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 Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus

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PostSubject: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeSat Jul 13, 2019 4:51 pm

I bought the book and found some interesting info
Book: BULLET RIDDELED
AUTHOR: GRANT WHITUS

Deceased students in library : We started coming across many bodies…kids…all shot multiple times. Some shot in the face and left unrecognizable. One girl had taken a shotgun blast to the chest point blank; it was sick.

Deceased shooters: Keith was over sixty feet away, and he was my gunner; he knew his role to be directly behind me as I moved with the shield and turned corners. If the shooters had not been dead, my pistol would probably not have been any match for the firepower the shooters possessed. Moreover, there could have been more than two shooters…they could have been hiding, waiting. Keith had been trained. He knew what he was supposed to be doing. He knew leaving me left me exposed. I could come to only one reasonable conclusion: Keith had no intention of being in a firefight. It was an inexcusable breach of duty. I radioed Barry, “I have two shooters here.” told me it was probably them. The boys fit the description. Finally, all of the breaching, clearing, and there they were. Dead. I wanted so badly to be the one to kill those two. I know it would not have saved anybody already dead—that was done. But it all seemed so unfair to take their own lives, to not be held accountable for any of this shit. Somehow, it felt like they’d gotten away with it. That’s not bloodlust, just the desire to get justice by ending the threat. I had seen what they’d done, and I wanted to make them pay. I wanted to be the one to kill them and was angry…disgusted…outraged.

Dave Sanders: By then we had our own sniper relaying us information from the roof of a private home on the south side of the building, a sniper with his scoped rifle could see through the windows of the building and spy inside. He reported back to us that on the window of the science room he saw a sign that read, “1 Bleeding to Death.” We learned later that a student named Deidra Kucera had written that. We broke the glass on the window of the door of the science lab and found thirty students huddled in there. We immediately started evacuating them, and in the corner was the one mentioned on the sign, the one bleeding to death. It was a teacher. He was laying on the floor in the corner. He had been shot twice in the back, and one of the shots had come out his mouth. Two students were holding shirts against his wounds, their shirts soaked in blood. The students were doing the best they could, but with each passing second life assistance; he was dying. The two students caring for their teacher were told to evacuate, and they did not want to leave him, but after some prodding, they reluctantly left. Keith knelt next to the teacher and began holding the bandages in place while I maintained cover, and we waited for medical to arrive. Initially, medical teams refused to enter the building while there was an active shooter and a direct threat of bombs. However, by then we had demonstrated that we could safely evacuate dozens of students at a time, so I was reasonably sure medical teams would now answer a call for help. They responded that they were sending personnel when I called for it. The students were all gone now from the science lab. Keith held the bandages on Sanders’ wounds. The teacher told us his name was Dave Sanders. “I’m really hurt,” he said.

Harris and Klebold:I clutched my shield wanting to find these shooters and put two bullets in each of the sick bastards. By now, we were all feeling pretty stressed. 

Whitus, Grant M., and Thom Vines. Bullet Riddled: the First S.W.A.T. Officer inside Columbine ... and Beyond. Waldorf Publishing, 2016.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeSat Jul 13, 2019 10:43 pm

If anyone wants to read the book it is included in the Columbine Master Archive --> Columbine Books

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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeSat Jul 13, 2019 11:42 pm

Out of all the victims, Dave Sanders hurts the most. They could have saved him. 100% But they waited. If medical was there even an hour earlier, Dave would be here today. Even if his would have been fatal. At least they would have tried. Other part of me wonders if those students could have made a make shift gurney that would have helped too. *sigh* His poor family too. I heard the dispatch calls his family had to call at least 15 times to try to get an answer.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeTue Jul 16, 2019 7:08 pm

Who's the girl who had been shot point blank in the chest? Lauren?
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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeTue Jul 16, 2019 8:16 pm

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:
Who's the girl who had been shot point blank in the chest?  Lauren?
Yes, Its lauren. The other female shot in the chest was Rachel but she was outside
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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeTue Jul 16, 2019 9:09 pm

Miasmom1028 wrote:
Out of all the victims, Dave Sanders hurts the most. They could have saved him. 100% But they waited. If medical was there even an hour earlier, Dave would be here today. Even if his would have been fatal. At least they would have tried. Other part of me wonders if those students could have made a make shift gurney that would have helped too. *sigh* His poor family too. I heard the dispatch calls his family had to call at least 15 times to try to get an answer.

