and he was still alive... I think about people like Gene Sprague for instance who jumped from the Golden Gate Bridge.  Took him 90 min to jump....

But for me, I think once Eric was gone Dylan was quick to go after.  His buddy was now gone, he was alone, and the cops were coming.

Absolutely, Liz. In this situation, with Eric dead, and a swarm of police and swat teams outside, I agree.
Suicide was the one and only way out. They both obviously knew this, and were well prepared to die, so I just don't see why or what Dylan would be doing in that time frame that would make him hesitate for 3 minutes, aside from risking a possible capture by the cops. From his journal writings, Dylan seemed "excited" and more than ready to die. So although anything is possible and we may never know, it seems highly unlikely to me that he waited anymore than 30 seconds maximum to pull the trigger on himself.

We all have our theory's, as there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to certain Columbine theory's we may never know the true answer to.
I enjoy hearing others theory's and I'll gladly give my reasoning to any theory I might have.
If someone throws out some information that might make more logical sense in a certain situation, I'm always down to hear them out and have a discourse about why I agree or don't.
Even though I've said many times it's "speculation" and a "theory" he somehow twisted it into saying my theory is fact, when he was the one trying to say for a fact what the bullet in his boot was was for,
but somehow I'm the one who doesn't understand.
I bring up logical rebuttals, and never get all mad and start digging in my bag of bad sarcasm for someone who disagrees, but to each his own.