Eric's Broken and Bloody Nose

I was just thinking the other day about Eric breaking his nose, probably from the recoil of the shotgun after the "peekaboo" taunt and point-blank murder of Cassie Bernall (correct me people, if I'm wrong, I don't read the docs too much anymore). Some library witnesses made it sound as if blood had been pouring out of Eric's nose, with one survivor stating that it looked like he had smeared blood all over his face, and/or had been drinking blood messily, as it was all about his mouth.
Obviously, as many have suggested, this broken nose may have shocked Eric back into reality, at least a little bit, and the pain of it may have stunned him out of his maniacal rampage, and into a more subdued state. In any case, I was wondering what thoughts people may have as to the impact of the bloody nose, did it perhaps cause Eric to not kill as many people as he might have, because of the pain and distraction of it, in which case, he may have killed more in the library and perhaps more students hiding in the bathroom and the other locked classrooms? Did the broken nose hasten Eric's decision to kill himself, would he and Dylan have fought the cops longer before resigning themselves to their fate.
The way I see it, the fact Eric was so stupidly careless with his gun (big surprise huh!), breaking his nose, may have actually reduced the death toll at Columbine and may have sped up the actions of that day including the suicides.

ThoughtBox wrote:

The way I see it, the fact Eric was so stupidly careless with his gun (big surprise huh!), breaking his nose, may have actually reduced the death toll at Columbine and may have sped up the actions of that day including the suicides.

No doubt this is the case. The boys were not built for endurance anyway. As soon as the adrenalin rush started to wane, they would have felt the full weight of their fatigue and weariness. I'm sure neither of them had been sleeping or eating well for quite some time. They were probably as limp as noodles near the end. Eric's broken nose definitely put the dampers on the library killing spree. As others have pointed out, Evan Todd, for example, would have been toast if Eric hadn't been distracted by his broken nose.

The symbolic aspect of Eric breaking his own nose and subsequently looking like he had been drinking blood is fascinating. particularly so in light of the fact that Eric broke his nose when he shot Cassie Bernall, who was, herself, a troubled teen who had plotted to kill her parents and been into devil worship, etc.

I think that the broken nose was one of the two incidents that connected Eric back to Eric, instead of keeping him on the level ground of the persona he had built up for himself. Bree Pasquale's statements are invaluable in this regard, because she's the one confronted with him straight after having broken his nose. It's from her that we get the impression that the recoil dizzied him, shook him up even, and that he has trouble focusing on what's going on. In a later stage, right before they leave the library, Dylan's exchange with Evan Todd speaks volumes to me.. he practically offers him up to Eric and Eric "doesn't appear to hear him" and is entirely focused on the idea of going down to the commons. It's a scene that speaks of Eric's disorientation ever so slightly, especially when reading it in the narrative reconstruction I translated from Krabbé's book, and one I feel makes his priorities a lot clearer as well. I think that it is the failed bombing, in the end, that speeds up the suicide. That was the last case of reality smashing back into the elaborate fantasy that was created, and I suspect that it shocked Eric back into himself completely. (I am really going on gut feeling for this one, though, so feel free to ignore.  ;) )

I agree. Evan Todd would most likely been killed if Eric didn't break his nose. But I don't think many others would have. Eric at this point still believed he could get the bombs in the cafeteria to explode. Those in the library would have died anyway if he was right.

gustopoet wrote:

ThoughtBox wrote:

The way I see it, the fact Eric was so stupidly careless with his gun (big surprise huh!), breaking his nose, may have actually reduced the death toll at Columbine and may have sped up the actions of that day including the suicides.

No doubt this is the case. The boys were not built for endurance anyway. As soon as the adrenalin rush started to wane, they would have felt the full weight of their fatigue and weariness. I'm sure neither of them had been sleeping or eating well for quite some time. They were probably as limp as noodles near the end. Eric's broken nose definitely put the dampers on the library killing spree. As others have pointed out, Evan Todd, for example, would have been toast if Eric hadn't been distracted by his broken nose.

The symbolic aspect of Eric breaking his own nose and subsequently looking like he had been drinking blood is fascinating. particularly so in light of the fact that Eric broke his nose when he shot Cassie Bernall, who was, herself, a troubled teen who had plotted to kill her parents and been into devil worship, etc.

I never thought about the sparing of Evan Todd, and I guess even John Savage, as partially related to the broken nose. It must have been quite a shock to Eric, and probably (though we don't know his full medical history), one of the most physically painful things to happen to him in his young life. Too bad there is no cafeteria footage of Eric directly facing the camera so we can see some of this blood evidence (at least I don't think there is any recording of that angle).
As you state about Cassie, she is perhaps the most interesting and troubled of the victims, and definitely not the "normal teenager" as so many of the murdered students were described.