I have to agree. There was really no reason for Dave to die. I feel like that's on the first responders' hands. I know this was one of the first school shooting on this scale and that protocols weren't in place yet, but Dave bled out. Something could have been done.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeWed Jul 24, 2019 5:22 pm

hvernon wrote:
Miasmom1028 wrote:
Out of all the victims, Dave Sanders hurts the most. They could have saved him. 100% But they waited. If medical was there even an hour earlier, Dave would be here today. Even if his would have been fatal. At least they would have tried. Other part of me wonders if those students could have made a make shift gurney that would have helped too. *sigh* His poor family too. I heard the dispatch calls his family had to call at least 15 times to try to get an answer.

I have to agree. There was really no reason for Dave to die. I feel like that's on the first responders' hands. I know this was one of the first school shooting on this scale and that protocols weren't in place yet, but Dave bled out. Something could have been done.

In the master archive there is the lawsuit from the Sanders family to JeffCo. Upon reading it all, it makes me even more mad. This is why:

"By no later than approximately 12:15 p.m., Harris and Klebold, known to the Command Defendants to be the only shooters in the school, committed suicide in the Library. C/O ¶¶ 5-6. The Command Defendants learned of the suicides no later than 12:30 p.m., C/O ¶¶ 6, 64, as their deaths were visible to police sharpshooters posted onnearby rooftops using high-powered binoculars and telescopic rifles. Those officers were in direct communication with the Command Defendants by telephone and/or portable radio.

Despite this information, and in contradiction to the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Department Manual, the Command Defendants, initially and for the rest of the afternoon,characterized the situation as a “hostage” situation rather than a “high risk” situation. C/O¶¶ 11-12, 44-45, 52, 57. As a result of this erroneous characterization, the equipment,resources, and personnel available to the Command Defendants were not deployed until hours after the attack began.In the meantime, by no later than 12:30 p.m., at least two of Mr. Sander’s Science Room 3 companions informed the police via 911 calls, relayed to the Command Defendants, of the seriousness of Mr. Sanders’ condition as well as his precise location. Id. at ¶¶ 69-70. To remove any possibility of confusion as to Mr. Sanders’ location, a fellow teacher placed a large white sign in the exterior window, on which was written in large capital letters the following message: “1 BLEEDING TO DEATH.” C/O ¶ 72. Throughout the afternoon, another teacher in Science Room 3 remained on the phone with the 911 operators delivering updates, relayed to the Command Defendants, on Dave Sanders’ worsening medical condition. Id. at ¶ 70. In response to the initial and later 911 calls from Science Room 3, beginning around 12:00 noon and continuing for more than three hours, based on the Command Defendants orders, the 911 operators: 1)informed the callers that help was “on the way“ and would arrive “in about ten minutes,” or words to that effect; 2) continued to provide such assurances; and 3) ordered all Science Room 3 occupants not to leave the room under any circumstances to seek aid or rescue for Mr. Sanders. Id. at ¶¶ 77-78. As a direct result of these assurances of imminent aid, the students and teachers in Science Room 3 initially chose to forego private efforts to rescue or obtain aid for Mr.Sanders. Id. at ¶ 79. As hours passed with no sign of rescue or forthcoming aid, Mr.Sanders’ companions no longer believed the assurances of the Command Defendants. Thus, they informed the Command Defendants of their intent to break the exterior windows to get help for Mr. Sanders themselves. Id. at ¶ 108. The Command Defendants
squelched this plan by threatening the Science Room 3 occupants with the prospect that breaking the windows would draw the attackers to their location, even though the Command Defendants had known since approximately 12:30 p.m. that Harris and Klebold had taken their own lives.

