Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum
A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes. Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
Posts : 88 Contribution Points : 58219 Forum Reputation : 435 Join date : 2019-11-03 Age : 24
Subject: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:21 am
Before anyone says it, yes, I know they had guns. But I still think it would have been fairly easy to stop them.
Dylan was tall, but he was very skinny at the time of the massacre. Eric was short and also pretty skinny, plus he broke his nose shortly after entering the library. IIRC witnesses said he appeared to be dizzy, disorientated, and couldn’t even walk in a straight line.
Most of the guys in the room would have easily been able to stop them. I even think Bree Pasquale might have been able to grab Eric’s gun from him when he was squatting in front of her and had it resting on his legs. That was seconds after he broke his nose so I definitely think she would have had a fair chance of getting it.
Didn’t one of them also put one of their guns on the table for a few seconds? That also would have been a good chance for someone to grab it.
And yes, I know there were two shooters, but I think if someone stopped one of them, it would encourage another person(s) to stop the other one.
Humans have three reactions to danger, “Fight-Flight-Freeze.” Out of all 56 people in that library, you would think at least one of them would fight, but they all froze. Yes, I know Daniel pushed a chair at Eric, but I mean actually getting up and trying to take their guns or tackling them. Shootings have been stopped that way before.
I don’t blame anyone for not trying to stop them, but I’m kind of surprised no one did. Especially when we have witnesses talking about how Eric was dizzy and disoriented.
Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6447 Contribution Points : 198247 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:16 am
Because they were scared kids who had no idea what was going on. Why didn’t the adults try to stop them instead of hiding in the computer room and under the desk?
There were two different shootings recently where someone tried to fight back and they ended up dying.
_________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
nochcherna likes this post
Szabo
Posts : 164 Contribution Points : 72593 Forum Reputation : 35 Join date : 2017-04-07 Location : Cornwall, UK.
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:27 pm
The students under the tables had poor vision, and at most could only hear where E&D roughly were. A lot of them probably weren't even sure there were only two shooters.
Jennifer Doyle even admits when they appeared at her table she initially thought they were cops and were being rescued.
noodlesoldier
Posts : 43 Contribution Points : 47771 Forum Reputation : 50 Join date : 2019-10-26 Age : 29 Location : Phobos
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:57 pm
Yeah I agree with previous posts. Number one, they were just kids, scared shitless. I don't even know how I'd act myself in that kind of situation, but I'm 100% sure I'd be frozen to the ground in horror. And you can't really have a good overview on where they are and where they were aiming or moving around, also there were two of them. So in a case of jumping them, you'd have to be two persons. You're not really trained to that kind of mental thinking when in fear as a teenager. ESPECIALLY not in fear. As for today though, as a grown person and if we put fear aside for a sec, I would've definitely jumped one of them. Beat them unconscious. Sock them in the head with a chair. Anything. At any given moment I wouldn't hesitate. Would've been so nice to have them fucking arrested.
cakeman
Posts : 802 Contribution Points : 85472 Forum Reputation : 1491 Join date : 2018-07-27
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:23 pm
It does seem they could have been stopped a la Kip Kinkel if they were simply rushed, and I trust I'm not alone in wondering what could have been done and why nothing was.
They were told to get under the tables. Wouldn't surprise me if that was for say police to shoot at the perps. In other words, that by staying under the tables they felt they were helping somehow. There were two shooters so if you rushed one the other would shoot you, etc. Fair point by Szabo that they were already hiding when they came in.
As for what to do in that situation, best move I can imagine is 1999 CRT computer monitor to the head. I wonder if fear of something like that is why Dylan walked backwards for a time when going in between the computers.
Unsure how many say Eric was disoriented. Bree who was right after the nose injury and Evan who is all over the place are the only ones which come to mind, but that could be a failure of memory.
Icarius
Posts : 98 Contribution Points : 54653 Forum Reputation : 28 Join date : 2019-02-01
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:20 pm
Because they were a bunch of pussy...
