The most mind blowing part about Columbine

The most mind blowing part about Columbine is that,
It took police / swat almost 3 hours after the shooting, to actually enter the school.
I'm sure it's been talked about this , but does anyone else find this as the most crazy fact about Columbine? This was 1999.... Not 1899.. These werent military men being attacked... They were 14-18 year old TEENAGERS.
The most insane thing to me is that not one singular human being decided to be a hero and challenge 2 skinny 17-18 year old kids with $600 worth of weaponry. Look, i'm not ignorant to the fact that protocol was different... No policeman was required to storm in there and take out the gunmen. Still, i'm surprised some adult didnt just run in with a 12 gauge shotgun (probably used for hunting) and challenge E&D.
I know protocol has been changed since, and police are now trained to storm an active shooter ASAP. It still keeps me up at night. If Columbine happened in 2019, E&D would have basically took about 3-4 lives before they were charged by policemen.
i guess the point of my post is to ask you guys if you feel similar? Policemen were listening to kids be murdered 1 by 1, they knew it wasn't 10 dudes killing people, they could hear the gunshots. This was 20 years ago, not 200. I'm still in shock that nobody could / would do anything to help those poor kids in the library.

Rebbie556 wrote:

The most mind blowing part about Columbine is that,
It took police / swat almost 3 hours after the shooting, to actually enter the school.
I'm sure it's been talked about  this , but does anyone else find this as the most crazy fact about Columbine? This was 1999.... Not 1899.. These werent military men being attacked... They were 14-18 year old TEENAGERS.
The most insane thing to me is that not one singular human being decided to be a hero and challenge 2 skinny 17-18 year old kids with $600 worth of weaponry. Look, i'm not ignorant to the fact that protocol was different... No policeman was required to storm in there and take out the gunmen. Still, i'm surprised some adult didnt just run in with a 12 gauge shotgun (probably used for hunting) and challenge E&D.
I know protocol has been changed since, and police are now trained to storm an active shooter ASAP. It still keeps me up at night. If Columbine happened in 2019, E&D would have basically took about 3-4 lives before they were charged by policemen.
i guess the point of my post is to ask you guys if you feel similar? Policemen were listening to kids be murdered 1 by 1, they knew it wasn't 10 dudes killing people, they could hear the gunshots. This was 20 years ago, not 200. I'm still in shock that nobody could / would do anything to help those poor kids in the library.

It's not necessarily mind blowing to me that they didn't rush in right away due to protocol, but it is for other words pathetic that it took as long as it did.
It is without a doubt messed up that police were right outside the propped open library door listening to kids be killed.
Part of me thinks that law enforcement never thought a school shooting the caliber of Columbine could ever happen.
Sadly it usually always takes something negative to happen for things to change for the better, and history shows it's always better to prepare for the worst, yet hope for the best.

I would assume that not all of them were cowards, but they had to follow protocol for risk of losing their jobs, or putting other police in danger if they were to rush in and ended up being wounded and needed rescue.
I'd hope for the sake of humanity, that some of them did want to go right into the school, but didn't for reasons I stated above.

the shotgun

Also, don't think it was protocol, think it was bombs. They were listening to them say the library is going to explode and knew they had the capabilities of bombs with motion activation. They never tried to negotiate like it was a hostage situation, and they could hear the phone call that said this wasn't one. The fire truck by the west entrance was not just for cover while retrieving Rachel and Richard but supposedly was to breach the west entrance in case a bomb went off as they entered, the fire truck could take the damage, but it got stuck in the mud. Sheriff Stone said he didn't want to lose men. I don't think he meant from teenagers with shotguns.

slippy123 wrote:

Rebbie556 wrote:

