Sleep deprivation

Here's something we never think about:

How much (or how little) sleep did Eric and Dylan get in the nights before the massacre? By the morning of 4/20, they must have been running on pure adrenaline.

Quote :

Sunday after the prom, Dylan slept late, then left for Eric’s in the afternoon. He looked terribly tired, which was only to be expected after the sleepover on Friday night and a late night at the prom.

All this time I was under the impression the prom was on a Friday night, but looking at the calendar, I guess it was actually on a Saturday? So the conversation between Dylan and his Mom happened early Sunday morning. Dylan then went to sleep and got up in the afternoon to go to Eric's.

I'm only 47 pages in so I haven't read about this yet. Is she referring to Eric sleeping over? So Eric slept over on Friday night? They filmed the part of the Basement Tapes where Dylan was talking about how he didn't want to go to the prom. The next day (Saturday) Dylan went to the prom and got home early Sunday morning, slept in and then got up and went to Eric's.

Eric slept over Friday night April 16 (the same day they made a portion of the Basment tapes in Dylan's bedroom), arriving at the Klebold's at 10:00 pm.

Saturday April 17 was the prom, Dylan got home at 4:00 am Sunday morning April 18 after the prom etc and talked to his Mom.

Sunday afternoon April 18, Dylan went to Eric's.

Resurrecting this thread because I was re-reading Sue's book and I wondered just how little sleep both E & D were functioning on and if/how that might have affected their demeanor on 4/20.  

To recap: according to Chris Lau’s police interview, both Eric and Dylan worked on Friday the 16th and it was the last day either of them worked.  In Sue's book, she mentions that the bed they had made up for Eric on Friday night was never slept in.  It seems that the boys stayed up all night.  By the time Sue came down to make breakfast on Saturday, Eric was gone.  Dylan went to the prom that evening while Eric had Susan over and then both of them were at the after-prom event until roughly 4 AM on Sunday.  Dylan slept in and went over to Eric’s Sunday afternoon; this was one of the times when Eric’s neighbors heard a power saw in the Harris garage.  Presumably, they both slept normally on Sunday night; I’m not aware of any evidence to the contrary.  

On Monday, Eric makes ‘cryptic’ remarks in video production class and seems ‘off’ to Susan when she sees him.  That evening, both boys went with Mark Manes to get ammo at K-Mart – either using dinner at Outback Steakhouse as a cover or (possibly) they actually went there too.  When Dylan got home around 8:30, he told his parents that ‘he had a lot of work to do’ in his room and would be busy all evening.  From the “Nixon” tape, we know that Eric likely didn’t sleep Monday night, or very little if he did.  According to Sue’s book, Dylan was up earlier than usual on Tuesday (normally, she had to wake him) and he was out the door very quickly.

So, that’s (possibly) one full/normal night of sleep out of four nights, with some napping during the day on Sunday.  I know that younger people can function on little sleep, but I think it’s fair to say that both were running at a deficit by the time Tuesday morning rolled around.  I don’t know about anyone else, but when I’m sleep-deprived, I get very quiet and sometimes giddy – it feels similar to being drunk.  As LPorter101 mentioned above, they were both certainly flooded with adrenaline as they planted the propane-tank bombs and began the attack outside.  Adrenaline will override everything for a while, but it burns off.  I’m wondering if the post-adrenaline ‘crash’ combined with an existing state of sleep deprivation might partially explain the ‘quiet period’ that followed the murders in the library.

Huh! Good thread!
Maybe they were so stressed that they could not sleep well? They indeed had "a lot of work to do", yeah
Or, can it be that this was intentional? Not getting enough sleep so that they could stop thinking - about further consequences, about whether NBK was a really good decision... anything?

Huh! Interesting. They say many people show some small warning signs before suicide. Even if such a sign does not seem to be a "big deal"... like Dylan getting up unusually early.

Yes [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], adrenaline overrides things - for a while, but it has a tendency to disappear. So I do agree with your theory on that quiet period!

It seems like they never really got enough sleep......not just on the weekend before NBK.  Their classes started so early at Columbine and with Eric and Dylan either working at Blackjack or staying up late to play Doom, it just seems like they were pretty much sleep deprived most of the time. Teenagers need about 9-10 hours of sleep each day. I doubt they were getting that much sleep.