Fighting is always the good answer...
3 people put gun in my face since the start of my life. I fight every one of them...
Onyx Top Contributor
Posts : 316 Contribution Points : 53877 Forum Reputation : 378 Join date : 2019-08-26 Location : Your Eye
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:29 am
I think fighting a shooter is quite an act of sacrifice, and not many people are willing to sacrifice their safety and do something so risky.
Last edited by Onyx on Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)
Nessaj85
Posts : 30 Contribution Points : 47650 Forum Reputation : 100 Join date : 2019-10-25 Age : 39
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:02 am
Wow. So you're putting blame on the victims because they didn't "fight back"? Have you ever been near the type of guns that were used that day, do you know how powerful a tech 9 is?
nochcherna dislikes this post
dontknow43
Posts : 5 Contribution Points : 69562 Forum Reputation : 0 Join date : 2017-03-31
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:32 am
Nessaj85 wrote:
Wow. So you're putting blame on the victims because they didn't "fight back"? Have you ever been near the type of guns that were used that day, do you know how powerful a tech 9 is?
Did you even read the original post?
nochcherna likes this post
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:29 am
Nessaj85 wrote:
Wow. So you're putting blame on the victims because they didn't "fight back"? Have you ever been near the type of guns that were used that day, do you know how powerful a tech 9 is?
Not defending him by any means, but to be fair, TEC-9s are called "jam-o-matics" for a reason.
QuestionMark Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 4348 Contribution Points : 125252 Forum Reputation : 3191 Join date : 2017-09-05
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:37 pm
Icarius wrote:
3 people put gun in my face since the start of my life. I fight every one of them...
The fact that you weren't shot to death says more about the people you allegedly fought than it does you.
_________________ "My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back." -Kip Kinkel
nochcherna likes this post
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:46 pm
N/A
Last edited by Duluth on Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6447 Contribution Points : 198247 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:47 pm
How many scared teenage kids would know that? They would look at that gun and say oh that’s a junk gun we’re definitely going to jump the 6 foot four kid who is screaming at us holding two guns and throwing pipe bombs....
_________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
00buckshot
Posts : 3 Contribution Points : 46500 Forum Reputation : 0 Join date : 2019-10-09
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:16 am
dontknow43 wrote:
Nessaj85 wrote:
Wow. So you're putting blame on the victims because they didn't "fight back"? Have you ever been near the type of guns that were used that day, do you know how powerful a tech 9 is?
Did you even read the original post?
I would be more worried about the two shotguns they had, the tec9 is just a 9mm pistol.
QuestionMark Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 4348 Contribution Points : 125252 Forum Reputation : 3191 Join date : 2017-09-05
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:16 pm
00buckshot wrote:
dontknow43 wrote:
Nessaj85 wrote:
Wow. So you're putting blame on the victims because they didn't "fight back"? Have you ever been near the type of guns that were used that day, do you know how powerful a tech 9 is?
Did you even read the original post?
I would be more worried about the two shotguns they had, the tec9 is just a 9mm pistol.
>just a 9mm pistol I mean 9mm can still kill someone if you shoot them with it so I'm not sure what your point is.
_________________ "My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back." -Kip Kinkel
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:35 pm
They were scared kids. That's the reason no one stopped them. The kids didn't know anything about the types of guns they had, how they could be overpowered, etc. It's easy to claim that any one of us would try to be the hero in a situation like this, but the truth is you don't really know how you would act until you are put into that situation.
jada887
Posts : 210 Contribution Points : 80403 Forum Reputation : 175 Join date : 2016-09-30 Age : 40 Location : Santa Monica, California
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:11 am
noodlesoldier wrote:
Anything. At any given moment I wouldn't hesitate. Would've been so nice to have them fucking arrested.
I apologize if this question is a little silly, but wasn't the library divided into two sections, and the boys only entered the one closest to the double doors? Or am I mistaking the library for the cafeteria? I can see the police diagrams in my mind but those mental images are blurry after so many years.
