Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting.

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Saw this floating around somewhere. Do any of you think it could be Adam? The shooting did start at 9:30...

Dylan and Eric's suicide photos are not allowed to be posted on this board. I have edited your photo and removed the suicide photo.

I've been watching this show a bit lately and thought this was a nice tribute.

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I found two other posts by smiggles, who appear interesting: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

In almost every news about Adams internet history, the start for his interest for Mass Shootings was places around 2009. However, in the "How did you find the forum"-Thread on SBB, Adam wrote that he found the board at the end of 2006, making him 14 years old at the time.

In another posts, Adam asks another User a question without quoting him and comments it with " I don't quote people when I post directly after them, because eye-contact upsets me."

This sounds so odd, that I now think if it might be possible that Adams writing style- who often appears humorous- was just him being honest about his completely messed up mindset. This post might be an example.

Lananas wrote:

LPorter101 wrote:

It's hard to call the news a shock. I've been expecting something like this for a long time.

As a former moderator, I can say unequivocally that if I ever had the slightest inkling that this kid was making specific threats and/or plans, I would have contacted law enforcement.

Earlier today I picked up a copy of the dead-tree edition of the New York Daily News. (I live in Miami, where there are lots of New York transplants.) Adam Lanza's face was plastered on the cover. Little did I know that the article inside referenced SBB by name.

Whenever there's a tragedy, a new one that's even worse pops up somehow. The aurora shooting happens in July? Sandy Hook happens a few months later. Columbine? A huge number of copycat shootings surface (with one being 8 days after in Alberta), and then there was Virginia Tech. I have a bad feeling that Columbine probably sent a message to these people that if you murder a bunch of people, you get to be famous.

I dont think they (most of them atleast) do it because they want to be famous.

Hale-Bopp wrote:

If Smiggles really was Adam, then I think the maybe most odd thing is, that he clearly expressed dislike for Eric Harris on some occasions. That is a least unusual, because Eric tends to be the Shooter who mostly was taken as a role model.

I also would be interested, if anyone her had contact with him. I joined around February 2012 and it seems, like his online activities decreased by that time.

He really was Smiggles that has been confirmed, What do you mean with he has taken Eric as role model?

I add a raport about Lanza's mental health for those whom haven't read that yet.
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Alright I'm a day late but.. Yesterday was the 2nd anniversary of Sandy Hook.. Time flies.

Lananas wrote:

LPorter101 wrote:

It's hard to call the news a shock. I've been expecting something like this for a long time.

As a former moderator, I can say unequivocally that if I ever had the slightest inkling that this kid was making specific threats and/or plans, I would have contacted law enforcement.

Earlier today I picked up a copy of the dead-tree edition of the New York Daily News. (I live in Miami, where there are lots of New York transplants.) Adam Lanza's face was plastered on the cover. Little did I know that the article inside referenced SBB by name.

Whenever there's a tragedy, a new one that's even worse pops up somehow. The aurora shooting happens in July? Sandy Hook happens a few months later. Columbine? A huge number of copycat shootings surface (with one being 8 days after in Alberta), and then there was Virginia Tech. I have a bad feeling that Columbine probably sent a message to these people that if you murder a bunch of people, you get to be famous.

Perhaps they "kick started a revolution" after all...

Conker64 wrote:

Lananas wrote:

LPorter101 wrote:

It's hard to call the news a shock. I've been expecting something like this for a long time.

As a former moderator, I can say unequivocally that if I ever had the slightest inkling that this kid was making specific threats and/or plans, I would have contacted law enforcement.

Earlier today I picked up a copy of the dead-tree edition of the New York Daily News. (I live in Miami, where there are lots of New York transplants.) Adam Lanza's face was plastered on the cover. Little did I know that the article inside referenced SBB by name.

Whenever there's a tragedy, a new one that's even worse pops up somehow. The aurora shooting happens in July? Sandy Hook happens a few months later. Columbine? A huge number of copycat shootings surface (with one being 8 days after in Alberta), and then there was Virginia Tech. I have a bad feeling that Columbine probably sent a message to these people that if you murder a bunch of people, you get to be famous.

Perhaps they "kick started a revolution" after all...

I think they did, Conker64. Maybe not as quickly or to as grand a scale as they had hoped/planned, but they did to some extent.

Well, I was not surprised to hear that there was a shooting made by someone who posted on the forums. I mean not Lanza specifically, just that the forums wereone of the few places online where soem of the columbine fanboys congegated (I do NOT mea to say taht everyone on the old forums was a fanboy, far from it. Only taht some were).