JayHawk80 wrote:

On Monday, Eric makes ‘cryptic’ remarks in video production class and seems ‘off’ to Susan when she sees him. That evening, both boys went with Mark Manes to get ammo at K-Mart – either using dinner at Outback Steakhouse as a cover or (possibly) they actually went there too. When Dylan got home around 8:30, he told his parents that ‘he had a lot of work to do’ in his room and would be busy all evening. From the “Nixon” tape, we know that Eric likely didn’t sleep Monday night, or very little if he did. According to Sue’s book, Dylan was up earlier than usual on Tuesday (normally, she had to wake him) and he was out the door very quickly.

So, that’s (possibly) one full/normal night of sleep out of four nights, with some napping during the day on Sunday. I know that younger people can function on little sleep, but I think it’s fair to say that both were running at a deficit by the time Tuesday morning rolled around. I don’t know about anyone else, but when I’m sleep-deprived, I get very quiet and sometimes giddy – it feels similar to being drunk. As LPorter101 mentioned above, they were both certainly flooded with adrenaline as they planted the propane-tank bombs and began the attack outside. Adrenaline will override everything for a while, but it burns off. I’m wondering if the post-adrenaline ‘crash’ combined with an existing state of sleep deprivation might partially explain the ‘quiet period’ that followed the murders in the library.

jay hawk you are amazing! Everything you said is on point and very possible. Their quiet period may have been a combination of adrenaline crash and also the body realising that it is EXTREMELY worn out. Many people forget that depression and their strange behavior, even emotions such as anger and sadness could be a result of constant sleep deprivation. It's very very likely. I remember when I was in school and I was basically an insomniac, I barely got any sleep. By my last year I was basically a depressed zombie who said very little and people kept asking me if I was okay.

I agree, thank you for this. I really wasn't aware that their sleeping schedule might have been one of the few factors for the way they acted. And they were sober during 4/20 right? They weren't like Anders Breveik who had a combination of shit in his system during his attack.

According to Zach, Dylan didn't go to sleep until 12-2am on school nights. Getting up for bowling at 5am doesn't leave a ton of sleep. I think he was used to not sleeping a whole ton.
I am too old. I cannot do any of that anymore lol.

Eric on the other hand, I think he was way too nervous to sleep. Too many thoughts going thru his head. Quite possibly that may be why he continued to take his medication. To quiet those thoughts so he was not so nervous so he could continue "life as normal" until the big day

shades wrote:

JayHawk80 wrote:

On Monday, Eric makes ‘cryptic’ remarks in video production class and seems ‘off’ to Susan when she sees him.  That evening, both boys went with Mark Manes to get ammo at K-Mart – either using dinner at Outback Steakhouse as a cover or (possibly) they actually went there too.  When Dylan got home around 8:30, he told his parents that ‘he had a lot of work to do’ in his room and would be busy all evening.  From the “Nixon” tape, we know that Eric likely didn’t sleep Monday night, or very little if he did.  According to Sue’s book, Dylan was up earlier than usual on Tuesday (normally, she had to wake him) and he was out the door very quickly.

So, that’s (possibly) one full/normal night of sleep out of four nights, with some napping during the day on Sunday.  I know that younger people can function on little sleep, but I think it’s fair to say that both were running at a deficit by the time Tuesday morning rolled around.  I don’t know about anyone else, but when I’m sleep-deprived, I get very quiet and sometimes giddy – it feels similar to being drunk.  As LPorter101 mentioned above, they were both certainly flooded with adrenaline as they planted the propane-tank bombs and began the attack outside.  Adrenaline will override everything for a while, but it burns off.  I’m wondering if the post-adrenaline ‘crash’ combined with an existing state of sleep deprivation might partially explain the ‘quiet period’ that followed the murders in the library.

jay hawk you are amazing! Everything you said is on point and very possible. Their quiet period may have been a combination of adrenaline crash and also the body realising that it is EXTREMELY worn out. Many people forget that depression and their strange behavior, even emotions such as anger and sadness could be a result of constant sleep deprivation. It's very very likely. I remember when I was in school and I was basically an insomniac, I barely got any sleep. By my last year I was basically a depressed zombie who said very little and people kept asking me if I was okay.