Some time after that, the Command Defendants directed the Science Room 3 occupants to tie a red handkerchief to the exterior door handle in the hallway for the express purpose of marking and calling attention to the room, purportedly to flag the room for the SWAT teams. Id. at ¶ 110. Recognizing the inconsistency of this order, and, unlike the Command Defendants, unaware that their assailants no longer posed any danger, the Science Room 3 occupants expressed concern to each other that the red handkerchief would draw the shooters to their location."

So the snipers KNEW...KNEW that E&D were dead in the library. They also knew they were the only shooters. Yet for some reason JeffCo thought it would be a great idea to take their sweet ass time knowing where the injured parties were. Then when they got to the room, they decided to tell medical that it was still unsafe to come in because of boobie traps. Even though they already determined a safe path and saw students run out of nearly every exit in that school. Stupid stupid stupid.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeThu Jul 25, 2019 8:44 pm

Miasmom1028 wrote:
hvernon wrote:
Miasmom1028 wrote:
Out of all the victims, Dave Sanders hurts the most. They could have saved him. 100% But they waited. If medical was there even an hour earlier, Dave would be here today. Even if his would have been fatal. At least they would have tried. Other part of me wonders if those students could have made a make shift gurney that would have helped too. *sigh* His poor family too. I heard the dispatch calls his family had to call at least 15 times to try to get an answer.

I have to agree. There was really no reason for Dave to die. I feel like that's on the first responders' hands. I know this was one of the first school shooting on this scale and that protocols weren't in place yet, but Dave bled out. Something could have been done.

In the master archive there is the lawsuit from the Sanders family to JeffCo. Upon reading it all, it makes me even more mad. This is why:

"By no later than approximately 12:15 p.m., Harris and Klebold, known to the Command Defendants to be the only shooters in the school, committed suicide in the Library.  C/O ¶¶ 5-6.  The Command Defendants learned of the suicides no later than 12:30 p.m., C/O ¶¶ 6, 64, as their deaths were visible to police sharpshooters posted onnearby rooftops using high-powered binoculars and telescopic rifles.  Those officers were in direct communication with the Command Defendants by telephone and/or portable radio.

Despite this information, and in contradiction to the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Department Manual,  the Command Defendants, initially and for the rest of the afternoon,characterized the situation as a “hostage” situation rather than a “high risk” situation.  C/O¶¶ 11-12, 44-45, 52, 57.  As a result of this erroneous characterization, the equipment,resources, and personnel available to the Command Defendants were not deployed until hours after the attack began.In the meantime, by no later than 12:30 p.m., at least two of Mr. Sander’s Science Room 3 companions informed the police via 911 calls, relayed to the Command Defendants, of the seriousness of Mr. Sanders’ condition as well as his precise location. Id. at ¶¶ 69-70.  To remove any possibility of confusion as to Mr. Sanders’ location, a fellow teacher placed a large white sign in the exterior window, on which was written in large capital letters the following message: “1 BLEEDING TO DEATH.”  C/O ¶ 72.   Throughout the afternoon, another teacher in Science Room 3 remained on the phone with the 911 operators delivering updates, relayed to the Command Defendants, on Dave Sanders’ worsening medical condition.  Id. at ¶ 70.  In response to the initial and later 911 calls from Science Room 3, beginning around 12:00 noon and continuing for more than three hours, based on the Command Defendants orders, the 911 operators: 1)informed the callers that help was “on the way“ and would arrive “in about ten minutes,” or words to that effect; 2) continued to provide such assurances; and 3) ordered all Science Room 3 occupants not to leave the room under any circumstances to seek aid or rescue for Mr. Sanders.  Id. at ¶¶ 77-78.   As a direct result of these assurances of imminent aid, the students and teachers in Science Room 3 initially chose to forego private efforts to rescue or obtain aid for Mr.Sanders.  Id. at ¶ 79.  As hours passed with no sign of rescue or forthcoming aid, Mr.Sanders’ companions no longer believed the assurances of the Command Defendants. Thus, they informed the Command Defendants of their intent to break the exterior windows to get help for Mr. Sanders themselves.  Id. at ¶ 108.  The Command Defendants
squelched this plan by threatening the Science Room 3 occupants with the prospect that breaking the windows would draw the attackers to their location, even though the Command Defendants had known since approximately 12:30 p.m. that Harris and Klebold had taken their own lives.