The most mind blowing part about Columbine is that,
It took police / swat almost 3 hours after the shooting, to actually enter the school.
I'm sure it's been talked about  this , but does anyone else find this as the most crazy fact about Columbine? This was 1999.... Not 1899.. These werent military men being attacked... They were 14-18 year old TEENAGERS.
The most insane thing to me is that not one singular human being decided to be a hero and challenge 2 skinny 17-18 year old kids with $600 worth of weaponry. Look, i'm not ignorant to the fact that protocol was different... No policeman was required to storm in there and take out the gunmen. Still, i'm surprised some adult didnt just run in with a 12 gauge shotgun (probably used for hunting) and challenge E&D.
I know protocol has been changed since, and police are now trained to storm an active shooter ASAP. It still keeps me up at night. If Columbine happened in 2019, E&D would have basically took about 3-4 lives before they were charged by policemen.
i guess the point of my post is to ask you guys if you feel similar? Policemen were listening to kids be murdered 1 by 1, they knew it wasn't 10 dudes killing people, they could hear the gunshots. This was 20 years ago, not 200. I'm still in shock that nobody could / would do anything to help those poor kids in the library.

It's not necessarily mind blowing to me that they didn't rush in right away due to protocol, but it is for other words pathetic that it took as long as it did.
It is without a doubt messed up that police were right outside the propped open library door listening to kids be killed.
Part of me thinks that law enforcement never thought a school shooting the caliber of Columbine could ever happen.
Sadly it usually always takes something negative to happen for things to change for the better, and history shows it's always better to prepare for the worst, yet hope for the best.

I would assume that not all of them were cowards, but they had to follow protocol for risk of losing their jobs, or putting other police in danger if they were to rush in and ended up being wounded and needed rescue.
I'd hope for the sake of humanity, that some of them did want to go right into the school, but didn't for reasons I stated above.

Good point Slippy. It is a darn shame that something bad has to happen to incite change for the better. I agree that it is very possible the police never thought a shooting like that could happen, especially in the area it did.

Rebbie556 wrote:

The most mind blowing part about Columbine is that,
It took police / swat almost 3 hours after the shooting, to actually enter the school.
I'm sure it's been talked about  this , but does anyone else find this as the most crazy fact about Columbine? This was 1999.... Not 1899.. These werent military men being attacked... They were 14-18 year old TEENAGERS.
The most insane thing to me is that not one singular human being decided to be a hero and challenge 2 skinny 17-18 year old kids with $600 worth of weaponry. Look, i'm not ignorant to the fact that protocol was different... No policeman was required to storm in there and take out the gunmen. Still, i'm surprised some adult didnt just run in with a 12 gauge shotgun (probably used for hunting) and challenge E&D.
I know protocol has been changed since, and police are now trained to storm an active shooter ASAP. It still keeps me up at night. If Columbine happened in 2019, E&D would have basically took about 3-4 lives before they were charged by policemen.
i guess the point of my post is to ask you guys if you feel similar? Policemen were listening to kids be murdered 1 by 1, they knew it wasn't 10 dudes killing people, they could hear the gunshots. This was 20 years ago, not 200. I'm still in shock that nobody could / would do anything to help those poor kids in the library.

First and foremost they didn't know it was two skinny teenagers until after the fact. All the info they had was from the hysteric kids running out of the school screaming about men with automatic rifles and grenades. There were definitely  some things that could have handled better on that day by police and swat, but let's not be dicks to guys who had to deal with active shooters while also trying to keep the media and parents away from the school. The entire place was a circus that day. There were several reports of shooters on the roof of the school. The first estimated death toll was upwards of 25. They didn't know if there were hostages being held. They had literally nothing to go on.

IIRC they were worried about bombs. They thought the boys had placed bombs wired to motion sensors for some reason. None of them wanted to throw their lives away by running in and being blown up.

Also, Dylan's Tec-9 looked automatic because of its large clip which made them even more reluctant to run in.

Though I get the criticism. "That's their job, they just sat outside and listened to the whole thing." That's true too.

This goes into my "perfect storm" view on the shooting and the events leading up to it.

1. It was 1999, not many events like this had happened so there was no routine that the cops were used to, especially in a small quiet town like littleton.

