Classmate said Eric suicidal because of bullying

To me this is significant because a lot of people get the impression that he really didn't want to die, he just agreed to die to reel Dylan into NBK.
I think this shows that the bullying really did have a deep impact on Eric.

Melissa Chavez(9023)
Says Harris talked of suicide because he was picked on.

It must've been a bad day for him. I have had a few days back then in school where everything sucked and I must've told a person or two that I wanted to die really badly.

I'm gonna take that one claim to Melissa lightly, it may have been a statement said impulsively, although when it came nearing to NBK I honestly believed that he wished something happen where he could back out of it, and the day itself he may have been a little jittery to take his own life.

See when things suck a couple of times the want to die comes easy, and you say it alot, when something actually happens where there is the obligation to die or kill one's self, that's when you snap back to reality and realise you're really scared about it.

I believe that Eric was sincerely suicidal and had been for over a year .Maybe it started even earlier.
But because Eric always tried to sound strong, tough, hateful and angry in most of what he left behind,I think maybe people don't see this.To me, Eric must have hated his own life and living it very much to be willing to die no matter how much he wanted to strike out at people.

mmmmmm.....eeeeeeh. Well, I'm not completely disputing his suicidal tendencies. Weighing out with Dyl, Dyl is obviously way more suicidal than Eric. Eric didn't come with baggage the way Dylan did. and Eric was also on meds.

I feel and I could be wrong ,and I've come to this conclusion over many years, that there was a lot more to Eric than we know or see.
I think he had all these deep hidden emotions that he kept to himself and maybe hardly even expressed to anybody, not even Dylan.I don't know that Eric grew up being encouraged to express those kinds of emotions so maybe he didn't really know how.
Or at least not to Dylan very often although maybe I'm wrong.Maybe he and Dylan talked about these things more than we would think and Dylan never told anyone.

As far as Eric's med goes,they obviously didn't help him much if any but he just hurt himself greatly in the long run by cycling on and off them the way he did.That was the worst thing he could have done.
I think they probably made him even worse.

You're right.

I think that it is one thing to say you want to die or to say you want to commit suicide and a totally different thing to actually do it.

Dylan the one everyone says wanted to die by suicide, talked about it for years. But when it came down to it, he was too scared to do it at home by himself. It took this push to get him to do it.

I DO think Eric was afraid of suicide. He may have felt suicidal and stated that, but I think he was very afraid of death and of doing it himself. I think that is why it happened so quickly. He pushed it out of his mind until the very end, sat down and did it as quickly as he could. I think the quickness of it even surprised Dylan.

At the end of the day they both knew their lives were over and the death was their only way to escape. They probably knew they were going to die anyways.

I've never denied that Eric had some urge to die. He even admitted as much on his psych evaluation for his probation. Between the two though Eric had much more will to live. Eric was the only one who took the time to fantasize about escaping after NBK. He was also way more focused on the after effects of the attack than Dylan was. Eric wanted to kick start a revolution, and I'd be willing to bet he'd have stuck around to see it if it wouldn't have been viewed from a prison cell. Dylan was in on it to die from day one.

Eric was suicidal just enough to be willing to die on NBK. He hated his life just enough that it was worth throwing away for the "right" reason. Hell I could argue though that Eric loved his life enough that it wasnt worth wasting behind bars. Killing was what he wanted to do, and he didnt feel he should be punished for making a choice. Dying was simply the lesser of two evils to Eric. The argument can go both ways depending on how you view the kid and whether you believe he's a psychopath or not.

Nirvana92 wrote:

I've never denied that Eric had some urge to die. He even admitted as much on his psych evaluation for his probation. Between the two though Eric had much more will to live. Eric was the only one who took the time to fantasize about escaping after NBK. He was also way more focused on the after effects of the attack than Dylan was. Eric wanted to kick start a revolution, and I'd be willing to bet he'd have stuck around to see it if it wouldn't have been viewed from a prison cell. Dylan was in on it to die from day one.

Eric was suicidal just enough to be willing to die on NBK. He hated his life just enough that it was worth throwing away for the "right" reason. Hell I could argue that Eric loved his life enough that it wasnt worth wasting behind bars. Killing was what he wanted to do, and he didnt feel he should be punished for making a choice. Dying was simply the lesser of two evils to Eric.

perfect as always.