I agree, thank you for this. I really wasn't aware that their sleeping schedule might have been one of the few factors for the way they acted. And they were sober during 4/20 right? They weren't like Anders Breveik who had a combination of shit in his system during his attack.

what kind of shit you talking about ? medication ?

Lizpuff wrote:

According to Zach, Dylan didn't go to sleep until 12-2am on school nights.  Getting up for bowling at 5am doesn't leave a ton of sleep.  I think he was used to not sleeping a whole ton.  
I am too old.  I cannot do any of that anymore lol.

Eric on the other hand, I think he was way too nervous to sleep.  Too many thoughts going thru his head.  Quite possibly that may be why he continued to take his medication.  To quiet those thoughts so he was not so nervous so he could continue "life as normal" until the big day

eric particularly says it all in his journal , not like dylan , dylan was not coherent at all in his journal .

afrrs wrote:

what kind of shit you talking about ? medication ?

Anders was on and I quote "Caffeine, Ephedrine and Aspirin ran in his bloodstream."

Ephedrine is a medication used to prevent low blood pressure during spinal anesthesia. It has also been used for asthma, narcolepsy, and obesity but is not the preferred treatment.

I have not studied in detail why Anders took ephedrine.

Freezingmoon wrote:

It seems like they never really got enough sleep......not just on the weekend before NBK.  Their classes started so early at Columbine and with Eric and Dylan either working at Blackjack or staying up late to play Doom, it just seems like they were pretty much sleep deprived most of the time. Teenagers need about 9-10 hours of sleep each day. I doubt they were getting that much sleep.

In one of Eric's online chats he talks about writing a note to his parents explaining his online conversations and why he stays up so late and "a lot of other stuff that they have been bitching at me about" so it seems that Eric definitely had a habit of staying up late on his computer chatting and his parents were not happy about it.

shades wrote:

afrrs wrote:

what kind of shit you talking about ? medication ?

Anders was on and I quote "Caffeine, Ephedrine and Aspirin ran in his bloodstream."

Ephedrine is a medication used to prevent low blood pressure during spinal anesthesia. It has also been used for asthma, narcolepsy, and obesity but is not the preferred treatment.

I have not studied in detail why Anders took ephedrine.

He probably took it to deliberately get himself pumped up/hyped up. I use to take diet pills with ephedrine in them (before they were banned here).  They made me super hyper and suppressed my appetite.  They made my heart race.

eric was taking luvox and he had traces of it in his body after he was dead , the autopsy showed . But i dont understand why he was taking it because :

" Fluvoxamine ( brand names: Faverin, Fevarin, Floxyfral, Dumyrox and Luvox) is used primarily for the treatment of obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD),[3] and is also used to treat major depressive disorder and anxiety disorders such as panic disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder.Fluvoxamine CR (controlled release) is approved to treat social anxiety disorder. "

eric had none of this symptoms .

dylan had no traces of drugs .

p.s - i will make a seperated thread for this particularly topic .

afrrs wrote:

eric was taking luvox and he had traces of it in his body after he was dead , the autopsy showed . But i dont understand why he was taking it because :

" Fluvoxamine ( brand names: Faverin, Fevarin, Floxyfral, Dumyrox and Luvox) is used primarily for the treatment of obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD),[3] and is also used to treat major depressive disorder and anxiety disorders such as panic disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder.Fluvoxamine CR (controlled release) is approved to treat social anxiety disorder. "

eric had none of this symptoms .

Actually, Eric very likely had major depressive disorder. I don't believe he ever received an official diagnosis (?) but he showed most of the symptoms through his writing. He also suffered with low self esteem, which was also very prevalent in his journal - so even if he didn't have any form of depression, it's likely that he also took Luvox to help with that. I'm no doctor, just judging on what I've read about Eric.

Regardless of the drugs we knew Eric took, significantly on 4/20 the boys weren't on anything new right? Like they didn't drink or they didn't have caffeine whatsoever. So basically they were sober but yet lacking sleep so the adrenaline rush kicked in but also abruptly stopped.

The point was that they were in a really fucked up state of mind that day trying to kill people, barely concentrated and most likely dazed.

Yeah, being so extremely tired and in this state of mind might have contributed to them being so ineffective at killing.
Sometimes I wonder maybe this is why they managed to shoot only so "few" people?

Yea I agree. There was a boost of adrenaline, and then the huge crash.