I have been largely an an inactive person at the forums when Lanza posted there (I was actiove on teh old forums, not the SBB format ones).

I was however surprised to learn that Lanza watched and liked my own school shooting movie and had commented upon it on the forums. That's not been a pleasant thing to learn for me.

I cry every time I think of that school shooting, but I can't stop looking into it... this must be how rubber-neckers feel.

If Adam didn't kill himself when he did, how many more could he have killed before he ran out of ammo or the cops raided the school and killed him?

Ziamber II wrote:

If Adam didn't kill himself when he did, how many more could he have killed before he ran out of ammo or the cops raided the school and killed him?

A better question would be what the death toll would be if those 9 children hadn't escaped from Soto's room. If they weren't able to escape, I have no doubt that Lanza would have killed them all, bringing the death toll to 36.

but could he have tried to kill all the kids in the school if he didn't hear the police coming in?

Ziamber II wrote:

but could he have tried to kill all the kids in the school if he didn't hear the police coming in?

yes, he encountered the police so he fled and short himself,

iirc his gun jammed aswell(but that might of been the glock, not the bushmaster)

-warrior wrote:

Ziamber II wrote:

but could he have tried to kill all the kids in the school if he didn't hear the police coming in?

yes, he encountered the police so he fled and short himself,

iirc his gun jammed aswell(but that might of been the glock, not the bushmaster)

He had 4 guns, a bushmaster, an SIG Saur pistol, glock pistol and a shotgun he left in the car. If one gun jammed he could have used the others.

Ziamber II wrote:

If Adam didn't kill himself when he did, how many more could he have killed before he ran out of ammo or the cops raided the school and killed him?

This is a complicated question so even though you probably wanted a number, I'm going to overanalyze it for you.

First of all, Adam probably couldn't have killed any more people at all if the cops raided the school and killed him because it was reported that he only killed himself when he glimpsed the police in the hallway, causing him to retreat into Room 10 and shoot himself in the head. He already waited as long as he possibly could and killed as many as he was able to by the time the police did arrive.

If we pretend that he was able to shoot every bullet he had without interference because the police didn't show up, it's very hard to give a single number for many reasons. The main reasons are because Adam was ejecting and discarding some of his rounds instead of shooting them long before the police showed up and also because he had used up most of the ammunition for the rifle but had plenty of ammo for the pistols left and the difference in ammo and the weapons (the level of deadliness would have been different and we also don't know how proficient he was with pistols compared to the rifle) would probably make a difference in how deadly these shots were, compared to the rifle which caused all of the deaths but his own.

I will give you the information on what he shot and what he had left.

Quote :

When he entered the school, Lanza had 300 rounds of .223/5.56mm ammunition with 10 magazines, 116 rounds of 9mm ammunition with 6 magazines and 90 rounds of 10mm ammunition with 6 magazines.

Lanza fired 8 5.56mm rounds from his rifle outside of the school. These did not kill anybody because they were used to shoot out the glass windows.

He fired 16 5.56mm rounds in the lobby and one in the north hallway. Two people were killed and two were wounded by these shots.

In Room 8, Lanza fired 80 5.56 rounds. Two adults and fifteen children were killed with these shots.

In Room 10, Lanza fired 49 5.56 rounds. Two adults and five children were killed with these shots.

This means he fired a total of around 146 bullets from his rifle to kill 26 people, meaning an average of 5-6 bullets were shot for every person killed.

(However, we also know that he shot about 9 rounds into the windows facing the parking lot, probably not shooting any of the victims with those, so it was probably closer to 5 bullets for every person killed but let's ignore that.)

Quote :

Officers found a total of 312 live rounds in the room where Adam was found dead, with 253 of those on Lanza’s body.

In his pockets, Lanza was still carrying 116 9mm rounds, 75 10mm rounds and 61 5.56mm rounds.

In addition to this, they found 46 additional 5.56mm rounds, including 15 in the rifle, one on the floor and 30 in a magazine under Lanza’s body. They also found 13 live 10mm rounds, of which 9 were inside the Glock pistol and 4 were on the floor. Two empty magazines were also found near the rifle.

Keep in mind that if you add up the expended rounds, and subtract it from the total he brought with him, they will not equal what was left on his actual body because as I said before, he was ejecting live rounds when the rifle presumably jammed and discarding magazines without shooting every round from them. So, out of 300 rifle rounds, he shot 154 in total, had 106 left and discarded about 40. If my math is correct (and it's very likely wrong, but let's pretend), then this means that on average, he discarded about 1 round for every 4 he shot.

