Ever Find Yourself Defending Eric or Dylan?

And if you have, in which aspect would it be?
Would it be through a conversation with somebody or our very own debates in this forum? and why?

All the time. Both. It really angers some people but I do not do it to annoy people or be controversial.
I only say what I truly believe.

PaintItBlack wrote:

All the time. Both. It really angers some people but I do not do it to annoy people or be controversial.
I only say what I truly believe.

Which part do you find yourself defending the boys at the most? Like you've realised that you're always saying the same thing because people tend to get it wrong or are throwing assumptions?

I don't think consider what I do is defend them, but I try to educate people on what actually happened. That this was not intended to be a school shooting, that neither Cassie or Rachel "Said Yes", lots of the smaller myths that still circulate. To be honest, I don't think many people really care. They "heard" it, and so it is.

There are a lot of contributing factors that make me feel empathy for Eric and Dylan, but ultimately I really don't find myself defending them. If someone thinks horrible things about them then I feel they have every right to think that way. It's hard to defend people who shot innocent, defenseless kids cowering under library tables. I do get defensive when I hear people misconstrue the facts though.

I don't defend them. Mostly because I don't have anyone to defend them to. I talk here but that is kinda it. I don't go on tumblr or anywhere that may bring me in contact with those that have very severely different opinions

I have posted on YT a few times about it but not really any sort of defense went on. Just trying to get facts out over myths

I'm sure there is a fine line between understanding evil deeds to defending a killer because so&so. I'm still trying to set the two into a much clearer perspective because they could almost fall into the same pit.
Sounds to me like most of you guys find yourself backing up facts pertaining to the case and won't exactly call it the defending boys. What about the boys as individuals? Their flaws and personalities that we've come to learn about?

I of course like everybody do not condone what they've did. However I do see myself a lot in them particularly Dylan. Which is why guess I can really relate to all his suffering. I do not really consider it defending more like trying to help better understand and find answers.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

I'm sure there is a fine line between understanding evil deeds to defending a killer because so&so. I'm still trying to set the two into a much clearer perspective because they could almost fall into the same pit.
Sounds to me like most of you guys find yourself backing up facts pertaining to the case and won't exactly call it the defending boys. What about the boys as individuals? Their flaws and personalities that we've come to learn about?

Maybe sometimes? If someone were to come at me with the Cullen ideas of their personalities I would pipe back with my own opinions and I guess that has happened before.

Lizpuff wrote:

ultraviolencelv wrote:

I'm sure there is a fine line between understanding evil deeds to defending a killer because so&so. I'm still trying to set the two into a much clearer perspective because they could almost fall into the same pit.
Sounds to me like most of you guys find yourself backing up facts pertaining to the case and won't exactly call it the defending boys. What about the boys as individuals? Their flaws and personalities that we've come to learn about?

Maybe sometimes?  If someone were to come at me with the Cullen ideas of their personalities I would pipe back with my own opinions and I guess that has happened before.

I've never really ran into anyone who has more than basic knowledge of the case. Like Lizzpuff, if someone were spouting the psycho and emo thing I would correct them, but I don't really guess that's defending them. I don't think I could defend them at all, but I would educate people about the truth and what is known about their personalities. That they were not psycho and emo, they were very complex individuals who we are still studying today.

I find myself in sort of a defensive state when it came to the alienation or insecurities that they suffered though. I guess at any point about self-deprecation that they had with themselves and people saying that it's no reason to kill, I back it up a little bit while also making the point that I am not condoning -- but the latter is starting to feel pointless to me. Idk, to understand murder is almost as good as accepting that it happened. The only difference I have between a murderer is that I never committed harm. They did.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

I find myself in sort of a defensive state when it came to the alienation or insecurities that they suffered though. I guess at any point about self-deprecation that they had with themselves and people saying that it's no reason to kill, I back it up a little bit while also making the point that I am not condoning -- but the latter is starting to feel pointless to me. Idk, to understand murder is almost as good as accepting that it happened. The only difference I have between a murderer is that I never committed harm. They did.

Can I ask where you find these conversations at? I don't see much of these debates

Lizpuff wrote:

Can I ask where you find these conversations at? I don't see much of these debates

Which conversations?

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Can I ask where you find these conversations at? I don't see much of these debates

Which conversations?

