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 Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers?

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Fatheroftwo
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bubbles




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PostSubject: Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers?   Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers? Icon_minitimeSat Apr 30, 2016 12:02 am

As we all know, a common misconception about Eric and Dylan's relationship dynamic is that Eric was the "sole evil mastermind" and Dylan was simply the "depressed follower". Reading the 11k, I've found it really interesting how people's accounts and impressions of both Eric and Dylan tend to differ significantly.

While one former classmate may say Dylan was affable whilst Eric was rude and hostile, another one would say that it was Eric who was pleasant while Dylan was sarcastic and mean. I know people's opinions and experiences with E&D will differ, but it fascinates me how many people who knew them have presented such contrasting views of them. There is definitely a pattern of certain behaviours/demeanors that emerges in the 11k when people describe E&D, but it's interesting how the accounts of each of them vary quite dramatically at times.

Here is a link to an interesting document which groups several of the 11k statements by subject. It briefly summarizes witness accounts which describe E&D's attitudes towards fellow classmates, teachers, family etc:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

An account I found really interesting was that of Michelle Hartsough who worked with Eric and Dylan at Blackjack Pizza:

"Michelle described Eric, as a nice guy who was angry with life, and often seemed paranoid. She said that he had a poor relationship with his parents because they were always grounding him. He liked German Techno music and was known for copying his own CD’s at home. He talked about having Nazi beliefs, but she did not think it was authentic."

"Michelle described Dylan as a difficult person who was often rude. She said that he hit her once because she had counselled him on an infraction at work. Michelle said that Dylan didn't get along well with his father."

Another differing account from a classmate, Jennifer Harmon:

"Dylan wasn’t a bad guy,” says Harmon. “I never thought he would do something like (the rampage). But they said Eric’s name on TV and I automatically knew Dylan was going to be there. Eric had a persuasion. I think Eric would always tell Dylan that people never liked him, and he was his only true friend.” Jennifer remembers them this way: Dylan smiled. Eric didn’t. Dylan was nice. Eric had a mean streak. One day, Jennifer says, she was singing a song from the German metal group Rammstein - one of the boys’ favorite bands. Eric made fun of her. Dylan told him to stop.”

The above are just two examples of how people perceived them very differently. As I mentioned, I know that both Eric and Dylan displayed aggressive, rude and sometimes threatening behaviour towards their peers, but I'm interested to know, based on all the differing accounts we have floating around, who here still believes that Eric was ultimately seen as the bad seed by the people who knew him and Dylan? Does anyone believe that it was actually Dylan who had a worse reputation in terms of his anger problems that seem to come up a lot in these statements? Or do you believe that all these accounts even each other out and that they were both pretty much seen in the same light?
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PostSubject: Re: Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers?   Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers? Icon_minitimeSat Apr 30, 2016 12:21 am

As a quick contribution, I would start off by saying that I think Eric and Dylan consciously chose how they choose to act towards different people. We gotta remember that these two guys strategically put on a front when they're out there in reality and aren't really themselves; amongst that, the feedback that we hear of them also come from people who will obviously have different opinions of them - those of which who are good friends or colleagues who like them or grew to like them whereas others' who are part of the bland "zombies" who judge them based on first impression and never tried to understand the boys.

They were both viewed negatively if you weigh out the comments from anybody who ever knew them.

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Nirvana92

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PostSubject: Re: Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers?   Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers? Icon_minitimeSat Apr 30, 2016 2:21 am

liquorvamp wrote:
As a quick contribution, I would start off by saying that I think Eric and Dylan consciously chose how they choose to act towards different people. We gotta remember that these two guys strategically put on a front when they're out there in reality and aren't really themselves; amongst that, the feedback that we hear of them also come from people who will obviously have different opinions of them - those of which who are good friends or colleagues who like them or grew to like them whereas others' who are part of the bland "zombies" who judge them based on first impression and never tried to understand the boys.

They were both viewed negatively if you weigh out the comments from anybody who ever knew them.

I agree. Eric and Dylan wanted to be different from their peers. They actively went out of their way to be weird and to fit into the loner category.
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Fatheroftwo




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PostSubject: Re: Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers?   Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers? Icon_minitimeSun May 01, 2016 12:18 am

To answer OP's question... if you listen to their peers & inner circle, Eric takes the heat far more than Dylan.

Psych analysis aside, this is the foundation for a lot of the 4/20 judgement re: blame that a lot on this site are bothered by.
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slippy123

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PostSubject: Re: Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers?   Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers? Icon_minitimeSun May 01, 2016 1:15 am

Agree what Vamp said, Eric especially. He could lie his way out of anything, and he bragged about it. He could put on a front for whoever he was dealing with. Dylan, seemed more of like if he didn't like someone he'd act out on it and not fake it like Eric. I believe whatever situation was thrown at them, they put on different facades for. I think Eric was just better at manipulative lying.