2. The cops had lack of info, like said above, most of the info was coming from the kids running out of the building in terror, the cops probably got told numerous false claims of what was really going on inside. They even thought the air conditioner tech on the roof was a sniper and part of the shooting. All the "trench coat mafia" claims probably made things worse as well, there was probably thoughts of more than 2 shooters after they found out it was dylan and eric.

3. A lot of cops were concerned about the safety of kids running out of the building, and I can imagine the whole scene to be frantic and unorganized.

4. Bombs. I think they found out bombs were planted around the school and maybe thought there was going to be a big explosion or something.

But I do think they did take way too long to enter the building. I mean D&E walked around the school aimlessly for a LONG time. It really is strange that no one wanted to try and be a "Hero" that day but maybe some of the cops did stand up and said they would go in, but got shut down by their command?

There is still too much info missing from that day to judge both sides.

Just my thoughts/opinions

Not the first time it happened....I've read it took 45 minutes for police to arrive on the scene at the Ecole Polytechnique in 1989. I hope that's not misinformation...

(Note: I forgot to mention in the "films Columbine obsessives might like" threads that you should probably all go watch "Polytechnique," the 2009 film about Marc Lepine's massacre, shot in black and white and directed by Denis Villeneuve of "Blade Runner 2049" fame.)

"I mean D&E walked around the school aimlessly for a LONG time" maybe they could surprise them from behind since they were busy with walking i mean they were only 2 &Swat team I don't know how many swats were there. let's say 10 would go inside . They had weapons too they had their vests . E&D didn't . Let's say 2 on D &2 on E & Handcuffed. Other 2 will search them . Other 4 would search the school for survivors.
I mean I could imagine that E&D would shit themselves. If they would meet Swat team aiming at them till they drop the weapons .Remember the January incident ?they were silent only "your honour" or "yes sir" .

Rebbie556 wrote:

"I mean  I could imagine  that E&D would shit themselves.  If they would meet Swat team aiming at them till they drop the weapons .Remember the January incident ?they were  silent only "your honour" or "yes sir" .

Eric and Dylan were determined to die on that day, so had they turned a corner and found themselves facing a swat team then they would have fired at them so the swat team would be forced to kill them. I think the major reason they were wandering around so long and not killing anymore is that they were hoping they would run into the swat team.

Most mind blowing? That it was easily preventable. That Eric and Dylan were most likely telling their friends what they were planning on doing, that a couple of their friends failed polygraphs when asked if they knew what they were planning (Nate Dykeman failed two polygraphs and hid at his dads house out of state in the aftermath, Chris Morris was asked to make and store napalm by Eric, etc). That Brooks and his parents went to the police to complain about Eric and his threatening website, that was never followed up on. Had they did, they would have found their diaries and planning in their houses. That they killed a couple of people who would have accepted them, who would have helped them through their troubles, namely Rachel, Lauren and Cassie.

Juicy Jazzy wrote:

Most mind blowing? That it was easily preventable. That Eric and Dylan were most likely telling their friends what they were planning on doing, that a couple of their friends failed polygraphs when asked if they knew what they were planning (Nate Dykeman failed two polygraphs and hid at his dads house out of state in the aftermath, Chris Morris was asked to make and store napalm by Eric, etc). That Brooks and his parents went to the police to complain about Eric and his threatening website, that was never followed up on. Had they did, they would have found their diaries and planning in their houses. That they killed a couple of people who would have accepted them, who would have helped them through their troubles, namely Rachel, Lauren and Cassie.

Polygraphs are not very reliable. Besides, no one actually were alarmed that they liked guns. They would go and shoot in the mountains, they would make their bombs for fun and that's not your average teenager, sure, but a few teenagers are like that. My classmates also made bombs and liked burning various things but they never ever harmed anyone.

I don't think Columbine was easily preventable. People didn't know much about school shootings back then. They always were a bit out of place, acting all edgy and stuff. You don't really think that weird boy with a trench coat will kill you because not everyone who acts like them actually commit crimes. I think people were uncomfortable around them but didn't know what to do.