The ones where you find yourself defending them

Lizpuff wrote:

The ones where you find yourself defending them

Pretty much on here really, I don't discuss Columbine anywhere else. I know there have been one or two threads awhile back that I'm between defending them yet caving in that it's no excuse.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

The ones where you find yourself defending them

Pretty much on here really, I don't discuss Columbine anywhere else. I know there have been one or two threads awhile back that I'm between defending them yet caving in that it's no excuse.

I see

I am always looking for more discussion lol as I have no life! I havent found another forum I like as much

I'm constantly @ a grey area with the boys...I guess that's why Columbine is my [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]!

ultraviolencelv wrote:

I'm constantly @ a grey area with the boys...I guess that's why Columbine is my [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]!

I know I enjoy talking with you bcause you are quite vocal about things and always bring up things that bring more thoughts to me and diff opinions! I am glad we found each other here

I often find myself defending Eric and Dylan. Not defending their actions, but the reasons why they chose to act. For example, some people call them monsters, and I try to defend them in that sense.

explicit wrote:

I often find myself defending Eric and Dylan. Not defending their actions, but the reasons why they chose to act. For example, some people call them monsters, and I try to defend them in that sense.

Same as I

Read the 13 victims autopsy reports again. Then ask yourselves why you defend these two vile creatures.

Draw_It_White wrote:

Read the 13 victims autopsy reports again. Then ask yourselves why you defend these two vile creatures.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I know how gruesome the deaths are in detail numerous times and let alone the senseless act of shooting up a school. As I have said above, I know how it will sound if I were to ever feel like I defend what the boys went through considering the fact they retaliated with murder. I already knew this would come. I'm just trying to point out the fact that it is inevitable for someone to find some relations with a person who happens to be a murderer. It is strictly up to that point and no further.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

All the time. Both. It really angers some people but I do not do it to annoy people or be controversial.
I only say what I truly believe.

Which part do you find yourself defending the boys at the most? Like you've realised that you're always saying the same thing because people tend to get it wrong or are throwing assumptions?

Both. I have corrected people many times when they spew Cullen's tripe.And I also find myself defending them on a personal level, that they weren't monsters, they were just kids themselves, they felt pain, depression, hurt,hopelessness, they weren't treated fairly by others a lot of the time because they were different,their death was a real loss, there are people that truly miss them and so on.I've also defended their parents on a personal level many times.

Wow. Had a weird experience today and i must share. Apologies because this will be a long post. I was visiting with my mom today and she tells me about a boy (whose family we are acquainted with) who was arrested recently for making threats against his school. I wont go into what was said or done because its all allegations at this point, but the local DA is really throwing the book at him. Mom and i are discussing how you just cant see these things coming... Was this kid talking smack or is he truly planning something terrible?? Are the school and authorities over reacting? Etc.. Then mom brings up sue klebolds book. (i loaned it to her a while back. Frankly didnt expect that she would read it). Anyway she mentions how sue said she didnt see it coming... (Im paraphrasing here)How she chalked dylans moodiness up to teen angst. How in spite of the moods etc he was a delightful young man... Blah blah then how sue didnt realize that' dylan had become depressed and had fallen under the influence of eric'. I surprised myself by holding up my hand and stopped her right there. With more passion than i realized, i set her straight on the whole eric the psycho dylan the follower theory. I dont discuss my interest in this case with many people mainly because they dont really give a crap about it and they find it strange that i am sooo interested in it. When i fist saw this thread i didnt give it much thought because i hadnt found myself defending eric or dylan. Then a day later here i am passionately explaining the error in the whole psychopath/follower theory.

rockiemontana wrote:

Wow. Had a weird experience today and i must share. Apologies because this will be a long post. I was visiting with my mom today and she tells me about a boy (whose family we are acquainted with) who was arrested recently for making threats against his school. I wont go into what was said or done because its all allegations at this point, but the local DA is really throwing the book at him. Mom and i are discussing how you just cant see these things coming... Was this kid talking smack or is he truly planning something terrible?? Are the school and authorities over reacting? Etc.. Then mom brings up sue klebolds book. (i loaned it to her a while back. Frankly didnt expect that she would read it). Anyway she mentions how sue said she didnt see it coming... (Im paraphrasing here)How she chalked dylans moodiness up to teen angst. How in spite of the moods etc he was a delightful young man... Blah blah then how sue didnt realize that' dylan had become depressed and had fallen under the influence of eric'. I surprised myself by holding up my hand and stopped her right there. With more passion than i realized, i set her straight on the whole eric the psycho dylan the follower theory. I dont discuss my interest in this case with many people mainly because they dont really give a crap about it and they find it strange that i am sooo interested in it. When i fist saw this thread i didnt give it much thought because i hadnt found myself defending eric or dylan. Then a day later here i am passionately explaining the error in the whole psychopath/follower theory.