Nirvana92 wrote:

I've never denied that Eric had some urge to die. He even admitted as much on his psych evaluation for his probation.

Nope, on his mental health self evaluation sheet he indicated he had homicidal thoughts, but not suicidal ones.

bubbles wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

I've never denied that Eric had some urge to die. He even admitted as much on his psych evaluation for his probation.

Nope, on his mental health self evaluation sheet he indicated he had homicidal thoughts, but not suicidal ones.

I'll bet he didn't care weather he lived or died. If he was suicidal then there's no denying it.

bubbles wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

I've never denied that Eric had some urge to die. He even admitted as much on his psych evaluation for his probation.

Nope, on his mental health self evaluation sheet he indicated he had homicidal thoughts, but not suicidal ones.

Which is interesting in relation to what PaintItBlack said about Eric having a hard time with admitting certain feelings. Both because this girl Melissa says he had suicidal thoughts and because his parents did on the diversion papers.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Page 17
They checked off "suicidal thoughts" (along with anger and depression) and clarified that Eric had expressed these feelings to the psychologist after the van incident.

They also have a separate checklist where he said he had suicidal thoughts in a different section of the diversion papers.

Page 69
"Have you ever had thoughts about not wanting to live (committing suicide)?"
The maximum (more than two times) is circled here.

And there's always the fact that he went through with the massacre knowing he would die. There are many killers who don't plan to die or who don't go through with the suicide portion of their plan. It isn't a given.

Also of note on page 69 is that Eric says he's gotten angry and lost his temper "sometimes" but is down or depressed "usually." Which is interesting because he talks far more about his anger both in the context of treatment and in his everyday life. I think there's some evidence that Eric was genuinely suicidal but not as comfortable expressing his depressed feelings as he was expressing his anger.

bubbles wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

I've never denied that Eric had some urge to die. He even admitted as much on his psych evaluation for his probation.

Nope, on his mental health self evaluation sheet he indicated he had homicidal thoughts, but not suicidal ones.

Not true. On Page 2 of Eric's mental health evaluation he checks three boxes: anger, depression, and suicidal thoughts.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Nirvana92 wrote:

bubbles wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

I've never denied that Eric had some urge to die. He even admitted as much on his psych evaluation for his probation.

Nope, on his mental health self evaluation sheet he indicated he had homicidal thoughts, but not suicidal ones.

Not true. On Page 2 of Eric's mental health evaluation he checks three boxes: anger, depression, and suicidal thoughts.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That's the paper filled by Eric's parents. On top of the page it says "Has your child..." which means this form is for the relatives to fill. On the one with no suicidal thoughts ticked , mid page it says "have you.." which means that paper was to be filled by him. In conclusion, he never ticked suicidal thoughts ON THAT PAPER , BUT he DID tick Suicidal thoughts on another type of form (http://www.acolumbinesite.com/reports//harris-violent3.jpg)


Edit: I'd like to talk about the fact that his parents ticked the suicidal box. For me , having your parents be so convinced that you're suicidal is very telling. It makes me wonder if there were any fits like intense crying in front of his parents. This doesn't seem normal at all to me. Another thing that made me confused was when Eric's dad went to the hair salon and said hi to Susan and he "seemed very happy" . I don't know about you but to me that's a parent that has witnessed some fucked up shit from his son (worse than pipe bombs or theft imo) and he felt happy that his son seemed normal for once since he had a nice girl at his house. Thoughts?

Magnaphoria wrote:

Edit: I'd like to talk about the fact that his parents ticked the suicidal box. For me , having your parents be so convinced that you're suicidal is very telling. It makes me wonder if there were any fits like intense crying in front of his parents. This doesn't seem normal at all to me. Another thing that made me confused was when Eric's dad went to the hair salon and said hi to Susan and he "seemed very happy" . I don't know about you but to me that's a parent that has witnessed some fucked up shit from his son (worse than pipe bombs or theft imo) and he felt happy that his son seemed normal for once since he had a nice girl at his house. Thoughts?

You're getting somewhere...that could be possible. In regards to Wayne meeting Susan at her workplace the next day, I always got the impression he was just relieved that Eric had a date on prom night on something, who knows maybe prior to that they discussed whether he was going to prom and Eric said no or etcetc, I don't think it's that serious or anything.

