Dylan went to a McDonald's in Arizona and thought kids were laughing at him

So here's a little tidbit from Susan Klebold's book:

Quote :

There was one more odd incident on our way home, which at the time Tom and I chalked up to Dylan’s desire to get back to his friends. The three of us stopped at a packed McDonald’s in Pueblo for a quick bite. A large group of teenagers had taken over a couple of tables against the wall. We’d just unwrapped our sandwiches when Dylan leaned forward, hardly moving his lips, and said urgently, “We have to go. Those kids are laughing at me.” I looked over. The teenagers were hooting and hollering and having a great time, and none of them was paying the slightest bit of attention to us.

“Relax, Dyl. Nobody’s looking at you,” I said. Besides, if a person didn’t want to be noticed, why wear a floor-length leather coat? But Dylan grew more insistent, casting quick, paranoid glances over his shoulder at the oblivious kids. He was so uncomfortable that we bolted our burgers and hustled out of there; the teenagers didn’t even look up at us as we left. The rest of the ride home was uneventful. (p. 242)

Dylan was painfully insecure, wasn't he?

He really was. Just by the reaction, you can tell he had a lot of bad experiences with other teens. And those teens were people he probably didn't even know. It's sad to think that just by seeing strangers pulled a trigger and his mind started to generate and envision those kids making fun of him.

I think he's got several lines in his journal that says:
Everyone knows everyone. I swear, like im an outcast, & everyone is conspiring against me...  
All people i ever might have loved have abandoned me, my parents piss me off & hate me... want me to have fuckin ambition!! How can i when i get screwed & destroyed By everything??!!!! I have no money, no happiness, no friends... Eric will be getting farther away soon... I'll have less than nothing... how normal. I wanted to love... i wanted to be happy and ambitious and free & nice & good & ignorant.... everyone abandoned me.... i have small stupid pleasures,... my so called hobbies & doings.... those are all thats left for me

and that was back in '97. Dylan's insecurities just increased as the years went by and he completely started to lose hope

He just seemed desperate and very lonely. He murdered innocent kids but you still can’t help but feel for him.

This also makes Sue seem more in denial than her claim that she didn’t know warning signs of mental health ( or ignorance).

This also makes me wonder if he was dealing with some paranoia or even PTSD from bullying (which, yes, is a real thing!).

shadowofthewill wrote:

He really was. Just by the reaction, you can tell he had a lot of bad experiences with other teens. And those teens were people he probably didn't even know. It's sad to think that just by seeing strangers pulled a trigger and his mind started to generate and envision those kids making fun of him.

I think he's got several lines in his journal that says:
Everyone knows everyone. I swear, like im an outcast, & everyone is conspiring against me...  
All people i ever might have loved have abandoned me, my parents piss me off & hate me... want me to have fuckin ambition!! How can i when i get screwed & destroyed By everything??!!!! I have no money, no happiness, no friends... Eric will be getting farther away soon... I'll have less than nothing... how normal. I wanted to love... i wanted to be happy and ambitious and free & nice & good & ignorant.... everyone abandoned me.... i have small stupid pleasures,... my so called hobbies & doings.... those are all thats left for me

and that was back in '97. Dylan's insecurities just increased as the years went by and he completely started to lose hope

Yes being in Pueblo its certain he did not know those kids and they didn't know him. Funny Sue points out that someone who does not want to be noticed wears something that stands out so much.

Lizpuff wrote:

shadowofthewill wrote:

He really was. Just by the reaction, you can tell he had a lot of bad experiences with other teens. And those teens were people he probably didn't even know. It's sad to think that just by seeing strangers pulled a trigger and his mind started to generate and envision those kids making fun of him.

I think he's got several lines in his journal that says:
Everyone knows everyone. I swear, like im an outcast, & everyone is conspiring against me...  
All people i ever might have loved have abandoned me, my parents piss me off & hate me... want me to have fuckin ambition!! How can i when i get screwed & destroyed By everything??!!!! I have no money, no happiness, no friends... Eric will be getting farther away soon... I'll have less than nothing... how normal. I wanted to love... i wanted to be happy and ambitious and free & nice & good & ignorant.... everyone abandoned me.... i have small stupid pleasures,... my so called hobbies & doings.... those are all thats left for me

and that was back in '97. Dylan's insecurities just increased as the years went by and he completely started to lose hope

Yes being in Pueblo its certain he did not know those kids and they didn't know him.  Funny Sue points out that someone who does not want to be noticed wears something that stands out so much.  

Dylan is interesting in that way. I wonder sometimes if he wanted to portray himself as rough and scary to make sure people left him alone?

I think Robyn described him as rough and you had to get to know him etc..

Where as Devon described him as a gifted poet, kind and a good listener.

LPorter101 wrote:

So here's a little tidbit from Susan Klebold's book:

Quote :

There was one more odd incident on our way home, which at the time Tom and I chalked up to Dylan’s desire to get back to his friends. The three of us stopped at a packed McDonald’s in Pueblo for a quick bite. A large group of teenagers had taken over a couple of tables against the wall. We’d just unwrapped our sandwiches when Dylan leaned forward, hardly moving his lips, and said urgently, “We have to go. Those kids are laughing at me.” I looked over. The teenagers were hooting and hollering and having a great time, and none of them was paying the slightest bit of attention to us.

