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 Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?

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ThePsychologyofPhobos



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PostSubject: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:47 pm

I find it somewhat perplexing, and perhaps someone can clarify or elaborate, but why would Eric have had the amount of Luvox in his system that he did upon his autopsy? (390 ng/ml) < Holy Cr@p ! Given his age, body weight, etc. thats a LOT. That may even be well over what he was prescribed towards the end. Would this mean that he was regularly taking his meds or even took more than his prescribed amount leading up to his death, despite "knowing" he was going to die? It seems, counter productive to regularly take or increase ones anti-depressants while plotting ones own murder-suicide. I know suddenly stopping such a strong medication, especially the strength he was taking, cold-turkey can result in withdrawal-like symptoms, like severe headaches, nausea, etc. but still, why continue taking them let alone increase the amount? Yes, perhaps he was being monitored by his parents or psychiatrist to take them (but given how he hid more important things from them I doubt it would be out of his ability to hide/dispose of/pretend to take his meds) but anyhow, If one was trying to appear 'God-like" or superior, I would think removing all evidence of any handicaps i.e. Depression Medication, would be important to him. He had such strong narcissistic tendencies, was set on being perceived as 'God-Like' or above-average, almost non-human, yet taking medication for depression, etc, all would have come across as a 'weakness, a very real, very human fault. I just find it odd, and a bit out-of-character, I would have thought he would have stopped taking his medication all-together. Any thoughts on this?
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sororityalpha
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:26 pm

TOXICOLOGY:

Blood Alcohol - Negative

Blood Drug Screen - Gas Chromatography/Mass Spectroscopy

Only drug detected is Fluvoxamine - 390 ng/ml (therapeutic levels 50-900 ng/ml)

Urine Drug Screen - Negative


So, Eric was about mid-range for therapeutic levels - not high at all.


It only take 12-24 hours for Luvox to be flushed out of your system, so Eric was still taking his medication before he died.

Quote :
The half-life of Luvox is considered the shortest of any SSRI at 12-13 hours – even shorter than Paxil. Therefore, the drug will be completely out of your system within 1 day.

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ThePsychologyofPhobos



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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:36 pm

For the time perhaps it was seen as being within range based on what the manufacturers of Luvox had listed, keep in mind 50-900 ng/ml is quite a wide range, also a number of studies since the 90s regarding benzodiazepines show 390 ng/ml as being almost "overkill" especially given his weight/frame and age. I believe from what I read his highest prescribed amount was supposed to be 200 ng/ml which would have been a more appropriate dosage. I can't help but wonder if his dosage was increased yet again leading up to the attack or if he began taking more as his anxiety began to kick in. **Also keep in mind how long Eric's body sat in the library before he was removed and an autopsy and subsequent drug test could be conducted, drug concentration can change after death due to postmortem redistribution / degradation.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:28 pm

with that dose on him , he had the ' love buzz ' , meaning enough to chill and at the same time being objective and serious during the nbk plan that day .

why do you think dylan was all loose and so on and so forth , meanwhile eric was like ' lets stick do the plan ' kind of mood .
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ThePsychologyofPhobos



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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:22 am

It would appear so, given that he had such a high concentration in his blood sample (which is usually much lower after postmortem redistribution, meaning the dosage was probably even higher prior to his death and even testing) a blood sample alone to measure postmortem benzodiazepine levels is not as accurate as other methods, infact much lower usually, than preferred methods such as bile, organ tissue, or femoral venous blood samples, (which more accurately measure benzodiazepine levels in the deceased) I am surprised the forensic pathologist collected but didn't run the bile sample for the toxicology report which would have most likely shown better results especially given how long the body sat out exposed. No drug testing was done via hair samples collected either which I find odd, and there's no mention of the stomach contents which could have helped show whether or not he ingested a large number of pills prior to the incident. I truly believe the pathologist rushed and overlooked a number of key issues given the nature of the crime and pressure from the community, family, media and law enforcement. I mean, given the cloudy urine, patchy sections of atelectasis in his lungs, the benign reactive lymphoid hyperplasia noted along with his toxicology report, his history of mental illness, there should have been a more in-depth autopsy conducted. Think about it, he died somewhere between 12-1pm on 4/20, but the autopsy was not conducted until 4/22 @ 2pm, rigor had already set into his lower extremities, the body had been moved, so taking postmortem redistribution into account, his labs still showed 390ng/ml of Luvox in a blood sample!? And he only weighed 135-140lbs. Un-frigging-believable.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:23 am

What do benzodiazepins have to do with anything? He wasn't taking them. Antidepressants are a  completely different thing. Am I missing something?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:44 am

I just want to clarify. As the doctor checked that Eric truly takes the drug in the required dosage (or even accepts it). He believed his word or they performed some tests? How does this work?