If he had about 105 5.56 rounds left, and we say that he would have continued to discard them at the same rate, then he would have discarded about 20 and shot about 85 more rounds. So, if we assume that all the circumstances remained the same and we also say that he killed one person with every five to six bullets, he could have killed between 14 and 17 more people with the remaining rifle rounds alone. If circumstances remained the same but he did not have to discard any more bullets at all we can say that he could have killed between 17 and 21 more people with the rifle rounds he had left.

Now, for the sake of being thorough in answering your question, if Adam had managed to shoot all 300 rifle rounds because he had gone back around and collected all of the ejected live rounds and partially filled magazines he discarded in order to kill as many people as possible (because the police were not responding at all for some reason), he could have killed between 24 and 29 more people, assuming that the circumstances remained exactly the same.

(Yet we know that the circumstances would probably NOT have remained the same at all because most rooms had already managed to lock down even without police interference, meaning that he would have had a hard time even finding victims who were accessible. So, really, all of this math is probably irrelevant in terms of what would have actually happened.)

Aside from that, he had 116 9mm rounds and about 90 more 10mm rounds but we can't even begin to estimate how many deaths those could have caused. We do know that it seems he jammed the 10mm Glock on the first shot and was then having trouble getting the rounds to seat properly, which explains the ejected live rounds found in that room and we also know that the gun was also jammed and inoperable after his second shot (the suicide shot), so that gun may have been completely useless or he could have eventually gotten it to work right. It's hard to say but this might suggest that Adam was bad with pistols (he was probably too weak to hold it steady causing it to jam when fired, according to speculation by the person who runs the Sandy Hook Analysis blog) or that it was improperly maintained (which I believe is also speculation by the same person based on his inadequate gun cleaning kit).

And then there's the shotgun. If Adam had time to shoot all of the rifle and pistol rounds and the police still hadn't shown up and nobody had bothered to lock their doors, then he could have gone back outside and retrieved his shotgun. He would have had another 21 shotgun shells to kill people with.

I guess the short answer to the first part of your question of how many more people he could have killed if he was able to shoot victims until he ran out of ammo, the answer would be: a lot.

And the answer to the second part of your question would be: zero.

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Sandy Hook anniversary is tomorrow.

Damn, 5 years.

I still remember that day and all those reports and media coverage. Even here in Europe it got a lot of attention, definitely more than Las Vegas and Sutherland Springs shootings.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Sandy Hook anniversary is tomorrow.

Yes. It's a bit depressing.

I figured that they would cover it more extensively this year since it's the fifth anniversary.

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It bothers me that they repeatedly refer to 26 victims. This isn't even a case of 13 vs. 15 like it was with Columbine. Nancy is not responsible for what Adam did. She was not an accomplice. She did not kill anyone. She didn't know and if she did, she would still be alive today.

I am the first one to point out her many mistakes in dealing with Adam but it seems terribly unfair that Nancy has been treated like a perpetrator rather than a victim. I guess it's not up to me to say what is right since I didn't live in that community but I feel that she deserves to be acknowledged when they remember the victims.

An article on the subject.
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sscc wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Sandy Hook anniversary is tomorrow.

Yes. It's a bit depressing.

I figured that they would cover it more extensively this year since it's the fifth anniversary.

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It bothers me that they repeatedly refer to 26 victims. This isn't even a case of 13 vs. 15 like it was with Columbine. Nancy is not responsible for what Adam did. She was not an accomplice. She did not kill anyone. She didn't know and if she did, she would still be alive today.

I am the first one to point out her many mistakes in dealing with Adam but it seems terribly unfair that Nancy has been treated like a perpetrator rather than a victim. I guess it's not up to me to say what is right since I didn't live in that community but I feel that she deserves to be acknowledged when they remember the victims.

An article on the subject.
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I am not as familiar with Sandy Hook as I am with Columbine. I had been researching Columbine for many, many years before I had my first child. I think being a mom with two small children is the main reason I could never get in depth with Sandy Hook.  It just hits way to close to home.

rabadon55 wrote:

Damn, 5 years.

Five years. And in that time we've had three shootings that've been worse than Sandy Hook in terms of a body count, and two other site members to have killed people since then.

Damn.

Hey [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I know about Randy, but who is the other member you're referring to?

Littlelo wrote:

Hey [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I know about Randy, but who is the other member you're referring to?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], aka William Atchison (aka Satanicdruggie/AlGore/FuckYou/Vance Stone). Check out the thread on the Aztec High school shooting.

QuestionMark wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Hey [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I know about Randy, but who is the other member you're referring to?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], aka William Atchison (aka Satanicdruggie/AlGore/FuckYou/Vance Stone). Check out the thread on the Aztec High school shooting.