Interesting that it was his parents who ticked suicidal thoughts. Look either way he ticked it or parents ticked it, the Harris family had to have known how Eric was feeling or what he was going through. Maybe Eric told himself he could handle feeling suicidal, perhaps he didn't wanna give too much away with ticking that looking weak despite being open about homicidal/harming others. Maybe he did believe he could find a way out with him possibly harming himself. Eric seemed like someone who would in no way portray how weak he was.

Magnaphoria wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

bubbles wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

I've never denied that Eric had some urge to die. He even admitted as much on his psych evaluation for his probation.

Nope, on his mental health self evaluation sheet he indicated he had homicidal thoughts, but not suicidal ones.

Not true. On Page 2 of Eric's mental health evaluation he checks three boxes: anger, depression, and suicidal thoughts.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That's the paper filled by Eric's parents. On top of the page it says "Has your child..." which means this form is for the relatives to fill. On the one with no suicidal thoughts ticked , mid page it says "have you.." which means that paper was to be filled by him. In conclusion, he never ticked suicidal thoughts ON THAT PAPER , BUT he DID tick Suicidal thoughts on another type of form (http://www.acolumbinesite.com/reports//harris-violent3.jpg)


Edit: I'd like to talk about the fact that his parents ticked the suicidal box. For me , having your parents be so convinced that you're suicidal is very telling. It makes me wonder if there were any fits like intense crying in front of his parents. This doesn't seem normal at all to me. Another thing that made me confused was when Eric's dad went to the hair salon and said hi to Susan and he "seemed very happy" . I don't know about you but to me that's a parent that has witnessed some fucked up shit from his son (worse than pipe bombs or theft imo) and he felt happy that his son seemed normal for once since he had a nice girl at his house. Thoughts?

I feel like everyone missed my post. Apparently, Eric's parents knew he was suicidal because he told the therapist after the van incident.

bubbles wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

I've never denied that Eric had some urge to die. He even admitted as much on his psych evaluation for his probation.

Nope, on his mental health self evaluation sheet he indicated he had homicidal thoughts, but not suicidal ones.

As discussed [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] a few years back:


*(Copy and paste the following links below, because hyperlinks to acolumbinesite will automatically take you to the home page).*


On the FIRST form he did not mention suicide:

acolumbinesite.com/reports/harris-violent1.jpg


On a second form his mother says that she feels he's suicidal:

acolumbinesite.com/reports/harris-violent2.jpg


On a THIRD form (question 50) he CIRCLES that he "had thoughts about not wanting to live (committing suicide)". He circled the option "D"; "more than twice":

acolumbinesite.com/reports/harris-violent3.jpg

tfsa47090 wrote:

On a second form his mother says that she feels he's suicidal:

Was that his mother? I've always assumed it was Mr. Harris who filled that out.

do the duration of both boys' suicidal thoughts align? Like, Dylan had just been pretty vocal about it in writing whereas Eric hardly talked about himself but the same thoughts are evident through those forms and his parents suspecting it?

Well either way I guess we know he admitted it then. Funny of the two the one whose family actually suspected it was Eric's and not Dylan.

sscc wrote:

I feel like everyone missed my post. Apparently, Eric's parents knew he was suicidal because he told the therapist after the van incident.

Don't worry , we/I didn't. What I meant was I would love more people to pitch in with their opinions. It just doesn't click with me that the only reason they ticked that was because he feesed to the psychiatrist. Just doesn't seem right with me. I think there's more than we know but that's just a feeling , no proof sadly.

I posted this because I think that Eric has suicidal thoughts and feelings and had them for quite some time.
I think there were times when he thought about and fantasized about killing himself that had nothing to do with NBK and was not connected.
I think Eric was a suicidal and very depressed person but this is often drowned out because of his intense anger problems.

PaintItBlack wrote:

I posted this because I think that Eric has suicidal thoughts and feelings and had them for quite some time.
I think there were times when he thought about and fantasized about killing himself that had nothing to do with NBK and was not connected.
I think Eric was a suicidal and very depressed person but this is often drowned out because of his intense anger problems.

This is pretty much how I see Eric too. Maybe I've been fooled but I really believe his depression and self-hate is at the heart of it, not an innate psychopathic desire to hurt others.

Ahhh ok guys sorry about that. I guess he didnt outright admit it.

tfsa47090 wrote:

bubbles wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

I've never denied that Eric had some urge to die. He even admitted as much on his psych evaluation for his probation.