Z_Splatter wrote:

I agree. Evan Todd would most likely been killed if Eric didn't break his nose. But I don't think many others would have. Eric at this point still believed he could get the bombs in the cafeteria to explode. Those in the library would have died anyway if he was right.

Perhaps you are right, Eric's perseveration on getting those poorly-rigged bombs to explode must have consumed his every thought during most of the massacre.

ThoughtBox wrote:

Perhaps you are right, Eric's perseveration on getting those poorly-rigged bombs to explode must have consumed his every thought during most of the massacre.

Yeah, the broken nose probably just made Eric seethe even more about the bombs. It was almost like the school was taking a last dig at him -- and winning -- because what he most wanted most was to blow the whole place up.

gustopoet wrote:

ThoughtBox wrote:

Perhaps you are right, Eric's perseveration on getting those poorly-rigged bombs to explode must have consumed his every thought during most of the massacre.

Yeah, the broken nose probably just made Eric seethe even more about the bombs. It was almost like the school was taking a last dig at him -- and winning -- because what he most wanted most was to blow the whole place up.

Yes, and ultimately, in a way, the school consumed both Eric and Dylan, devouring them in their self-destructiveness in the library.

ThoughtBox wrote:

Yes, and ultimately, in a way, the school consumed both Eric and Dylan, devouring them in their self-destructiveness in the library.  

True that. And it's still devouring people every day....

ThoughtBox wrote:

I never thought about the sparing of Evan Todd, and I guess even John Savage, as partially related to the broken nose.  It must have been quite a shock to Eric, and probably (though we don't know his full medical history), one of the most physically painful things to happen to him in his young life. Too bad there is no cafeteria footage of Eric directly facing the camera so we can see some of this blood evidence (at least I don't think there is any recording of that angle).
As you state about Cassie, she is perhaps the most interesting and troubled of the victims, and definitely not the "normal teenager" as so many of the murdered students were described.  

There's an interesting discussion here that mentions the nose injury and Evan Todd:
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I think the general consensus is that Eric definitely broke his nose from the gun recoil after shooting Cassie. I am aware this may sound like i am been overly picky and i'm likely in the minority with my opinion on this topic, but I've never been fully convinced Eric did actually break his nose.
There are a number of witnesses that report Eric's nose injury:

Evan Todd: (Pg 0161-0179) Todd reported that Eric Harris looked as though he had a “broken nose.” When asked to elaborate, Evan Todd stated it appeared as though Eric Harris’ nose was pushed off to the side slightly and he had a noticeable amount of blood smeared around his nose and mouth, down to the chin area. He also mentioned Harris was injured, appeared dizzy and was having to catch his balance. Evan Todd also mentioned Harris' nose was pushed off to the side slightly.

Bree Pasquale: Pg (519 - 536) Bree Pasquale notices blood flowing from both Erics' nostrils. She also believed the comment "I hit myself in the face" made by Eric was intended for Dylan.

Joshua Lapp - Pg (480 - 481) Lapp heard “who he believed to be Eric Harris state “Oh I hit myself." He recalled a gunman with blood on his face and around his mouth.

Austin Eubanks - Pg (27) Saw Eric with “what appeared to be quite a bit of blood around his mouth under his nose”

Steven Greenwood - Pg (354 - 359) “...He also stated Harris’ nose was bleeding” - “He stated at one point when he saw Harris, Harris had a bloody nose”

Heidi Johnson - Pg (437 - 446) ”...He shot himself in the nose. Ms. Johnson overheard him say to the other gunman “Oh man, I shot my nose” - “..She stated she then heard Harris mention he’d shot himself in the nose. She heard him laughing. She then heard Klebold ask him “Why’d you do that?” Johnson then saw Harris was bleeding from his nose

I find it interesting that Bree Pasquale spoke directly with Eric and only mentions blood flowing from Eric's nose and nothing about it been pushed off to the side or looking broken like Evan Todd did. The kickback from Eric's gun while fired in a crouching position certainly could have been enough to break his nose, but i just don't know if it did. I'm not disputing the theory Eric injured his nose after shooting Cassie, however i'm just not 100% convinced it is a fact that he broke it, yet a broken nose is often spoken about as if it is a fact. Eric's autopsy mentions an "injury to the external surface of the nose with extensive underlying fractures."
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Page 2-3. Taking into account the fatal head shot this is not very surprising. I would guess Eric would have sustained too much damage for anyone to determine whether or not he broke his nose prior to him firing his last shot.