Btw, didn't Brooks family eventually drop all of complaints? I don't remember. But they were in good terms some time after that.

Also, why would Rachel, Lauren and Cassie would have helped them? How? By introducing God? No, they did not like the concept of God. They felt like outcasts because of people who worship God and talk about how great he is, how he can heal your soul. They didn't believe all that. They did not trust people who said such things. You know what, even Brooks could have been more helpful - they didn't despite him in the end. They wanted to be with people like them - and people at school were different, they hated that.


Nikolas Cruz could have been prevented but it still happened. It's not that easy to prevent such things from happening. If they are not shooting people just yet, they are not actually committing crimes. You can't actually look trough every suspicious person just in case someone is going to kill someone. I wonder how many school shootings have been prevented since Columbine. Probably quite a lot but we don't know about them.

sympathyforEandD wrote:

IIRC they were worried about bombs. They thought the boys had placed bombs wired to motion sensors for some reason. None of them wanted to throw their lives away by running in and being blown up.

Also, Dylan's Tec-9 looked automatic because of its large clip which made them even more reluctant to run in.

Though I get the criticism. "That's their job, they just sat outside and listened to the whole thing." That's true too.

I'd be curious what you recall this from if it's not my own rambling posts here.

The 'some reason' according to the CNN CD, is that the diversion bomb (likely, the second one) included an attempt at motion activation, and naturally this was relayed to the school.

cakeman wrote:

sympathyforEandD wrote:

IIRC they were worried about bombs. They thought the boys had placed bombs wired to motion sensors for some reason. None of them wanted to throw their lives away by running in and being blown up.

Also, Dylan's Tec-9 looked automatic because of its large clip which made them even more reluctant to run in.

Though I get the criticism. "That's their job, they just sat outside and listened to the whole thing." That's true too.

I'd be curious what you recall this from if it's not my own rambling posts here.

The 'some reason' according to the CNN CD, is that the diversion bomb (likely, the second one) included an attempt at motion activation, and naturally this was relayed to the school.

There are a couple news videos from days after the attack floating around YouTube where bomb experts state that some of the bombs they found around the school were some of the most sophisticated they had ever seen

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

sympathyforEandD wrote:

IIRC they were worried about bombs. They thought the boys had placed bombs wired to motion sensors for some reason. None of them wanted to throw their lives away by running in and being blown up.

Also, Dylan's Tec-9 looked automatic because of its large clip which made them even more reluctant to run in.

Though I get the criticism. "That's their job, they just sat outside and listened to the whole thing." That's true too.

I'd be curious what you recall this from if it's not my own rambling posts here.

The 'some reason' according to the CNN CD, is that the diversion bomb (likely, the second one) included an attempt at motion activation, and naturally this was relayed to the school.

There are a couple news videos from days after the attack floating around YouTube where bomb experts state that some of the bombs they found around the school were some of the most sophisticated they had ever seen

Yeah, I seem to recall that too, but days after the attack there was a lot of misinformation, and that still doesn't mention either the police not entering for fear of bombs or motion activation.  Also a bit peculiar how that was said given they didn't work and didn't seem to know what they were doing with circuitry. Perhaps yet another excuse.

cakeman wrote:

[...] Also a bit peculiar how that was said given they didn't work and didn't seem to know what they were doing with circuitry. Perhaps yet another excuse.

Sounds like it. "The most sophisticated they'd ever seen"? Please. Whoever said that was just covering for the cops who sat outside listening. You would think they were dealing with Fatman from Metal Gear Solid 2.

The set up of the school made things more difficult as well. There were too many inconsistencies surrounding what was going on. You can just listen to the kids who actually were there. So many different accounts. Men on roof, bombs in the school, multiple shooters etc..

sympathyforEandD wrote:

cakeman wrote:

[...] Also a bit peculiar how that was said given they didn't work and didn't seem to know what they were doing with circuitry. Perhaps yet another excuse.