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PostSubject: Re: Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers?   Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers? Icon_minitimeSun May 01, 2016 1:55 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "He could lie his way out of anything, and he bragged about it. He could put on a front for whoever he was dealing with. Dylan, seemed more of like if he didn't like someone he'd act out on it and not fake it like Eric. I believe whatever situation was thrown at them, they put on different facades for." yup yup yup. if anything any opinion that a person had about them isn't even a genuine description of who they were at all, so we can't count on that comment. If it were a negative or weird context it's EXACTLY what the boys wanted. they retaliated by acting that way. they got off on it, and it makes it easier to cope.

Sometimes you gotta start owning being the weirdo as a coping mechanism and so it wouldn't surprise you if someone dissed you about it, because you're already at that level of presentation.

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PaintItBlack

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PostSubject: Re: Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers?   Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers? Icon_minitimeSun May 01, 2016 2:06 am

I think Dylan was far better at putting on an act than Eric.Often it seemed like Eric could not control his anger and would explode while Dylan obviously could.

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PostSubject: Re: Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers?   Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers? Icon_minitimeSun May 01, 2016 3:32 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "I think Dylan was far better at putting on an act than Eric.Often it seemed like Eric could not control his anger and would explode while Dylan obviously could." - good insight, and that would explain why majority would say eric got the negative view BECAUSE of his slip with his anger issues. Still, both boys, have been conscious actors. and to constantly be pretending to conform to society, that sinks 'em in to their depression even more.

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PostSubject: Re: Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers?   Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers? Icon_minitimeMon May 02, 2016 11:54 am

Fatheroftwo wrote:
To answer OP's question...  if you listen to their peers & inner circle, Eric takes the heat far more than Dylan.

Psych analysis aside, this is the foundation for a lot of the 4/20 judgement re: blame that a lot on this site are bothered by.

Slowly making my way through the 11k..and I have to say that I've been quite surprised at the amount of peers who had negative dealings with Dylan. I know it's obvious that the media has put their slant on things over the years and it's evident they've essentially always presented Eric as the leader, Dylan as the follower..but yeah, I'd have to say that it has surprised me just how evident Dylan's anger issues/bad attitude/hatred was to the people who knew him. It almost feels like the negative accounts of each of them could almost be 50/50..but I do agree that Eric was probably viewed more poorly by his peers overall.
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PostSubject: Re: Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers?   Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers? Icon_minitimeMon May 02, 2016 1:37 pm

bubbles wrote:
Fatheroftwo wrote:
To answer OP's question...  if you listen to their peers & inner circle, Eric takes the heat far more than Dylan.

Psych analysis aside, this is the foundation for a lot of the 4/20 judgement re: blame that a lot on this site are bothered by.

Slowly making my way through the 11k..and I have to say that I've been quite surprised at the amount of peers who had negative dealings with Dylan. I know it's obvious that the media has put their slant on things over the years and it's evident they've essentially always presented Eric as the leader, Dylan as the follower..but yeah, I'd have to say that it has surprised me just how evident Dylan's anger issues/bad attitude/hatred was to the people who knew him. It almost feels like the negative accounts of each of them could almost be 50/50..but I do agree that Eric was probably viewed more poorly by his peers overall.

I am also working thru the 11k. I have been surprised by the amount of teachers saying negative things about Dylan to an extent. That he could be mean, sleeping in class, just up and leaving class....he may have been smart but he certainly had given up by the end.
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PostSubject: Re: Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers?   Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers? Icon_minitimeTue May 03, 2016 8:12 pm

bubbles wrote:
Fatheroftwo wrote:
To answer OP's question...  if you listen to their peers & inner circle, Eric takes the heat far more than Dylan.

Psych analysis aside, this is the foundation for a lot of the 4/20 judgement re: blame that a lot on this site are bothered by.

Slowly making my way through the 11k..and I have to say that I've been quite surprised at the amount of peers who had negative dealings with Dylan. I know it's obvious that the media has put their slant on things over the years and it's evident they've essentially always presented Eric as the leader, Dylan as the follower..but yeah, I'd have to say that it has surprised me just how evident Dylan's anger issues/bad attitude/hatred was to the people who knew him. It almost feels like the negative accounts of each of them could almost be 50/50..but I do agree that Eric was probably viewed more poorly by his peers overall.


Good reminder that Dylan was no angel & equally responsible. Each had their own personality.. Eric's flaws were showcased by a lot of external behaviors that were easier to read, but Dylan certainly cracked enough on his own.

I have my thoughts on each as individuals, but in the end each had a lot of blood on their hands.
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PostSubject: Re: Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers?   Consensus on who was viewed in a more negative light by their peers? Icon_minitimeWed May 04, 2016 12:11 am

To put it all in a summarized fashion; Dylan was a dick, Eric was an asshole. Simple enough. Razz

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