Nope, on his mental health self evaluation sheet he indicated he had homicidal thoughts, but not suicidal ones.

As discussed [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] a few years back:


*(Copy and paste the following links below, because hyperlinks to acolumbinesite will automatically take you to the home page).*


On the FIRST form he did not mention suicide:

acolumbinesite.com/reports/harris-violent1.jpg


On a second form his mother says that she feels he's suicidal:

acolumbinesite.com/reports/harris-violent2.jpg


On a THIRD form (question 50) he CIRCLES that he "had thoughts about not wanting to live (committing suicide)". He circled the option "D"; "more than twice":

acolumbinesite.com/reports/harris-violent3.jpg

Ah interesting! Thanks.

Intrigues me how different his parent's form is to his. I wonder if his parents or the therapist ever delved into Eric's homicidal thoughts disclosure further? To me, that's such a particularly alarming admission. Surely it would have been addressed with him in some way? His form and his comments seem so honest. I wonder if ever alluded to his murderous revenge fantasies only to have them dismissed? Perhaps he wasn't planning on turning his homicidal thoughts into reality at that point?

bubbles wrote:

tfsa47090 wrote:

bubbles wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

I've never denied that Eric had some urge to die. He even admitted as much on his psych evaluation for his probation.

Nope, on his mental health self evaluation sheet he indicated he had homicidal thoughts, but not suicidal ones.

As discussed [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] a few years back:


*(Copy and paste the following links below, because hyperlinks to acolumbinesite will automatically take you to the home page).*


On the FIRST form he did not mention suicide:

acolumbinesite.com/reports/harris-violent1.jpg


On a second form his mother says that she feels he's suicidal:

acolumbinesite.com/reports/harris-violent2.jpg


On a THIRD form (question 50) he CIRCLES that he "had thoughts about not wanting to live (committing suicide)". He circled the option "D"; "more than twice":

acolumbinesite.com/reports/harris-violent3.jpg

Ah interesting! Thanks.

Intrigues me how different his parent's form is to his. I wonder if his parents or the therapist ever delved into Eric's homicidal thoughts disclosure further? To me, that's such a particularly alarming admission. Surely it would have been addressed with him in some way? His form and his comments seem so honest. I wonder if ever alluded to his murderous revenge fantasies only to have them dismissed? Perhaps he wasn't planning on turning his homicidal thoughts into reality at that point?

Obviously nothing with his therapy has been released but personally I feel like his therapist latched onto certain ideas and dismissed others. I think he did dismiss the homicidal rage Eric admitted to. And I think he latched onto his racing thoughts, and inside jokes that he talked about. They gave him a medication that helps racing thoughts and OCD but can exacerbate homicidal thoughts. If his therapist truly did believe he was homicidal I do not think he would have given him that specific medication. That would be like giving him the gun himself. Which in a way sort of happened.

Did Eric ever suffer any side effects of his medication? It could have been possible that the side effects contributed to his mental instability.

aquillina wrote:

Did Eric ever suffer any side effects of his medication? It could have been possible that the side effects contributed to his mental instability.

I think he did. And couple that with the fact that he would take the medication and then go off of it....it was an all around bad thing. He got anxious and had issues sleeping on zoloft so they moved to luvox.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Starting on page 49 here you can see some status checks for Eric and it talks about his medication making him restless and having a hard time concentrating. His doctor changes his medication after this. There are a few other things mentioned but not so much.

Lizpuff wrote:

aquillina wrote:

Did Eric ever suffer any side effects of his medication? It could have been possible that the side effects contributed to his mental instability.

I think he did.  And couple that with the fact that he would take the medication and then go off of it....it was an all around bad thing.  He got anxious and had issues sleeping on zoloft so they moved to luvox.

That right there is where it gets very dangerous. Mixing drugs together can be very dangerous and at times deadly, as we all have seen.

aquillina wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

aquillina wrote:

Did Eric ever suffer any side effects of his medication? It could have been possible that the side effects contributed to his mental instability.

I think he did.  And couple that with the fact that he would take the medication and then go off of it....it was an all around bad thing.  He got anxious and had issues sleeping on zoloft so they moved to luvox.

That right there is where it gets very dangerous. Mixing drugs together can be very dangerous and at times deadly, as we all have seen.

In the part I referred to in the diversion documents, they specify that the drugs were never actually mixed. He went off of one and then went onto another with time in between.