Thanks. Holy shit I remember seeing this briefly in the news.

rabadon55 wrote:

Damn, 5 years.

I still remember that day and all those reports and media coverage. Even here in Europe it got a lot of attention, definitely more than Las Vegas and Sutherland Springs shootings.

I think the fact most of the victims were children was what created the media buzz.  When you hear "school shooting" you don't normally think of 6/7 year olds being gunned down.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

rabadon55 wrote:

Damn, 5 years.

I still remember that day and all those reports and media coverage. Even here in Europe it got a lot of attention, definitely more than Las Vegas and Sutherland Springs shootings.

I think the fact most of the victims were children was what created the media buzz.  When you hear "school shooting" you don't normally think of 6/7 year olds being gunned down.

This children sanctimony rubs me the wrong way. Would people have felt any better if the victims were teenagers or late preteens? I don't get what this is all about, are people whose age is single digits somehow more deserving of life than all these other school shootings or mass shootings in general?

Tuga wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

rabadon55 wrote:

Damn, 5 years.

I still remember that day and all those reports and media coverage. Even here in Europe it got a lot of attention, definitely more than Las Vegas and Sutherland Springs shootings.

I think the fact most of the victims were children was what created the media buzz.  When you hear "school shooting" you don't normally think of 6/7 year olds being gunned down.

This children sanctimony rubs me the wrong way. Would people have felt any better if the victims were teenagers or late preteens? I don't get what this is all about, are people whose age is single digits somehow more deserving of life than all these other school shootings or mass shootings in general?

I agree with what you are saying but I think that she is correct in saying that the age of the victims was related to the amount of attention the case received because it heightened the sense of tragedy for a lot of people. I suspect that Adam knew that it would happen when he made the choice to attack an elementary school. Rapists are reviled but the reaction to a pedophile rapist is even more extreme and sparks more outrage (and fear).

Generally, people have a stronger emotional reaction to crimes committed against children. I don't think it's a belief that children are more deserving of life or even a consideration of the potential they may have had if their lives were not cut short, I think it's imagining how helpless and trusting children are and it speaks to the instinct (and feeling of responsibility) in most people to protect children, even if they don't know them.

(At the same time, I think that if Adam had killed 27 adults or teens, the case would have received a lot of attention anyway because it would have been the first shooting approaching the level of Virginia Tech since 2007.)

sscc wrote:

Tuga wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

rabadon55 wrote:

Damn, 5 years.

I still remember that day and all those reports and media coverage. Even here in Europe it got a lot of attention, definitely more than Las Vegas and Sutherland Springs shootings.

I think the fact most of the victims were children was what created the media buzz.  When you hear "school shooting" you don't normally think of 6/7 year olds being gunned down.

This children sanctimony rubs me the wrong way. Would people have felt any better if the victims were teenagers or late preteens? I don't get what this is all about, are people whose age is single digits somehow more deserving of life than all these other school shootings or mass shootings in general?

I agree with what you are saying but I think that she is correct in saying that the age of the victims was related to the amount of attention the case received because it heightened the sense of tragedy for a lot of people. I suspect that Adam knew that it would happen when he made the choice to attack an elementary school. Rapists are reviled but the reaction to a pedophile rapist is even more extreme and sparks more outrage (and fear).

Generally, people have a stronger emotional reaction to crimes committed against children. I don't think it's a belief that children are more deserving of life or even a consideration of the potential they may have had if their lives were not cut short, I think it's imagining how helpless and trusting children are and it speaks to the instinct (and feeling of responsibility) in most people to protect children, even if they don't know them.

(At the same time, I think that if Adam had killed 27 adults or teens, the case would have received a lot of attention anyway because it would have been the first shooting approaching the level of Virginia Tech since 2007.)

Oh, all 3 of us absolutely agree on that. I'm not disputing it. It even has a name, ''the hierarchy of death''.

Tuga wrote:

This children sanctimony rubs me the wrong way. Would people have felt any better if the victims were teenagers or late preteens? I don't get what this is all about, are people whose age is single digits somehow more deserving of life than all these other school shootings or mass shootings in general?

I can heavily relate to this.
Even everyday things like suicide if someone under 18 does it it's a "tragedy" but no one seems to care the minute they are an adult.
I can never understand the emotional reaction people have with everything.

The way I see it every life is equal, every murder is equal.
I care just as much  for a 81 year olds murder as I do for a 1 year olds (assuming in both cases it was the same method of murder.)

In some ways I really do think Adam felt the same way.