Nessaj85
Posts : 30 Contribution Points : 47650 Forum Reputation : 100 Join date : 2019-10-25 Age : 39
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:02 am
I think the library had classrooms connected to it
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:24 am
N/A
Last edited by Duluth on Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
sororityalpha Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 2939 Contribution Points : 129299 Forum Reputation : 1001 Join date : 2013-03-22
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:15 pm
Posts : 98 Contribution Points : 54653 Forum Reputation : 28 Join date : 2019-02-01
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:25 pm
Because staying on the floor doing absolutly nothing is a way better tactics...I prefers doing what right than what have the best chance of success. That a weak mentality to calculate your better chance of surviving....
If people would be willing to sacrifice, we would have less mass shooting. Their little life is so fucking important...u know... so important that they can not even fight for it...
Those people are already dead in my opinion...
Ps we will all die, in the end, anyway. Better to live like a man...
QuestionMark Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 4348 Contribution Points : 125252 Forum Reputation : 3191 Join date : 2017-09-05
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:16 pm
Icarius wrote:
If people would be willing to sacrifice, we would have less mass shooting. Their little life is so fucking important...u know... so important that they can not even fight for it...
Those people are already dead in my opinion...
Ps we will all die, in the end, anyway. Better to live like a man...
Funny, I think a lot of mass shooters would actually agree with you.
Also I'm still right. The fact that you supposedly fought off three different people who pointed a gun at you just means you're lucky. You could've easily been killed if any of those same people had just shot you without thinking.
_________________ "My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back." -Kip Kinkel
Nessaj85
Posts : 30 Contribution Points : 47650 Forum Reputation : 100 Join date : 2019-10-25 Age : 39
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:22 pm
Icarius wrote:
Because they were a bunch of pussy...
Fighting is always the good answer...
3 people put gun in my face since the start of my life. I fight every one of them...
You sound like a little pu**y I doubt you've seen a REAL gun let alone been threatened with one, cause if you had you wouldn't be asking why a bunch of kids didn't fight back. I've seen, held and shot REAL guns, I've seen a family member murdered by a gun, he thought he was safe because there was a metal security door between him and the person pointing the gun at him, he wasn't safe, the person shot him thru the door hitting him 5 times. Those kids murdered at columbine were scared KIDS who didn't know wtf was happening.but they were smarter than you they knew that there were TWO idiots with guns if they tried to lunge at or stop one of them the other shooter would kill them and it would accomplish nothing it wouldn't have stopped E&D probably would've caused more damage.
Primate Murder Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 1101 Contribution Points : 68958 Forum Reputation : 446 Join date : 2019-04-04 Location : Burgerland
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:51 pm
The kids need to pull off what the Muslims did when Baruch Goldstein shot up that mosque.
_________________ Currently dating Seryu Ubiquitous
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:31 pm
N/A
Last edited by Duluth on Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
true_crime
Posts : 285 Contribution Points : 63424 Forum Reputation : 296 Join date : 2019-01-12 Location : Mountains & Molehills
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:54 pm
Those kids were sitting ducks. The only other doors to connecting rooms (within the library) were close to the front where E & D walked in and were definitely in their sight.
_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] True crime enthusiast for over 15 years [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Primate Murder Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 1101 Contribution Points : 68958 Forum Reputation : 446 Join date : 2019-04-04 Location : Burgerland
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them? Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:36 pm
Duluth wrote:
Primate Murder wrote:
The kids need to pull off what the Muslims did when Baruch Goldstein shot up that mosque.
Most of the people in the Mosque were apparently males of military age. There was also around 800 people present, as morning prayer was underway.
I'd say that they probably had a better chance at disarming Goldstein than students would've had disarming Eric and Dylan.
_________________ Currently dating Seryu Ubiquitous
Sponsored content
Subject: Re: Why did no one in the library try to stop them?