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Pennydreadful



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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:51 am

What do you mean? If the psychiatrist he was seeing checked that he was really taking his pills? I haven't heard of such a thing. It's usually up to you if you take them, i guess no one can make you unless you're commited in a psych ward.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:58 am

I just have the impression that Eric was against the treatment because he didn't want to abandon his convictions. Nevertheless, he regularly takes this drug. In my opinion all of his treatment was useless.

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ThePsychologyofPhobos



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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:03 am

I had read he'd taken other Rx drugs not belonging to him (benzodiazepines like Kolonapin/Xanax) mixing those indiscriminately with an SSRI like Luvox would have been trouble. (If not monitored carefully mixing benzodiazepine and SSRIs can be quite dangerous--Psych student here) Is this info about him also taking a benzo not correct? I know there's a lot of conflicting information out there so clarification would be great. I do still believe the dose of Luvox (the SSRI) found in his system 2 days postmortem is surprising, even if he had not combined meds, and the pathologist did state years later that the standard/basic tests he did wouldn't have shown all drugs in his system. Which for me is frustrating because had he been mixing Rx meds or taking higher doses it could shed some much needed light on mental healthcare in the US instead of just chalking individuals up as "crazy" and calling it a day.


Last edited by ThePsychologyofPhobos on Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:16 am; edited 2 times in total
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Pennydreadful



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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:10 am

I don't think you can treat the issues eric had only with ad's. So yeah, whether he took them or not i would agree it was obviously useless. Hm that's the first time i have ever heard anything about him taking xanax. But no, taking ad's with xanax isn't problematic at all, there are no contraindications. Xanax is taken for anxiety and only calms you a bit and ad's are obviously for depression. I know that because I was on ad's and xanax for a year and a half.
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Pennydreadful



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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:23 am

As for benzos not being found in his system, xanax has a half life of 12 hours and klonopin is a long acting benzo, so if he took either before the shooting they would have probably found it. Can't say what effect would his ad have taken at a much higher dose. Probably would't affect him in terms of making him psychotic or anything like that. He could get serotonin syndrome, which is life threatening. But that's only speculations, i honestly don't know. I'm more surprised that Dylan wasn't on any substances that day, like coke or something. It's baffling how someone could be laughing and having so much fun killing people completely sober. I guess he had a complete psychotic break, that's the only explanation i can think of.
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ThePsychologyofPhobos



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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:48 am

Yes, but his autopsy was not done until 4/22. That could have been long enough to hinder results especially since the body was exposed. Plus, the pathologist admits to not conducting a thorough drug screening, just a basic panel, that's just what I found odd, given the circumstances surrounding the case why not conduct a more detailed exam of stomach contents, run a toxicology on the bile sample, etc. his finding Luvox in his system alone after 2 days postmortem should have lead him to test organ tissue and bile to gather more accurate data and detailed results. Also, I say this because if Eric had any underlying conditions (an autoimmune disease for example) but this was overlooked by a rushed autopsy, so we could be missing additional connections like how his meds or any underlying disease could have effected him or played a role in his mental state. Thanks for the clarification about what he did/didn't take though Penny ❤️ That's very helpful.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:02 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If one was trying to appear 'God-like" or superior, I would think removing all evidence of any handicaps i.e. Depression Medication, would be important to him. He had such strong narcissistic tendencies, was set on being perceived as 'God-Like' or above-average, almost non-human, yet taking medication for depression, etc, all would have come across as a 'weakness, a very real, very human fault. I just find it odd, and a bit out-of-character, I would have thought he would have stopped taking his medication all-together. Any thoughts on this?
Or maybe he simply still felt like shit therefore he kept taking his meds.
+ He had been on medication for a long time. After awhile taking your pills becomes your routine like brushing your teeth.
As far as his "narcissistic tendencies" go, I wouldn't necessarily believe everything he wrote/said. Very often people who portray themselves as someone who is beyond others, deep inside are extremely self conscious and have a very low self esteem. They're ashamed of that and want to appear confident. I do believe that was the case with Eric.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:20 pm

In the United States the only doctor that runs regular urine tests to make sure you're taking your drugs is Pain Management doctors. And that is because the patients are getting prescribed large amounts of opiates and because a lot of people end up selling their pills.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:49 pm

I take lithium and my doctor has me take monthly blood work to make sure I am therapeutic. I am also in pain management and am given a urine test every other month to make sure I am taking my meds.

The point is maybe he was getting screened on a monthly basis to make sure he was taking his meds and was within therapeutic range. Even if he was going to die during NBK, maybe he secretly hoped the meds would make him better and he wouldn't go through with it?

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris: Luvox on His Last Day?   Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:48 am

If you believe Brooks Brown, he said that Eric would take his meds then go off of them and then back on at will to gain "awareness"

This is the first I have heard about Eric taking other medications. Would like a link if possible. We know Eric was on Zoloft but removed from that to start the Luvox. I don't think he was on anything else.

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