It's difficult to say for sure how Eric truly felt about this incident, as you mention ThoughtBox it's likely he would have been shocked. He seems to acknowledge hitting himself in the face and informing Dylan, but i think this statement gives little away about how he actually felt about what had just happened. We'd have to look in more detail at what happened after he hits himself.
I'm not sure if i would say this was the most physically painful thing to happen to Eric in his life, I'm thinking of his Pectus Excavatum correction surgery here which i would imagine to be very painful. However, i wonder to what extent Eric was actually effected by physical pain at this point in the shooting and how much he cared about it.

Here is a slightly more enhanced shot of Eric in the cafeteria, it's not the best quality and i'm sure many users here have probably seen this before. But it does show Eric running past the camera.
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EDIT:
For a quick reference Diagram 56 is when Eric shot Cassie:
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After this student began to notice blood flowing from Eric's nose. The following then occurs in the library:

Diagram 57 - Harris taunts student

Diagram 58 - Klebold shoots Ireland

Diagram 59 - Klebold grabs Shoels

Diagram 60 - Harris shoots Shoels

Diagram 61 - Klebold shoots Kechter

Diagram 62 - Harris throws explosive device

Diagram 63 - Smoke from under table 16

Diagram 64 - Harris jumps on bookshelves

Diagram 65 - Harris shoots bookshelves

Diagram 66 - Klebold shoots out the glass in trophy case at the Library entrance

Diagram 67 - Klebold shoots Kintgen

Diagram 68 - Klebold shoots Schnurr and Kreutz

Diagram 69 - Klebold shoots Townsend

Diagram 70 - Harris enters east section of the library

Diagram 71 - Klebold / Harris speak to students under table #3

Diagram 72 - Klebold / Harris reload and taunt Schnurr

Diagram 73 - Harris shoots Nowlen and Tomlin

Diagram 74 - Klebold shoots Tomlin

Diagram 75 - Harris shoots Fleming, Townsend, Park an Kruetz

Diagram 76 - Harris looks out South Library windows

Diagram 77 - Klebold / Harris move to the center section

Diagram 78 - Harris retrieves ammunition

Diagram 79 - Klebold / Harris allow a student to leave the library

Diagram 80 - Harris shoots Mauser

Diagram 81 - Klebold / Harris shoot Depooter, Doyle and Eubanks

Diagram 82 - Klebold / Harris move toward computer tables

Diagram 83 - Harris throws explosive device

Diagram 84 - Klebold / Harris move behind front counter

Diagram 85 - Klebold taunts student

Diagram 86 - Klebold shoots into Break room behind counter

Diagram 87 - Klebold / Harris have conversation

Diagram 88 - Klebold / Harris leave the Library

in my dream erics nose was fully formed and worked well in coordination with his frontal lobe swaying in the wind

ThoughtBox wrote:

Z_Splatter wrote:

I agree. Evan Todd would most likely been killed if Eric didn't break his nose. But I don't think many others would have. Eric at this point still believed he could get the bombs in the cafeteria to explode. Those in the library would have died anyway if he was right.

Perhaps you are right, Eric's perseveration on getting those poorly-rigged bombs to explode must have consumed his every thought during most of the massacre.

Wasn't the original plan to bomb the school? And was the shooting just a backp plan?

819234 wrote:

ThoughtBox wrote:

Z_Splatter wrote:

I agree. Evan Todd would most likely been killed if Eric didn't break his nose. But I don't think many others would have. Eric at this point still believed he could get the bombs in the cafeteria to explode. Those in the library would have died anyway if he was right.

Perhaps you are right, Eric's perseveration on getting those poorly-rigged bombs to explode must have consumed his every thought during most of the massacre.

Wasn't the original plan to bomb the school?  And was the shooting just a backp plan?

The bombing of the school was the main plain.  They envisioned picking off fleeing students from the parking lot and then the bombs in E & D's cars were supposed to go off as the police and ambulances arrived on the scene, doing the 'icing on the cake' damage to the arriving help. E & D seemed to be sure that Plan A is how it would go down and they didn't anticipate any problems in their fantasy vision.  So, they didn't really have a 'backup plan'. When the cafeteria bombs failed to go off, they seemed to be too vested in NBK to back out, and so it ended up being a garden variety school shooting.

Anyone ever broken a nose?

I would imagine that the sensation changes as the minutes go by. Perhaps first numbness. Then pain? But how much?

Anyone?

Looking at queenfarooq's information coming from the diagrams, Cassie was shot in a fairly short amount of time after they entered the library. After Eric shot Cassie and may or may not have broken his nose, he goes on to shoot like 8 other people and rattle the bookshelves, etc.