So what does this mean here? Eric did let out a cry for help, finally, to someone trustworthy about his own intentions of dying but it just got swept under the rug? Do we think that he openly ticked homicidal to seem more badass and destructive?

ultraviolencelv wrote:

So what does this mean here? Eric did let out a cry for help, finally, to someone trustworthy about his own intentions of dying but it just got swept under the rug? Do we think that he openly ticked homicidal to seem more badass and destructive?

Prob a ton will disagree with me but whatever...I am of the mindset that Eric wanted to be caught for quite a while. Either to stop him from the crime itself or maybe he liked the thrill of getting away with something. I think he ticked off homicidal because it was the truth and I think he didn't truly want to feel that way. I don't think Eric was born bad. I do think there were good parts in both boys personalities. I think Eric reached out a hand for help that was batted away and dismissed so he retreated back inside of his anger and continued their plan.

Lizpuff wrote:

Prob a ton will disagree with me but whatever...I am of the mindset that Eric wanted to be caught for quite a while. Either to stop him from the crime itself or maybe he liked the thrill of getting away with something. I think he ticked off homicidal because it was the truth and I think he didn't truly want to feel that way. I don't think Eric was born bad. I do think there were good parts in both boys personalities. I think Eric reached out a hand for help that was batted away and dismissed so he retreated back inside of his anger and continued their plan.

I feel the same way with what you're saying.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Prob a ton will disagree with me but whatever...I am of the mindset that Eric wanted to be caught for quite a while. Either to stop him from the crime itself or maybe he liked the thrill of getting away with something. I think he ticked off homicidal because it was the truth and I think he didn't truly want to feel that way. I don't think Eric was born bad. I do think there were good parts in both boys personalities. I think Eric reached out a hand for help that was batted away and dismissed so he retreated back inside of his anger and continued their plan.

I feel the same way with what you're saying.

To me there are just too many coincidences. Too many sloppy things. Maybe he didn't want to be caught and just loved the thrill but Somehow I don't think so. Can't quite put my finger on why but it just seems that way

Lizpuff wrote:

ultraviolencelv wrote:

So what does this mean here? Eric did let out a cry for help, finally, to someone trustworthy about his own intentions of dying but it just got swept under the rug? Do we think that he openly ticked homicidal to seem more badass and destructive?

Prob a ton will disagree with me but whatever...I am of the mindset that Eric wanted to be caught for quite a while.  Either to stop him from the crime itself or maybe he liked the thrill of getting away with something.  I think he ticked off homicidal because it was the truth and I think he didn't truly want to feel that way.  I don't think Eric was born bad.  I do think there were good parts in both boys personalities.  I think Eric reached out a hand for help that was batted away and dismissed so he retreated back inside of his anger and continued their plan.

I agree.
I think Eric was open and honest on the form because at that point he at least somewhat wanted help and was somewhat open to getting help.But then I think when he didn't feel better soon, he gave up, decided the whole thing was a crock and went back to his own ways of thinking, dealing and coping which of course was disastrous to him and others.He gave up on it too soon.

Then it's sad. Cause he wanted help. He tried. Nobody can say that he didn't put out signs cause he did. Was it his environment's fault? The people in his life then and there? Somehow, he felt let down. Nobody owes him popularity or girls or a ton of friends but I'll tell you what, it was help he needed.

How much of a difference would it have made even if they did receive the help they needed or if someone stepped out to offer them kindness? Still though I don't think it would have prevented NBK. Do you feel like this massacre was fated to happen or could it have been stopped?

Someone should have asked him, "why do you hate yourself" and, "what makes you happy". These questions aren't suppose to guarantee the massacre not happening but I'd like to know the answer for them and if Eric and Dylan were asked that, would it make their mind clearer, and whether it would help them know what they want and what they could have possibly changed for themselves.

Something interesting I found on the link posted.... Eric's creatinine levels were abnormally high.  I wonder why? High creatinine usually means impaired kidney function.  Or he could have been taking the supplemental type of creatinine because it helps build muscle and causes weight gain.  I can't help but wonder about this 
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Freezingmoon wrote:

Something interesting I found on the link posted.... Eric's creatinine levels were abnormally high. I wonder why? High creatinine usually means impaired kidney function. Or he could have been taking the supplemental type of creatinine because it helps build muscle and causes weight gain. I can't help but wonder about this

That's interesting. And I'm no doctor lol. Perhaps the latter?