Some time after that, the Command Defendants directed the Science Room 3 occupants to tie a red handkerchief to the exterior door handle in the hallway for the express purpose of marking and calling attention to the room, purportedly to flag the room for the SWAT teams.  Id. at ¶ 110.   Recognizing the inconsistency of this order, and, unlike the Command Defendants, unaware that their assailants no longer posed any danger, the Science Room 3 occupants expressed concern to each other that the red handkerchief would draw the shooters to their location."

So the snipers KNEW...KNEW that E&D were dead in the library. They also knew they were the only shooters. Yet for some reason JeffCo thought it would be a great idea to take their sweet ass time knowing where the injured parties were. Then when they got to the room, they decided to tell medical that it was still unsafe to come in because of boobie traps. Even though they already determined a safe path and saw students run out of nearly every exit in that school. Stupid stupid stupid.
The officers who were their should've been charged/fired for neglect

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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeFri Jul 26, 2019 1:09 pm

Miasmom1028 wrote:

So the snipers KNEW...KNEW that E&D were dead in the library. They also knew they were the only shooters. Yet for some reason JeffCo thought it would be a great idea to take their sweet ass time knowing where the injured parties were. Then when they got to the room, they decided to tell medical that it was still unsafe to come in because of boobie traps. Even though they already determined a safe path and saw students run out of nearly every exit in that school. Stupid stupid stupid.

They also knew there were bombs, that cops were a target, etc. You "set up a perimeter" to contain damage from say a bomb, you try to negotiate in a hostage situation. It seems to me "hostage" is either or both code for bombs when they don't want to give that information to copycats, or something like they mean the police or students are hostages due to the bombs.  I can't imagine what else they were scared of, can you? I can't buy the idea that it was hostage protocol rather than bomb protocol.

Also fwiw they do claim SWAT entered around the time they committed suicide, but at the opposite end of the school.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeSat Jul 27, 2019 9:54 am

Swat did come in around the time they committed suicide. That isn’t what I am talking about. The snipers saw E&D dead in the library around 12:30pm. At this point in time the only bombs they knew of was the pipe bombs. This is based off the several dispatch channels that is out there. Not once they mention the propane bombs. They didn’t even know about those until much later. At this point around 12:30pm the threat was eliminated.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeSat Jul 27, 2019 1:00 pm

Miasmom1028 wrote:
Swat did come in around the time they committed suicide. That isn’t what I am talking about. The snipers saw E&D dead in the library around 12:30pm. At this point in time the only bombs they knew of was the pipe bombs. This is based off the several dispatch channels that is out there. Not once they mention the propane bombs. They didn’t even know about those until much later. At this point around 12:30pm the threat was eliminated.
They didn't discover the cafeteria bombs until two days later, that's true, but it seems to me obvious they feared bombs before then; and when they find them they get out of there. I ask again as I don't feel I got an answer; what else would they be scared of? What else did they mean by booby traps?

I don't really think what type of bomb they suspected matters. Further, they knew about the diversions. According to the JeffCo/CNN CD, the diversion devices having motion detection capabilities was relayed to the school once they were discovered, and those included propane bombs. They also had the library phone call to hear them yelling that the library was going to explode. They also had the library witnesses to tell them this once they get out of there. They also got their journals at some point that day. It's been said the fire truck they used for cover to get Rachel and Richard was also to breech the west entrance doors in case a bomb went off, but got stuck in the mud (and pretty sure that was over a pipe bomb; pipe bombs are scary too). Hell, while not technically from a bomb, they got to see the cafeteria light on fire.