Sounds like it. "The most sophisticated they'd ever seen"? Please. Whoever said that was just covering for the cops who sat outside listening. You would think they were dealing with Fatman from Metal Gear Solid 2.

I'm pretty sure this was from a third party explosives expert who was flown in. Just because they didn't detonate doesn't mean they were not sophisticated. Sure E and D were idiots who completely botched the assembly but they were still very sophisticated designs and had anyone who knew what they were doing assembled them, then the results would have been devastating.

HanShotFirst wrote:

sympathyforEandD wrote:

cakeman wrote:

[...] Also a bit peculiar how that was said given they didn't work and didn't seem to know what they were doing with circuitry. Perhaps yet another excuse.

Sounds like it. "The most sophisticated they'd ever seen"? Please. Whoever said that was just covering for the cops who sat outside listening. You would think they were dealing with Fatman from Metal Gear Solid 2.

I'm pretty sure this was from a third party explosives expert who was flown in. Just because they didn't detonate doesn't mean they were not sophisticated. Sure E and D were idiots who completely botched the assembly but they were still very sophisticated designs and had anyone who knew what they were doing assembled them, then the results would have been devastating.

A third party seems to me to make it less likely they had never seen anything so sophisticated. And maybe, but I have to wonder, and wonder more where you get the confidence when we don't know the design.

For example, Stone said Dylan's car bomb was a proper car bomb, set to detonate the gas tank. Is that plausible, when they didn't even rig the gas in the car together? Then again, supposedly Dylan's car bomb required 8 pipe bombs (Eric's 1).

I get the confidence when a dude not connected with the jefferson county PD says the bombs were sophisticated and his job is to look at devices rigged to explode. Take something at face value, not everything has to be a little conspiracy cover up

blynas wrote:

Juicy Jazzy wrote:

Most mind blowing? That it was easily preventable. That Eric and Dylan were most likely telling their friends what they were planning on doing, that a couple of their friends failed polygraphs when asked if they knew what they were planning (Nate Dykeman failed two polygraphs and hid at his dads house out of state in the aftermath, Chris Morris was asked to make and store napalm by Eric, etc). That Brooks and his parents went to the police to complain about Eric and his threatening website, that was never followed up on. Had they did, they would have found their diaries and planning in their houses. That they killed a couple of people who would have accepted them, who would have helped them through their troubles, namely Rachel, Lauren and Cassie.

Polygraphs are not very reliable. Besides, no one actually were alarmed that they liked guns. They would go and shoot in the mountains, they would make their bombs for fun and that's not your average teenager, sure, but a few teenagers are like that. My classmates also made bombs and liked burning various things but they never ever harmed anyone.

I don't think Columbine was easily preventable. People didn't know much about school shootings back then. They always were a bit out of place, acting all edgy and stuff. You don't really think that weird boy with a trench coat will kill you because not everyone who acts like them actually commit crimes. I think people were uncomfortable around them but didn't know what to do.  

Btw, didn't Brooks family eventually drop all of complaints? I don't remember. But they were in good terms some time after that.

Also, why would Rachel, Lauren and Cassie would have helped them? How? By introducing God? No, they did not like the concept of God. They felt like outcasts because of people who worship God and talk about how great he is, how he can heal your soul. They didn't believe all that. They did not trust people who said such things. You know what, even Brooks could have been more helpful - they didn't despite him in the end. They wanted to be with people like them - and people at school were different, they hated that.


Nikolas Cruz could have been prevented but it still happened. It's not that easy to prevent such things from happening. If they are not shooting people just yet, they are not actually committing crimes. You can't actually look trough every suspicious person just in case someone is going to kill someone. I wonder how many school shootings have been prevented since Columbine. Probably quite a lot but we don't know about them.

Exactly, I can't imagine what people thought about homosexuality in that part of Colorado. They probably would've been dead before columbine. Am I saying they were probably a bunch of ignorant hicks? Yes I am.