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Freezingmoon wrote:

Something interesting I found on the link posted.... Eric's creatinine levels were abnormally high.  I wonder why? High creatinine usually means impaired kidney function.  Or he could have been taking the supplemental type of creatinine because it helps build muscle and causes weight gain.  I can't help but wonder about this

That's interesting. And I'm no doctor lol. Perhaps the latter?

That's what I was thinking. Certain drugs and meds can cause it too.   And of course the supplement that body builders use. Also, severe dehydration. It just struck me as being odd.  I'm guessing he was taking a supplement and took too much... That would be proof of how self conscious he felt about being so thin... Opposite of the jocks.

Freezingmoon wrote:

That's what I was thinking. Certain drugs and meds can cause it too. And of course the supplement that body builders use. Also, severe dehydration. It just struck me as being odd. I'm guessing he was taking a supplement and took too much... That would be proof of how self conscious he felt about being so thin... Opposite of the jocks.

Poor eric couldn't get a break from his physical health issues, from his chest thing to his knee/leg problem he had. Wouldn't surprise me if he thought to bulk up.

Lizpuff wrote:

Prob a ton will disagree with me but whatever...I am of the mindset that Eric wanted to be caught for quite a while. Either to stop him from the crime itself or maybe he liked the thrill of getting away with something. I think he ticked off homicidal because it was the truth and I think he didn't truly want to feel that way. I don't think Eric was born bad. I do think there were good parts in both boys personalities. I think Eric reached out a hand for help that was batted away and dismissed so he retreated back inside of his anger and continued their plan.

I absolutely agree with you. Pretty sure I mentioned this in another thread, but I believe Eric fluctuated between a sense of power/accomplishment for getting away with certain acts, and a sense of dejectedness from knowing that no one around him was invested enough to catch onto his plans, especially when he knew wasn't hiding things particularly well. I'd like to think that most people here, and anyone else who researched E&D lives would agree with Lizpuff's assessment.

This thread included, I've been coming across a lot of analysis on Eric's mental health recently, including a very thought out and insightful blog post that attempted to dissect his upbringing, mindset, and motivations. (pm me if anyone would like the link) As I'm reading all this, the "Eric was a psychopath" narrative gets more and more disturbing each time I hear it surface. It's become such a dismissive, catch-all phrase that completely glosses over the fact that Eric had an awareness of his issues and tried to reach out to professionals. It also implies that Eric was beyond help, which is a devastating point of view to cast onto a troubled child. I'd think it's more than likely Eric considered himself at one point or another to be "beyond help". But from a clinical standpoint, I don't think that was the case at all. The "psychopath-end-of-story" sentiment is so harmful for kids who have problems similar to Eric (and Dylan). Not only is it not a diagnosis, it perpetuates the illusion of the potential school shooter as a hardwired "monster", that there was little to be done. Underneath it all, it just enforces the sad fact that most of society has barely learned anything from Columbine beyond banning trench coats in schools.

Anyway, I digress..

aquilina wrote:

How much of a difference would it have made even if they did receive the help they needed or if someone stepped out to offer them kindness? Still though I don't think it would have prevented NBK. Do you feel like this massacre was fated to happen or could it have been stopped?

On Eric's end, with a different therapist or medication, I believe it definitely could have altered how invested he was in NBK. Dylan would be a harder nut to crack with either of these methods because he wasn't receptive to them. Eric was. I don't think it was necessarily just kindness that needed to be offered. Instead, someone needed to ask him the right questions. Someone needed to see the severity and depth of his issues and offer him the correct vent. Perhaps there was so much focus on his anger/control issues that his more closely-held sadness and lack of self-esteem wasn't as explored as it needed to be? I can only imagine that there was an inverse correlation between his continuing disillusionment with professionals/authority figures and his level of interest in making NBK a reality.

I think it's all made so clear in the excerpt we see transcribed from the tapes where Eric is alone in his car, reminiscing. When he mentions his desire to reconnect with old friends and begins to cry. I really think that moment speaks to a glimmer of regret, hesitation, or disappointment in one's self, in this point in time where he should be getting "pumped up" and "badass", his involuntary reaction is to weep and then immediately try to stop the recording. I can only imagine the reality of what he would be losing, and who he'd be affecting became very uncomfortably magnified near the end.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] -- That's a really interesting find, I'm also inclined to go with the latter out of those two options, though I'd think there's other explanations as well? I'm pretty sure we have an active, semi-active member on here who does work with a medical examiner, right? Would be interesting to get his/her input. (I looked back through some documents for the list of items seized from Eric's room, and there was no mention of supplements, though it could have been lumped in under the list item that just says "medication bottles". hmm...)