They would have known it was a killing spree just from the people shot outside, not to mention the phone call or library witnesses. As I understand, a bomb is something you "set up a perimeter" for; while for hostages you negotiate. See this for example, at 40:50:

The above is former FBI/ATF agents talking about the Brian Wells case, wherein a man had two pipe bombs strapped to him, and police watched it go off and him die as a result rather than risk injury themselves. I think the same was going on with Columbine. Sheriff Stone said he did not want to lose men, and, as you point out, there weren't even shooters any more for a good chunk of the time. In fact I think the only reason to explain why they were shooting people in a library that they said was going to explode and kill everyone is so cops rush in and die too.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeWed Jul 31, 2019 4:41 pm

Lisa Kreutz: Two dead (Lauren Townsend and Kelly Fleming) while one, in the middle, still breathed, clinging to life. As I stepped over each of them, the wounded girl reached up to me in desperation, seeking someone, anyone, to help her. I reluctantly responded, “I can’t stop,” which I know seems cold and callous, but we hadn’t found the shooters yet, and they had to be put down fast to end this maddening tirade.

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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeWed Jul 31, 2019 9:55 pm

Kerea2244 wrote:
Lisa Kreutz: Two dead (Lauren Townsend and Kelly Fleming) while one, in the middle, still breathed, clinging to life. As I stepped over each of them, the wounded girl reached up to me in desperation, seeking someone, anyone, to help her. I reluctantly responded, “I can’t stop,” which I know seems cold and callous, but we hadn’t found the shooters yet, and they had to be put down fast to end this maddening tirade.

Lisa must have felt so hopeless after he responded with that. Imagine not knowing what was going on and trying to ask for help but getting denied. It must have been scary. I understand why they had to tell Lisa that. But all the hope she felt when LE walked in must have went away immediately.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeThu Aug 01, 2019 10:51 am

cakeman wrote:
Miasmom1028 wrote:
Swat did come in around the time they committed suicide. That isn’t what I am talking about. The snipers saw E&D dead in the library around 12:30pm. At this point in time the only bombs they knew of was the pipe bombs. This is based off the several dispatch channels that is out there. Not once they mention the propane bombs. They didn’t even know about those until much later. At this point around 12:30pm the threat was eliminated.
They didn't discover the cafeteria bombs until two days later, that's true, but it seems to me obvious they feared bombs before then; and when they find them they get out of there. I ask again as I don't feel I got an answer; what else would they be scared of? What else did they mean by booby traps?

I don't really think what type of bomb they suspected matters. Further, they knew about the diversions. According to the JeffCo/CNN CD, the diversion devices having motion detection capabilities was relayed to the school once they were discovered, and those included propane bombs. They also had the library phone call to hear them yelling that the library was going to explode. They also had the library witnesses to tell them this once they get out of there. They also got their journals at some point that day. It's been said the fire truck they used for cover to get Rachel and Richard was also to breech the west entrance doors in case a bomb went off, but got stuck in the mud (and pretty sure that was over a pipe bomb; pipe bombs are scary too). Hell, while not technically from a bomb, they got to see the cafeteria light on fire.

They would have known it was a killing spree just from the people shot outside, not to mention the phone call or library witnesses. As I understand, a bomb is something you "set up a perimeter" for; while for hostages you negotiate. See this for example, at 40:50:

The above is former FBI/ATF agents talking about the Brian Wells case, wherein a man had two pipe bombs strapped to him, and police watched it go off and him die as a result rather than risk injury themselves. I think the same was going on with Columbine. Sheriff Stone said he did not want to lose men, and, as you point out, there weren't even shooters any more for a good chunk of the time. In fact I think the only reason to explain why they were shooting people in a library that they said was going to explode and kill everyone is so cops rush in and die too.