“Relax, Dyl. Nobody’s looking at you,” I said. Besides, if a person didn’t want to be noticed, why wear a floor-length leather coat? But Dylan grew more insistent, casting quick, paranoid glances over his shoulder at the oblivious kids. He was so uncomfortable that we bolted our burgers and hustled out of there; the teenagers didn’t even look up at us as we left. The rest of the ride home was uneventful. (p. 242)

Dylan was painfully insecure, wasn't he?

That's a clear symptom of PTSD.

I've always wondered if those kids ever realized who Dylan was after the shooting.

I can't imagine how mind boggling it would of been to realize the tall blonde kid in a trench coat they saw perpetrated the worst school shooting in America at the time.

slippy123 wrote:

I've always wondered if those kids ever realized who Dylan was after the shooting.

I can't imagine how mind boggling it would of been to realize the tall blonde kid in a trench coat they saw perpetrated the worst school shooting in America at the time.  

Or the kids at Sues work realizing the teenaged boy who helped out on the playground was Dylan.

true_crime wrote:

He just seemed desperate and very lonely. He murdered innocent kids but you still can’t help but feel for him.

This also makes Sue seem more in denial than her claim that she didn’t know warning signs of mental health ( or ignorance).

This also makes me wonder if he was dealing with some paranoia or even PTSD from bullying (which, yes, is a real thing!).

jada887 wrote:

LPorter101 wrote:

So here's a little tidbit from Susan Klebold's book:

Quote :

There was one more odd incident on our way home, which at the time Tom and I chalked up to Dylan’s desire to get back to his friends. The three of us stopped at a packed McDonald’s in Pueblo for a quick bite. A large group of teenagers had taken over a couple of tables against the wall. We’d just unwrapped our sandwiches when Dylan leaned forward, hardly moving his lips, and said urgently, “We have to go. Those kids are laughing at me.” I looked over. The teenagers were hooting and hollering and having a great time, and none of them was paying the slightest bit of attention to us.

“Relax, Dyl. Nobody’s looking at you,” I said. Besides, if a person didn’t want to be noticed, why wear a floor-length leather coat? But Dylan grew more insistent, casting quick, paranoid glances over his shoulder at the oblivious kids. He was so uncomfortable that we bolted our burgers and hustled out of there; the teenagers didn’t even look up at us as we left. The rest of the ride home was uneventful. (p. 242)

Dylan was painfully insecure, wasn't he?

That's a clear symptom of PTSD.

Is it? Given how Dylan wrote in his journal about how everyone, even his family, secretly hated him, I'm more willing to believe that he was genuinely paranoid.

If you look at it in the full context of Dylan Klebold, you could try and tie it to a pattern, but at the same time, this incident specifically could be nothing more than anxiety or a misunderstanding.

QuestionMark wrote:

Is it? Given how Dylan wrote in his journal about how everyone, even his family, secretly hated him, I'm more willing to believe that he was genuinely paranoid.

Yes, it is. PTSD is a condition that causes individuals to relive traumatic events. People who have PTSD often get chills, panic attacks, fear, and paranoia, when they are reminded of the event (or events) that caused the trauma. Based on what I've read, Dylan might have experienced PTSD at the McDonald's in Arizona. Dylan was probably reliving the torment he received in the commons. That's my hypothesis here. I'm not suggesting that Dylan wasn't a paranoid thinker; I'm just suggesting what he might have experienced in Arizona when he was confronted by teenagers who might not have noticed Dylan's duster.

jada887 wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Is it? Given how Dylan wrote in his journal about how everyone, even his family, secretly hated him, I'm more willing to believe that he was genuinely paranoid.

Yes, it is. PTSD is a condition that causes individuals to relive traumatic events. People who have PTSD often get chills, panic attacks, fear, and paranoia, when they are reminded of the event (or events) that caused the trauma. Based on what I've read, Dylan might have experienced PTSD at the McDonald's in Arizona. Dylan was probably reliving the torment he received in the commons. That's my hypothesis here. I'm not suggesting that Dylan wasn't a paranoid thinker; I'm just suggesting what he might have experienced in Arizona when he was confronted by teenagers who might not have noticed Dylan's duster.

It could be a possibility, yes, but I don't consider it to be high on the list.

There's another thing about this little incident that seems...off to me. For some reason I'm reminded of Dylan's school paper where he writes about a person (who has characteristics of himself) gunning down jocks and preps outside a bar.

QuestionMark wrote:

jada887 wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Is it? Given how Dylan wrote in his journal about how everyone, even his family, secretly hated him, I'm more willing to believe that he was genuinely paranoid.