I'm also in the "Eric wanted help/possibly wanted to get caught" camp.

In the past several months that I've been on this forum and doing research here and there, I've come to the conclusion that deep down Eric was an overly sensitive person who really struggled with this aspect of his personality. I think image was very important to him, and the fact that he didn't look the way he wanted and felt a certain way about things that would encourage others view him as "soft" or "weak" or whatever, it probably made him feel disappointed with himself and contributed to his self esteem issues. I think most people have come to this conclusion. I believe that some of his anger was a result of this frustration, but I also feel that he conditioned himself to react in anger as opposed to crying or conveying weak emotions when he was upset about something. I think all the moving his family did when he was growing up contributed to him being viewed as "weird" by others, in the sense that It probably threw him off and caused him to have a hard time adjusting and making friends. He claimed himself that leaving his friends was one of the worst feelings in the world, so he had that looming over him as well. Based on all these things I'm pretty certain he harbored suicidal thoughts here and there, even before planning nbk.

I think he did want help but didn't want to just come out and say it. I think he gave subtle hints but wanted someone to be able to read him and acknowledge that he was in pain without him having to give too many details. Its possible that he was desperate for someone to see through the tough guy front he put up and realize what was actually going on in his head. I don't think he wanted to say it out of fear of admitting to and exposing that he had a softer, emotional side. One thing that still stands out to me was that stupid little BS online survey he did. Under the question what personality traits you admire in a significant other, he listed "compassion". The question isn't worded exactly like that, but I thought that was an interesting answer.

But realistically, I don't blame his friends or parents for not knowing. When you strongly portray yourself a certain way to people (to his friends it was the weapons enthusiast tough guy, to his parents it was the reliable/responsible kid with good grades), its not really fair to get angry at them for not seeing through the front.

Kiwik wrote:

I think he did want help but didn't want to just come out and say it. I think he gave subtle hints but wanted someone to be able to read him and acknowledge that he was in pain without him having to give too many details. Its possible that he was desperate for someone to see through the tough guy front he put up and realize what was actually going on in his head. I don't think he wanted to say it out of fear of admitting to and exposing that he had a softer, emotional side. One thing that still stands out to me was that stupid little BS online survey he did. Under the question what personality traits you admire in a significant other, he listed "compassion".

Thank you for this. I agree he gave very telling yet subtle hints.

I wonder whether he let these things out to Dylan. I mean if there had to be a person, could it have been Dylan? I really always wonder whether they had these intense conversations since they have decided to die together anyway. Maybe he may have told him all these things he really felt about life and himself, Dylan shared aswell and they decided that the world was useless and to go out with a bang.
Hence I brought up above had someone asked him the right questions would it change his perspective a little.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I feel like Eric was the kinds guy who had to have an outlet Somewhere. I don't think he could keep everything in forever. That might be why he strived to have deep conversations with people. And If there was anyone he could talk to it had to have been Dylan, at least towards the end anyway. The two of them spent a lot of time together by themselves, and I'm sure they had deep conversations about things like this - I don't think Dylan would have held Eric's attention of they didn't. I'm sure all their time spent together wasn't just 100% planning and I bet Eric let his guard down more than once with him.

Without a doubt Columbine was a very toxic environment, especially for Eric and Dylan with their mental and social instabilities and I am sure it played a huge factor in their downfalls. Bullying is a big problem no matter where you go bullying is everywhere, sad truth.
I also don't believe that Eric and Dylan are born bad, but after four straight years no doubt they were pushed over the edge and pretty much just snapped. Some of the parents even admitted that they were surprised it didn't happen sooner. Some even knew that this was bound to happen. I also read from Sue's book when they were going to the pound to pick up Dylan's car the owner admitted that he wanted the "tear to school apart brick by brick."

Kiwik wrote:

One thing that still stands out to me was that stupid little BS online survey he did. Under the question what personality traits you admire in a significant other, he listed "compassion". The question isn't worded exactly like that, but I thought that was an interesting answer.

Do you have a link to this? I don't think I've ever seen it.