I am curious to see that the diversionary bombs had motion detection capabilities. My research thus far hasn't indicated that. I am curious to see the report on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeThu Aug 01, 2019 12:41 pm

Miasmom1028 wrote:
cakeman wrote:
Miasmom1028 wrote:
Swat did come in around the time they committed suicide. That isn’t what I am talking about. The snipers saw E&D dead in the library around 12:30pm. At this point in time the only bombs they knew of was the pipe bombs. This is based off the several dispatch channels that is out there. Not once they mention the propane bombs. They didn’t even know about those until much later. At this point around 12:30pm the threat was eliminated.
They didn't discover the cafeteria bombs until two days later, that's true, but it seems to me obvious they feared bombs before then; and when they find them they get out of there. I ask again as I don't feel I got an answer; what else would they be scared of? What else did they mean by booby traps?

I don't really think what type of bomb they suspected matters. Further, they knew about the diversions. According to the JeffCo/CNN CD, the diversion devices having motion detection capabilities was relayed to the school once they were discovered, and those included propane bombs. They also had the library phone call to hear them yelling that the library was going to explode. They also had the library witnesses to tell them this once they get out of there. They also got their journals at some point that day. It's been said the fire truck they used for cover to get Rachel and Richard was also to breech the west entrance doors in case a bomb went off, but got stuck in the mud (and pretty sure that was over a pipe bomb; pipe bombs are scary too). Hell, while not technically from a bomb, they got to see the cafeteria light on fire.

They would have known it was a killing spree just from the people shot outside, not to mention the phone call or library witnesses. As I understand, a bomb is something you "set up a perimeter" for; while for hostages you negotiate. See this for example, at 40:50:

The above is former FBI/ATF agents talking about the Brian Wells case, wherein a man had two pipe bombs strapped to him, and police watched it go off and him die as a result rather than risk injury themselves. I think the same was going on with Columbine. Sheriff Stone said he did not want to lose men, and, as you point out, there weren't even shooters any more for a good chunk of the time. In fact I think the only reason to explain why they were shooting people in a library that they said was going to explode and kill everyone is so cops rush in and die too.

I am curious to see that the diversionary bombs had motion detection capabilities. My research thus far hasn't indicated that. I am curious to see the report on it.

It's not something mentioned in the average account, but there are several of those. As above I got it from the JeffCo/CNN CD.
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"The examination of the diversionary devices by bomb technicians provided immediate critical information about the sophistication of the devices and the possibility of motion activators attached to the bombs.  That information was relayed to the command post, the SWAT teams and the bomb technicians responding to the scene at the high school."

Now, they couldn't have meant both diversions or the first one set to go off; they wouldn't have banked on somebody walking by at precisely the right time. They must mean the first was set to go off at 11:15 (though 11:14 is often given, they may have written that down as a guideline, but multiple sources say they had to set it at 5 minute intervals, on the numbers) and the second had motion detection, to blow up in the face of the responders. That makes sense as a diversion. They don't only want to waste time for the responders, they want there to be fewer responders.

Now apply similar logic to the cafeteria, that you wouldn't have two bombs go off at the same time, but have two bombs for the complexity of two different times. You will reconcile so many contradictions. They said the library was going to explode while in the library because they expected the second bomb to go off at 11:35, not for absolutely no reason as on the usual account. They shoot Corey last at 11:35 for that reason, not no reason or some bs about having remorse at exactly that time. Eric tells Bree they will all die when the library explodes, and Dylan tells John to run out of the library (because everybody was going to die, they could've just not shot him if bombs weren't an issue. While Savage doesn't say it (told not to?), 7 other witnesses say they said explicitly that the library exploding is why they told Savage to flee), yet once 11:35 passes, Dylan tells Evan he's going to live, and they go down to try and make the bomb explode.

Then there is no crazy plan B story about shooting from the parking lot or moving on to plan B and the stairs in a single minute after a year of planning/fantasizing once "the bombs" fail. Nope, as above the first bomb couldn't even be set for 11:17. It was set for 11:20, hence they begin shooting at 11:19. Plan A was going smoothly at that time.  Dylan said the massacre would be "the most nerve racking fifteen minutes" of his life. 11:20 to 11:35 is fifteen minutes.  My avatar is a picture of the clock from the second bomb; the one they tried to make explode on the CCTV. Notice it's set to the 35th minute.  Note also, similarly as they start shooting at 11:19, they enter the library at 11:29.