Yes, it is. PTSD is a condition that causes individuals to relive traumatic events. People who have PTSD often get chills, panic attacks, fear, and paranoia, when they are reminded of the event (or events) that caused the trauma. Based on what I've read, Dylan might have experienced PTSD at the McDonald's in Arizona. Dylan was probably reliving the torment he received in the commons. That's my hypothesis here. I'm not suggesting that Dylan wasn't a paranoid thinker; I'm just suggesting what he might have experienced in Arizona when he was confronted by teenagers who might not have noticed Dylan's duster.

It could be a possibility, yes, but I don't consider it to be high on the list.

There's another thing about this little incident that seems...off to me. For some reason I'm reminded of Dylan's school paper where he writes about a person (who has characteristics of himself) gunning down jocks and preps outside a bar.

I still find it so interesting that his teacher was worried about the swearing more so than the content. Though before that day they probably didn’t think anything of it

Screamingophelia wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

jada887 wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Is it? Given how Dylan wrote in his journal about how everyone, even his family, secretly hated him, I'm more willing to believe that he was genuinely paranoid.

Yes, it is. PTSD is a condition that causes individuals to relive traumatic events. People who have PTSD often get chills, panic attacks, fear, and paranoia, when they are reminded of the event (or events) that caused the trauma. Based on what I've read, Dylan might have experienced PTSD at the McDonald's in Arizona. Dylan was probably reliving the torment he received in the commons. That's my hypothesis here. I'm not suggesting that Dylan wasn't a paranoid thinker; I'm just suggesting what he might have experienced in Arizona when he was confronted by teenagers who might not have noticed Dylan's duster.

It could be a possibility, yes, but I don't consider it to be high on the list.

There's another thing about this little incident that seems...off to me. For some reason I'm reminded of Dylan's school paper where he writes about a person (who has characteristics of himself) gunning down jocks and preps outside a bar.

I still find it so interesting that his teacher was worried about the swearing more so than the content. Though  before that  day they probably didn’t think anything of it

As the saying goes, hindsight really is 20/20.

Ignoring what Dylan did, the story read very much like a movie. So perhaps she saw it more as that kind of thing and only the swearing was out of place in a school. Despite being gory

I don't think there's a contradiction between the clothes he wore and not wanting to be noticed, I used to wear goth clothes when I was younger and long coats were perfect for hiding my skinny body, insecurity is a bitch and even to this day, being 36 years old, I get mildly triggered if I hear people laughing and try to avoid packed places.

jada887 wrote:

That's a clear symptom of PTSD.

I just reread that passage over the weekend, and I have come to the conclusion the McDonald's incident might be another symptom of Dylan's avoidant personality disorder instead of PTSD. It's very common for patients with AvPD to misinterpret other people's actions in a negative light.

jada887 wrote:

jada887 wrote:

That's a clear symptom of PTSD.

I just reread that passage over the weekend, and I have come to the conclusion the McDonald's incident might be another symptom of Dylan's avoidant personality disorder instead of PTSD. It's very common for patients with AvPD to misinterpret other people's actions in a negative light.

anxiety too and again I am really not defending Dylan but after years of bullying I felt uncomfortable around people even glancing at me and laughing...

Still today i have to stop myself from thinking a laugh or a look might be about me...

QuestionMark wrote:

There's another thing about this little incident that seems...off to me. For some reason I'm reminded of Dylan's school paper where he writes about a person (who has characteristics of himself) gunning down jocks and preps outside a bar.

I should probably clarify what I meant by this.

This is just conjecture, but maybe Dylan wasn't actually paranoid or fearful about those kids at the table. Maybe instead he thought their laughter was aggravating and it was pissing him off, and then he came up with the excuse that they were laughing at him so he could leave without having an outburst. I have a feeling that if he had been with Eric and Zach instead of his parents the trio would've gotten into a confrontation.

The image that I have of Dylan is a very paranoid kid(combined with severe depression of course). Is this true?

Screamingophelia wrote:

jada887 wrote:

jada887 wrote:

That's a clear symptom of PTSD.

I just reread that passage over the weekend, and I have come to the conclusion the McDonald's incident might be another symptom of Dylan's avoidant personality disorder instead of PTSD. It's very common for patients with AvPD to misinterpret other people's actions in a negative light.

anxiety too and again I am really not defending Dylan but after years of bullying I felt uncomfortable around people even glancing at me and laughing...

Still today i have to stop myself from thinking a laugh or a look might be about me...

It seems that Dylan, from what I could tell, already had several avoidant traits before his teen years.

jada887 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

jada887 wrote:

jada887 wrote:

That's a clear symptom of PTSD.

I just reread that passage over the weekend, and I have come to the conclusion the McDonald's incident might be another symptom of Dylan's avoidant personality disorder instead of PTSD. It's very common for patients with AvPD to misinterpret other people's actions in a negative light.

anxiety too and again I am really not defending Dylan but after years of bullying I felt uncomfortable around people even glancing at me and laughing...

Still today i have to stop myself from thinking a laugh or a look might be about me...

It seems that Dylan, from what I could tell, already had several avoidant traits before his teen years.

Thats the narrative that I have, as well

I always felt this scene should be included in a Columbine movie. It’s such a clear view into Dylan’s mental state by that point.