Thank you rockie. That's really interesting. It's also understandable you reacted that way, ultimately because you have followed the case for awhile now. It's almost second nature to jump in and correct the typical myths about the boys. Does it feel that way for you?
The influence of that theory had been passed around so much now I wonder how many people have settled with that being the cause of Columbine.

PaintItBlack wrote:

they were just kids themselves, they felt pain, depression, hurt,hopelessness, they weren't treated fairly by others a lot of the time because they were different,their death was a real loss, there are people that truly miss them and so on.

I gotta say, the part about their death being a loss too which I agree with has got to be one of the hardest to debate about. Because I completely understand many who will say their deaths do no matter at all and they can rot in hell.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

they were just kids themselves, they felt pain, depression, hurt,hopelessness, they weren't treated fairly by others a lot of the time because they were different,their death was a real loss, there are people that truly miss them and so on.

I gotta say, the part about their death being a loss too which I agree with has got to be one of the hardest to debate about. Because I completely understand many who will say their deaths do no matter at all and they can rot in hell.

To me, its not hard because I think that every life matters and if you look you can find something sad or tragic about almost every death, but I'm aware that most people don't see it that way.

Well yes, but I don't justify the killings. They had a rough time in high school like every other kid who is different and that shouldn't be accepted by the school staff, but it is. And it's not punished. Many of us had the same situation and only we know how it felt. It sucks.

I find myself defending them at any allegation that makes them more guilty or evil than they are. It's so ironic and weird, but it's like, yes they are horrible for what they did, but lets acknowledge it in its accuracy they should get than the instances of trying to paint them more than what they were.

I have never defended them and think they are ultimately evil pieces of work for what they did, however I do sometimes look at the bigger picture, as in why these shootings/bombings at schools are happening in the first place. As in, does our race as a whole accommodate every single human being that's brought into this world? no, I don't think so. Eric for example speaks a lot in his journal about not being happy with how modern human society operates, Dylan shared similar thoughts, although not as hatefully as Eric. Both of them simply couldn't adjust to the demands that our race has created from the minute we are born. They didn't suddenly snap, but they were unhappy enough and sure enough that they have no future on this planet to murder others and themselves. That's what worries me and not just in regards to this particular shooting, others follow a similar mind set.

Hectic wrote:

I have never defended them and think they are ultimately evil pieces of work for what they did, however I do sometimes look at the bigger picture, as in why these shootings/bombings at schools are happening in the first place. As in, does our race as a whole accommodate every single human being that's brought into this world? no, I don't think so. Eric for example speaks a lot in his journal about not being happy with how modern human society operates, Dylan shared similar thoughts, although not as hatefully as Eric. Both of them simply couldn't adjust to the demands that our race has created from the minute we are born. They didn't suddenly snap, but they were unhappy enough and sure enough that they have no future on this planet to murder others and themselves. That's what worries me and not just in regards to this particular shooting, others follow a similar mind set.

Wow. Very VERY excellent point [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Can't believe I didn't think of this in this angle.

And also, nice to see you back on here, it's been awhile since you hung around.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Hectic wrote:

I have never defended them and think they are ultimately evil pieces of work for what they did, however I do sometimes look at the bigger picture, as in why these shootings/bombings at schools are happening in the first place. As in, does our race as a whole accommodate every single human being that's brought into this world? no, I don't think so. Eric for example speaks a lot in his journal about not being happy with how modern human society operates, Dylan shared similar thoughts, although not as hatefully as Eric. Both of them simply couldn't adjust to the demands that our race has created from the minute we are born. They didn't suddenly snap, but they were unhappy enough and sure enough that they have no future on this planet to murder others and themselves. That's what worries me and not just in regards to this particular shooting, others follow a similar mind set.

Wow. Very VERY excellent point [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Can't believe I didn't think of this in this angle.

And also, nice to see you back on here, it's been awhile since you hung around.

Thanks man! Nice to see you too, I try to post whenever I have the time.