Also, in my opinion, Dylan checking on the bombs by looking in the cafeteria from outside makes no sense on the usual account. If that's when he learned the first bomb didn't work, once the cafeteria came into view, it makes sense.  If they were already shooting because they knew the bombs had failed due to the time, no reason to look.  In fact being shielded from the bombs and glass, along with their victims being able to run up the cafeteria stairs and not just into the parking lot, seem to me crucial reasons for waiting for the bombs up on the stairs, as all witnesses relay, and not in the parking lot.

Shooting Patti, Brian, Rachel, and Richard, i. e. those victims blocking the west entrance, is the first priority - for when they have to enter it when their victims turn around (which is exactly what they did, and the shooters don't miss a beat when that happens). The next priority is Daniel R and Lance and Sean on the stairs, before Dylan descends them presumably to fire at anyone fleeing into the parking lot, while Eric stays up presumably to cover his back from police. Note only Eric shot at police that day and he said "natural selection" referred to playing DOOM IRL, i.e. a firefight, like he would have with police. Dylan planning to use his TEC-9 on those fleeing could explain why he only took 3 shots with it outside, while he didn't hesitate to use the shotgun on Lance.

If we accept the above, and it seems to me inescapable, there is this curiosity: Why shoot ANYONE in the library? Everybody was gonna die in the library anyway. Arguably a waste of precious ammo if say they were still going to get in a firefight with cops. I can only think of one reason. Make the cops rush in, so they die as well as the students in the library and the perpetrators.  This may also explain why they die in the library, as they expected to die there a half hour earlier. I think it quite possible cops understood this, and that would explain their staying outside and making a perimeter a hundred times better than a phony hostage situation, in my opinion. Regardless, they knew about motion detection and bombs, they could hear them on the phone in the library and had library witnesses; and they had shootouts and at some point the journals to know they wanted to kill cops. I doubt very much they would have had the school to themselves, or Dave would have died, if it wasn't for the bombs. Though I think it's probably true they weren't sure where they all were, hence they eventually enter the cafeteria (would not have done so if they knew bombs were there, they get out as soon as they do, 'forming a perimeter' part 2) and fear booby trapped corpses in the library, and seem skittish to go anywhere, even with dead shooters.  

I'm very open to some other explanation, and wouldn't be here if I wasn't, but I'd like to see it at least try to explain the same facts, rather than just say one is thinking too deeply about this. Further, lies in an official story to deter copycats is not unheard of, and Columbine might have the most notorious string of copycats of all-time. I would be surprised if investigators didn't think of deterring copycats when such a crime happens as part of their job description.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus    Bullet Riddeled: Grant Whitus  Icon_minitimeWed Aug 14, 2019 7:36 pm

Kerea2244 wrote:
Lisa Kreutz: Two dead (Lauren Townsend and Kelly Fleming) while one, in the middle, still breathed, clinging to life. As I stepped over each of them, the wounded girl reached up to me in desperation, seeking someone, anyone, to help her. I reluctantly responded, “I can’t stop,” which I know seems cold and callous, but we hadn’t found the shooters yet, and they had to be put down fast to end this maddening tirade.

I understand why he had to say it...but someone should have helped the poor girl.

I mean, it’s a horrible spot to be in. On one point, you NEED to either find the shooters or confirm that they’re dead...but, on the other point, there needs to be someone helping these survivors before, God forbid, they’re not survivors anymore.

It had to be a horrible spot to be in once they actually got inside the school that day.

No wonder so many of them had such horrible after effects.

(And I couldn’t live with myself if I was one of those who let Dave Sanders die. I’ll never not fully believe he could’ve survived if he’d have gotten the right kind of help in time.)
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