Juicy Jazzy wrote:

Most mind blowing? That it was easily preventable. That Eric and Dylan were most likely telling their friends what they were planning on doing, that a couple of their friends failed polygraphs when asked if they knew what they were planning (Nate Dykeman failed two polygraphs and hid at his dads house out of state in the aftermath, Chris Morris was asked to make and store napalm by Eric, etc). That Brooks and his parents went to the police to complain about Eric and his threatening website, that was never followed up on. Had they did, they would have found their diaries and planning in their houses. That they killed a couple of people who would have accepted them, who would have helped them through their troubles, namely Rachel, Lauren and Cassie.

Well it actually was a very big deal. As a freshmen in high school things were really different at that time. There had been a few minor shootings before then, but school districts and police departments nationwide certainly were not prepared for a shooting on the scale of Columbine.

Also they still had friends inside the school, that witnesses saw inside the school, so obviously they DIDN’T tell their friends what was happening. If they did- which I believe wasn’t the case- it was 1 or 2.

true_crime wrote:

Juicy Jazzy wrote:

Most mind blowing? That it was easily preventable. That Eric and Dylan were most likely telling their friends what they were planning on doing, that a couple of their friends failed polygraphs when asked if they knew what they were planning (Nate Dykeman failed two polygraphs and hid at his dads house out of state in the aftermath, Chris Morris was asked to make and store napalm by Eric, etc). That Brooks and his parents went to the police to complain about Eric and his threatening website, that was never followed up on. Had they did, they would have found their diaries and planning in their houses. That they killed a couple of people who would have accepted them, who would have helped them through their troubles, namely Rachel, Lauren and Cassie.

Well it actually was a very big deal. As a freshmen in high school things were really different at that time. There had been a few minor shootings before then, but school districts and police departments nationwide certainly were not prepared for a shooting on the scale of Columbine.

Also they still had friends inside the school, that witnesses saw inside the school, so obviously they DIDN’T tell their friends what was happening. If they did- which I believe wasn’t the case- it was 1 or 2.

While I believe they didn't care whether their friends lived or died since they were going to die as well, I think they did take measures to prevent it. For one, I doubt seniors would choose A lunch, and if they did I imagine they left campus for it.

HanShotFirst wrote:

I get the confidence when a dude not connected with the jefferson county PD says the bombs were sophisticated and his job is to look at devices rigged to explode. Take something at face value, not everything has to be a little conspiracy cover up

Not everything is insufferable smugness in direct proportion to naivete either.

[quote="cakeman"]

Juicy Jazzy wrote:

Most mind blowing? That it was easily preventable. That Eric and Dylan were most likely telling their friends what they were planning on doing, that a couple of their friends failed polygraphs when asked if they knew what they were planning (Nate Dykeman failed two polygraphs and hid at his dads house out of state in the aftermath, Chris Morris was asked to make and store napalm by Eric, etc). That Brooks and his parents went to the police to complain about Eric and his threatening website, that was never followed up on. Had they did, they would have found their diaries and planning in their houses. That they killed a couple of people who would have accepted them, who would have helped them through their troubles, namely Rachel, Lauren and Cassie.


Well it actually was a very big deal. As a freshmen in high school things were really different at that time. There had been a few minor shootings before then, but school districts and police departments nationwide certainly were not prepared for a shooting on the scale of Columbine.

Also they still had friends inside the school, that witnesses saw inside the school, so obviously they DIDN’T tell their friends what was happening. If they did- which I believe wasn’t the case- it was 1 or 2.
While I believe they didn't care whether their friends lived or died since they were going to die as well, I think they did take measures to prevent it. For one, I doubt seniors would choose A lunch, and if they did I imagine they left campus for it.

The media sensation the few days after that- based on scant information- was that they selected that time because of the maximum amount of students at that time.

We know that they did actually perform a lot of research before the shooting.