Maybe he did break his nose. I have known people who have broken their noses without it being "shoved to the side" or visually deformed. I have also known people who have broken their noses, wiped off the blood and went about their day, which makes me think it may not be that painful in the grand scheme of things. Or maybe these people are just major badasses.

In so far as why they didn't kill more, this has been discussed at length elsewhere, but I think that the major contributing factors are 1) the bombs, of course, and attempting to get them to blow. And 2) the amount of police that had, by that point, arrived and the boys had no way of knowing when they would enter the building. But if he was in pain and dizzy from breaking his nose, that certainly could have contributed.

This is probably beating a dead horse but I this is something I've often thought about and I just found this thread

I completely agree with everything queenfarooq wrote. I've always wondered whether he actually did break his nose. Certainly the recoil from the gun could have done it but how would we know when his face was pretty much destroyed from the suicide?

Evan Todd is the only one I recall mentioning that Harris seemed out of it. Everyone else just mentioned that he was bleeding. He went up to Bree Pasquale right after he did it and was crouched in front of her and "balancing on the balls of his feet". I would imagine the disorientation/ dizziness from a broken nose would come immediately after the hit. I've never actually broken my nose but have had a couple good hits and that feeling was always instantaneous for me. I'm sure he was in pain but it doesn't sound, from Bree's description, that he was out of it.

And then look at the list queenfarooq provided of everything he did after he was hit in the nose. Doesn't sound like someone who was out of it to me. I feel like he let Todd go because he had turned his attention to the bombs and blowing up the school; shooting people got tired.

How come you can't see any blood around Eric's nose or on his white shirt in the cafeteria footage? That's always puzzled me. The black & white camera would pick that up, no?

It's really hard for me to see much of anything in that footage and he was wearing all the gear over his shirt which would make picking out blood that much harder.

Type in google images, "Eric Harris Cafeteria". There is quite a good still of him facing the camera at the bottom of the stairs. I'm just on my way to work, so if I can find it and upload a link here later, I will.

From the cafeteriapicture it looks like a small nosebleed, also Erics nose did look a bit crooked in a specific angle so for me it isn't impossible that Evan Todd misinterpreted the situation. I mean, why would nobody else mention it if it was noticably broken?

munchkinphone wrote:

From the cafeteriapicture it looks like a small nosebleed, also Erics nose did look a bit crooked in a specific angle so for me it isn't impossible that Evan Todd misinterpreted the situation. I mean, why would nobody else mention it if it was noticably broken?

Agreed. And he was face to face with Bree and we all know that her testimony is explicitly detailed, so if she didn't mention it being crooked, I'm inclined to think that wasn't accurate. She did say he seemed "distracted" but when Dylan called his attention to Isaiah at another table, he snapped right back.
As an aside, I don't do much digging into the current lives of victims and survivors of Columbine but I have always wondered what Bree has done with her life. For someone to be that acutely observant during a terrifying time like that, there are several fields (including law enforcement) where she could have excelled.

Guest wrote:

gustopoet wrote:

ThoughtBox wrote:

Perhaps you are right, Eric's perseveration on getting those poorly-rigged bombs to explode must have consumed his every thought during most of the massacre.

Yeah, the broken nose probably just made Eric seethe even more about the bombs. It was almost like the school was taking a last dig at him -- and winning -- because what he most wanted most was to blow the whole place up.

Yes, and ultimately, in a way, the school consumed both Eric and Dylan, devouring them in their self-destructiveness in the library.  

Well, that's indeed true, but I want to add that even though the bombs failed, they also wanted to leave a legacy. They succeeded, hell the whole Columbine history is also pure cult. When people remember 9-11, OJ Simpson, they also immediately know about this tragedy if you say "columbine".

TheBigLebowski wrote:

hell the whole Columbine history is also pure cult. When people remember 9-11, OJ Simpson, they also immediately know about this tragedy if you say "columbine".

I've met people who didn't know what Columbine was before.

QuestionMark wrote:

TheBigLebowski wrote:

hell the whole Columbine history is also pure cult. When people remember 9-11, OJ Simpson, they also immediately know about this tragedy if you say "columbine".

I've met people who didn't know what Columbine was before.

Ok, but I think that is a minority. Even here in The Netherlands if I ask people if it says something if I say Columbine and 90% says yes. Not if I ask younger people ofcourse.

TheBigLebowski wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

TheBigLebowski wrote:

hell the whole Columbine history is also pure cult. When people remember 9-11, OJ Simpson, they also immediately know about this tragedy if you say "columbine".

I've met people who didn't know what Columbine was before.

Ok, but I think that is a minority.

I hope so because the alternative is kind of depressing.